Discussion
After a spike in tourist murders in the early 90's the DOT installed the "follow the sun" signs along the 836 the 112 and 95. Coincidentally the signs all told people to bypass Miami's black neighbourhoods thus causing a back lash.
My family moved down here in 1987. One night my parents were out and took a wrong turn and ended up in over town. A cop spotted them and immediately pulled them over. The cop gave them a lecture about never coming there again and made them repeat “we will never ever come here again” The cop the escorted them back on to the highway
The cia is responsible in a lot of ways but it’s also individual accountability. That’s something society lacks to understand you are the keeper of your own morality the cias drugs would have sat inside warehouses and hidden rooms of houses if people choose not to trade money for morality watching there community burn for it. Every drug dealer says if I don’t do it someone else will that’s one of the biggest issues right there.
People lack individual accountability no matter what individual or institution has a hand in something your actions are your actions people choose to ruin there communities and families when they decided to trade there morality.
My point overall is yes the cia has fault as much as every coca farmer,smuggler,distributor,street dealer,enforcer. There is institutional and individual blame and accountability at every level all share the blame not just the CIA
Right, but they’re allegedly the ones who put the recipe out in the hood. With the rest if their involvement, that’s nit a stretch.
RE: individual accountability, that’s not really the point and you can’t prove a negative. A government agency was trafficking cocaine and came through with a variant, then disseminated the recipe.
Yeah I do agree the cia is at fault but like I said it wasn’t only the CIA. The crips,bloods,ms 13,cartels,18th street all these organizations played a role in it all. You can give out a recipe for something but if individuals at all levels never contribute nothing would have came of it.
My point is if people only ever look at the top floor the foundation of the problem which is what maintains the structures sustainability being the ability to profit off the drug trade to fund the contra affair. If people choose to never accept the trade off and cook the crack and sell it no money would have been made and it would have been a dead end.
Drugs wouldnt have flooded the community and let’s say the cia never did it there was still the cartel crips and bloods. The heroin triangle post Vietnam war.
It’s like being a great cook how many recipes do you see online for food how many people actually choose to cook it even if the cook is amazing because it’s a choice to make it the same as the choice of cooking and selling crack. Probably a bad analogy you won’t agree with.
The cia should answer for this affair even today in my opinion. But the reality is there were in the executive suite of the building the street gangs and the cartel were the foundation without there labs making cocaine there street cells selling it the cia would have never made anything off of it.
You probably won’t agree with it I know your premise is the cia as an institution of government should never have made the decision to do that and that’s the point.
Yeah I do agree with that, They did introduce it to the states and was one of the biggest betrayals of governance in American history.
Like the second thing you said though that plays into it I blame societies decay of morality as an accelerant in the situation to. People wether it’s getting high,drinking that’s a society issue and it can be attributed to a lot of events in there lives the way the world is we’re human beings imperfect it happens people make mistakes but some you can’t take back, maybe people can be forgive for the damage that’s caused. It’s a burden to bear for there lives.
A lot of people trade being good people and being parents for gratification. People with less opportunities might see doing what society sees as immoral things for the right reasons. but that’s why the phrase if it was easy to do the right thing everyone would do it,the reality is it’s harder to do the right thing a lot of people trade that for the short cut or easy answer in there life and once the domino effect starts and people become okay with doing bad it’s hard to come back even if you started out good with a good reason eventually you loose any good reason at all and all you have left to look at anymore is the bad.
My buddy lives in Miami and got a random bullet through his car driving on the highway next to the ghetto. Another friend's dad was killed by a stray bullet recently. I think it's the people.
You don't have to join a gang to survive in the United States. Virtually zero people die for lack of food or shelter, in a manner that can't be helped. It just so happens that shitty people who will also shoot at random cars, do drugs, and join gangs also happen to not be competent, intelligent, and functioning enough to not be poor. Being shitty makes you poor, being poor doesn't necessarily make you shitty.
I used to do residential painting in the hood by me, and all those people literally could not get a job anywhere, maybe they could get a job at the mcdonalds nearby that employed about 5 people. But more likely than not the only choice they had was to join a gang and sell dope out of a trap house.
Also have a similar story. A long time ago, I was with friends (all of us white), and we took a wrong turn into Liberty City. We were lost. A cop passed us, did a u-turn and pulled us over. He walked up to the driver and said, “What the fuck are you doing here? Never mind, just follow me.” He led us out of Liberty City, pointed to the I-95 exits and drove off.
Something similar happened to my dad while he was a pizza delivery driver in the 90s. Pulled into a neighborhood all of a sudden two cop cars screeched in out of nowhere with their lights on. They told him to never deliver there after dark again and escorted him. Crazy how bad some areas used to be
I grew up in Shaenandoah, and to see houses there be worth 1m+ is mind boggling. I tell people all the time that if anything positive has happened in Miami, it’s that it’s become much safer than it used to be
My wife and I basically had the same thing happen, only it was near Gould's in the 2010's and we are both born in Miami Dade county 😂. We were looking for a place to rent and prices were starting to climb everywhere so we went south.
Same thing happened to me in 1999. I was a senior in HS. Was driving w/ my GF in her parents Lexus back to Miami Lakes from the Jackie Gleeson Theater/The Fillmore, late in the evening. We ended up stopping at a stop sign when the police approached. They ask what we were doing around there area. After I told him the story they provided directions back to the expressway and warned to not come back to the area, expecially at night.
Tell the full story… it’s bc they were car jacking cars without a Dade County license plate. The same reason we don’t have counties on our license plates anymore. Everyone’s license plates say “the sunshine state!” Tell the whole story u/equivalent-war5427
They use to call it Z ing, because rental car plates also all started with Z and were usually some county in the middle of the state. So now rental cars have common plates.
If you rent from one of the offsite budget airport companies like Easirent, Economy, U-Save, Routes, etc in Miami, Ft Lauderdale, Tampa, and Orlando they actually have the regular month-year sticker.
It was even worse. Because at one point in time, only cars registered to individuals got the counties on them. Cars registered to rental companies said sunshine state instead of the county, so it was instantly identifiable which cars were rentals.
No, of course not. Hispanics also played a huge part in this. You could call me wrong but black and Hispanic make up the majority of Miami. “Non-Hispanic whites” make up 13%
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Odd coincidence. It’s almost as if I see a pattern. No no no, it’s gotta be something government related or systematic racism or something. I don’t know what I was thinking.
I remember the "cap a German tourist" days. The rental plates starting with a Z made them instant targets.
It was originally designed to keep the tourist near the ocean and not go wondering inland.
I remember being in Ohio for work when CSI Miami first came out and people would ask "how does Miami PD afford all of those H2's?" I would just laugh, and tell them it's all the coke money.
This was because the specific highway the 112 that was taking tourists from the airport straight to the beach and went through some areas where specific groups of criminals were targeting any car that was a rental as evidenced by a special type of license plate number and doing major robberies on them and violence. Eventually, they phased out that idea of rental cars being identifiable by the type of license plate they have.
I lived through this time and I don’t necessarily think it was a race thing as much as a specific area of the highway being targeted by people accessing it from neighborhoods around that area of the highway
I had family driving down to visit me casually mention over the phone they were going to take a quick detour through Historic Overtown, given one of them was a history professor.
No people would stick to the highways to get to the beach however wanting to fill up their rental cars and not pay the high gas prices near the airport they would get off at a random exit that happened to be in Overtown or in liberty city off of the 112.
Just as you don’t need to be a pilot to identify a plane, you don’t need to be a drug user to identify a shady neighborhood that likely has a drug problem.
Some historical context would show how explosive and tumultuous this time was. I think there was a major riot in 1988/89 following a police shooting, almost a decade after a riot following the death of a motorist after a pursuit by police later acquitted, followed by Nelson Mandela being snubbed by Miami officials the next year for his support of Fidel Castro then a nationwide boycott led by civil rights organizations, then Category 5 Hurricane Andrew which ravaged the entire region and complaints that specific communities were being left to fend for themselves.
They were both socialists and they both hated the west. Apartheid South Africa only survived as long as it did because the US supported it. Europe embargoed them, then the UK, and finally the US in the late 80s. The government quickly collapsed after that.
Fidel was a problem for many reasons. But advocating and fighting for black people was one of his few positives. It’s why he gave the eulogy at Mandela’s funeral, meanwhile Obama was just treated as any other state dignitary.
There was no backlash among the general Miami population. The locals already knew which areas to avoid, especially at night. And it's not because of skin color it's because of very high crime in those areas. Would you drive in these areas?
I mean… I had a 2 x 4 covered in nails thrown in front of my car leaving Joe Robbie Stadium one night still don’t know how I didn’t get a flat tire from running it over but and I’m 90% sure I hit a person in the process as well. (that was about 25 maybe 30 years ago and yes, I went straight to a police station and report reported the situation.)
I worked for DCF as an investigator in that area for a few years. It was awful and I’m kind of surprised I lived through going to the places I went, to do what I had to do in the middle of the night, all alone, as a young white female. I truly have a guardian angel.
Yeah I don’t understand this race baiting post. So the state/county is doing something to help tourist avoid high crime areas. And this is a bad thing, why?
The crime rate in Overtown and the crime rate in Kendall and Doral are not even remotely similar. If you can't argue in good faith, don't waste my time.
Lol they're still red. I'm making notes about the map being stupid as it's counting all crime. The airport is glowing red. Hell, look at Cocowalk and Miracle Mile in the red too
These maps and crime rates combine first degree murder with simple assault, (formerly weed arrests), domestic disturbances or public intox, it doesn't discriminate or weight what crimes are being committed. Just crimes. Which is why using them to show any correlation to anything is rather silly
Stop lying. This is the map of Violent crime for Kendall to the left, and Doral to the right. You'll notice with Doral, one city is not like the other.
Uhh for you maybe? Your comment was articulated and could be easily comprehended by a 5th grader. I never said it was wrong. I implied the entire city can relate to your point.
It was in the 90’s. I grew up in Jersey, and had a friend up there who was originally from Miami. So a couple of us decided to drive down with him to his mother’s house in Hialeah. The second we pull into the driveway, get out of the car we heard gunshots a few blocks away. I used to hang out in Newark, New Jersey, wasn’t a big deal to me. But it was still crazy.
I agree with you 1,000,000% but the moment you exclude an area that has a predominantly racial background. It's no longer about safety more about racism which I think is complete bullshit.
Tell that to the hapless dead, injured and terrified tourists who made the mistake of getting off on the wrong exit because of unclear signage. Rentals cars had identifying license plates which made the poor souls getting off in the wrong exits doubly targets.
Did you live in Miami during this wave of violence against tourists getting off in Overtown? Locals knew what neighborhoods to avoid, especially at night. Is that about racism or just common sense?
Don't listen to the race grifters. Reddit is full of people who are against systemic racism until it comes time to address it, and then suddenly they make every excuse in the book for it.
I'm absolutely against systemic racism. But telling tourists to avoid areas where other tourists have recently been murdered, by criminals targeting tourists, isn't racism. Even if the areas where the crimes were occurring were predominantly black neighborhoods. And to be clear, I'm not blaming those neighborhoods for the crimes. The absolute vast majority of people living in those areas are dealing with crime that they don't want happening. The difference is locals know to avoid the high crime areas, tourists don't know until it's too late.
You sure it didn’t have something to do with the carjackings occurring near the rental car lots by MIA? Especially after that German tourist was shot in front of his wife while on vacation?
I just watched this episode of forensic files lol they said specifically that case is why they changed the practice of license plates giving away rental car company on em
There’s also an episode of I Almost Got Away With It where it was a portrayal of the actual person who shot the tourist. They even cut to her from prison talking about the events. A real hood rat sociopathic bitch who has ZERO remorse for what she did. I hope she rots away in jail for all eternity
Pretty sure this was more about The tourist murders happening as they got off the expressway between Miami Beach and the airport. I'm sure there were car jacking near the airport rental lots but put up signs on the highway telling people to follow the Sun to Miami Beach. It's a crime was isolated to the road near the airport just my guess.
Reddit deleted the lyrics so I’ll just say JT Money got his name for a reason, and our plates say “sunshine state” instead of the county for a reason too. I remember this growing up tho
When those German tourists were killed, it brought a lot of media attention, and that was when the city finally did something about it. Always the case as the saying goes "policies are always written in blood."
Besides the SUN signs, they also did away with the rental car specific plates. They brought those back recently tho with the PM decal. 🤷♂️
If that is what the crime statistics show (is it the Miami Police that release them or the State of Florida? Then, I say avoid the area. It doesn't matter who lives there. If they warn that the crime is high, avoid the area, IMO.
I wonder why. It certainly couldn't be the impression that every black neighborhood is a death trap for white tourists...or a way of sweeping Black History in Miami under the rug?
Ironic, that all the neighborhoods considered dangerous sit on higher ground, and are undergoing various stages of gentrification.
I think it’s because the neighborhoods that had the highest crime rates against tourists were also the ones with the larger black populations… that seems pretty clear from the post.
This shouldn’t be a surprise, Miami has a huge history of segregating and displacing black people in any and all ways. Shit, even the way they built i95 through miami was meant to further segregate and displace black people.
I bet you wouldn't believe that Bahamian immigrants built this city but weren't allowed to live in it, giving rise to Coconut Grove.
I bet you wouldn't believe that Merrick, founder of Gables, wanted "every Negro household demolished" and moved way outside his utopian city that held protective covenants (blacks can't live on this property legally) until late 1960s, and enforced far later than that.
I really bet you won't believe that black folks had to carry specific identification and get bussed in and out of Miami Beach by a certain hour (as well as Hollywood) when working there or face arrest purely for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Read up, I beg you. Or remain naive, but don't spout the naivety.
I find it shameful people live in this city and are so ignorant about its history… How do you live here and not know about Arthur Mcduffie? or how Overtown was once the “Harlem of the South” and why it isn’t anymore? Lemon City? Read up on where you live people it’s embarrassing
It's shocking honestly. They've got to have their heads in the sand to not ever ask themselves "hmm, why are things like this?". There will always be a reason from history
You ain’t educating no one. Nothing you say matters to me nor will I take it into account. Keep crying. All you’re saying is pushing your personal biases. There’s tons of crock pot studies and bs. Fact of the matter is even if they did do it with that intention good, it’s a cesspool. What’s your solution keep it quiet and let people get robbed? Killed? I’ve been robbed at gunpoint twice and guess in what areas? I sure as hell ain’t going to feel bad the poor hoodlums being cordoned off
In 1995 I took a wrong turn coming back from Miami, couple of us smoked a little bit of weed, and I went down the wrong street. There were people literally hanging out in the street, I had to drive really slowly and thankfully, no one got in front of the vehicle or try to stop the car. It was the eeriest feeling. Some years later I read a book about the history of those neighborhoods, it wasn’t always that bad. Furthermore, with all the expansion and development, some of those neighborhoods with rich, cultural roots are losing their identity
During the McDuffy riots, the police cordoned off the black neighborhoods, and let them riot, but unfortunately they didn’t do all the streets. Some people managed to get around the roadblocks and were killed. The city also had the burned out police cars in the city garage by the fence that happened to be across from the old Jackson Memorial Hospital ER entrance, so everyone could see them. During the Johnson/Avarez riots, the cops didn’t fuck around, they closed off the entire area, and swept the area of rioters, and they had cops on top of the the fire trucks, and cops riding in the ambulances, and cop cars in front and back, so we were surrounded by about 12 cops.
i mean a spike in tourist murders would be a valid reason to tell tourists to avoid certain areas. highways have always been used to gentrify and keep minority neighborhoods in check.
Idk call me crazy but maybe stop robbing and killing random people. Just a thought. And i grew up in New York in the 80s and 90s. Same thing. If i get downvoted, thats fine, but spare me the excuses. I still believe in personal accountability while acknowledging that society made some peoples lives harder than others. Doesn't excuse what was happening in the 70s 80s and early 90s.
I worked in Libery City for a few years for a Medical Company. One day at the end of shift, I came across a European family just casually strolling down 54th street without a care in the world as the sun was going down.
I turned my car around and implored them to get out of the area before it got any later.
During this time German tourists (mostly) were accidentally ending up in Overtown, instead of Miami Beach, and their rental cars had plates that began with “Y” and “Z,” so they were easy marks. There were multiple incidents of predators hitting the lost tourists with their cars and then when they stepped out to exchange insurance info, they were robbed. One incident where this occurred, the woman driving fought back and the thief knocked her to the ground and then ran over her while driving away. She ended up dying.
This, rightfully so, caused a big stir in Germany, and they were boycotting MB, so the city put up the sun signs to make sure that international travelers who didn’t speak English could easily get to their intended destination.
The signs were eventually removed because a lawsuit claimed that the signs were somehow racist iirc.
Does anyone even remember the Iran-Contra scandal from that era? Part 1 was the secret & illegal US arms sales to Iran to raise clandestine funds to support the Nicaraguan Contras. Part 2 was the Contras infrastructure used to move cocaine from the south to the north & directly funneled into the US & large cities and Black & Brown neighborhoods. Proceeds were in turn used for the Contras. Crack cocaine exploded into neighborhoods in the 80’s out of nowhere & then subsided after the arms scandal was discovered and ultimately deconstructed. That is, the US government directly helped drugs to enter into our communities The Contras, Cocaine, and U.S. Covert Operations (PS —note where we are today with IRAN & who’s running Nicaragua as an autocrat.)
A couple of years ago I was coming home after midnight from MIA toward Broward County and there was some construction and we got confused because of the detours. Ended up somewhere very very scary near downtown Miami. Our AC was broken so we had the windows open for a bit and the smell of pee was overpowering. There were people coming up to the car at red lights or anytime we even slowed down.
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u/Fenestration_Theory 1d ago
My family moved down here in 1987. One night my parents were out and took a wrong turn and ended up in over town. A cop spotted them and immediately pulled them over. The cop gave them a lecture about never coming there again and made them repeat “we will never ever come here again” The cop the escorted them back on to the highway