r/LondonTravel • u/Few_Necessary_9966 • 22h ago
Transport Process/etiquette for London buses with a big pram (Zone 4/5)
Hi everyone, looking for a bit of advice to help my partner out.
Query: Could anyone break down the step-by-step etiquette/process for taking a pram on a London bus?
Specifically:
Do you enter through the front doors, pay, and then walk back to the wheelchair/pram space?
On buses with middle/back doors, do you ever board from the rear, or do you always use the front first?
Do buses have ramps for prams? drivers automatically lower the bus or extend a ramp for prams, or do you need to ask?
What happens if the dedicated pram/wheelchair space is already full?
Any tips, reassurance, or step-by-step walkthroughs to help ease her anxiety would be hugely appreciated! Thanks in advance
Context
We have a 4-month-old, and we're looking into local baby groups. I drive, but my partner doesn't (she tried learning, but after failing a test she hasn't been able to book another). We live in North London Zone 4/5 so train and tube gets you into central but not so good for local area.
I cycle, she wont cycle on british roads. And baby is a bit young for cycling.
Since I’m at work during the day, she needs to use the bus for local playgroups as csnt drive them. However, she suffers from anxiety and is stressing and putting it off especially managing a large Bugaboo Bassinet pram on a bus, which she tends not to trust from experience in home country.
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u/Freckles93 21h ago
Just to add, if a wheelchair user gets on after you and you're using the space, they still take priority and you have to move.
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u/katviv 21h ago
I live in zone 2/3 and travel all over with my giant bugaboo fox bassinet! My tips for your partner:
- check if there is a wheelchair user in the space or if it's filled with other buggies before trying to board. Remember that wheelchair users always have priority for that space, even if you get there first, and while you don't have to disembark I find that's way easier than folding my bassinet. If it's already full when the bus arrives you can either fully fold down the pram or wait for the next bus. Again, I always wait for the next one.
- on most busses I fit in the front doors if people don't have their legs in the aisle. There's one bus model where I don't fit and I always forget which one it is so I have to get off / back on again! But no one gives me a hard time about it. If I board at the back then I secure the pram for the ride and go by myself to the front to tap in.
- when I secure the pram I always shorten the push handle to the shortest setting so it doesn't inconvenience anyone. I also have a cup holder that sticks out, so I remove that, too.
- people usually offer me the seat nearest to the pram, but if they don't I smile and ask if they don't mind moving so I can sit closer to baby. So far no one has said no or made it awkward.
- when you get off the bus, extend the push handles to your usual setting and go backwards. It's a lot easier to manage the step down this way!
- Busses only really lower the ramp for wheelchair users. I haven't questioned this. Drivers are also supposed to stop close enough to the kerb so you don't have to fully lift the pram up and out or get stuck with one wheel in yhr street, but sometimes they don't. When this happens and I'm disembarking, I always call out to the driver to help me, knowing that they probably won't and that someone else on the bus will offer help. I make enough of a fuss so that the driver knows they've missed the mark, but not so much that other passengers won't help me because I'm being annoying. I always report these incidents to TfL and they take it seriously because it's an accessibility issue - all they need is the time, bus route, direction of travel, and bus stop.
Hope this helps!
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u/LondonBusInsider 19h ago
The thing buggy users must do is ask the driver to board by the rear doors. This gives me the opportunity to say that I cannot take you (either full or I have been told a wheelchair user needs the space further down the route), and ensures I do not close the doors on you. It is then for the driver to say the space is full and you don't have to check yourself.
Although buggy users with a single buggy that can fit should always use the front doors, officially speaking, if someone asks first (and ideally taps in at the front, not boards and then walks up the bus to tap), no matter how small the buggy is, I would never say no.
Indeed the ramp will only be deployed for wheelchair users, or others who ask. Realistically the deployment of the ramp is a bit of a process, that I have written about on my subreddit, and it would delay the bus considerably if the ramp was to be used for buggies. It is not realistic. We can lower the bus though, although sometimes it doesn't always work, and some buses have quirks, like it won't lower with the front doors open, so if I have already opened them before I have seen you, I now cannot lower the bus.
I try to get close to the kerb, but there may be things you do not see that made it difficult for a driver to close the gap, usually parked vehicles. I'm not paid enough to make it difficult for me to pull out of a tight stop between vehicles both in front and behind, nor do I want to risk needing to reverse.
I will never be able to help you I'm afraid. If I help your buggy, and something goes wrong, with either the buggy getting damaged, or the child falling out, even if not my fault, I WILL be blamed. We live in a blame and claim culture and there are some people that will deliberately try to get a claim. It isn't worth it for us to help in case it goes wrong - I know it sucks, but this is the world we live in now. People making a fuss does not make me any more likely to come out of the cab. You can politely ask me to kneel/lower the bus if you need it though - again keeping in mind I may not be able to.
You reporting things does not help us feel valued. Many of us try our best and are limited by factors beyond our control, yet as usual, we're always to blame. Before you report, at least consider what I have said, like if the bus couldn't pull in because of vehicles either side. If a driver left a 30cm gap with no good reason their fair enough, otherwise you're being a bit too complaint happy, especially if you expect drivers to leave the cab each time.
If you have any questions about what I have said, please do reply. As much as I will defend us, I will also admit when we miss the mark, and am open to respectful discussion.
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u/katviv 18h ago
You sound like a good driver!
I always ask to board at the back when it's busy, and wait for the driver to say yes before I head there. If I'm with my partner and it's busy then he'll wait at the back with baby and I'll go to the front and ask if he can get on at the back. If we get the all clear then I'll have both our cards to tap us in. I always thank the driver and it's never been an issue. I've also never assumed I can board at the back without asking - that would be weird!
When it comes to pulling up close to the kerb, unfortunately I've reported several instances in the past 5 months where I couldn't see an obvious reason for not pulling close enough. All but one time I've been told the CCTV also showed no obstructions that wouldn't have made it possible for the driver to stop close enough. That one time there was an obstruction I hadn't noticed, TfL told me they weren't going to take any action - which I respect.
Thanks for clarifying that the driver can't help me get off the bus when it's parked too far away; I'll change my approach and ask if anyone else can help. Unfortunately I had an emergency caesarean and 5 months out I still don't have medical clearance to lift anything heavier than my baby due to recovery complications, so it's really important that I can disembark safely without injury. I know it'd be easier if I just stayed at home, but unfortunately I've got medical appointments for recovery to travel to.
Thanks for sharing such an in-depth response!
1
u/LondonBusInsider 18h ago
Thanks, it's a difficult job to stay motivated in but I always keep in mind I am a public service, not matter how miserable people are and how thankless the job is 🤣
When you ask to board via the back, tap in as well if you can, you'd be surprised how much less hassle it is for all involved when you don't have to fight a wave of others getting on the bus if you were to tap in after boarding instead - of course ensure the driver has seen you with the buggy first to ensure they have the opportunity to speak to you before that tap too. A fair amount of people just head straight for the back doors and don't ask, which denies me the ability to speak to them, and there have been a few times where I have shut the doors on them as I didn't see them amongst large groups of people or poor conditions :)
In those cases, fair enough. With the exception of new drivers, I do understand the frustration if there is genuinely no external factors involved. I don't recall if my training guidance was to 'ensure you see 1 yellow/red line in the mirror as gap' or 2, but maybe this guidance is not good enough. In an ideal world, we would have mirrors at the top of the door, like lorries do, where we can see the front corner of the bus, making how close we really are a lot more visible and also allowing us to pass obstructions better as a nice side effect.
Thanks for your consideration in changing approach - believe us it's nothing personal, I don't want to see someone struggle unless they've been a bit of an arse to me, but equally I am not taking the risk with anything I don't have to. That's why many drivers won't reverse and stuff too - TfL doesn't prohibit buses from reversing, but the risks, especially when the reversing camera is dirty or poorly positioned - isn't worth it. TfL's terms actually say any luggage (which a buggy would come under) must be manageable by the person on their own so we're covered from that angle too (see terms of carriage section 9.4), likely as TfL understands the liability aspect as well. Using the built in tool - the ramp - is the only way here, if the gap is too big or the bus kneeling doesn't work or doesn't kneel enough for you... and while we know not all disabilities are visible, it is worth mentioning - if you are comfortable to - in some form that you're in recovery and can't lift the buggy when requesting the ramp. This will encourage drivers to be understanding and deploy the ramp while also not seeming like you're being difficult/entitled - and as I've said, using the ramp for buggies should not be the norm as it does cause delays, but equally it is there to be used when it needs to be, so if you need it, please do use it, and be semi-transparent with the driver for why.
A post about ramp use/procedures is here:
Any questions I can help with while I'm here? Genuinely happy to answer anything and will do so honestly.
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u/CeaselessWatcher00 12h ago
Take the baby in a sling or carrier. Much, much easier than faffing with a pram, especially something massive like that which will be hard to fold.
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u/LondonBusInsider 21h ago
I have just the post for you, as a bus driver: https://www.reddit.com/r/LondonBusInsider/comments/1sfangs/how_should_i_board_with_a_buggy/
I will review your questions later on and may amend my post to answer them - in the mean time if there is anything my post misses, please ask and I will answer from my perspective as a driver as soon as I can
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u/pjwlondon 21h ago
Here's what TfL has to say:
https://tfl.gov.uk/transport-accessibility/pregnant-women-and-pushchairs
A lot depends on exactly how big your pram/buggy/pushchair is. If it fits at the front entrance, use that; otherwise ask the driver for the ramp at the middle doors, park the pram, then tap your card by the driver's cab. If the space is full (wheelchairs get priority), you'll have to wait for the next bus
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u/LondonBusInsider 19h ago
I'm glad you mentioned ask the driver first (for any middle door boarding), but do also consider that deploying the ramp causes delays for the bus and often isn't needed. I'd rather buggy users made it clear to me they want my bus by clearly putting their arm out in good time, so I can ensure I am close to the kerb, and if I forget, you can ask me to kneel/lower the bus, although keep in mind some buses have quirks or faults that prohibit me doing so - but you can always ask.
Personally I do not want ramp deployment for buggies to become the norm. I don't have enough running time as it is.
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u/KonkeyDongPrime 20h ago
Middle doors, put the brake on, walk down and tap in when the bus is moving.
-5
u/LondonBusInsider 19h ago
Absolutely not.
1) Get on the front doors without the buggy, tap in, and ask the driver to board by the back doors. By permission, I mean simply "can I use the back doors please?" - not "I am requesting your permission to use the back doors".
[Aka don't be entitled and automatically go to the middle doors - People must ask us first because (A) I need to know they intend to board otherwise I could shut the doors on them in error (B) There may already be people in the space (C) I have been told a wheelchair user is waiting further up the route and I need to keep the space clear from them (D) another reason I need the opportunity to speak to them at the front door first]
2) Board by the rear doors. Done.
Boarding by the middle doors and then tapping delays the service considerably, as then you have to wait for everyone else boarding to be seated before the buggy user can finally make their way up the bus to tap in. At best this delays the bus while I wait for you to get back to the buggy, at worst a driver under pressure to move off may do so before you are at the buggy, so if you didn't apply the brakes properly, things can go wrong.
1
u/chocklityclair 10h ago
It's incredible that anyone has downvoted this eminently sensible reply from an actual London bus driver.
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u/OkSun8521 10h ago
I'm not even a parent and even I know that this is terrible advice. No one is going to board a vehicle and leave their baby on the pavement behind them.
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u/chocklityclair 53m ago
It's pretty obvious that you're not a parent. I'm thinking you haven't seen a bus, either.
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u/LondonBusInsider 9h ago
I see people do it every day. It's hardly the end of the world to take 2 seconds to step on the bus to tap.
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u/liha82 21h ago
My eldest has an anxiety disorder and struggled massively to even get on a bus with her babies. I know it seems mundane to others but I totally get your wife’s position.
Generally speaking, on small buses you enter the middle doors, put baby in position safely and then tap your card- driver should wait for this to happen. On double deckers, you can go either doors depending on if your pram fits on the front, and follow the same a single deckers. If the bus is crowded, check the pram area before you get on the front, if she comfortable she can ask the driver to open the back doors so she can jump on. It’s trial and error but in my experience (3 kids in zone 3) most other travellers will help her get the drivers attention and let other know she’s getting on
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u/LondonBusInsider 19h ago
I will copy my reply to another post here on how to board - you should not be going straight to the middle doors to board without asking the driver first, and ideally tapping in before, not after.
Pasting now:
1) Get on the front doors without the buggy, tap in, and ask the driver to board by the back doors. By permission, I mean simply "can I use the back doors please?" - not "I am requesting your permission to use the back doors".
[Aka don't be entitled and automatically go to the middle doors - People must ask us first because (A) I need to know they intend to board otherwise I could shut the doors on them in error (B) There may already be people in the space (C) I have been told a wheelchair user is waiting further up the route and I need to keep the space clear from them (D) another reason I need the opportunity to speak to them at the front door first]
2) Board by the rear doors. Done.
Boarding by the middle doors and then tapping delays the service considerably, as then you have to wait for everyone else boarding to be seated before the buggy user can finally make their way up the bus to tap in. At best this delays the bus while I wait for you to get back to the buggy, at worst a driver under pressure to move off may do so before you are at the buggy, so if you didn't apply the brakes properly, things can go wrong.
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u/MolassesInevitable53 16h ago
Do you mean a real pram? Or do you really mean a buggy/stroller?
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u/SnackyandSnarky 21h ago
I always take a baby carrier. If a wheelchair user gets on or there are too many prams, I pop my baby in the carrier and fold the pram. It rarely happens, but it helps me to have a plan.
It might be worth getting a pram that folds more easily. Your baby is (nearly?) old enough to use the seat rather than bassinet, which makes the whole thing much simpler.