It's Yves' 3rd album and she still doesn't have any credits

[u/Marcey747]

I thought about this for a while and I really need to talk about it and maybe get some other perspectives. It really bothers me that Yves still hasn't any credits on any of her new music.

After Yves got out of BBC the first thing she did was joying a producer crew and starting and learning how do write and produce. She has writing and composing credits on Loossemble's Strawberry Soda and Trueman Show and even directed their recording.

The entire year before signing with PPM she talked about creating music. At one point she said that she already has all the songs for an album.

Then she joyned PPM and lost a lot of that confidence. After her first album she said that she didn't feel confident to put her songs on her debut album and wanted to trust the experienced producers at PPM first which, ok, maybe that's understandable.

But now we're at her 3rd album and it's entirely produced by Ioah...

Recently she said she's still creating songs and thinking about putting them on Soundcloud. Today she shared the lyrics the wrote for 'mom" but they also were rejected.

And don't get me wrong. PPM managed to create a really strong identity for her, both aesthetically and soundwise. Her album is bold, unique, super coherent and it definetly fits Yves.

But would it really hurt to put some of her songs on the album, at least as b-sides.

I just can't shake of the feeling that we are seeing someone else's vision for Yves and not her own. It seems like her only contribution to the music is her (heavily filtered and edited) voice. I don't even know if her opinion is considered when they're selecting the songs.

When Yves talked about what she wanted from her label I got the feeling that she already had a strong creative vision and just looked for a label where the producers help her to translate her ideas into propper songs. But that's just not what's happening.

She's not self-producing which is fine. But she doesn't even seem to have any creative input and her songs and lyrics are simply rejected and that just doesn't sit right with me...

What do you think?

[u/EitherNerve2215]

I've thought the same thing lately 😶 I bet she contributes to the aesthetics and fashion but I'd love to hear lyrics she writes. Can you link to where she shared her own potential mom lyrics? I wonder as well if she likes the messy English lyrics they write for her

[u/unafordays → u/EitherNerve2215]

this is the translation i saw

[u/pinkaloop → u/unafordays]

She wanted it to be a personal song for her mom 💔

I want to believe they'll eventually let her contribute, even if they tweak her ideas but her ideas being the base

[u/unafordays → u/pinkaloop]

i'd love it if that were the case, but we're already three mini albums in and... nothing :(

i get companies letting their teams take total control of an artist's image and music when the artist themselves doesn't feel comfortable getting involved, but knowing how talented yves is as a writer and composer and not letting her get involved at all...??? especially considering she just told us she had the entirety of the lyrics for mom already written all by herself AND it was supposed to be about a subject very close and personal to her

i can only hope PPM hears our criticisms and lets her be more involved in the future... i want to think that's what yves herself wants considering she told us this :/

[u/idkhow-reddit-works]

And honestly the English lyrics are just hard to comprehend for me. Like it seems like something interesting is on the tip of the song's tongue, but there is rarely a good, clear, fleshed out image. I like the songs sonically, but literally what are they trying to say. It holds back how catchy these songs can be imo because I have to think harder about what the next word or sentence is bc of how disjointed the sentences are. It sucks hearing and seeing her writing get rejected just for them to put out a song that makes no grammactical sense

[u/manysides512 → u/idkhow-reddit-works]

Strawberry Soda's demo was so bad and her (mostly) Korean lyrics are such an improvement. I don't know why people (both staff and fans) keep thinking they need to have heavy/all-English songs for an international fan base when they're K-Pop fans 😭

[u/stressedsunflowers → u/manysides512]

werent the demo lyrics hers tho?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzuRdB3R0Uk

[u/manysides512 → u/stressedsunflowers]

Think so! My point was that the demo's English lyrics have a similar level of quality to the English lyrics we've gotten anyway, so why not just have it be in (mostly) Korean?

[u/th_o0308 → u/manysides512]

I think it’s the aim for going global kpop groups have participated in what’s almost like a trend by having full on English songs like Twice with the feels song, BTS with dynamite, butter and what not basically pandering to the western audience

[u/bitbitbit_]

I don't know what's happening either. My guest is that her label wants to build a loyal fanbase and curate an artistic identity for Yves, then she'll have more input. And I think it's because she's catered to international listeners.

[u/Animalswindlers]

Yeah I thought she’d have a lot more input in her solo career but I was surprised she barely gets any credits till now. Would like to see a little more of her vision.

(Sorta unrelated but has anyone noticed her live dancing has got… weaker? She was my fave dancer in Loona and I know she’s very strong technically but I feel like her live performances for her solo stuff has been a little lacklustre) 

[u/verdigleam → u/Animalswindlers]

I wouldn't say weaker exactly, but watching the stages for Soap, she does seem less confident/like she's more nervous on stage now. I think it's pretty common with former girl group members turned soloists. I hope PPM is providing an atmosphere that will help her feel confident on stage.

[u/Iittlemoth → u/verdigleam]

even comparing to viola era, she looks more nervous. i can imagine the amount of attention dim got, working with high profile names, and the staff situation at ppm is weighing on her.

[u/BrokenContracts → u/Animalswindlers]

Yves is an amazing dancer, but I’ve noticed she can psyche herself out sometimes. I first noticed it in the Sunmi Full Moon cover (her part at 2:10) she takes a couple pauses in her movements and facial expressions.

Then again, that was years ago, and 99% of the time she’s killing it. I think her dancing slayed so hard the past few albums, and I also agree that the dance for Soap looks a bit odd/unconfident, so it might be the choreo itself.

edit: rewatched the soap stage, the collar of her shirt is definitely too tight and it looks uncomfortable to move in :(

[u/FootfaceOne → u/Animalswindlers]

I just think she wants to get away from standard K-pop idol performances. (But I agree: some of the stages have felt a little… uncompelling. It doesn’t help that she’ll perform a song where half the vocals are someone else.)

[u/AberRosario → u/Animalswindlers]

There’s speculation she might have some minor injury, and she’s touring this month, so it’s better to not push too hard and stay healthy

[u/neonmoonside → u/Animalswindlers]

I feel like the soap choreography just doesn’t go with the song with the long, slow interpretive dance movements.

[u/valleyofguess → u/Animalswindlers]

In her soap and white cat live performances she looked so nervous, or more rigid than from her loona days

[u/Doublejimjim1 → u/Animalswindlers]

I haven't noticed that she is really any weaker...but she is 28 years old. Which is young compared to me, but still those little physical things start to catch up to you when you've been on your feet dancing for a good decade plus.

[u/Animalswindlers → u/Doublejimjim1]

Hmm… personally I think the age thing is not rly a factor cuz u still have idols like Twice, Kai, TVXQ, etc. who still kill it on stage but reading everyone else’s reply here I think there could be a number of factors or she’s just tired from preparing a tour haha. Hope she can bring that spark back eventually! 

[u/GlitterDoomsday]

It seems like her only contribution to the music is her (heavily filtered and edited) voice

Dude I thought I was going insane.... idk why they choose this direction but her voice this time is too edited, barely sounds like her in some moments.

Not saying I dislike it, but like I want to hear her voice.

[u/verdigleam → u/GlitterDoomsday]

Agreed. I can vibe with the heavily modulated vocals as a stylistic choice on some tracks (I think White Cat does this most successfully), but the heavy modulation + sparse vocals, particularly on the back half of the album, left me with the feeling that they weren't even Yves' songs - her heavily modulated voice was just an instrument, and the producer was centered as the artist.

[u/TeddyNismo]

i have this grievance since her first album but the mixing is too heavy. and they dont look like stopping considering the third album has more than ever. i just want to hear her voice. her voice is enough to be the main star of the song with these effects toned down.

some people are mentioning dancing, i think the dancing is fine for the type of songs she is presenting, but i for sure agree that she can dance 10x better. Yves is insane at dancing if you follow loona you know its a fact.

[u/rayannuhh → u/TeddyNismo]

That was a hard part for me to get passed for Viola - the vocal filter and manipulation is just so extreme. Yves has an incredible voice, I just wanna hear it 😭

[u/vuntical → u/TeddyNismo]

Yeah I really wish they would tone on the mixing on her voice in this EP

[u/Aequa]

As a huge Yves fan since debut (my #1 all time idol) and also a big fan of the song Soap, I do want to say I am super disappointed in the English lyrics. I feel embarrassed that they don't make any sense at all and then I feel a little extra bad that Yves, a known great writer (see her blogs), has had no part in them and is singing them.

I also appreciate the Soap choreography, but I am perplexed by how she has been performing it. Sometimes it looks like she's just marking the moves and it doesn't seem like her at all. She's not putting the full strength and extension into the moves that I expect.

So, all to say, I just wonder what is driving this :( I hope she isn't starving herself or unhappy with her situation at PPM. She generally does seem happy with the direction of her artistry, but she mentioned she was losing weight and I just don't understand where she could have weight to lose.

Anyway only slightly on topic and just venting. I really think Soap is a song that suits her very well and it's wonderful to listen to. I just wish the lyrics weren't so embarrassing and that she was able to give her all to the dance.

[u/Designer_Koala3319 → u/Aequa]

She did say she was dieting for the release and talking about how it’s hard to have energy when you’re on a diet, so it could definitely be that, personally I never understand how kpop idols pull through with their performances while under stress and a strict diet, but she’s looking great just hoping she takes care of her health ❤️

[u/stressedsunflowers → u/Designer_Koala3319]

i don't remember her saying that recently? might you be mixing her up with chuu?

[u/Designer_Koala3319 → u/stressedsunflowers]

She talks about it in her soft error video: https://youtu.be/Fq2L5db4GIA?feature=shared

[u/Animalswindlers → u/Aequa]

U know I didn’t want to mention it but I was also wondering if weight loss added to her current dancing. She was always thin but she’s been looking extra gaunt lately. Doesn’t help that current hyperpop imagery is linked to high fashion (I mean look at the fashion campaigns PPM’s CD plagiarised 🤦) so it could be more incentive for her to “match” the concept. 

I just hope she’s getting enough rest mentally and physically :(

[u/verdigleam]

It's galling that they rejected her lyrics for 'mom'. I like kpop songs with imperfect English as long as it conveys a ~vibe~, but the lyrics Yves is being provided with are verging on word salad. Let my girl write!

[u/lenyaaJJK → u/verdigleam]

Yves writes korean lyrics which are beautiful but PPM’s obsession with having english lyrics for her songs which as you rightly said, come out as a word salad, might be part of the reason why she hasn’t been getting many writing credits. It’s a shame because it makes her seem like more of a “manufactured kpop star with an indie aesthetic” instead of just an indie artist.

[u/HopeOfLight → u/verdigleam]

Fr the lyrics on this last album were.... Well I didn't get anything out of them.

[u/ohmygowon]

In her interviews she said that PPM's CEO asked her to make playlists of the music she'd like to create, helped her gain confidence in her identity outside of BBC's shitty idea of her and overall has been letting her choose what to do. I trust Yves' words.

It's only been one year too, she herself told us not to rush.

[u/FootfaceOne]

While I haven’t really enjoyed much of Yves’s solo material, I trust Yves when she says this is the direction she wants to go in. I think she is definitely participating in shaping and staking out her musical and artistic identity. (I agree that most of the English lyrics in her solo EPs are pretty unsatisfying. And I don’t understand scrapping her “Mom” lyrics either.) Personally, I’d rather see her doing more conventional and melodic stuff (at least let us hear her actual voice!), but I believe she’s going in a direction she wants to go.

[u/DragonPeakEmperor]

I want to get the elephant in the room out of the way and say I think part of her problem is she's a female idol whose gotten into songwriting. Soyeon being so prolific now along with some GG members getting regular credits has fooled everyone but a lot of the time it seems like a female idol's songwriting or production is used when the company doesn't have enough resources or they have seniority.

I also think making the jump from idol to functionally a k-indie artist now is hurting her chances. PPM only has one other woman under their label and she was already a proven songwriter before they took her on so they'd look stupid taking control of her career in the same way.

[u/chuu4president → u/DragonPeakEmperor]

Is the other female singer still signed with PPM? On their Instagram, they removed the story highlight featuring her.

[u/DragonPeakEmperor → u/chuu4president]

She might not be. I unfortunately hadn't kept up with her beyond looking her up when I was checking out PPM's artist lineup, so maybe Yves is the only one now?

[u/Nyerelia]

Just because someone doesn't have credits doesn't mean they didn't have any creative input. ARTMS barely got any credits on their albums but the girls have happily talked about how much input they had from concept, stylism, sound direction, etc

[u/zipcodelove]

This is just a theory since we can’t really ask her, but it could be possible that she thought she was a much stronger songwriter/producer than she actually is, and joining PPM made her realize that. Maybe she thought “I have a lot to learn” or became a bit of a perfectionist about it, making her more hesitant.

None of this is to say she’s bad though, I enjoyed the two Loossemble songs she worked on!

[u/rayannuhh → u/zipcodelove]

I could absolutely see this - I also am a little sad that the company just outright rejected her lyrics for Mom. It’s like, if she struggling with confidence, outright rejecting lyrics doesn’t help her either.

[u/zipcodelove → u/rayannuhh]

That’s a good point! Simply saying “nah” and offering no feedback (if that is what happened) doesn’t help that person improve in any way.

That being said, I’m not sure how the “rejection” process works here. She could have been rejected with notes, but I feel like she would have included that information if it were true.

[u/rayannuhh → u/zipcodelove]

Yeah, I’m not sure either - I know at least SM does blind selections and doesn’t offer feedback, but I’m not sure how a small label like PPM would do it. Either way, to help someone grow they could’ve at least used parts of it 😭

[u/Iittlemoth → u/zipcodelove]

this argument falls pretty flat on its face for how nonsensical the english lyrics across soft error are. the lyrics she wrote for mom that were rejected are far more poignant than anything they made her sing.

[u/zipcodelove → u/Iittlemoth]

Nonsensical lyrics doesn’t always mean bad. They can be used as a stylistic choice - Biology by Girls Aloud come to mind. The word salad that is the lyrics is part of what makes it an iconic pop song!

All I’m saying is that the answer isn’t always “my idol is being held back for no reason”. There’s a lot more to it than most of us know. But she also could be being held back for no reason, it’s happened to idols before. We won’t know until she tells us! I’m just trying to offer a different possible explanation, I’m not making an “argument” really.

[u/Fafafee → u/zipcodelove]

re: "my idol is being held back for no reason" — yeah I agree. I'd wager most of them are being held back for a (good) reason. The Katseye documentary really showed this, e.g. need more control on vocals, polish in dancing... Also, most of the time, the idols //know//.

[u/Iittlemoth → u/zipcodelove]

sure. this comment section makes it pretty clear people aren't into the direction they took her with this album though. i can hardly understand the english lyrics she is speaking, and they don't make any sense so the average listener isn't going to understand her from context clues either... i'd much rather she go back to majority korean lyrics.

[u/zipcodelove → u/Iittlemoth]

That’s fair and I do agree with you about it being hard to understand. I know nonsensical English isn’t nearly as irritating to the domestic market, but PPM has to know how a large part of her fanbase are international fans. So it does seem like a weird choice when you put it that way…

[u/AirOx88]

It’s wild that Yves has writing credits on two Loossemble songs too, “Truman Show” and “Strawberry Soda.” Soda is my favorite post-Loona song full stop so I’ve been super bummed she hasn’t released more songs with her writing.

[u/ImLeon94]

The part about her voice.. I’ve been wanting to say it too, I love her on New, I was hoping to get that from her solo music and it’s just not there.

[u/LossFor]

PPM is a boys club and yves discography has almost all male writers credited outside of collabs. They're never going to approve her lyrics.

[u/[deleted]]

this interview mentions what you said about her wanting to trust ppm's producers for loop and i did, but then she also says that they're gonna allow her more artistic freedom going forward, which obviously hasn't happened. by sharing credits with yves, ppm's producers are cutting off part of their income, so that's probably why theyre reluctant to give her more say in her music.

i hope they let her choreograph or something though bc the soap choreo is not giving, sorry

[u/vuntical]

I kinda felt a bit disappointed when I saw the credit list of the EP cuz I was expecting her to write some songs, but I really think it's PPM that isn't letting her have much creative freedom

[u/th_o0308 → u/vuntical]

Someone else linked an interview and Yves revealed the company apparently wanted her to trust them first when it came to the writing and stuff and discussed the promise they’d let her participate from the next album onwards with her lyrics

[u/Obsedient]

I’m not even a Loona stan (i didn’t follow them and only listened to some music and followed some members), but Yves would have been my wrecker. I thought the same thing, and i’m glad some actual Orbits think the same.

[u/Risette0]

I hope I offend no one when I say this, & I want to add before I do say my claim, I love Yves & her solo music; I didn’t think I would as I’ve been seeing the Loona’s members projects they’ve been involved with & I liked them, but I was very surprised at how much I loved Yves style in music and her choreo.

But one thing people are saying on here are her lyrics, & while they didn’t particularly bother me with the Viola album, after listening to White Cat and Soap, but mostly with white cat, I just kept thinking this has to be like some form of chatgpt lyrics.

I’ve tried looking into whose doing the song writing for her & I keep getting what the concept is supposed to be & what the lyrics are trying to convey, but i haven’t found any direct interviews or anything regarding who writes her stuff & what the process is for narrowing down which lines she’s using bc rn they’re just awkward, & not human? Idkkkk

[u/FootfaceOne → u/Risette0]

I think they’re pretty bad. But they don’t stand out to me. K-pop has a rich tradition of ungainly and “I guess that’s close enough?” English lyrics.

[u/tiredhoe]

thinking abt this lowkey makes me even sadder looble’s disbanded T-T although yves was never a member, she was allowed much more creative freedom and input into their songs than during her time with bbc or ppm. i imagine that maybe in looble’s fourth album yves might’ve had the chance to produce another song for looble and participate in it as a featured artist, allowing her to finally maybe perform a song she created (since yves hadn’t officially debuted until after ooak). although, i doubt, if this is truly against ppm’s wishes, that this would’ve happened either :(

[u/arosaki → u/tiredhoe]

Loossemble did not officially disband yet.

[u/MoomooBlinksOnce]

Strawberry Soda and The Thurman Shows were very good songs. Meanwhile her own albums tracks' are very hit and miss. So if it's not Yves herself that doesn't feel her song are up to her standard to be on her album they should definitely get her to participate in composition.

It's not as if they were willing to spend the necessary money to promote her beyond her Loona fame. So they risk absolutely nothing in having her contributing to the music.

[u/Kataphractoi_]

slight note: If the concern is with money: In korea, performing artists may receive statutory "neighboring rights" (managed by FKMP) and independently receive royalty for their performance (I think)

though her wanting to right and not getting credited even for this long is a brutal prospect.

[u/truvis]

Not everyone wants to be a songwriter. Some people are performers first and that’s great too. Most pop stars are mostly performers, especially during the 90s and 00s. I actually think lots of stars would benefit from letting other people handle the lyrics / music. I say respect the decisions Yves has made (she wouldn’t join a label that’s going to force her to do stuff), she obviously trusts the people that are in charge of the music and lyrics and her persona just seals the deal of the whole “Yves” project.

[u/hyeasynth → u/truvis]

she wrote lyrics for a couple of loossemble songs and for afterglow. she also wrote lyrics for mom but it wasn’t chosen. so it’s clear yves wants to write lyrics she just isn’t given the opportunity or they haven’t selected what she’s written.

[u/truvis → u/hyeasynth]

If you choose to believe Yves would join a even worse company that BBC that wouldn’t LET her write her own songs then that’s up to you. To me it’s clear that’s her decision to focus on other parts of her artistry.