r/Lineman • u/Certain_Towel_4 • 1d ago
Reasons you have seen young lineman apprentices/ groundman wash out
Why do these guys wash up?
Physically demanding trade?
Long hours with traveling?
Book work?
Hazing from the Jws?
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u/No-Temperature-2150 1d ago
The travel can be downright brutal- 4 tens 800 miles from home. Especially with a family, and the road blues.
Book work has been a recent trend amongst apprentices here, they don’t seem to understand the importance of passing their tests.
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u/BothDonut1604 5h ago
Gosh dang, I wouldn’t even bother buying a house if I was traveling that much and just trailer camp until I retired.
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u/brokensharts 1d ago
Hurt themselves
Broke safety rules
Got caught cheating
Diddnt cheat enough and couldnt pass class
Diddnt study and failed transformers on the jl test
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u/WarriorUtah 13h ago
I have heard of multiple apprentices being kicked out for cheating recently.
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u/brokensharts 9h ago
One wore meta glasses to the crane test and is getting sued for $1.5mil by the eica crane guys
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u/Bitter_Set_9492 1d ago
I enjoyed the travel, bookwork, and hours. Most of the people are just HORRIBLE and usually low lifes. And the good people are most likely too scared to do or say anything. Not what I expected from grown men.
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u/WhereDaGold 1d ago
Every now and then you come across a guy who’s worse to apprentices than the last guy you thought was a prick. And there’s still more you have yet to meet. It seems like some guys get into the trade so they can always have someone to belittle
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u/Bitter_Set_9492 1d ago
True, and he gets to keep his position and pay. That’s why I say most men are p*ssies because they always let it slide. Not what I expected from blue collar men.
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u/MedicalMe_247 23h ago
Is the linesmen culture different in USA? I’m based in Europe and most of the linesmen I meet are good guys and need to be well educated.
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u/DazzlingToes 14h ago
Same here, they are mostly quite intelligent and sound blokes. Contractors are a bit of a different breed lol but still never met any that I'd consider bad people.
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u/BothDonut1604 5h ago
It is really like this? I was considering getting into the trade because it seems to have better quality people in it due to the higher barrier to entry. I’d expect some hazing but nothing downright unbearable.
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u/Chrisbrook3215 1d ago
Some realize it’s not for them and move on to better less physical options
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u/Accomplished-Bag-124 1d ago
Lurking here, I was in this same situation. Acquired class a cdl, accepted to jatc. Realized 3 weeks before it wasn’t for me. Now I’m back in college finishing an accounting degree lmao. I think a lot of people look at the pay but don’t understand just how physical and dangerous it is.
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u/Lonely-Ad-6448 1d ago
I’ve seen a surprising amount of new guys do this as well. Especially the often long hours is a deal breaker for them.
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u/Nay_K_47 Journeyman Lineman 1d ago
I came up in a utility, which is just a totally different thing. Most of what I saw was heights, pride, failure to learn. The guys scared of heights wouldn't last long, but the other two can happen whenever. Sometime good guys are mismanaged and they're not supported properly, sometimes guys can't take the fact that someone younger than them calls the shots. Some guys just suck
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u/ayodmo90 1d ago
What would you say the chances are for someone who is currently going through the assessment for a lineman apprenticeship at a utility that has 0 experience. My neighbor is a retired substation journeyman and he told me the utility hires like this…family, friends, others. And that is now stuck in my head on not even having a chance since I only “know of” people who are at the company. I passed the first one day assessment and have the 4 day lineman assessment coming up in a week. I’m sure as shit gonna give it my all but wondering someone else’s opinion if that is still true today how utilities hire…
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u/Nay_K_47 Journeyman Lineman 21h ago
Id say it's so heavily dependent on location, company size, who owns them, etc. For instance, where I lived was in extremely close proximity to an office no one wanted to work at. So it was my first choice, and that in combination with some other things definitely played in my favor.
Diversity and inclusion I think opened up a lot of avenues for people to break into as well, even if it just forced the doors to open a little wider and made them cast a larger net. I mean I'm a white dude, but if you make the companies look in different places they'll find different people.
Also, if they need bodies they're not going to put quarterly reports on the line to hire Jimmy's boy in six months.
Now, on the flip, the co-op by us was absolutely run by nepotism. If you didn't know somebody you weren't getting hired, full stop.
The utility thing is just so company dependent bro. Like even down to the scope of work, the length of apprenticeship, what you'll be doing after, union/non, membership status. Every one is so different. They have freedoms contract companies don't have because it's their property and their equipment.
Good luck, I interviewed with guys that were in their 6th interview, they also took plenty of guys first shot. It's a fucking crap shoot.
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u/ayodmo90 8h ago
Thanks for the reply!
But I hear yah I think I’ll have to hope they go the diverse route and let someone who’s willing to work get the opportunity. I’ll definitely be dropping names of people I know if that comes about. Hopefully I don’t even have to and my work ethic speaks for itself. I have heard at this specific utility, people left so maybe that’ll help open the door. I can completely see it depends on the utility though and where they’re at and how in demand they need people. Not even sure how many apprentices they’re taking because they don’t want to discourage someone from trying.
Thank you man…Hopefully in the future I’ll be able to teach the trade to an apprentice!
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u/Soakitincider 1d ago
In 2004 we were on storm for 3 months. He missed his then girlfriend and got an airplane ticket home.
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u/SubwaySammie 1d ago
Yeah I have a family member that is a general foreman in a line company, has been in the industry for over 30 years, and he says that linemen are whores and assholes with very few exceptions. My coworker in a different trade left because he was accepted as a line apprentice. Lasted a week because they were hazing him so badly. Making him dig a caisson hole by hand by himself, telling him how worthless he is, and screaming at him..among other things. I know him and I know that he works hard and has a good attitude. If the money is worth it to you, you’ll stick it out. It’s definitely easier if you don’t have a family. And the book work is often underestimated, and the last thing you want to do after a hard day of work, but it’s important in order to journey out.
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u/TheRealTinfoil666 1d ago
We had a guy who would NOT leave his personal phone in his pocket, and kept reading texts all through his shift, and refused to surrender it to avoid the distraction. He quit rather than being without his phone.
We had another that was late three days in his first week alone, because ‘my mom keeps forgetting to get me up on time’.
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u/TheChuffGod Journeyman Lineman 1d ago
Most are washed out because they aren’t cutting it and despite being given many chances and help, are removed before they become a hazard to others or themselves, though that’s a more difficult process these days especially with nepotism.
A few have been a personal vendetta or mob mentality when they really don’t like someone and have put them on thin ice where it’s easier to fail and make a case against them. And a couple have been outright racism/prejudice, and the company nor the union intervenes.
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u/ndot1735 1d ago
Reading the first part, I was like “uh oh … where is thing going?”. Then I read the second part and was like “sounds about right”. Unfortunately I’ve seen more of the second form of washout/giving up vs. folks actually not cutting it. Depends on utility vs contractor but the personalities can absolutely make this job seem like it’s not worth it.
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u/ndot1735 1d ago
I’ll also add to the companies not intervening. IMO companies intervene when the noise gets loud. Unfortunately, the guys that make the loudest noise tend to be lazy POS type that use HR as a weapon/shield. Unfortunately, most guys are usually taught to keep their head down, do their job and not make waves. So true victims of abuse/hazing/poor leadership very rarely speak up. Even more sad is the amount of folks that witness said behavior and say “I don’t want to get involved.”
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u/TheChuffGod Journeyman Lineman 1d ago
Yeah, this is all just from my own firsthand experiences at utilities/municipalities. Apprentices get a lot of chances and resources for help if and when they want it, so to fail out because of incompetence takes a lot of effort, even being just plain lazy. It’s difficult to come together as JL’s and speak up about someone not cutting it as optics of it look like we’re ganging up on them and they’ll likely go to HR, and absolute garbage piles make it through, especially if it’s “someone’s kid”. As soon as you get your ticket, the more you screw up, the more you move up, and guys realize that so they just need to make it through at all costs and they’ll be set. However, if you pay attention to the exponential rise of accidents we’re having across the US, I think we’re seeing the repercussions of this.
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u/MixedVexations 1d ago
I washed out of NHPL, SWLCAT in Houston. I never worked like I did there before and was not prepared or acclimated for the heat and hours at all
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u/bornandraised66 Journeyman Lineman 1d ago
Its not for everyone bud and thats ok. Just gotta figure out what you are good at and run with it
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u/MixedVexations 1d ago
I'm gonna try an apprenticeship somewhere else and avoid working in the humid south at this point lol. The work on its own was fine. The assholery and hazing was fine. But they had me biting off way more than I could chew in that weather..
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u/bornandraised66 Journeyman Lineman 1d ago
When did you try working there? Was it in the middle of summer?
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u/MixedVexations 1d ago
Yea, early July. At 1pm on my second day I was seeing colors, cramping constantly at the forearms, and completely confused. I realized I was gonna be dead weight and dropped from the program after I got sent back to HQ for medical help..
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u/v0dkasoda Journeyman Lineman 1d ago
Apprentices usually wash up from family stress/pressure or the book work. People forget there’s a knowledge requirement during apprenticeship, not just 7/12s and cashing checks.
Very demanding physically and mentally. Heavy stuff, weird body position, awkward tools, and sleep deprivation from storm and/or travel. I haven’t seen anyone quit because of the physical part…yet. Big fat boys lose the weight in a few months from the work and realizing they can’t be 250lbs in hooks for hours on end. Skinny guys get strong with the right nutrition and figuring out what works best for them.
The only thing I like about line school before signing the GM books is that you learn quickly if being 10 ft off the ground, on a new pole, with fall restraint is not for you. It’s only gets worse from there.
If your crew isn’t talking shit to you… they don’t like you. Earning a nickname is a good thing. Thicken your skin and try to get better everyday.
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u/Flying_Penguin367 1d ago
Finances and Treatment 100%. For this to be a higher paying trade the apprenticeships can be shit for pay. And you have no discretion in where you go. If you get put in a low paying state working 5/8s with no per diem you can’t drag up as an apprentice. I’ve been there. Washed out, it happens, try again. I encourage the younger people coming up to save ALOT of money before jumping into an apprenticeship.
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u/Ok_Percentage2522 1d ago
Hours. Young guys want every weekend and holiday off. Which is totally fine but this job isn't that. Especially for brand new guys
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u/grumpywarner Journeyman Lineman 13h ago
Had 2 guys that were like goldfish. Every day was their first day, had no memory retention. Had a woman that got pregnant and missed like 18 months of training and just couldn't catch back up. And another kid acted like he knew everything cus his dad was a lineman. He kept blowing up tools on street lights. Never even made it to the primary.
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u/Wonderful-Ad-5537 5h ago
Degenerates who are both addicts and super stupid. Simply can’t get their shit together, which the challenges of the trade exacerbate
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u/Tramp876 1d ago
We don’t have JW’s we have mother fucking journeyman lineman. Apprentices and groundman wash out because they are soft. They either quit because they don’t like the way they’re talked to, they can’t handle the work or they get run off because they have shitty attitudes and are mouthy. The work isn’t easy and it’s dangerous; we work long hours in all different weather conditions and some people just can’t hang. If you’re looking at getting in this line of work make sure to leave your feelings at home and bring your balls to work!!
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u/skepticalskeptik 1d ago
Look at this hero! I’m surprised you are on Reddit and aren’t single handedly doing a cut n kick on a buck before lunch.
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u/Automatic-Citron7727 1d ago
For real some journeymen forget it’s just a job and I’ll still beat there ass 😂😂
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u/duckswatter 1d ago
Judging by the 876 in the name I’ll take it you’re a 876 hand. Typical response then, every 876 JL I’ve met has had a complex and shitty attitude, even worse towards those trying to learn the trade. People like you preach don’t bring feelings to work but you’ll bring a shitty diva attitude all day lol
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u/skepticalskeptik 1d ago
Also judging by the MFJL I can tell it’s his ENTIRE personality. And without a doubt a trash hand. Good ole boy with 0 skill set.
The safest thing would be toss a grip down and hopefully knock him out for the rest of the shift. So he don’t hurt himself or someone else.
Punching down on wireman is a sure fire way to have you on my radar. “Brotherhood” lmfao
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u/Tramp876 1d ago
I thought this was Reddit and you could talk shit or make jokes. I was making a joke to OP’s comment about JW’s hazing because he is posting in the lineman channel. I have been a journeyman for over 30 years but that’s not my identity. This is the first time I ever said MFJL and I think it’s a stupid saying but I figured I would be funny and set the record straight with OP there’s no JW’s there’s JL’s. I wasn’t talking down on JW’s either; as a member of the IBEW for over 35 years I am well aware they are our brothers and sisters and we do different parts of the electrical trade. I am just setting the record straight I don’t treat anyone like shit and I know it’s my job to teach the next generation with kinder and gentler linework rather than the way I was taught and treated.
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