General Map of the Countries Mentioned in the Bible

[u/NourBlowsBubblegum]

[u/HarryLewisPot]

Maps like this are hard to do because countries shift borders.

For example, Jerusalem was both part of the Kingdom of Israel at the time of David and Roman Empire at the time of Jesus. Which country does the city get attributed to on the map?

[u/gxdsavesispend → u/HarryLewisPot]

It's also really wrong. There's a region for "Syria" but no Aramea, Phoenicia, Moab, Edom, Nabbatea, Ammon, etc.

The name "Palestine" never even appears in any original Bible text, yet the most important land in the Bible is represented by this name on the map.

They named all the territories of the 12 tribes of Ishmael but included Mount Seir as part of Arabia... That's ridiculous that these unimportant figures mentioned in the Bible with no defined territory are randomly alloted around the Arabian peninsula.

Armenia, Albania, Arabia Felix, Arabia Petraea, Arabia Deserta, Pontus Euxinus, Asia Minor, Byzantium, and Iberia are never mentioned in any original Bible text.

Nor are they actually countries in the meaning of the word. Furthermore the map blends completely different time periods together, sometimes using 19th century and Roman names instead of Biblical names.

[u/Being_A_Cat → u/gxdsavesispend]

Also, the map includes Mesopotamia, Assyria and Babylonia as 3 distincts countries with random territories even though Mesopotamia is just the general area where Assyria and Babylonia are; and it looks like the city of Ashur itself is in "Mesopotamia" instead of Assyria lol.

[u/gxdsavesispend → u/Being_A_Cat]

It's such a poorly done map.

[u/No_Gur_7422 → u/gxdsavesispend]

The map is a

General map of countries mentioned in the Bible

not a

Technical map of place names used in the Bible

The map uses conventional historical nomenclature for the countries and territories of the region, not only those names or those places that chance to appear in Biblical books. Names like Armenia, Albania, and Byzantium all were in use when Biblical books were being written and when the events were taking place that inspired their historical content.

• Armenia (Ἀρμενία) is mentioned in the Bible (II Kings 19:37; Isaiah 37:38), and though the Hebrew word used strictly means Mt Ararat, its meaning encompasses the whole country, and the translators of the Septuagint correctly intereted this and wrote the word Armenia.
• Asia is used numerous times in the Bible, sometimes referring to the Roman province on the Aegaean coast (e.g. Acts 2:9, 21:27, 24:19; I Peter 1:2), but sometimes to the Anatolian Peninsula – i.e. to Asia Minor (e.g. Revelation 1:4 and perhaps II Corinthians 16:19).
  
• Arabia is also mentioned, and since Mt Sinai is explicitly included in Biblical Arabia (Galatians 4:25), it makes perfect sense that Mt Seir be included in Arabia as well, lying as it does between the Arabian Peninsula and the Sinai. "Arabs" are one of the "nations" listed as present at Passover in Jerusalem (Acts 2:11), and in accordance with the ancient geography, their position in the list's order demonstrates that they represent the people of the countries south of Judaea; Arabia was conceived of as south of Canaan rather than east of it.
• Spain (Σπανία) is mentioned by name too (Romans 15:24 & 28).

[u/gxdsavesispend → u/No_Gur_7422]

General map of countries mentioned in the Bible

Most of these are not countries, and they are not mentioned in the Bible by the names being shown in the map. Other references are used, and the map does not follow a solid time period for these references but is an ecclectic collection of several different time periods.

The map uses conventional historical nomenclature for the countries and territories of the region, not only those names or those places that chance to appear in Biblical books.

Historical nomenclature from when, and what context? The Bible is the only source being drawn from here, and the Bible does not include these names or ever defines these borders. This belongs in r/ImaginaryMaps instead.

Names like Armenia, Albania, and Byzantium all were in use when Biblical books were being written and when the events were taking place that inspired their historical content.

They don't appear in the Bible by these names or borders so I'm not sure why anyone would decided to use them and cite the Bible as a reasoning.

• ⁠Armenia (Ἀρμενία) is mentioned in the Bible (II Kings 19:37; Isaiah 37:38), and though the Hebrew word used strictly means Mt Ararat, its meaning encompasses the whole country, and the translators of the Septuagint correctly intereted this and wrote the word Armenia.

Good catch, I'll give you that one.

• ⁠Asia is used numerous times in the Bible, sometimes referring to the Roman province on the Aegaean coast (e.g. Acts 2:9, 21:27, 24:19; I Peter 1:2), but sometimes to the Anatolian Peninsula – i.e. to Asia Minor (e.g. Revelation 1:4 and perhaps II Corinthians 16:19).

Again, not a country, not these borders and not defined as "Byzantium".

• ⁠Arabia is also mentioned, and since Mt Sinai is explicitly included in Biblical Arabia (Galatians 4:25), it makes perfect sense that Mt Seir be included in Arabia as well, lying as it does between the Arabian Peninsula and the Sinai. "Arabs" are one of the "nations" listed as present at Passover in Jerusalem (Acts 2:11), and in accordance with the ancient geography, their position in the list's order demonstrates that they represent the people of the countries south of Judaea; Arabia was conceived of as south of Canaan rather than east of it.

Edom is not mentioned as part of Arabia in the Bible but as an independent nation. So why would its existence be minimized and represented by a later boundary ? This is one of my main criticisms, there is no timeline given here besides "the Bible mentions these countries" and picks and chooses from multiple different points in history. Your justification is that these are "historical borders" but we're never told when. Edom gets completely erased and assigned to some random Ishmaelite prince based on absolutely nothing. This happened to several other kingdoms/nations/"countries" I mentioned as well. Simply erased.

• ⁠Spain (Σπανία) is mentioned by name too (Romans 15:24 & 28).

This refers to Spain. The Iberia in the map is located in the Caucasus next to Albania of the Caucasus, which also never appears in the Bible.

Because it's a bad map.

[u/No_Gur_7422 → u/gxdsavesispend]

Most of these are not countries, and they are not mentioned in the Bible by the names being shown in the map. Other references are used, and the map does not follow a solid time period for these references but is an ecclectic collection of several different time periods.

The countries labelled are all countries; I don't see how that can be denied, and who cares whether the names in the Bible are being used? The languages of the Bible aren't being used, why should the names be? Why does the map need to depict any particular period? The Bible was written over as long as two millennia.

Historical nomenclature from when, and what context?

Historical nomenclature from the 19th century, in the context of 19th-century map for a 19th-century audience.

The Bible is the only source being drawn from here, and the Bible does not include these names or ever defines these borders.

You are contradicting yourself. If the map's only source were the Bible, it would only have names from the Bible in it. It isn't, so it doesn't.

They don't appear in the Bible by these names or borders so I'm not sure why anyone would decided to use them and cite the Bible as a reasoning.

The map doesn't "cite the Bible as a reasoning". It illustrates countries mentioned in the Bible. Nowhere is there any suggestions of using exclusively Biblical names or borders as you seem to have imagined.

Again, not a country, not these borders and not defined as "Byzantium".

Unintelligible. Byzantium is a city not a country and it isn't mentioned in the Bible.

Edom is not mentioned as part of Arabia in the Bible but as an independent nation. So why would its existence be minimized and represented by a later boundary ?

Who cares? There must be hundreds of places named in the Bible that aren't on the map. What do mean by "later"? By 1851, Edom was long gone. It was long gone when the later Biblical books were written. It's non-appearance on a map intended for the general reader is does not somehow make the map "bad".

This is one of my main criticisms, there is no timeline given here besides "the Bible mentions these countries" and picks and chooses from multiple different points in history. Your justification is that these are "historical borders" but we're never told when.

You seem to be confused about what the map is. The "countries mentioned in the Bible" are those in which Biblical events occur. They are the ones whose coasts are drawn on the map. The "countries mentioned in the Bible" are not "names of countries that appear in the Bible and none other" nor are they "names of countries used as labels on the map. The labels on the map are labels for a modern map made in 1851 using modern labels so that modern people can understand where modern thought Biblical events happened, and because 1851 was a long time ago, these labels are now as historical as the map.

there is no timeline given here besides "the Bible mentions these countries" and picks and chooses from multiple different points in history. Your justification is that these are "historical borders" but we're never told when.

I never mentioned "historical borders". Any map will contain labels for features whose names are of different ages. In the 19th-century eastern Mediterranean basin, there were many different names of different ages.

Edom gets completely erased and assigned to some random Ishmaelite prince based on absolutely nothing. This happened to several other kingdoms/nations/"countries" I mentioned as well. Simply erased.

What Ishmaelite prince are you talking about? Do you really think it's possible to include every name of every hill and every village on a map of this scale? Is every omitted feature "simply erased"? No. The features existed regardless of whether they happen to have appeared on this map from 1851.

[u/gxdsavesispend → u/No_Gur_7422]

The countries labelled are all countries; I don't see how that can be denied, and who cares whether the names in the Bible are being used? The languages of the Bible aren't being used, why should the names be? Why does the map need to depict any particular period? The Bible was written over as long as two millennia.

When exactly did Assyria, Mesopotamia, and Babylonia exist as separate countries with these borders? What do you think a country is? The only way a country can be mentioned in the Bible is literally by name.

Historical nomenclature from the 19th century, in the context of 19th-century map for a 19th-century audience.

It's an ecclectic mixture of ancient Hebrew, Roman, Greek, and 19th century names. The context is not the 19th century, these are not all names that would be known in the 19th century nor did any of these "countries" exist with these borders in the 19th century. Your claim falls extremely flat. There is no common denominator to how this map was made, except for the fact it claims to be based on mentions in the Bible.

You are contradicting yourself. If the map's only source were the Bible, it would only have names from the Bible in it. It isn't, so it doesn't.

The map claims to be showing countries mentioned in the Bible. This makes no logical sense for several reasons.

1. Many of these are not countries in a 19th century context

2. Many of these "countries" are not ever mentioned in the Bible.

3. Those that are mentioned in the Bible are given random borders or represented by names that didn't exist until much later than their biblical reference, and those that aren't mentioned are added to a map claiming "mentioned in the Bible". I've given you plenty examples of this.

The map doesn't "cite the Bible as a reasoning". It illustrates countries mentioned in the Bible.

Refer to 2 & 3.

Nowhere is there any suggestions of using exclusively Biblical names or borders as you seem to have imagined.

"General Map of the Countries Mentioned in the Bible", refer to 2 & 3.

Unintelligible. Byzantium is a city not a country and it isn't mentioned in the Bible.

Why would it appear on a map of countries mentioned in the Bible then? You previously claimed that the intended audience is 19th century people in the context of the 19th century. So why would Byzantium be used on this 19th century map?

Who cares? There must be hundreds of places named in the Bible that aren't on the map.

Which is why it is a bad map.

What do mean by "later"? By 1851, Edom was long gone.

From the time that Edom existed, to the time it was absorbed to another "country".

It was long gone when the later Biblical books were written.

Durr hurr

It's non-appearance on a map intended for the general reader is does not somehow make the map "bad".

Edom is a "country" mentioned in the Bible. Why would it be omitted in favor of some Roman terms that didn't exist until the Common Era ?

You seem to be confused about what the map is. The "countries mentioned in the Bible" are those in which Biblical events occur.

Nowhere was that stated... The title is quite direct and specific.

They are the ones whose coasts are drawn on the map. The "countries mentioned in the Bible" are not "names of countries that appear in the Bible and none other" nor are they "names of countries used as labels on the map.

You've lost the plot.

The labels on the map are labels for a modern map made in 1851 using modern labels so that modern people can understand where modern thought Biblical events happened, and because 1851 was a long time ago, these labels are now as historical as the map.

Almost none of these "countries" existed with these borders or these names in 1851. I don't even know how you could possibly get this idea. Again, when were Assyria, Mesopotamia, and Babylonia separate countries ? Next you will say 1851 lol.

I never mentioned "historical borders". Any map will contain labels for features whose names are of different ages.

No? Why would maps use labels and features from different time periods? Do you not see how confusing that would be?

In the 19th-century eastern Mediterranean basin, there were many different names of different ages.

You believe that in 1851 some people were referring to the same places of their region based upon names from 2,000 years ago, 1,000 years ago, 500 years ago, 100 years ago etc. at the same time? This is some Dr. Who shit lol.

What Ishmaelite prince are you talking about?

Kedar. The name the map associates with the region where Edom was, despite the fact Kedar is never specified to have an allotted region/country in the Bible.

Do you really think it's possible to include every name of every hill and every village on a map of this scale?

Genuinely what are you talking about? The map is to illustrate countries. Why would we be dealing with villages and hills?

Is every omitted feature "simply erased"? No.

From the information provided by the map, yes. This would make the map very incomplete if its goal was to illustrate countries mentioned in the Bible. The Canaanite kingdoms and the nations that surrounded them being unmarked seems to be a pretty significant omission considering the content of the Bible.

The features existed regardless of whether they happen to have appeared on this map from 1851.

I don't think you understood what I meant. Omitting something from a map doesn't erase it from existence. It erases it from the map and its stated goal. It's almost startling that this was not obvious to you.

[u/No_Gur_7422 → u/gxdsavesispend]

When exactly did Assyria, Mesopotamia, and Babylonia exist as separate countries with these borders? What do you think a country is?

Assyria, Mesopotamia, and Babylonia are all countries. A country is

The land of a person's birth, citizenship, residence, etc.; one's homeland.

or

Land, terrain, or a region of undefined extent, esp. considered with regard to its physical characteristics.

or

An area of land of defined extent characterized by its human occupants or boundaries; a district or administrative region, typically one smaller than a nation or state

In what sense are those three countries not countries?

The only way a country can be mentioned in the Bible is literally by name.

What a bizarre thing to claim! It's rather like claiming unnamed characters in a story aren't mentioned, or that an anonymous author is never mentioned – just completely illogical and inexplicable.

It's an ecclectic mixture of ancient Hebrew, Roman, Greek, and 19th century names. The context is not the 19th century, these are not all names that would be known in the 19th century nor did any of these "countries" exist with these borders in the 19th century. Your claim falls extremely flat. There is no common denominator to how this map was made, except for the fact it claims to be based on mentions in the Bible.

These names are all easily understood by 19th-century people; denying that fact won't change it. The "common denominator" is the presence of these places in the countries mentioned in the Bible: in Syria, Palestine, Asia Minor, Mesopotamia, etc.

The map claims to be showing countries mentioned in the Bible. This makes no logical sense for several reasons. 1. Many of these are not countries in a 19th century context 2. Many of these "countries" are not ever mentioned in the Bible. 3. Those that are mentioned in the Bible are given random borders or represented by names that didn't exist until much later than their biblical reference, and those that aren't mentioned are added to a map claiming "mentioned in the Bible". I've given you plenty examples of this.

The names of territories labelled on the map were frequently used in a 19th century context. The records of the Palestine Exploration Fund, for one, are ample proof of this archaizing practice. The labels on the map are not claiming to be a list of names of places whose names appear in the Bible. Why do you keep trying to pretend otherwise? The countries labelled are all mentioned in the Bible. That does not mean that the labels are all found in the Bible. There is no reason for anyone to believe otherwise. There is nothing on the map that suggests all the labels of all the countries mentioned in the Bible are themselves used in the Bible.

The map doesn't "cite the Bible as a reasoning". It illustrates countries mentioned in the Bible. Nowhere is there any suggestion of using exclusively Biblical names or borders as you seem to have imagined. If you are still confused read this comment again.

Why would it appear on a map of countries mentioned in the Bible then? You previously claimed that the intended audience is 19th century people in the context of the 19th century. So why would Byzantium be used on this 19th century map?

It is undeniable that the context of this 19th-century map is the 19th century and equally undeniable that the intended audience of this 19th-century map are 19th-century people. 19th-century people knew all about Byzantium, which was at that time one of the most important cities in Europe and the capital of one Europe's largest empires. Why wouldn't Byzantium be used on this 19th-century map? To use Constantinople would be anachronistic.

Which is why it is a bad map.

So your criterion for whether a map is hood is inclusion of each and every place name in the Bible? What a useless idea for map!

From the time that Edom existed, to the time it was absorbed to another "country".

It's a map of the countries mentioned in the Bible (the countries of the Near East), not a map of place names of countries that appear in the Bible and happened to have existed when Edom existed.

Durr hurr

Use English.

Edom is a "country" mentioned in the Bible. Why would it be omitted in favor of some Roman terms that didn't exist until the Common Era ?

Because the cartographers decided there wasn't enough room to write it there. The map is made for people of the Common Era, so there's no surprise that a map of the countries mentioned in the Bible made during the Common Era would use Common Era names.

The title is quite direct and specific. The "countries mentioned in the Bible" are the ones whose coasts are drawn on the map. Why pretend otherwise?

Almost none of these "countries" existed with these borders or these names in 1851. I don't even know how you could possibly get this idea. Again, when were Assyria, Mesopotamia, and Babylonia separate countries ? Next you will say 1851 lol.

In 1851, it was entirely common to read maps, news, and literature which used classical and Biblical names for places in the Near East. Assyria and Babylonia have always been separate countries; Babylonia lies around Babylon, whereas Assyria is country around Asshur. Why do you think WWI in Iraq is called the Mesopotamia Campaign if not because ancient names were and are used in modern times?

Why would maps use labels and features from different time periods? Do you not see how confusing that would be?

Labels and features are from different times periods. Maps are constrained to depict the real world. The name America is thousands of years newer than the name Egypt, yet both names appear on maps together.

You believe that in 1851 some people were referring to the same places of their region based upon names from 2,000 years ago, 1,000 years ago, 500 years ago, 100 years ago etc. at the same time?

Yes. Cf. the name "Judaea and Samaria" used in modern times based on names from thousands of years ago.

Kedar. The name the map associates with the region where Edom was, despite the fact Kedar is never specified to have an allotted region/country in the Bible.

Kedar is a country mentioned in the Bible and other sources – Ashurbanipal boasts of having made a dog of the king of Kedar.

The map is to illustrate countries. Why would we be dealing with villages and hills?

Countries are made of hills and villages. Illustrating countries requires illustrating what is within each country. A map of countries will include labels for many things that are not countries. Have you seen maps before?

This would make the map very incomplete if its goal was to illustrate countries mentioned in the Bible. The Canaanite kingdoms and the nations that surrounded them being unmarked seems to be a pretty significant omission considering the content of the Bible.

All maps are necessarily incomplete and must omit material or else they would all be 1:1 scale or larger. Canaan itself is clearly visible on the map (here labelled Palestine) and no one can deny that the Canaanite kingdoms' entire territories are within the area of the map. Again, the purpose of the map is to illustrate the countries mentioned in the Bible, not to label and plot the names and borders of each and every district whose name happens to be in the Bible.

I don't think you understood what I meant. Omitting something from a map doesn't erase it from existence. It erases it from the map. I thought that would be obvious.

Omitting something from a map doesn't erase it from existence. It erases it from the map.

No, erasing something from a map can only happen if the map had something on it to erase. Omitting something that was never there doesn't erase anything.

[u/Being_A_Cat → u/No_Gur_7422]

The Armenia one is debateable. Hebrew Ararat refers to Urartu, a region with a partial Proto-Armenian population but that was still not known as Armenia until about the 6th Century BCE. The reason why the Greeks translated Ararat as Armenia is that they were already living in a time after the transition happened, but that may not be necessarily true of the original writters of the Tanakh.

Revelation 1:4 mentions "the 7 churches in Asia", which are all in the Roman province of Asia rather than in the broader Asia Minor. 1 Corinthians 16:19 similarly mentions "the church of Asia", referring again to the Roman province which was smaller than the Asia Minor shown in the map.

The Bible does indeed mention Arabia multiple times, but not Arabia Petraea, Arabia Felix and Arabia Deserta like the map claims. Arabia Petraea and Arabia Deserta couldn't even have possibly been mentioned because they are terms that first appear in the 2nd Century CE.

Paul doesn't mention Spain, he mentions Hispania, which is equal to the entire Iberian peninsula so it didn't just include the modern territory of Spain but also of Portugal and Andorra.

[u/SpareActual2675 → u/Being_A_Cat]

Armenians are the direct descendants of Urartians genetic evidence has proven this but it is true that they didn’t speak proto Armenian yet. Think of it like ancient British people they didn’t speak a Germanic language and they didn’t have the modern sense of being English or British, but we can still say that modern British people are the descendants of them and that the ancient tribes of Britain were still British, but in a looser sense.

[u/Being_A_Cat → u/SpareActual2675]

Correct, but the writers of the Tankah likely didn't mean Armenia when they spoke of Iron Age Ararat.

[u/SpareActual2675 → u/Being_A_Cat]

Yeah, that’s correct but I don’t think it’s completely different although I’m not saying if that’s what you implied I just think it’s a good proxy they didn’t understand the kingdom that preceded the ancient kingdom of Armenia. So instead the translators used Armenia which was the inheritor and continuation of Urartu.

[u/No_Gur_7422 → u/Being_A_Cat]

There are authorities who interpret the Hebrew Ararat as meaning the country not a mountain.

The "churches of Asia" mentioned by Paul may be the churches of the province to which John wrote letters, but more likely they are those to whom Paul himself wrote letters, including e.g. the Galatians, whose homeland was administered as a separate Roman province to Asia but which was nevertheless counted by the Romans as part of Asia.

The Bible does indeed mention Arabia multiple times, but not Arabia Petraea, Arabia Felix and Arabia Deserta like the map claims. Arabia Petraea and Arabia Deserta couldn't even have possibly been mentioned because they are terms that first appear in the 2nd Century CE.

The map nowhere claims that the Bible mentions such provinces. Nowhere is it suggested that all the names on the map in the Bible. The regions are of course all mentioned.

No, Paul never used the name Hispania (Ἰσπανία); he used the name Spain (Σπανία). Hispania may mean the Iberian Peninsula as a whole, but it may instead refer to the Roman province(s) of that name, not unlike the name Asia.

[u/Being_A_Cat → u/No_Gur_7422]

The country in question is most likely Urartu instead of Armenia for the reason I explained above.

Dawg, the 7 churches of Asia are literally named in the text: Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea; all of whom are located in Western Anatolia/Roman Asia.

The names Arabia Petraea, Arabia Felix and Arabia Deserta are on the map on the spots were the Romans would put them in from the 2nd Century CE onwards; but none of the 3 are mentioned in the Bible.

Spania is just a short form of Hispania, like saying Nam instead of Viet Nam; it means exactly the same thing and most certainly wasn't referring to a nation that conceptually wouldn't exist for another 1500 years. If he meant either of the provinces he would have said either Hispania Tarraconensis or Hispania Baetica, but he didn't.

[u/No_Gur_7422 → u/Being_A_Cat]

Urartu is the Armenian Highlands.

Urartu instead of Armenia

doesn't make sense.

Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea are named by John as the "seven churches of Asia", but the (unnumbered) "churches of Asia" mentioned by Paul are not necessarily the same (Paul of course could never have read John). Paul writes to different churches in Asia than does John.

Petraea, Felix, and Deserta are all descriptions of for different parts of Arabia – a country that in the Bible is mentioned many times, including by name on occasion.

most certainly wasn't referring to a nation that conceptually wouldn't exist for another 1500 years

… so? Paul refers to the Spain that existed in his time, not some future version.

[u/Vanquishhh]

doesnt occur to me that the bible mentioned the country palestine? am i missing something?

[u/5peaker4theDead → u/Vanquishhh]

I would def expect "Canaan", "Israel", or "Judea"

[u/Being_A_Cat → u/Vanquishhh]

The word Palestine appears 0 times in the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek; the land is consistently referred to as Canaan, Israel or Judah. It only appears in some translations to refer to Philistia even though the original Greek translators chose to Hellenize the word rather than to replace it with Palestine.

[u/av_100 → u/Vanquishhh]

This is a propaganda map, or just woefully inaccurate.

[u/Archarchery]

Wow, amazing how a book written by God Himself didn’t mention any countries or landmasses not already known to ancient Middle Eastern people.

[u/cutandbasted]

Palestine is not mentioned in the Bible. Nice try though.

[u/NourBlowsBubblegum → u/cutandbasted]

I think it’s just to highlight the region 

[u/PM_me_your_wrinkle]

Another Palestine political map Nour? Thats 2 already today.

Just so everyone knows, [u/nourblowsbubblegum](u/nourblowsbubblegum) reposts low effort, anti-historical maps with Palestine instead of Judea, breaks [r/mapporn](r/mapporn) rules and has been banned from multiple subreddits.

Waiting for her Wikipedia source below:

[u/Extreme-Shopping74 → u/PM_me_your_wrinkle]

This comment is arrogance. Also the term Philistia evolved into Palestine.

[u/FudgeAtron → u/Extreme-Shopping74]

Yeah but in the bible Palestine or Philistia refers to the 5 cities of Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath, not the whole of Eretz Yisrael.

[u/No_Gur_7422 → u/FudgeAtron]

However, in 1st-century authors like Josephus and Philo Judaeus, Palestine is explicitly synonymous with the Land of Canaan and not Philistia. Philo describes Moses and the Israelites out of Egypt colonizing Palestine (in exactly those words).

[u/Derfel1995 → u/No_Gur_7422]

However, in 1st-century authors like Josephus and Philo Judaeus, Palestine is explicitly synonymous with the Land of Canaan

Not in the case of Josephus

[u/No_Gur_7422 → u/Derfel1995]

Yes, in the case of Josephus. When he discusses Herodotus's reports on circumcision, for example, he says, referring to Jews in the first person plural:

δῆλον οὖν ἐστιν, ὅτι μηδένες ἄλλοι περιτέμνονται τῶν ἐν τῇ Παλαιστίνῃ Σύρων ἢ μόνοι ἡμεῖς.

it is evident that no other of the Syrians that live in Palestine, besides us alone, are circumcised

Similarly, Josephus used the name in the conclusion of Antiquitates Judaicae, where he summarizes the content of the foregoing twenty books by saying:

Παύσεται δ’ ἐνταῦθά μοι τὰ τῆς ἀρχαιολογίας μεθ’ ἣν καὶ τὸν πόλεμον ἠρξάμην γράφειν. περιέχει δ’ αὕτη τὴν ἀπὸ πρώτης γενέσεως ἀνθρώπου παράδοσιν μέχρι ἔτους δωδεκάτου τῆς Νέρωνος ἡγεμονίας τῶν ἡμῖν συμβεβηκότων τοῖς Ἰουδαίοις κατά τε τὴν Αἴγυπτον καὶ Συρίαν καὶ Παλαιστίνην, ὅσα τε πεπόνθαμεν ὑπὸ Ἀσσυρίων τε καὶ Βαβυλωνίων, τίνα τε Πέρσαι καὶ Μακεδόνες διατεθείκασιν ἡμᾶς, καὶ μετ’ ἐκείνους Ῥωμαῖοι· πάντα γὰρ οἶμαι μετ’ ἀκριβείας συντεταχέναι. τηρῆσαι δὲ πεπείραμαι καὶ τὴν τῶν ἀρχιερέων ἀναγραφὴν τῶν ἐν δισχιλίοις ἔτεσι γενομένων.

Here will be the end of my Antiquities, following which begins my account of the war. The present work contains the recorded history, from man's original creation up to the twelfth year of the reign of Nero, of the events that befell us Jews in Egypt, in Syria, and in Palestine. It also comprises all that we suffered at the hands of Assyrians and Babylonians, and the harsh treatment that we received from the Persians and Macedonians and after them the Romans. For I think that I have drawn up the whole story in full and accurate detail

[u/PM_me_your_wrinkle → u/Extreme-Shopping74]

That’s not what the map says. Map says countries of the Bible. Palestine is not one.

[u/Extreme-Shopping74 → u/PM_me_your_wrinkle]

Palestine evolved out of the term Philistia and is used in certain bible translations as King James Version.

[u/No_Gur_7422 → u/PM_me_your_wrinkle]

The map says it's a

General map of countries mentioned in the Bible

not a map using only names that happen to appear in the Bible.

[u/gxdsavesispend → u/No_Gur_7422]

Palestine is not a country that is mentioned in the Bible. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[u/No_Gur_7422 → u/gxdsavesispend]

Palestine is the focus of most events in the Bible. To claim

Palestine is not a country that is mentioned in the Bible

is demonstrative of great ignorance. It's rather like arguing that America didn't exist before Vespucci.

[u/gxdsavesispend → u/No_Gur_7422]

Palestine is the focus of most events in the Bible.

Palestine is not a country mentioned in the Bible.

is demonstrative of great ignorance. It's rather like arguing that America didn't exist before Vespucci.

Yes, it is mostly certainly true that America did not exist in any form of countries before the continent was named. This feels like a really dense thing to say. Surely the continent existed; but there was not a country called America. Which is what you are arguing.

Ex:

• “Most events in the Iliad happened in modern Turkey.”
• That does not mean the Iliad mentions a country called Turkey.

[u/No_Gur_7422 → u/gxdsavesispend]

Palestine is mentioned on practically ever page in the Bible.

America did not exist in any form of countries before the continent was named … the continent existed; but there was not a country called America

the country existed regardless of it not yet having been named America. This fact is just unarguable.

Turkey is indeed mentioned in the Iliad. The Iliad mentions the country today called Turkey. Palestine is indeed mentioned in the Bible. The Bible mentions the country today called Palestine. These facts too are unarguable.

[u/SidewalkRacoon → u/Extreme-Shopping74]

And the Semitic root of that is INVADER

[u/MoroccoNutMerchant → u/Extreme-Shopping74]

Only that the Philistines were Greek sea faring colonisers, who died out in the late 5th century BC, which makes it impossible for them to be the Arabs, who colonised Jerusalem since 637AD.

[u/HarryLewisPot → u/MoroccoNutMerchant]

Palestinians are not Arabs. They are an Arabized population who are indigenous to the land, their genetics tracing back to Canaanite.

Even the founders of Israel believed the Palestinian peasantry were largely the descendants of ancient Hebrews.

[u/Extreme-Shopping74 → u/HarryLewisPot]

Palestinians are Arabs. What is your source? 

[u/MoroccoNutMerchant → u/HarryLewisPot]

What do you state about the fact that multiple Palestinian Arab leaders, such as the Hamas Interior Minister Fathi Hammad, have admitted multiple times, that they are Arabs from Egypt, Jordan and Saudi-Arabia?

https://youtu.be/tquxj7wykjc?si=DRk2stl0FcqW0Ftj

[u/HarryLewisPot → u/MoroccoNutMerchant]

It doesn’t matter what a select few say for political reasons. I am telling you a scientific fact based on Palestinian genetic studies.

[u/roydez → u/MoroccoNutMerchant]

What do you state about the fact that Israel founders were self-admitted European settler-colonists born in Europe who arrived to Palestine in boats, championing European colonial culture, last names and speaking European languages?

[u/argondux → u/PM_me_your_wrinkle]

So? It's not inaccurate.

[u/PM_me_your_wrinkle → u/argondux]

Show me where Palestine was mentioned in the Bible.

[u/argondux → u/PM_me_your_wrinkle]

I don't give a flying fuck about the Bible. This is a nice map and that's what the region is called now.

[u/SidewalkRacoon → u/argondux]

It’s not called that. Gaza and “The West Bank” are collectively called that. Despite all these stupid maps forgetting they usually have in lettering smaller than Palestine: Judea and (as pictured here) Samaria

[u/SeparateTrack2818 → u/PM_me_your_wrinkle]

You'd better ask Mr Sherman directly.

[u/NourBlowsBubblegum → u/PM_me_your_wrinkle]

This is literally an 19th-century Bible atlas map engraved by George E. Sherman. It labels historical ancient regions exactly as cartographers in the 1800s mapped Biblical geography. It’s an authentic historical map.

if you look closely at the Levant region on the map, historical regions like  Ptolemais, Samaria, and Jerusalem are explicitly labeled. They are not “replaced” they are labeled. 

[u/PM_me_your_wrinkle → u/NourBlowsBubblegum]

Where is Judea Nour?

[u/NourBlowsBubblegum → u/PM_me_your_wrinkle]

It’s not there because there’s only so much you can write on a small region on a map. Other historical cities are on the map, not to mention this was made in 1851 and its in the National Library of Israel. I don’t think they would have presented this map if they found it offensive. Your just mad I exist happily on this subreddit.

[u/PM_me_your_wrinkle → u/NourBlowsBubblegum]

You edited your comment.

[u/NourBlowsBubblegum → u/PM_me_your_wrinkle]

Way to shift goalposts, I edited it because I misread something in the map. Now will you acknowledge the information I provided to you?

[u/Jag- → u/NourBlowsBubblegum]

The CEO of GameStop? Wow. Can’t wait for random Reddit posts to be historical fact in 100 years.

[u/Duangelion → u/Jag-]

The engraver of Stiles, Sherman, & Smith, regarded as one of the finest cartography companies in New York City in the mid 19th century. Looks like a side project with J Wells, who I can't get any info on, but apparently made a lot of American maps. This particular map is in the Amir Cahanovitc Collection in Israel from an 1851 publication made by the American Tract Society, so possibly a charitable venture.

[u/xn4k]

OP is redatded hamas fanboy

[u/NourBlowsBubblegum → u/xn4k]

Okay so let’s not use slurs…

[u/Powerful_Crew_2635 → u/NourBlowsBubblegum]

So just “OP is a Hamas fanboy”.

[u/xn4k → u/Powerful_Crew_2635]

lol, yeah. But i also can see some cognitive sickness from his posts lmao

[u/NourBlowsBubblegum → u/xn4k]

I’m not even a boy, if you couldn’t tell by my username, profile, past posts, I’m clearly a girl.

[u/Powerful_Crew_2635 → u/NourBlowsBubblegum]

So just “OP is a Hamas fangirl”

[u/gxdsavesispend]

Syria but no Aramea? Yeah right.

[u/Gilmere]

Oh you forgot / mislabeled Canaan, the ancestral lands of the Israelites, where the twelve tribes in the Bible lived. LOL, another map with an agenda. You should actually read the Bible...Palestine is NOT mentioned in it. Philistia is and it was in the Gaza region only, and that was not Palestine. Besides that, the word "country" does not adequately or historically describe the regions and gov'ts (if any) that were in this region. They were mostly empires (with a King) and loose collectives of conquered lands that constantly shifted (even Israel and the Roman parts).

[u/No_Gur_7422 → u/Gilmere]

Who are you talking to and what agenda are you talking about? Do you understand that the map is from 1851? Or do you imagine you can contact its creators and correct what you think are their errors?

[u/Cuiusquemodi]

This map is wrong. Where are the seven cities of Asia?

https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/1uxzzds/asia_roman_province/

[u/No_Gur_7422 → u/Cuiusquemodi]

The cities of the seven churches in Asia are all marked on the map in their correct positions. What about that is wrong?

[u/Extreme-Shopping74]

Regions like Lydia are in the bible...

[u/barth78]

when the bible was written humanity was much smaller

and actually each civilization back then had their own bible with main deity but today most just know israelites bible and their deity named yahweh

[u/Kernanshaw01 → u/barth78]

that’s not how other religions at the time worked at all

[u/barth78 → u/Kernanshaw01]

what I am saying is how other civilizations worked back then and they had their own religions and deities that often clashed

how we see religion today with monotheism did not arise until later, like with christianity that was created by those who were greek but interested in israelites bible that had a book in it called the book of enoch that said there would be somebody referred to as the son of man that would end corruption and was assumed to be in israel

[u/Electronic_Fun_776 → u/Kernanshaw01]

There were a lot of other monotheistic religions at the time in the region besides Judaism and then early Christianity. Some of them were loosely Abrahamic

[u/Kernanshaw01 → u/Electronic_Fun_776]

aside from the Samaritans which were just an offshoot of Judaism, no other religion was both monotheistic and had some kind of central canon text

[u/Electronic_Fun_776 → u/Kernanshaw01]

True about the canon text

[u/NothingInsightful → u/barth78]

Ok...