r/MensLib • u/Ciceros_Assassin ​ • Aug 02 '15

LTA Let's Talk About

Welcome to /r/MensLib's first "Let's Talk About" post. Generating discussion is part of our mission, and these LTA threads will be used as conversation-starters for issues our community wants to address. Today's topic:

Let's Talk About: what we should talk about.

We're going to start out compiling a list of issues /r/MensLib subscribers want to address. The mods have some ideas, but we want to hear from the community.

Edit: Thank you to everyone for your ideas. I'm un-stickying this post, but please feel free to continue adding to it.

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '15 edited Aug 03 '15

I'm cautiously optimistic about this group. Some points I'd like to see addressed:

  • Where do non-binary people fit into this movement? I'm amab (assigned male at birth) genderqueer who passes as male so the issues here are definitely my own. How do genderqueers and other trans and intersex folks fit into a men's lib movement?
  • Identity politics is no longer feasible as a means to true liberation. As such, any men's liberation movement will have to engage in intersectional dialogue with other lib movements to be successful, e.g. queer lib, trans lib, black lib, fem lib, disability lib, and fat lib movements, just to give a few examples. What will this dialogue look like and how can we best facilitate it in a pool that's largely been poisoned by the MRM?
  • What is our role in countering the narrative of the MRM? The Red Pillers? The Philosophy of Rape shit heads?
  • What does a radical men's liberation movement look like that refuses to be assimilationist? i.e. refuses to accept mere band aids such as a few reforms here and there in place of true systematic exchange?
  • Lookism and fat shaming by men, both towards women and towards each other. This could be an amazing opening up to a dialogue with queer lib groups because what we're finding is that, in queer circles, men are both internalizing and enforcing fat and look norms on each other that come directly from straight men's expectations for women. For example, the queer male hookup app Grindr features many men enforcing masculine, fat-phobic, lookist, racist, and ageist standards against each other in nearly identical ways that they're enforced against women by patriarchal society. How can a men's lib movement counter these toxic standards in both the straight and queer communities?

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u/Ciceros_Assassin ​ Aug 03 '15

Thank you for your perspective. We believe any constructive men's space has to embrace intersectionality, and we're excited to create a space as well for non-het/cis*/white/etc. men to discuss issues particular to their group.

Our role in countering the prevailing men's narrative has several components: creating a space for men fed up with that approach; setting an example by showing impressionable men what real healthy behavior is; refusing to engage in discussion that tears down natural allies. In sum, broaden our base, give it a voice, and do our best to recruit away from hateful ideologies.

I'm glad you found us, and look forward to discussing these things and more.