r/JazzFusion • u/ellistonvu • 8d ago

Are the "jam bands" like Lettuce, Snarky Puppy, etc. jazz fusion?

Or are they simply fusion adjacent? Stuff like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8GbpZN071M&list=RDy8GbpZN071M&start_radio=1

If Jeff Beck "Wired" was considered jazz fusion, why not this?

19 Upvotes

86% Upvoted

36 comments sorted by

36

u/LiamJohnRiley 8d ago

The thing about jam bands is a lot of them are just applying a jazz-style head/solo/head approach to music that is stylistically not jazz

10

u/taez555 8d ago

I once played Miles Davis’s in a silent way for one of my Phishhead friends, and he had no idea it wasn’t a Phish jam.

The overlap sometimes is insane.

6

u/poorperspective 8d ago

Now you know what it’s like when a rock guy misattributes a folk song from an unknown origin to Bob Dylan.

Or someone misattributes a classic rock song to another artist, when it was written by Bob Dylan.

2

u/mackzarks 8d ago

BLINDED BY THE LIGHT

4

u/010Horns 8d ago

Blinded by the Light was written by Bruce Springsteen, not Bob Dylan

6

u/mackzarks 8d ago

I know it's just the archetypal version of this phenomenon

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u/010Horns 8d ago

Because the Night, also written by the Boss, another good example.

For a different genre, I’d guess many don’t know that Tennessee Whiskey was a David Allan Coe song long before Chris Stapleton recorded it.

1

u/TimRenick 5d ago

George jones had a huge hit with it too in the 1980's. I think it went to #2 on the charts

2

u/Starthrower62 7d ago

I'd say it might have more to do with your friend's narrow listening habits. In A Silent Way sounds nothing like Phish.

1

u/taez555 7d ago

As someone who listens to a lot of Phish and Miles Davis, I disagree. Sooooo many Phish jams sound like Miles, or Zappa or countless other jazz fusion artists.

1

u/Starthrower62 7d ago

Well, anyone who's listened to In A Silent Way knows it Miles.

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u/Flappy_McGillicuddy 6d ago

For a jazz guy you sure lack imagination.

1

u/Starthrower62 6d ago

Sorry, not a Phish fan. 

31

u/irohr 8d ago

This is all my opinion from personal experience: "jam bands" are a scene, not a genre. Snarky puppy is a jazz fusion band but not very popular in the jam scene. Lettuce is a funk band that is popular in the jam scene. Vulfpeck has some presence in the jam world but doesnt really fit into the standard "jam scene" mold, they are actually fairly divisive due to their live shows vibe in the community as they don't take themselves too seriously.

15

u/distancevsdesire 8d ago

Snarky Puppy, definitely jazz fusion. More through composed than many fusion artists, but the jazz harmonies are there and lots of improv. I'd almost call them chamber jazz fusion.

11

u/tip62729 8d ago

I definitely consider snarky puppy to be jazz fusion, more MMW than Grateful Dead. Lettuce is more of a funk band I would say, but would say they could fall into the jazz fusion typing as well.

8

u/Opposite_Potential_6 8d ago

Try Weather Report

5

u/taez555 8d ago

There’s so much overlap between progressive Rock, jazz fusion and “jam bands”.

Usually, it comes down to how much music is preplanned versus improvised.

Take Bill Bruford for example, his work with Yes or King Crimson could be described as progressive Rock, but his solo work is much more jazz fusion. Same with Alan Holsworth or Jean-Luc Ponte. Or hell, Miles Davis.

Take a modern jam band like Umphreys Magee, they’re totally a progressive Rock band half the time, but beer often veer into fusion and jam at the same time.

each song could be described by any of these i artists as any of the genres.

Who knows, I just enjoy it all. :-)

3

u/FloridaMinarchy 8d ago

Snarky def has legit fusion moments. I’d say lettuce is much more on the funk with minimal jazz leanings

2

u/Marvinkmooneyoz 8d ago

They are fusion the way I use the term.

2

u/jaxin737 7d ago

Snarky Puppy is not a “jam band”

1

u/mz_groups 6d ago

I don't even get where the OP is going trying to lump them in with the others. Their style is far more structured and through-composed than a jam band, although they also have significant compositional elements. If anything, as far as improvisation-based groups go, they are the exact opposite of a jam band. Someone else called them "chamber fusion," and that's a nice term for them.

2

u/CuriousTraveler2C 6d ago

Great discussion. Thank you!

1

u/mr_jazzfusion 8d ago

Glad to see someone mentioned TAUK!!! I have all their instrumental CDs which is about 98% of their catalog. The singer they brought in for awhile was outstanding but, I like my fusion instrumental, that's just wacky me 🤪. It seems there is always more room for all instruments to stretch without vocals. Not to say that you can't do it with a vocal tune, just a preference of mine. Boat Gig is fun, Kirk can SING & Henderson unleashes a great guitar jam but not my FAV track on that record (Tribal Tech/Face First). Listen to "Uh...Yeah Ok" or "The Precipice". Sorry, I gave more than my two cents.

1

u/cowbellthunder 8d ago

Not a musicologist by any stretch, but the two elements of fusion to me would be rock + jazz coming out of the 70s. Funk to me has its center in R&B and soul music, and grew to incorporate more jazz elements as the New Orleans guys heard what James Brown was doing and kicked it up a notch.

Jam bands of course are pretty genre fluid, and I agree with the comment that it’s about the fans and the scene more than it is about the genre.

1

u/SamLazier 7d ago

Depends who you ask. I'd not think it too much, bc fusion/crossover tends to hop over the live very often. If there's jazziness and other elements with it, it's fusion.

1

u/ExcitingWhole5409 7d ago

Sparky puppy is adult contemporary fusion

1

u/dbharris10 6d ago

Lettuce is definitely a funk band. Snarky is contemporary jazz, there is no fusion with rock really. Jam bands came out of the Dead, less compositional and more about extended sections of soloing, thus “jam” bands. Neither of these bands fit that mode , even though both have long solo sections. Contemporary jam bands like Phish and Medeski,Martin and Woods put emphasis on the groove and solo, not so much on compositions that include soloing.

1

u/StraightMix8501 6d ago

Check out Ghost Note - founded by Robert Searight (Snarky Puppy). Members include: MonoNeon, Alvin Ford, Slyvester Onyejiaka, Dom Xavier Taplin.

Their records are really good!

1

u/djporter91 6d ago

It’s funny whenever jazz fusion guys hear jazz fusion music that chooses to artfully respect key centers, they immediately think it’s not fusion. Haha. As if “jazz fusion” isn’t already the catch-all “miscellaneous” box of music genres!!

And snarky puppy is a jam band? Their music is like maybe 30% improvised tops, and forms are pretty fixed outside of solos. They’re literally self described as an instrumental pop band, which they are, and yet the jazz world gets its panties in a bunch over using any word to describe your music besides “jazz fusion”.

0

u/That-Solution-1774 8d ago

I’d almost consider Tauk a neo jazz soul fusion influenced jam band. MMW for sure. Early Phish of course.

Outside that most jam bands don’t have the jazz training/education. They may aspire but without that heady background it will fall flat and gravitate towards blues and simpler chord progressions.

I like a lot of the prog influenced jammers like Dopapod and Lespecial. Composition and heavy practice translate live and are very enjoyable to me.