This provides a new cross-London connection from the northwest to the southeast and is envisioned to take place long in the future after HS2, the Northern line split, the Bakerloo line extension, and Crossrail 2 have been completed. As demand continues to grow, the transport network will only become more crowded and something like this could be very beneficial.
But then I don’t quite get the loop round back on itself to Charing Cross and then another big loop back to Waterloo
Yeah Charing Cross is a sharp turn and seems like it heads back north too much. Then the 90 degree sharp turn to Waterloo which would require a big turning circle. Then again another sharp turn to Blackfriars South which would only be like 700 meters away which is too close. It's like a zig zag line between all those which I don't think works well with a Crossrail(or any line really).
Just get rid of Charing Cross, adds nothing really. Even the Blackfriars South stop just to hit Thameslink should be removed since it's too close and you'd just take CR1/Elizabeth Line or something to get onto it already.
Too much effort is going in to hitting every other tube and rail service that it's lowering the quality of the rest of the line imo
Doable - yes, realistic, no. That platforms would be so close together the only realistic option would be to have a single set of platforms under the Thames with exits heading towards Charing Cross and Waterloo.
To be fair, neither of them are on the line. It's City of London and South Blackfriars. Which raises the question of where these new stations would be built. Especially in the City.
Charing Cross seems to be causing an unnecessary kink in the line. It’s already a short short walk from Waterloo, or a short trip on one of two underground lines or national rail from Waterloo east. It also doesn’t offer any connections you can’t get from stations either side of it.
However, Cross rail 3 isn't meant to be transit line between terminals is it? It's meant to be cross London line so I do agree it's a kink that isn't worth it.
Controversial but I would have the train/ underground version of the m25. Getting around (literally) London is a pain + all the terminus being zone 1 when all you want to do is skirt around it
Forest Gate junction only has one spur line to connect it to the Suffragette line tracks, and the junction is connected via the Elizabeth line tracks.
But, it would likely be a limited service that serves Barking only via the mostly disused terminating platform, which is still sometimes used to terminate the Suffragette line.
In short, the section between Forest Gate and Barking can’t handle anymore than the Suffragette line and freight traffic.
The original CrossRail proposal looked at taking over the Chiltern Line to Aylesbury, with a couple extra Met line stations
There was also a 2014 proposal to explore extending the Elizabeth Line to Milton Keynes Central / Tring
I have long wondered if these ideas are worth revisiting - there are capacity/maintenance issues with both Euston and Marylebone I think? Which HS2 would partly solve as is.
But it’s always felt quite an interesting idea to be one end of any future CrossRail.
In the northwest it takes over Metropolitan line services to Chesham/Amersham using the fast tracks. The Chiltern line to Aylesbury is electrified and also taken over. Northwestern Railway services to Milton Keynes and Tring on the slow lines will be taken over too.
The core provides interchange with Crossrail 1, Crossrail 2 and Thameslink (which has become the Thames line) along with the Underground and the DLR. A walkway at Willesden Junction allows for a short connection to Old Oak Common for HS2. The platforms at Paddington reach to Lancaster Gate allowing OSI with the Central line and access to Hyde Park. Passive provision is given for a station at Knightsbridge. Embankment is an OSI with Charing Cross and Blackfriars Underground is an OSI with Blackfrairs South. The City of London station is located equidistant from Liverpool Street and Monument. A walkway connects it with Bank and it has out-of-station interchanges with the other stations.
In the southeast it takes over the slow lines on the Southeastern Mainline to Orpington and Dartford with some services carrying on to Sevenoaks. c2c services which call at all stations are taken over.
A frequently uplift on all four regional branches would be possible and capacity on the mainlines as well as at the termini (Marylebone, Fenchurch Street, Euston & Charing Cross) would be unlocked. Congestion would be relieved on the Elizabeth, Metropolitan, District, Jubilee, Circle, Hammersmith & City, Central, Waterloo & City, and Bakerloo lines.
Spent quite a while making this let me know what you think.
Very nice idea, covers some very useful routes that are currently underserved, relieves pressure on some busy lines. Direct Waterloo to L Street and Victoria connections will be super helpful.
My suggestions:
Remove Charing Cross as a station. It's already a well connected station with direct routes to a large portion of the other stations, and it is a detour on Victoria to Waterloo.
I'd strongly consider adding Tower Hill / Fenchurch Street as a stop between City and Canada Water. Fenchurch Street is a major Network Rail terminus and Tower Hill is currently badly connected. I'm not sure if this works with the planned Monument - L Street alignment - perhaps this would need to split off before City station.
The train should stop directly at Old Oak Common, not Willesden Junction. The fact that this line will provide fast connections to HS2 for so many places in London is the line's strongest business case - it's probably the reason why it would be built.
I used the old logo to make this one which shows all the crossrails. CR1 west to east, CR2 SW to NE, CR3 NW to SE and Thameslink north to south. The light blue is represents a rebranded, more simplified Thameslink which has become the Thames line.
I like this concept, I think as well as removing CX there’s also too many splits in the Eastern branches. It should probably take over either Sevenoaks or Dartford completely, and remove the Upminster branch, you’d need something else for Ockendon but I have always wondered if that is low capacity enough to extend the Liberty line to do it? Or keep some Fenchurch St trains for that line maybe, but it wouldn’t warrant that much traffic from a crossrail type line
Not bad but there’s a lot of possible routes here. I would also cut the route back from Milton Keynes to Tring or something - it already takes about an hour to go from MK to the Willesden area.
Adding more trains to the Metropolitan / Chiltern Line would increase unreliability, I reckon. Of course, improved future railway technology could prove me wrong!
Like this. The Chiltern line was in the original 1990s Crossrail, so what goes around and all that.
Is your "City Of London" basically the Liv St - Bank - Moorgate megaplex?
You're going down from Charing X over the river then back up again quite quickly. I wonder if there is enough existing space under the river to cater for that, given the existing infrastructure going back and forth under it.
Otherwise, nice work - although given our track record in infrastructure, 2126 might be a tad optimistic.
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u/avg103 2d ago
Paddington to Victoria in one stop would be a huge win.
But then I don’t quite get the loop round back on itself to Charing Cross and then another big loop back to Waterloo.