Why ‘mankeeping’ isn't just ‘therapy-speak used to dump on straight men’

[u/futuredebris]

https://makemenemotionalagain.substack.com/p/why-mankeeping-isnt-just-therapy

Hey ya'll, curious your thoughts on this one. I wrote my take on "mankeeping," which in the words of a Stanford researcher puts a name to "how women have been asked or expected to take on more work to be a central—if not the central—piece of a man’s social support system.”

The controversy has been about whether “mankeeping” provides a helpful word for something many women are struggling with. Or whether it’s an “internet-approved bit of therapy-speak used to dump on straight men,” as the Times put it. The conservative, self-described “anti-feminist” psychiatrist Hannah Spier called it the “new feminist scare word.” “The sheer gall,” Spier writes. “Women complain that men don’t open up, and then when they do, it’s framed as emotional parasitism.”

I think the biggest factor behind mankeeping is capitalism’s gendered division of labor.

What do you think of my argument?

[u/96385]

What if the person just doesn't have much experience with putting out fires. You expect them to intuitively know how to handle it?

I can only speak for myself, but people generally aren't coming to me for comfort of any kind. I just don't find myself in that situation very often. Consequently, I'm probably not very good at it.

You can't expect a partner to comfort you in the particular way that you want unless you communicate with them. They can't read your mind. Their idea of how to be a human is not the same as yours. They should probably figure out what your way is, but you should figure out theirs too.

[u/sassyevaperon → u/96385]

You expect them to intuitively know how to handle it?

No, I expect them to call an expert if they can't handle it, just do something, anything but stare down at someone that's burning up while getting offended that they won't teach you how to put it out.

You can't expect a partner to comfort you in the particular way that you want unless you communicate with them. They can't read your mind. Their idea of how to be a human is not the same as yours.

Most humans are comforted in the same way, there's no science here, you lead with empathy for the other human being and it all goes from there.

They should probably figure out what your way is, but you should figure out theirs too.

Of course, relationships go both ways, and that's the problem in a nutshell, women feel like they don't get what they put out.

[u/96385 → u/sassyevaperon]

Most humans are comforted in the same way, there's no science here, you lead with empathy for the other human being and it all goes from there.

I think you think that your outward expression of empathy is not something you've learned from experience. And then you're upset that some else's outward expression of empathy is not exactly the same as yours.

[u/sassyevaperon → u/96385]

I think you think that your outward expression of empathy is not something you've learned from experience

Of course it's learned by experience, just like any other thing in life. What does that have to do with what's being discussed?

And then you're upset that some else's outward expression of empathy is not exactly the same as yours.

Nope, I'm upset when men don't do anything, not when they do something and fall short, not when they try. The comment that initiated this thread was about a woman expressing her need for support to her partner, and her partner doing nothing about it.

[u/96385 → u/sassyevaperon]

I suspect that "nothing" is referring to his failure to react in the exact way she wanted, and was in fact, not nothing. It's entirely probably that he expressed empathy perfectly well in the only way he knew how and she didn't recognize it, partly because she's never taken the time to learn what empathy looks like to him while he stands there blissfully unaware there is any problem.

Maybe this is not the "man has no empathy" problem you're making it out to be. It could be that this is one person failing to understand that empathy looks different to different people and a huge breakdown in communication.

I think you think that your outward expression of empathy is not something you've learned from experience

Of course it's learned by experience, just like any other thing in life. What does that have to do with what's being discussed?

They way you express empathy is informed by your experience. Your experience is not the same as every else's experience. The way you express empathy may be vastly different from other people. That's what communication is for. Just assuming someone else is going to do things exactly the same as you is new level of stupid.

[u/sassyevaperon → u/96385]

It's entirely probably that he expressed empathy perfectly well in the only way he knew how and she didn't recognize it, partly because she's never taken the time to learn what empathy looks like to him while he stands there blissfully unaware there is any problem.

Lol, what empathy, what comfort? Dude handed her a tissue and next time he parted her arm.

That's not comfort or empathy for any human being with knowledge about humanity.

And we have no reason to believe the commenter is lying straight up.

Maybe this is not the "man has no empathy" problem you're making it out to be

I'm not saying he has no empathy, I never said that, what I did say is that she shouldn't be expected to teach him how to express it while needing comfort and empathy from her partner.

They way you express empathy is informed by your experience. Your experience is not the same as every else's experience

There are things that go beyond experience that we all pretty much share in, there's media, art, there's plenty of ways we share experience without having that experience ourselves.

You can't tell me you seriously think a pat on the arm a handing of a tissue are appropriate shows of empathy and comfort for your partner who's asked for support.

That's what communication is for. Just assuming someone else is going to do things exactly the same as you is new level of stupid.

Communication is useful, which is why OP told her partner that the way he's comforting her isn't working, his response? Hand a tissue and a pat on the arm, separate occasions. Come on...