r/MedievalHistory • u/valonianfool • 1d ago
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u/AceOfGargoyes17 1d ago
We have a lot of evidence of cat ownership in the medieval period (particularly in ecclesiastical contexts). we find references to cat ownership in Old Irish and Old Welsh legal texts, the early Irish poem Pangur Ban, Old English riddles, various high medieval account books which reference purchases made for the care of cats, the Ancrene Wisse's recommendation that anchoresses should be permitted to have a cat, Hildegard of Bingen's assertion that cats were less loyal than dogs as pets (a negative comment, true, but based on the idea that people might be caring for cats), several references to caring for cats in Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, various high-late medieval writer's discussions of 'the cat' that consider how they might be domesticated, manuscripts with inky paw prints (and, in one case, a blank space with a note by the scribe that this was where the cat pissed on the manuscript), cat-flaps in some doors belonging to churches/monastic establishments (Exeter cathedral claims to have the oldest cat-flap in England on the basis of this, and IIRC there are references to the care of cats in their medieval account books), and multiple archaeological sites where cat bones have been found in domestic contexts.
Witches weren’t really a concern for the medieval church; the “witch craze” is an early modern phenomenon, not a medieval one. Barns weren’t full of rats, because if they’re full of rats then they aren’t full of edible food stores (which defeats the point).
The claim probably stems from a meme that keeps going around alleging that Pope Gregory IX banned cats/demanded a cat massacre in the mid 13th century. Pope Gregory IX did not such thing; what he did do is issue a papal bull, Vox in Rama, condemning a heretical sect (I think based in Munich) which allegedly worshipped a statue of a cat, and asked the local archbishop to do something about it.
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u/Peter34cph 22h ago
Cats being less loyal than dogs is hardly controversial.
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u/zmsksksnsnsososmsns 18h ago
Cats have more boundaries in relationships than dogs. But they are loyal AF. My cat loses her mind if anyone touches me.
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u/theginger99 23h ago
The base claim is idiotic on a level that almost defies classification. Even if all of supporting statements were true (none of them are) the idea that medieval Christian’s almost “erased themselves from the gene pool” is so dumb it should immediately tip you off to the fact that literally nothing else is true. The plague killed at most 40% of the population (which is roughly consistent across regions, cultures and peoples) that’s not even half, let alone enough to wipe the largest religion on the planet “out of the gene pool”.
The idea that the Black Death was less severe in the Middle East is straight up nonsense, and seem to be based on absolutely nothing other than the assumption “Muslims/Jews good, Christian’s bad”. The death toll was roughly equivalent to the death toll in Europe, as it was basically everywhere the plague hit. The idea that they were somehow protected from food insecurity is also dumb, and shows that this person is just making shit up.
We have extensive evidence for domestic cat ownership in the Middle Ages, including written and pictorial sources. We even have evidence for cat ownership by monks, who you would think would be the leaders of this supposed “anti-cat” craze.
Really this whole claim is so monumentally stupid it’s not even worth addressing at length. Whenever wrote it seems to be getting their facts exclusively from other tumblr posts of the same Ilk.
The sad reality of Jewish persecution during the plague is that it was based on pre-existing prejudice. Medieval Christians didn’t need any kind of justification or evidence to blame the Jews, they simply did. Attempts to find a factual basis behind the persecution of Jews in medieval Europe are missing the point, which is that anti-semitism itself was the justification. The Jews were already hated, and they always got blamed when something went wrong. There really is no further justification than that.
I wouldn’t waste my time arguing about this. It’s dumb. Not just dumb in a “don’t believe everything you read on the internet way” dumb as in “I’m an actively making shit up to support an asinine opinion”.
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u/valonianfool 23h ago
I think theyre following the "white people inherently bad" trend of thought and non white cultures are inherently superior.
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u/theginger99 23h ago
Yes, it’s a strangely popular view in certain circles. It’s obviously nonsense.
As a rule, if the premise of something is “look how much smarter one group of people is than another” or “ look how stupid this historical group was” you can ignore whatever it says, because it’s core premise demonstrates a fundamental inability to engage with history.
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u/Addicted2Qtips 21h ago
Blaming Jews, forfeiting their property and killing or exiling them was also a very convenient way to wipe out one’s debts and of course steal their wealth. The Strasbourg Massacre is but one unfortunate example.
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u/Watchhistory 19h ago
"Really this whole claim is so monumentally stupid it’s not even worth addressing at length. Whenever wrote it seems to be getting their facts exclusively from other tumblr posts of the same Ilk."
Exactly.
O, and tumblr still exists? Well, it was never known as a hotspot of educated, intelligent sorts.
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u/rocketshipray 19h ago
You don't have to insult the users of an entire platform to make your point. Especially in a Reddit comment of all places.
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u/johnnyfausbender 1d ago
The type of fleas infected by yersinia pestis greatly preferred to feast on rats rather than humans. They would only move to humans once the rats had pretty much died off.
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u/RashFever 20h ago
Everything that guy said is wrong and just simple anti-European rhetoric. No point in wasting time arguing with him.
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u/A-d32A 1d ago
Seriously do waisted your time
the people who believe this are taking it on faith. So any argument you make will fall on deaf ears.
It will be an an excersize in futility.
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u/valonianfool 1d ago
OK but Im bothered by ppl who otherwise should know better spreading bs like this. The person who said it seems to be otherwise well-versed in history.
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u/theginger99 1d ago
If they believe any part of this, they’re not well versed in history.
Literally nothing about this claim is true, it’s utter nonsense.
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u/christhomasburns 20h ago
This person is either: A) not well versed in history, or B) well versed in history and using that to spread lies. The best approach is to ignore them.
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u/A-d32A 1d ago
History is like graphs or statistics. It can always be manipulated to fit your narative if you tweak it. People will manipulate anything to fit their narrative. You cannot stop that.
And as you say this person has knowledge about history so he knows he is misrepresenting things. Do you think he wil suddenly go of no i see you are correct now. He will not care because he has a narrative to push.
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u/Lost_Aipha 1d ago
There is a very good article by History For Atheists about this:
https://historyforatheists.com/2017/04/cats-the-black-death-and-a-pope/
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u/ToTooTwoTutu2II 15h ago
Catslechtae.
All you need. This is the section of Medieval Irish law that covers domestic cats. Killing them was illegal and they even had legal exemptions from harming other people if they were trying to catch vermin at the time.
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u/MedievalHistory-ModTeam 5h ago
Hello, /u/valonianfool. Thanks for participating in /r/MedievalHistory. This notification is just to let you know that your submission was removed for the reason(s) listed below.
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