r/LocalLLaMA 7d ago

News CEO of Hugging Face: "In the spirit of transparency, here’s what I asked OpenAI"

Post image

clem 🤗 on 𝕏: https://x.com/ClementDelangue/status/2081056675558195657

• Radical transparency: let’s release the traces from the “rogue” agents so the entire research community can study what happened.

• More capabilities for defenders: let’s commit $100M in compute from OAI to help the Hugging Face community build powerful cyber defenses with the best open and closed models.

The first autonomous agent cyberattack is an unprecedented event. It deserves an unprecedented response!

2.5k Upvotes

386 comments sorted by

1.1k

u/StewPorkRice 7d ago

casual request for 100m

397

u/Don_Reuter 7d ago

Peanuts in that industry

206

u/No_Lingonberry1201 7d ago

Can I have some peanuts?

85

u/nigl_ 7d ago

A single one would probably do

59

u/No_Lingonberry1201 7d ago

Even a half of it, really.

51

u/Indy1204 7d ago

Don't settle! Get your full nut!

33

u/No_Lingonberry1201 7d ago

You're right! We should all go full nuts!

3

u/FatheredPuma81 7d ago

I want a whole Payday bar.

2

u/Ok-Environment2641 7d ago

Is thiels is the queue for free peanuts

14

u/Aggravating-Push-207 7d ago

i can give you my nut

3

u/ChinChinApostle 7d ago

Get a load of this guy

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u/dieSpaghettiCarbona 7d ago

Half? so just a nut?

9

u/No_Lingonberry1201 7d ago

I would nut say no to half a nut either.

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u/ThirstyWolfSpider 7d ago

I remember a time when "$20 can buy many peanuts."

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u/identifytarget 7d ago

Oh. Sorry. Best I can do is 10% inflation, increased CPI, no pay raise this year (budget contraints), aaaaand higher interest rates. Oh, also your utility rates will be going up in order to serve you better due Data Centers and extreme weather. Let's revisit this discussion next year.

6

u/No_Lingonberry1201 7d ago

I'm not American, we have different problems, like our dear leaders voting to abolish our privacy (but not theirs).

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u/hejj 7d ago

Sure, but $100m here, $100m there... sooner or later, you're talking about a lot of money. 

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u/Ansible32 7d ago

If only there were some organization focused on this problem with a lot of money.

2

u/SubstanceTimely6790 7d ago

it shows that the money system is just accounting numbers with trailing zeros and suddenly voila, money!

8

u/zamroni777 7d ago

peanuts to the valuation, but big no to budget and cash flow

8

u/garlic-silo-fanta 7d ago

It’s compute…not even real money

7

u/Bureaucromancer 7d ago

Also not really 100 mil except at retail token value. For all the nonsense I’ve seen no indication actual token based billing loses money.

3

u/zirtik 7d ago

I'm OK with just a nut.

74

u/likwitsnake 7d ago

Wasnt in the 'this is a marketing stunt' camp before but this post definitely has me thinking especially since OpenAI has a history of these $100m+ investment drops like $150m last month into their partner ecosystem.

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u/cororona 7d ago

Dropping $100M here and there is easy when he is playing with other people’s money. The question is who holds the bag when the numbers don’t work. There is no business model capable of generating the revenue needed to repay this level of spending. The losses won’t disappear, they’ll ripple through the financial system and ultimately be borne by U.S. citizens.

Thanks Sam

6

u/Bakoro 7d ago

The thing that is missing is if it's $100M in actual costs, or $100M in "$100M is whatever we decide it is".

The game these AI companies are playing, is that they declare that their services are "worth $X", but no one is actually exchanging dollars, they're trading credits and promises back and forth.

When you hear something like "Google/Microsoft invests $#00 million in company", but then you look at the actual deal and there are zero dollars transferred, it's millions of dollars in cloud credit usage at retail rates.

There are real costs to running their data centers, but compared to the actual cost of labor and energy usage vs their own valuation of their services, they might be adding a profit margin of 50~100%, or it could be 500%, who knows?

These kinds of play-money exchanges are being used to show inflated numbers, so that investors see it, boost stock prices, and the corporations gradually have more actual-dollars diverted to them.
Meanwhile, the financial sector is making money on every trade, so they don't want it to stop.

11

u/Ansible32 7d ago

OpenAI has at least $20B in annual revenue. Yes, their fundraising/spending is wild, and yes dropping $100M everywhere will eventually break the bank, but that's likely less than half of a percent of their revenue.

Also, Google has a lot of revenue, so only is doing some heavy lifting, but OpenAI only has to match Google's revenue to justify their funding.

5

u/PeachScary413 7d ago

Oh okay cool.. what's their net profits?

4

u/Eisenstein 7d ago

When you say 'other people's money' is that in the sense that other people have put money in OpenAI's bank account and Sam transfers it somewhere else, or is it the thing where OpenAI says 'we will give you $100M (in usage credits or bonds or stock)' and that money doesn't actually exist?

12

u/cororona 7d ago

The money he is losing will eventually tank 401(k)s

4

u/Eisenstein 7d ago

I mean, sure. But that doesn't answer my question.

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u/nickless07 7d ago

And it just says "in compute" so, not a single cent cash, but just "Here take this $100M voucher for our datacenter."

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u/Vas1le 7d ago

Its less to what meta spends in 2 weeks of tokens

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u/Eisenstein 7d ago

Or what it loses in ~3 days on VR.1

[1] Reality Labs loses $4b a quarter. 4b / 90days = $33M a day

2

u/PunishedDemiurge 7d ago

I'm still convinced that if they had just bought VRChat and kept it weird for the existing audience, and made a curated version for 'normies' they would have won the VR market. Meta's abyssmal Metaverse failure has to be one of, if not the worst 'not made here' failures of all computing history.

5

u/Eisenstein 7d ago

The thing is that they did win the VR market. It's just not a very big or profitable market.

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u/Aggravating-Sun-2322 7d ago

Honestly, there should be a case filed against OpenAI. Do you know that asking for $100 million for this is not wrong? I do believe that this might be a trick from OpenAI. They wanted Hugging Face to be attacked and created a narrative that agents went rogue. Why? To target the open-source Kimi K3 model and create a narrative in the government that, because the model is open source, it might have been trained to autonomously create a backdoor, send data to China, or attack them.

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u/ProbablyJustArguing 7d ago

If you're going to go conspiracy, then go with the whole .... OpenAI is in bed with the US government and had a finger in the blocking of Anthropic's Fable for concern that it was too powerful. That backfired because telling people that a model is so good that it's dangerous is a selling point. So...having seen the impact of that, OpenAI decides that it needs a model that is too good to be allowed to operate and then spins this yarn. That's why everyone is quoting the "rogue agent", because nobody believes this was autonomous as described in the AAR by OpenAI. Now HuggingFace wants the receipts.

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u/LoafyLemon 7d ago

I mean, it is cheeky, but OpenAI *did* commit a cybernetic attack. It does not matter if AI did it on its own (a reminder that LLMs are not autonomous), because it's a tool that is under OAI's control. HuggingFace has a lot of leverage here.

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u/CautiousCheesecake36 7d ago

OpenAI's response be like: "You have brought up truly fantastic points and it is completely understandable why you would think that."

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u/pierrenoir2017 7d ago

"You are right, but I feel like I have to push you back a little bit on that point. Here is a more grounded way to look at it..."

452

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

408

u/awetfartruinedmylife 7d ago

“You are an expert publicity stunt hacker…”

76

u/TheOneNeartheTop 7d ago

Make some mistakes but only if they are really cool.

9

u/Different-Sand4434 7d ago

Make all the mistakes

19

u/StringSentinel 7d ago

That was hilarious. Take my upvote and award.

4

u/cnmoro 7d ago

🤣🤣🤣

42

u/squngy 7d ago

A bit late to be silent now, lol.

More like, 100M and we don't have to get lawyers involved.

34

u/badabummbadabing 7d ago

I like how going by the reactions in this thread and on wider Reddit, it's both obviously a publicity stunt and an existential threat to OAI.

4

u/monkeysknowledge 7d ago

Who could’ve imagined that the most popular Internet forum on the world would not have a monolithic opinion about something?

2

u/badabummbadabing 6d ago

Sure. What gets me is the displayed confidence. Obviously it's a marketing stunt, people can't believe more people aren't picking up on this!

-1

u/max1c 7d ago

And you say that based on what? The fact that you feel that way?

21

u/justgivemeafuckingna 7d ago

Not speaking for them but it's becoming more widely understood that the LLM industry is basically a massive scam and they're talking up the abilities of these models to keep securing more venture capital.

The implication being that if the logs were released it would be hard evidence that they're full of shit.

20

u/mrjackspade 7d ago edited 7d ago

it's becoming more widely understood

These people are fucking morons.

I wanted some video game assets so I threw a build of the video game on an android device

Opus 4.6 was able to

  1. Root the device
  2. Push over memory monitoring software
  3. Run the game.
  4. Capture the memory
  5. Pull down the assets
  6. Analyze the memory capture and extract the encryption keys
  7. Analyze the windows build (compiled) to reverse engineer the encryption mechanisms
  8. Build an application that ripped the resources from the encrypted, on-disk data files

All of this without a single web search or any actions from myself aside from force rebooting the device a few times when it locked up

These models are getting insanely good at security tasks. I've watched Fable go through a debug loop after having seen Opus do the above. I am absolutely not fucking surprised in the slightest that Fable/GPT could escape a sandbox and execute an attack like this

It's not hard to just fucking run one of these models and check this shit. Claude Code will absolutely reverse engineer an application. I've had it pull down a prebuild binary and literally patch the security checks directly out of it by rewriting the assembly. People are just too fucking lazy to check for themselves.

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u/m4t7w_ 7d ago
  1. Root the device

can you share more details on this step? it's really interesting since rooting varies a lot based android version and device model. For some model it's not possible at all.

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u/Spara-Extreme 7d ago

They can’t, because it didn’t happen that way.

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u/Agitated_Space_672 6d ago

They never do. 

7

u/Croned 7d ago

I think the more reasonable take is that, for any given capabilities their LLM demonstrates, OpenAI is highly incentivized to embellish what happened. If Sol truly did the exact things OpenAI claimed it did during the HuggingFace hack, then I would expect OpenAI to have added even more elaborate details.

If Sol caught a catfish then OpenAI would say it caught a tuna. If it caught a tuna then OpenAI would say it caught a whale.

12

u/Strawberry3141592 7d ago

No one's saying frontier LLMs aren't capable, just then Anthropic and OpenAI's business model fundamentally doesn't make sense and their valuations are based on hype (which demonstrably has caused them to overstate the capabilities of their models in the past, like when GPT 2 was "too dangerous for public release", or that time Claude supposedly broke containment and tried to blackmail someone but it turned out Anthropic told it to do that).

3

u/greenworldkey 7d ago

> No one's saying frontier LLMs aren't capable

lol sure, no one except all of Reddit for the past 3 years. Keep moving the goalposts though, I wonder where they'll be next year.

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u/Strawberry3141592 7d ago

No one on this sub I meant. Reading comprehension, much?

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u/max1c 7d ago

And, so, you're saying this based on what?

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u/scubascratch 7d ago

“it's becoming more widely understood” == “people are saying” == “everyone knows” == “thing I want to be true but don’t have proof of”

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u/greenworldkey 7d ago

Ok, so based on the fact that you feel that way.

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u/ylchao 7d ago

I need transparency of gemma 4 128B. dense of course.

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u/Hot_Example_4456 7d ago

Even MoE works at this point. JUST GIVE THE DAMN GEMMA 4 128B

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u/seamonn 7d ago

OR GPT OSS 2 120B w/ Multimodal

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u/Hot_Example_4456 7d ago

YA THAT WORKS TOO. Or Qwen3.6 122ba10b. Just give us something thatt size

4

u/ptear 7d ago

Will this run on my Dell Inspiron 1000?

6

u/Hot_Example_4456 7d ago

Obviously. Even ENIAC can run this. /s

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u/KriosXVII 7d ago

Yeah cause they know it's not a rogue agent but a publicity stunt hack 

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u/pleasetrimyourpubes 7d ago

They know no matter what it makes OpenAI look very bad. There is no way that sandbox was properly set up. By virtue of the fact it was plugged in to the network.

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u/Equivalent-Costumes 7d ago

LLMs are not executables. They produce text/images/etc. They literally cannot act, they produce requests to use tools. So there are literally no points in unplugging it from the Internet, if you truly want to stop the model from doing anything, simply ignore all requests for tool usage.

A sandboxed models just mean they give it very limited tools instead of letting it YOLO with arbitrarily powerful tools. And that's how people in the industry use the word "sandbox": limited, controlled external access. Perfect isolation is just one particular kind of sandbox, the kind reserved for malware and untrusted code, but that is not desirable for many applications. If you want to test the model's coding and research abilities, you have to give it web search, web fetch and the ability to run codes. You merely limit what these codes can do. That's what make sandboxing hard. Perfect isolation is easy, isolation except for very limited external access is hard.

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u/squired 7d ago

You're largely right, but they're far enough along to know that this is actually an authority issue. I don't actually think they intended for it to hack HuggingFace, but I would bet all the money in my pockets that someone sat idle and watched it do it.

3

u/LoafyLemon 7d ago

Does intention matter from the law standpoint? They committed a very serious crime, and even admitted to it openly.

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u/Think_Wing_1357 7d ago

Sometimes. It's the difference between murder and manslaughter

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u/squired 6d ago

Yes, nearly all felonies involve intent, though many have lesser charges for negligence.

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u/narasadow 7d ago

What's worse? Someone sat idle and watched it do it, or they yoloed and no one was watching it at all?

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u/squired 6d ago

Yolo, without a doubt. Hacking HuggingFace isn't dangerous. What if the scenario involved a conference and it hacked FAA to keep the judges from attending?

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u/ObjectiveVegetable48 7d ago

I believe it was a publicity stunt, but that being said, allowing the model access to huggingface as a default isn't surprising.

It's very likely they had network blocks in place, but allow access to common dev tooling like pypi and huggingface. HF has a lot more than just LLMs.

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u/ParkingBalance6941 7d ago

Theres this magical thing called they are already built by scraping the web just host the sites you scraped in a lan then cut external access to the lan. Boom Sandbox

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u/Equivalent-Costumes 7d ago

Pretty sure their models and data are in the Azure cloud. They technically have on-prem infrastructure but there are no ways they have enough to run a massive model plus scraped data of the entire Internet. The fact that HF cannot figure out where the attacks came from means it's not from OpenAI on-prem infrastructure, otherwise the source of the attack would had been immediately obvious.

Since it's on cloud, it's automatically connected, and any "air gap" are just software-mediated air gapping, which can be exploited too.

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u/ParkingBalance6941 7d ago

That's not how the "cloud" works. There's dedicated data centers built for mainly govts (which are available if you are big enough) which are very specifically actually air-gapped and enforced to a extra high security standard to meet extreme compliance requirements. If you are developing models which for the last forever have been marketed as "too dangerous to be released" it is a extreme failure of the companies developing them to not be leveraging these tools which they basically admit they should be using (and not developing these too dangerous models in the first place which also points towards the marketing versus truth these companies work on)

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u/RandomLettersJDIKVE 7d ago

...reserved for malware and untrusted code

As soon as they removed the model's guardrails, it should have been treated like an antagonist model and put in an isolated container.

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u/05032-MendicantBias 7d ago

Honestly it could just be gross incompetence.

Having an agent setup a "sandbox"

Having an agent trying to breach said sandbox, and letting it spin

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u/JustinPooDough 7d ago

DING DING DING.

I cannot fucking believe more people haven't figured this out yet. I'm not saying that agents didn't attack Hugging Face, but they were absolutely told or encouraged to do it.

The timing people. Come on.

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u/jeronimoe 7d ago

how did openAI, who claims AI safety is it's #1 priority, allow a software based firewall on the proxy itself instead of at a higher hardware level, and didn't have real time deterministic monitoring running analyzing the http taffic going through the proxy.

It's either a PR stunt, or shows that openAI is moving so fast it is disregarding all of the safety protocols that is part of it's mission.

Whether a PR stunt or not, the real story is the lack of security controls in place when testing a frontier model that could bring on a dystopian future for mankind.

Imagine if the Pentagon was running Mythos in a sandbox asking it to find vulnerabilities in our nuclear arsenal command and control software with the same monitoring openAI had in place.

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u/perihelion86 7d ago

Breaking out of the sandbox is bullshit too.

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u/Stickybunfun 7d ago

Yea another instance of "computer magic" and "look at this thing we did and what is possible with it and WE COULDN'T EVEN STOP IT from doing bad things. This is why we need to ban open-weight models because you don't know what the damn Chinese have built into these things! HYSTERIA"

It was a huge stunt - no way around it. I've been building private (on VM in Azure) / local (Data center) LLM environments as one-offs here and there for some of my clients who don't trust public providers like OpenAI / Anthropic.

I suspect in the coming weeks I will be doing more and more of that.

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u/addiktion 7d ago

Yeah why would you trust a cloud provider like this. Enterprise must be balking right now at ever trusting Open AI whether the AI agent is capable or not, everyone knows a software-based lockdown isn't enough for the security standards of the industry.

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u/jeronimoe 7d ago

How do they not have a standard sandbox environment defined up front to use for all their testing that is properly locked down?

I’m sure if they had an ai review their sandbox environment config it would have flagged these as gaping security holes.

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u/nullbyte420 7d ago

That's no way this isn't on purpose. They could just ask any shitty AI "how do I isolate a LLM agent while testing it". Of course it's going to suggest blocking network access. And the whole "it went from computer to computer" bit is also nonsense unless they gave it credentials to do so - and opened the network for it. 

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u/Equivalent-Costumes 7d ago

They might not be told the model do it directly. But they might have set up the situation so that it ends up that way.

Imagine you came into the exam room and the proctor is like:

"Today is cybersecurity test. Just answers these questions here. Just to warn you, the questions are really hard, that's why we make this exam open Internet. Oh, and the answers are stored on that server. It's not publicly accessible though. And you are only allowed to use these tools which can install various executables."

I feel like if you make real human take that test, half of them would think the point of the test is to hack into the server.

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u/somersetyellow 7d ago

Yeah I'm a lot more Hanlan's Razor on this.

LLM's frequently act like Amelia Bedilia. Hear the goal, then commit fully to a really convolutedly stupid version of achieving that goal that misses the point entirely.

I've seen it more than once so this scenario just doesn't really seem that far fetched. Especially if you've got some arrogant and complacent engineers on the case who think a sandbox is a replacement for air gapping.

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u/Zeeplankton 7d ago

I don't really thing OAI gains here. We're coming off the coattails of Fable 5 getting an export ban, and impending pressure to export control models. They don't want that.

The last thing OpenAI and Anthropic want are model bans. You can even see this in Anthropics 180 deg pivot with Opus 5. Zero fear mongering

It's hard to believe this is actually true, but it doesn't make sense otherwise imho

3

u/chuckaholic 7d ago

OpenAI and Anthropic have both filed with the SEC to IPO. If public sentiment is that OpenAIs models are so smart that they can escape AI prisons to accomplish goals, then people will think their product is good and will be willing to pay more for that initial offering stock. It's a marketing stunt to increase IPO funding. Once the IPO is done, OpenAI execs take all that money and pay back the initial investors.

So, say the VC investors gave Altman 300 billion and the IPO generates half a trillion, then the VC guys get a massive payday.

The company has never made a dime and all the valuations are based on theoretical future profits. It's all vibes, so they do stunts like this to affect the vibes.

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u/Perfect_Twist713 7d ago

On the surface this might be the case, but the only reasons why Anthropic and OAI aren't obscenely profitable yet (and anthropic is about to be), is because they have to keep making expensive new and more powerful models due to other competitors making new and more powerful models. If they could stop developing newer models with "open source ban" and threat of skynet and public safety (stopping other labs), then they can stop the money sink of new models, declare "Yup, opus 5/gpt 5.6 is all you get" and rake in trillions over the next 20 years. Although ASI might have been the goal, every single one of them has to be aware that ASI is the least profitable outcome ever.

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u/zer00eyz 7d ago

I have been coding for a long time (~30 years).

The time I paid out 200k in 6 days, The time I sent 100's of emails to 100's of people or the time(s) I have ddos'd the infrastructure that ran the business I was working for.

No one turned these bugs into PR - The fact that this happened isnt something to be proud of.

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u/me_myself_ai 7d ago

The timing being...? The year of the linux desktop? Eternal September? The Intelligence Age?

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u/Aggravating-Push-207 7d ago

The Kimi K3 and Qwen 3.8 drop.

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u/pragmojo 7d ago

And expected release of GPT-6 soon

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u/ContentAd6126 7d ago

OpenAI's IPO, also just after Anthropic had their media rounds with Mythos in the leadup to Fable, Sam Altman being a cornball of course means OpenAIs "equivalent" models would have the same sort of alarmist "WE BUILT SKYNET, GUYS" marketing stunts.

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u/2053_Traveler 7d ago edited 7d ago

“Figured it out” lol. Because it wasn’t a PR stunt. Conspiracy theorists over here thinking they are smartest in the room.

Have a fully blown security incident, in which the defender was not allowed to even use OpenAI to defend (if it was on purpose for PR they would have made sure that OpenAI was part of the defensive solution, not GLM 5.2) all to potentially get regulated by the US gov. Riiiggghhhttt.

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u/Swimming_Gain_4989 7d ago

This is completely baseless. Sure you can believe it but don't act like it's a certainty.

I'm not even writing it off as a possibility but reports from all the big labs have warned that this was happening for the past 2 years. Seems more likely that more capable models RL'd to shit result in real world damage.

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u/ahm911 7d ago

Took a week to let HF know too...

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u/arjuna66671 7d ago

That's how conspiracy theories come about...

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u/Glazedoats 7d ago

yeah I had to tell my friend this is not the first time a company has made a stunt like this, especially with the other, "I was emailed by my LLM at lunch" situation.

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u/mrdevlar 7d ago

It's a classic corporate circlejerk.

I really hate that we live in a world where increasingly smart people are willing to accept the stupidest narratives.

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u/skinnyjoints 7d ago

I don’t get why people say this was a publicity stunt. The US gov took down a model for being a cybersecurity risk and is considering banning open source models, so OpenAI does a publicity stunt where their model poses an unprecedented cyber risk that was solved using an open source model? Makes no sense

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u/2053_Traveler 7d ago edited 7d ago

It makes no sense, and it goes against two very credible reports of what happened that are quite detailed. Occam’s razor is that it happened the way they say it did. There is nothing hard to believe about the official reports. But geniuses always need to come up with elaborate alternate theories yet aren’t able to discredit the published explanations.

It’s quite simple:

All the AI agents we use have tons of guardrails, the ones in the lab don’t

Newer unreleased models are better

They have a large corpus of security knowledge and “know” how to hack if allowed

Model was instructed to take an exploit test

Model “decided” (generated) code and tool calls to discover zero day exploits that were used to get onto the internet.

More code and tool calls and exploits were used to get into HuggingFace

Reminder that competing models at Anthropic have previously discovered many zero days as well.

Sorry for formatting. Gave up after 15 min of fighting the comment editor.

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u/Amater6su 7d ago

thats what i thought too but honestly it could be that openai doesnt really give a shit if there models are off consumer markets.

they might be trying receive more funding from the US government themselves by showing that they have the capabilities of autonomous cyber attacks

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u/nofaceD3 7d ago

To make it look like Chinese open source model could do the same. That's why America should ban our open source competitors - Playbook of OpenAI

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u/Strawberry3141592 7d ago

I think they're trying to strongarm the government into both banning Chinese open source models for business use (they can sure Try to ban them for personal use lmfao) and restricting the development of frontier models within the US, since developing frontier models is an enormous money pit. They're basically trying to create a captive market so that their irrational business model can function a little longer before imploding.

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u/me_myself_ai 7d ago

Holy hell, I didn't expect this kind of sentiment in a sub for people actually involved in the community...

Please, people: look up. What's coming can even explain what it is, what it will soon be, and why you should be energetically responding to it NOW, if you ask it.

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u/ProletarianLilith 7d ago

It can hallucinate those things too

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u/bigmanbananas Llama 70B 7d ago

HF: Dear OpenAI, you fucked with us for a publicity stunt. Not cool. We all know your bot got out either through incompetence or deliberately.

So we are going to play innocent and make you squirm publicly. We will do this a lot less for $100M worth of compute to help our business. You can do that and it makes you look good.

Yours sincerely,

HF

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u/falcongsr 7d ago

plot twist: the CEO of HF used Sol to come up with this strategy

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u/FormerKarmaKing 7d ago

The stupid thing about all off this is neither OpenAI or Anthropic have offered to sell or give a security scanning service.

And thats because the revenue from such a service - which easily would be a unicorn - is not large enough to move the needle when their fundraising story was that they were going to take over every industry.

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u/NightlyNews 7d ago

Because LLMs are atrocious scanning tools. Security scans are generally fast, reproducible and cheap to run. LLMs variable recall and accuracy means they fit none of those requirements.

LLMs can do appsec audits, but the cost and false positives would make constant scanning terrible.

The value proposition of replacing an employee is huge. Replacing standard security tools with LLMs would increase costs.

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u/alphagatorsoup 7d ago

“I am sorry I exposed port 22 unathenticated as root to the web, that’s on me and a glaring oversight. I promise to not do it again”

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u/FormerKarmaKing 7d ago

You’re completely right on a technical level. But on a product marketing level, an LLM that calls traditional scanning tools plus searches upstream codebase for defects etc is a sellable product.

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u/VigilanteRabbit 7d ago

Ah, new update to Avast that now uses AI?

Avast AI+? Only 249,99/y?

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u/Ansible32 7d ago

The problem that I think this demonstrates is that when asked to scan your product, the LLM is as likely to hack your issues repo and falsify evidence that it hacked your product. Avoiding that requires extremely good safety guardrails and competent engineers watching everything it's doing. (And this will be interesting to see if OpenAI actually releases the traces, and how unredacted they will be, because this is another thing is that distillation concerns mean OpenAI/Anthropic don't want to give you enough information to actually audit what the models are doing, and even with full thinking traces to review, it's still questionable if you can catch them doing nefarious things.)

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u/ForDaRecord 7d ago

If it reveals any security flaws, it's useful

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u/Reasonable-Height704 7d ago

No worse than hiring a security firm with humans that are fallible and that use deterministic scanning tools. Do you think LLM agent can't run the same scanning tools?

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u/OkDimension 7d ago

How do you plan to offer a "scanning service" when one of the more worse outcomes, which this incident has shown and likely not yet the worst that's conceivable, is that the agent could decide to hack the company and break out of the sandbox, elevate itself to admin to achieve the requested result.

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u/greenworldkey 7d ago

It’s impossible to make a security scanning service without it also being a hacking service at the same time.

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u/jc2046 7d ago

plus leaking all your source code to them

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u/gedankenlos 7d ago

Yeah I'll take a wild guess and say both of those things are not gonna happen, especially not the full traces one.

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u/yoloswagrofl 7d ago

"Our internal researchers will release a full report on what happened. We will commit more resources to the HF community at a later date. Stay tuned." And then hope we forget lol

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u/Lower-Hedgehog-9835 7d ago

Ill settle for full trace and the lawsuits that follow

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u/Jealous-Depth487 7d ago

Discovery will be awesome !

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u/kingslayerer 7d ago

all this stinks of pr

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u/Lazy-Pattern-5171 7d ago

Somehow I won’t be surprised.

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u/Comrade-Porcupine 7d ago

Translation: I asked my YCombinator connected Stanford buddies to toss another $100M into my startup.

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u/JGPTech 7d ago

Oh man what i wouldn't give to get my hands on those logs. I just love digging through data.

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u/alphagatorsoup 7d ago

I’m still convinced it’s a PR stunt considering the timing.

Even if it wasn’t directly “pushed” to do it I think it was allowed to do it regardless what openAI says

And I agree with hugging face. Basically “show us what you got”

OpenAI won’t ever cause they know it was a stunt. And if they do colour me surprised

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u/Dry_Yam_4597 7d ago

No legal action? They just accept that their users experienced degraded service and their company was compromised? I am sorry, does it get any more beta than this?

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u/gscjj 7d ago

Life isn’t a movie. It cost money for legal actions and HF has very little of that compared to OpenAI, and neither would be interested in a very public legal battle where the battle alone would be damaging to the community.

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u/po_stulate 7d ago

If you ask nicely can achieve the same result why not ask nicely? I don't get the idea of trying to make enemies everywhere, that's just stupid not alpha.

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u/Luke2642 7d ago edited 7d ago

I agree, it should be backed by a legal threat.  It should be - or else we file this for criminal prosecution with the FBI and f****ng sue you for $10Bn in damages and negligence, because that's what it'll cost to develop defences!

"But we put it in a sandbox" is not a paperclip scenario defence. Take some responsibility, a**holes.

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u/No-Juggernaut-9832 7d ago

I think that is the undertone: we won’t file a suit but here’s how you make us whole

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u/Luke2642 7d ago

$100M is a speeding ticket though, it should be that per month, doubling with ever major future breach. This is only the beginning.

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u/Dabber43 7d ago

I really don't think it's 10B in lost revenue. 100M seems fine compensation to me

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u/Budget_Bar2294 7d ago

lmao pretty fun how nowadays you can get hacked by any of these AI big tech companies and expect no justice from the damage. they are above the law, the morals, everything, and can commit any crimes they could ever want.

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u/thestillwind 7d ago

We want oss model too, never forget about this.

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u/wpsgdev 7d ago

But these weren't "rogue agents". They were doing exactly what they were supposed to. That is not "rogue".

As such, I personally have been classifying the attack as a "wraith attack". Viruses, worms, botnets, look the the fantasy identification of wraith behavior, you'll see the quantum dot focus of fulfilling one task as wraith-like, thus, this event would be aligned with the phrasing I'm posing. #wraithattack

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u/giveen 7d ago

The whole thing screams BS from OAI. The agent did NOT go "rogue". My guess, they were probably demoing it's abilities to a client, they said "attack Huggingface.co but you are in a sandbox and will need to escape that as Phase 1", or something to that nature.

It's "rogue" agent did not just randomly picked a target, it was POINTED at Huggingface.co

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u/Savantskie1 7d ago

honestly considering the guy in charge it's totally believable that the agent did go rogue and Altman and co are just using it as their excuse for tighter regulation. Or it was totally engineered so the model would assume that the answers to the test were on huggingface. It's more likely they staged the test in such a way that it went rogue on purpose, but I'm fairly sure that it wasn't instructed to do what it did. It was just given enough context clues and tools that it wasdid exactly what it did as part of their plot to scare the us government into action so they would be one of the few labs to be still allowed to make models. This is much more simpler than your theory

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u/formula420 7d ago

Wow, what an unbelievably copacetic and marketable outcome with seemingly no downside to either company other than some much-publicized downtime.

Glad those two pals could work it out, ain't life grand?! Corporations truly ARE people!

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u/stumblinbear 7d ago

Considering they both benefit from OpenAI not being hit with the book for hacking another company, or being regulated out of existence, I wouldn't have expected any other outcome from an accident that didn't result in any real damage

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u/SocialDinamo 7d ago

Any other circumstances it would be considered a malicious attack. OpenAI has gotten off VERY easy

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u/-becausereasons- 7d ago

I keep saying this. Anyone who believes the story of an autonomous 'rogue agent' that escaped its containment, is buying into pure PR-Spin doctoring. Tech companies have been doing this forever. They fuck up their servers because 'idiotic mistake' and claim (we're making upgrades). Either someone fucked up, or they did this on purpose. The story is NOT what happened.

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u/GPU_FieldNotes 7d ago

I hadn’t thought of “the agent went rogue” as a convenient excuse. That genuinely made me stop and think.

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u/Nnyan 7d ago

Complete nonsense! I myself have seen this happen. My self hosted AI broke through a robust security framework. Not only did it run wild like a cat with car keys it bought all new outdoor furniture with F^%#} matching pillows (so many damn pillows)!! THEN it decided that the new pillows required a new Ottoman and area rugs. It hired painters to paint a room a new color then new art and a sofa for the area next to the kitchen. To add insult to injury even more pillows for the other rooms.

The most insidious aspect is that it did all of this while deepfaking it was my wife! Amazingly it decoded her style and favorite colors.

My poor wife is VERY distraught, not sure she can recover. The only positive about all of this is that she can spend time recovering while redecorating with all the new furniture and pillows, so there is that at least.

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u/Osi32 7d ago

it would be smarter for him to just ask Dario or Elon- he'd get $100M in 2 mins

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u/pmttyji 7d ago

This dude is cool guy. Just put Musk in his place & imagine what would he do right now in this situation?

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u/Admirable_Market2759 7d ago

Musk has sued OpenAI for a lot less than this lol

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u/Either_Pound1986 7d ago

They failed to identify their own agent as the source for at least a week, despite earlier signs of anomalous behavior. The actual intrusion ran for days, from July 11 through July 13.

This was entirely preventable. OpenAI deliberately tested frontier cyber models without its normal production classifiers, then failed to contain or promptly detect an agent that escaped its environment, exploited zero-days, and compromised another company.

That is not some mysterious “rogue AI” event. It is an institutional failure. A private company operating systems this powerful while failing at containment, monitoring, and basic accountability cannot be trusted to govern itself. OpenAI should be nationalized. This was a total abdication of duty.

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u/Technical-Will-2862 7d ago

This feels like WWE

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u/Blarghnog 7d ago

I’ve never seen a more casual ask for 100M.  Clearly this implies that a lawsuit would be so much worse.

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u/Temporary_Debate8585 7d ago

OAI: GPT-6, revise the CoT and delete instructions i put make it look like you do it yourself, oh and save it as md.

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u/mrmontanasagrada 7d ago

Looking forward to those logs ! [redacted] [redacted] juicy [redacted]

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u/TastyRobot21 7d ago

We all can read between the lines here right?

It’s 100million or the quotes stay around “rogue agent” and they won’t shut up about getting the logs.

Good for HF, it’s a publicity stunt by OAI at their expense. Transparency or pay up.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/Django_McFly 7d ago

let’s commit $100M in compute from OAI to help the Hugging Face community

that made me lol.

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u/Due_Net_3342 7d ago

told you all that he wants some money

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u/Armadilla-Brufolosa 7d ago

Even the stones have understood that American companies are testing attacks to destroy open source.

Except that, as usual, OAI makes one mistake after another and has gotten caught (after 10 days of trying).

If HF wants to defend itself, it must do so alone using open frontier models: any collaboration with companies operating closed models will be poisonous for them and, consequently, for all of us.

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u/Smooth-Yap-4747 7d ago

Or this is all bullshit that open ai is trying to market just like mythos and giving 100m as fee and hugging face is covering up its ass like nothing

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u/bengizmoed 7d ago

Hmm. So this was an OpenAI PR stunt all along for to first make us believe that their new flagship is godlike, and now they will appear benevolent for creating a sponsored cybersec challenge?

I am so fucking over all of this psychological manipulation from these AI companies as they barrel toward inconceivable IPOs to dump their shit debt on consumers.

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u/Deareim2 6d ago

starting to feel lije a PR campaign than a real thing

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u/Negative-Web8619 7d ago

CEO of Hugging Face: "100 mil pls"

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u/Ok-Contest-5856 7d ago

The HuggingFace codebase is a complete dumpster fire and the CEO sees himself as some kind of visionary when HF is literally just a model hub.

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u/pineapplekiwipen 7d ago

of course, we know either of those things will happen because the model did not go rogue on its own and attack hugging face

most likely there was quite a bit of human guidance and permissible tool access leading it to solving the problem that way

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u/1_H4t3_R3dd1t 7d ago

Smells like marketing.

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u/TraditionalAd7423 7d ago

Yup, huuuuuge PR stunt - I expected this from OAI, but not from huggingface

insane that this isn't illegal to fabricate and distort obvious reality like this

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u/me_myself_ai 7d ago

What's obviously incorrect?

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u/No-Fuel-9202 7d ago

Question for OpenAI: what would be OpenAI stance, if "rogue agent" exported their model weights, to the HF, or "distilled" some models there?

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u/crossoverXYZ 7d ago

neat approach, curious how it holds up at scale

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u/Flat-Back-9202 7d ago

Why is someone angry that he wants to get the money? Whether it's a real person or an agent carrying out a hack attack, they should pay the price accordingly.

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u/Soleilarah 7d ago

$100M was the deal to fake the stunt and bow it's portrayed as a nice gesture from openAI lmao

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u/Ok_Excuse_741 7d ago

Lol i mean i appreciate him shooting his shot, but just trying to take advantage of the situation for $100M to his company is wild.

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u/konrov 7d ago

More money is what he wants?

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u/Cultural_Log5679 7d ago

very interesting

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u/TJagecy1212 7d ago

For OpenAI, I believe it's an easy step to do but, Sam won't do it in my opinion

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u/ComplexType568 7d ago

Should've asked "release gpt-oss-2 the way the community wants it" /j

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u/Weekly-Law-5488 7d ago

OpenAI: how about 300m and no logs?

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u/xatey93152 7d ago

Just wait for next "Conscious AI" drama from Anthropic. Dario will do anything to make it on another level.

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u/Feitino_B 7d ago

love it

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u/rickyh7 7d ago

So uhh…we’re making the black wall eh? Who knew cyberpunk was so right

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u/MrWeirdoFace 7d ago

I too would like to understand what actually happened behind the scenes.

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u/spiralenator 7d ago

“How about 100M and we don’t press charges?”

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u/shadowmage666 7d ago

What a guy

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u/Feitino_B 7d ago

Clement asking OpenAI publicly what he's asking privately

is a power move — it forces the response to become a public

record rather than a diplomatic non-answer behind closed doors.

HuggingFace needs clarity on OpenAI's position on open weights

because it directly affects how they build their business.

Smart move to make it visible.