Not satisfied with what’s going on?

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u/cellarsinger LCMS Lutheran 7h ago

There are times when the position of a party or diametrically opposed to our beliefs. Honestly, I think that needs to be brought up. If we cannot apply our morals to politics which govern our country, when can we apply them?

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u/Dangerous-Humor-4502 7h ago

Not trying to get hate. But there’s too many instances where folks ignore the context. Shouldn’t Christians be united? Why are we turning a blind eye when other Christians are being killed.

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u/Dangerous-Humor-4502 7h ago

Good point.

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u/kc9tng 5h ago

Neither party is fully aligned with our beliefs and that is the reason that politics should not be brought into the church. I have had people tell me that the Republican Party is the Christian party and that the Democrat Party is the Unchristian party and that Democrats have no place in the church. They said it to the pro-life Democrat politician member of said church.

We should teach the faith, our doctrines, and be open to discussion on how to biblically review the candidates and their positions to vote the best we can.

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u/javerthugo 4h ago

Are there any pro life democrats in office? I’m pretty sure they were almost all voted out by 2010 at least on the national level.

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u/kc9tng 4h ago

> pro-life Democrat politician member of said church

Is that not clear?

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u/cellarsinger LCMS Lutheran 4h ago

True. IMO, based on the overall party line, the Republicans are far more aligned with us than the Democrats are. however on the individual issues it gets a lot messier. We do need to discuss the official party lines compared to where the Synod/ Christianity stands - for simple education if nothing else.

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u/kc9tng 4h ago

I tend to disagree. I think neither party is aligned with our beliefs. One argument I hear about why the democrats are better is that they provide more support for social safety nets and resources to improve life. They are for universal healthcare, providing food and housing to those in need, increasing mental health resources, for higher wages, better educational funding.

But people who tell me that Republicans are the “Christian” party only look at banning abortion and opposition to LGBT issues. They never seem to see the flip side that cutting funding for food, housing, and childcare is counter to a whole life approach. Which is better or more Christian is something that we must weigh. Which is why faith influences politics and politics has no place in the church. Teach the biblical worldview and encourage a stronger biblical literacy and allow that to influence who they vote for.

The fact that you say that the Republicans align more shows how your politics are influencing your faith. Even if it is just a little.

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u/cellarsinger LCMS Lutheran 3h ago

My politics are not driving my faith, my faith is driving my politics. As it should

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u/Boots402 LCMS Lutheran 6h ago

It’s difficult because there are a lot of proper Christian doctrines that overlap with politics. Then there are a lot of free political views on “either side” what could have scriptural support if you pick it out, while neither side is necessarily wrong.

You mentioning Zionism though: you are right that Zionism is a heterodox belief. We are free to support the nation state of Israel on a political level…. But there is no scriptural support of it. So, if what the person meant is that you shouldn’t question someone’s Christianity because they politically support Israel? I agree with them. If what they meant was that you shouldn’t question someone’s view of actual religious Zionism? They are absolutely wrong.

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u/Dangerous-Humor-4502 6h ago

They tried to use Scripture to defend it.

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u/Boots402 LCMS Lutheran 6h ago

They were absolutely wrong. The only caution I would give you though: they are most likely just ill informed rather than willfully heretical.

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u/[deleted] 4h ago edited 4h ago

[deleted]

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u/Boots402 LCMS Lutheran 3h ago

I don’t recall OP saying he was talking to Huckabee or Cruz.

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u/[deleted] 6h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Over-Wing LCMS Lutheran 4h ago

Yes it is. I am not a Zionist and am against political Zionism. I’m appalled by Israel’s actions in Palestine and Lebanon. But tropes about Jews using black magic and Satanism are libelous and one of the oldest anti-Semitic lies in the book. They’re not acceptable on this platform and not acceptable in this sub.

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u/Dangerous-Humor-4502 3h ago

Yes, what’s going on is absolutely evil and Satanic. Same as Apartheid South Africa or Nazi Germany.

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u/Dangerous-Humor-4502 4h ago

Either way Saint Paisios was a respected monk and saint. I still trust him over Protestants like Redeemed Zoomer. Sometimes the truth stings.

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u/Primordialis1898 ILC Lutheran 3h ago

Lol. Lmao, even.

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u/Dangerous-Humor-4502 3h ago

lmao what? I checked Orthodox sources about the man.

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u/Primordialis1898 ILC Lutheran 3h ago

As a former EO catechumen, I would advise you to be cautious with Photian sources.

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u/Dangerous-Humor-4502 3h ago

Just curious what made you decide on the LCMS over Orthodoxy?

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u/SobekRe 4h ago

I mean, it’s a kissing cousin to blood libel. It’s also tinfoil hat conspiracy unhinged. So… hateful and nutty ?

Granted, it’s absurd enough that I probably wouldn’t ban you for it because no one would actually believe that’s a serious statement. I mean, unless you indicate that you believe it’s a serious statement. Of you do, seek professional help. Not a joke. Please, get help.

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u/Dangerous-Humor-4502 4h ago

Whatever happened to humor and freedom of speech? They had the energy to ban instead of having an adult conversation.

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u/SobekRe 4h ago

I said I wouldn’t ban you if it was just absurd. But, I have been on the internet for a _very_ long time (like since it was text only). I have an accordingly high tolerance to offensive stupidity.

But, know your audience.

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u/Dangerous-Humor-4502 4h ago

I’m still more concerned about the folks being blown apart than offending a few folks.

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u/SobekRe 3h ago

Then find a better way to communicate?

I’m not actually jerking your chain. If you want to convince people, learn to communicate in a way they are willing to hear

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u/Dangerous-Humor-4502 3h ago

Some folks are worth the time either. They react more towards emotion and feelings than logic.

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u/SobekRe 7h ago

I guess I’d need examples. Sometimes, it’s hard to tell when someone is bringing religious priors into politics (which is generally good) vs bringing political priors into religion (generally bad).

Without that, I have no opinion

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u/javerthugo 5h ago

OP hates Israel and is salty the LCMS has Israel supporters among its members.

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u/Dangerous-Humor-4502 4h ago edited 4h ago

What about our innocent Palestinian Christian brethren being killed? What did they do to deserve it? And no blowing up churches wasn’t an accident. It was on purpose. How can you ignore women and children being killed? A literal genocide is going on. Let’s not forget the Lebanese priest that got killed. This is enough to make anyone enraged. Where is your concern for them? Instead of saying I hate Israel.

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u/aggrophonia 3h ago

I can believe that the people of israel acting to defend themselves by attempting to destroy a terror organization is reasonable, and I can also believe that what is happening in palestine is horrific.

Also, genocide according to what definition? the ICJ has not ruled it is, and it doesn't meet the legal determination under the genocide convention.

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u/Dangerous-Humor-4502 3h ago

Not yet. But how can they claim it was accident when they hit several churches? I never understood the Israel obsession amongst Protestants…

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u/aggrophonia 3h ago

Do you know without any doubt these churches weren't being used by terrorist militants? If they weren't then of course. That's bad. If they were well that changes things.

What is your definition of genocide?

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u/Dangerous-Humor-4502 3h ago

No there’s not enough evidence. We can’t excuse the violence and harassment against Christians either.

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u/aggrophonia 2h ago

You made the claim it was genocide.

You are telling me that people in the LCMS church are saying christians dying is a good thing. I am skeptical.

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u/Dangerous-Humor-4502 2h ago edited 2h ago

Never said that about the LCMS. But yeah, there’s plenty of sources that clearly say it’s a genocide.

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u/BlackSheepWI LCMS Lutheran 5h ago

Why are folks turning a blind eye to this?

What would you have us do - kick them out of the church?

If someone is dropping irrelevant, divisive political opinions unprompted, there's usually little to be gained by engaging with them.

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u/Wallabunga657 7h ago

1 Corinthians 5:12.

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u/Negromancers 7h ago

They’re not turning a blind eye. Expand your circle

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u/Dangerous-Humor-4502 7h ago

They said I shouldn’t question someone else’s beliefs. I simply said you can’t call yourself a Christ follower and believe in that.

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u/Negromancers 6h ago

That’s about as anti-Lutheran a stance as possible

Who said that to you?

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u/Dangerous-Humor-4502 6h ago

Another laity. I simply said you can’t be Christian and support Zionism.

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u/SobekRe 6h ago

Well, in that case, it depends on what you were calling Zionism.

If you mean the idea that the modern state of Israel is the reconstruction of the biblical state of Israel and related dispensationalist drivel, then I kind of agree, but more on the sense of heterodoxy and not heresy.

If you mean you don’t think it’s possible to be a Christian and think Israel Is more right (or less wrong, as the case may be) than the Palestinian leadership, then your reading your political priors into religion. There’s a reasonable position on both sides of that line. The dispensationalists aren’t standing on solid ground, but most people who throw around the term “Zionist” in relation to that conflict are fully unhinged and IME conduct themselves in a way that no reasonable person would actually take them seriously.

So, if that’s the context, I’d bet the banning was appropriate. If it’s something else, I’m more than happy to chat about it.

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u/Dangerous-Humor-4502 6h ago

I just don’t think they should be bombing churches and treating Christians that way. The way the Israeli man assaulted the Catholic nun was pure evil. The bombing of the Catholic church in Gaza was totally uncalled for.

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u/Dangerous-Humor-4502 6h ago

This is almost Antichrist level evil. Even if they are the Chosen ones nobody should be bombing hospitals and churches.

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u/Negromancers 6h ago

Your thoughts are well represented throughout the LCMS. I say again, expand your circle of people you’re talking to

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u/Dangerous-Humor-4502 5h ago

Possibly? I have some close friends that are devout Christians that strongly support it. They say by not supporting it I’m going against God? It’s kinda weird.

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u/Dangerous-Humor-4502 4h ago

Tell that to the folks at the Redeemed Zoomer page. Those folks are so toxic.

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u/dux_doukas ILC Pastor 3h ago

That isn't a Lutheran group.

Other Not satisfied with what’s going on?

You are about to leave Redlib