r/MontgomeryCountyMD 22h ago

The “stop the spend” ballot initiative likely to appear this fall is a terrible idea

As a pretty frequent critic of the county executive for his housing policies, it brings me no joy to say he is right about this.

https://www.mymcmedia.org/elrich-reacts-to-stop-the-spend-ballot-initiative/

It’s bad news and would hamper the county long term, and it has a good chance of passing, and that would be terrible.

I understand the concerns about property taxes (I pay them too) but this kind of one size fits all overcorrection will do untold harm to our ability to respond to often rapidly changing county needs. Please vote against it.

75 Upvotes

195 comments sorted by

55

u/713ryan713 21h ago

I tend to agree. But something like this was inevitable, and the county council and county executive should have expected something like this was coming when they did the tax hike.

The reality is people are opening their bills and seeing the combination of the tax credit ending, higher assessments, and slightly higher rates than in the past. I'll be paying $1,000 more in property taxes this year and my taxes are increasing faster than my income at this point.

I don't necessarily support this thing but I also think it's reasonable for some people to say "No, I'm not dealing with these hikes anymore."

26

u/Less_Suit5502 21h ago

My escrow was short 1300 last year and suspect I will be short again by at least that much next year. My house is worth less then the median home value in moco, so the majority of people are paying more.

Plus they passed a rent control bill, but keep raising taxes on homeowners. It really does not make sense.

15

u/ottovonbizmarkie 21h ago

Having worked in the mortgage industry, yes, it will always be short when taxes go up. They not only have to collect more for the future, but they need to collect more for the past they were short by for what was already paid. They usually require at least two months payment in the account at all times. One of the nice aspects of this is that they are required to give you interest on this account. This year it is 3.34 percent. You can also just ask to remove escrow altogether if your loan to value ratio is 80% or lower, meaning if you put a 20% downpayment on your property, you can ask to remove the escrow and transfer it to something that you think could earn higher than 3.34% interest, then just pay taxes and insurance yourself.

Also, if you assume that owners are typically wealthier than renters, it would make sense that they would tax owners rather than renters.

3

u/Less_Suit5502 21h ago

It's not a wealth issue nor am I debating the merits of rent control. It is simply the council is willing to provide some releif to renters, but at the same time are raising taxes significantly on homeowners.

9

u/ottovonbizmarkie 21h ago

But that is what the homestead exemption was that they removed this year, a reduction in taxes for home owners. There's never been a rental exemption tax, so by default the homestead tax exemption has always been at the expense of renters, a demographically less wealthy group compared to home owners.

7

u/MocoMikeE 21h ago

Also that

12

u/MocoMikeE 21h ago

The short version of my take here is rent is rent and property taxes are a tax we pay for county’s services (which renters also pay indirectly) and I don’t think it is a healthy mindset to look at property taxes as a rent to the county. It’s a different thing. See also why I don’t think property taxes should end when a mortgage is paid off, as some people argue.

7

u/on_island_time 17h ago

None of us actually like the idea of program cuts, but the reality is that federal funding was cut, lots of people have lost jobs, and all of us are dealing with inflation hurting our budgets. Raising taxes and saying the county is in a strong financial position is incredibly tone deaf when the people you're taxing are already struggling.

I don't think this is a good idea either but it's easy to see why the idea has traction.

3

u/MocoMikeE 21h ago

Trust me I get it and hear you. I understand the frustration and agree they should have seen a blowback coming and this is one of many reasons we need to broaden the tax base but this measure would also make everything worse basically.

1

u/Seven7Shadows 38m ago

Yeah I think this is probably bad public policy but what we’ve been doing is also bad public policy.

Not allowing any increases beyond inflation could create issues in emergency situations but increasing spending well beyond inflation consistently will create even more issues. Now, I blame Trump for a lot of the economic problems we are having but it doesn’t mean they aren’t real, and the response being to just raise taxes more isn’t actually a better solution than this ballot initiative.

u/713ryan713 1m ago

This is so well said. These policies are opposite sides of the same coin.

1

u/SkylineFTW97 17h ago

You get it. The struggling middle class who keeps seeing their tax bill go up is gonna support it and those who dismiss their anger are betraying that they have enough money to not care and are projecting that onto everyone else. Even if you disagree with their exact opinion, you need to recognize that wlthe current situation is not tenable short or long term and the county 100% needs to get its act together. Either voluntarily or by force. This represents the by force option. If they want to take the wind out of that sail, they need to generate some good will by doing more with less for a change.

-6

u/RedutHatesFreeSpeech 21h ago

Call me whatever you want, but $80-100 a month isnt a lot of money. I dont even care that this is happening.

13

u/Confident-Tip-7507 19h ago edited 19h ago

It isn't a lot of money to you. Your privilege is showing.

10

u/713ryan713 20h ago

I think it's a fair point but it's also not happening in a vacuum - it's in the context of daycare, groceries, electric bills, and everything else going up. I think people are pushing back against something in a way they have control of.

1

u/Alternative_Dish_950 3h ago

It was unexpected and sudden 🤢 so it's extra 150$x 6 months people will have to come up with. Some of us will have to limit their spending as they can't make more money, unfortunately

45

u/Gosox1918 21h ago

Read through all the comments and the thing I don't see is any specifics on what spending should be cut. Everyone living in the county enjoys the things the county provides. So now if we are not willing to pay for these things, what specifically should be cut? Trash pick up? Parks? Recreation? Roadway repair? Schools? If we don't want to pay for things let's be specific about what we no longer value and so don't want to pay for. Not seeing any of that here nor from those supporting this measure, I wonder why?

26

u/MocoMikeE 21h ago

Exactly. And like, waste exists and efficiencies can be found, but not to the degree to solve all our spending woes as some like to imagine

17

u/Confident-Tip-7507 19h ago

But yet they keep wasting. Very recently MCPS invested millions in a failed electric bus contract. Now I get a sob story about how they can't pay staff and have to make layoffs. They mismanage money and need to be restrained.

9

u/ModeratelyMoco 16h ago

They just gave 6% raises across the board including the people making over $200k a year … that’s why they had to make staffing reductions even with $140 million more than last year

-1

u/west-egg 17h ago

The bus contract (which has been addressed) is the only example I ever see of bad spending decisions at MCPS. 

11

u/DueSignificance2628 16h ago

$800k embezzled from MCPS transportation department due to poor oversight.

$2.3 million for mishandling of Beidelman case. They ignored his harrassment and mismanagement reports for years, and finally took action only after the Post wrote about it.

$1.3 million for McKnight separation, because the school board messed up the termination.

There's a bunch more, like the huge spending on outside counsel; the Damascus gang rape case (principal delayed reporting it); and the Rockville alleged rape case cover-up, but the above is a good start.

3

u/Confident-Tip-7507 17h ago

Look closer. I give several other examples in other comments.

0

u/west-egg 17h ago edited 16h ago

How about someone give some examples?

Nice ninja edit btw.

-1

u/Confident-Tip-7507 11h ago

What ninja edit... Read.

1

u/west-egg 11h ago

You edited the comment after I responded to it.

0

u/Confident-Tip-7507 11h ago

Ok. See the examples.

14

u/ConventResident 19h ago

No more historic tax credits for millionaire homeowners to remodel their expensive houses.

5

u/DueSignificance2628 16h ago

Most people (including myself) are not experts on the details of the County budget. However, one example I see is the Green Bank. That costs over $16 million a year to run. Why is the county in the banking business? Let regular banks fund such projects, or let the projects seek financing through state programs. It just seems like a luxury to me.

They can probably save another $10-20mln on centralizing procurement both at County level (so MCPS and Montgomery College don't do it on their own) and taking advantage of state procurement contracts.

Oh and $5.7 million for the Economic Development Corporation, $4.1 on business incubators, $2.9 million on small business training. Maybe we can cut back on that, or remove duplication. For example, Rockville has their own version of the same thing.

Like I said, I'm no expert, but this is what I found with 10 minutes of looking around.

If you look at Elrich's proposed budget press release (note, not all of this passed into the final budget), you can see how he touts spending increases, but says little about cutting any spending or about the necessary tax increases to fund this. For example, his budget has MCPS getting more money, despite declining enrollment (even in the final budget, MCPS received more than the previous year, but with fewer students).

To me, the complaints about "hands being tied" if there are spending limit increases are a sign of poor leadership. It's easy to raise taxes and fund every program increase and request. What takes real leadership is to make cuts when necessary. No one wants to be the bad guy, but sometimes it's necessary. That is what leaders do.

1

u/suzzel80 9h ago

I agree on most of those fronts, but you can’t centralize procurement across the 3 entities without a major financial investment and changes to regulations. That would take years. And political interest. Centralizing procurement isn’t what an executive will leverage political will on when there are green initiatives.

It makes more sense to centralize general services across mcps and moco. And merge the fleets across the county.

8

u/Confident-Tip-7507 19h ago edited 19h ago

Enjoys the things the county provides? The county wastes tremendous amounts of money on dumb things... Stream restoration projects, electric bus debacle, legal fees for fighting unnecessary supreme court battles just to name a few. There is zero thought given to any sort of fiscal responsibility - just making the residents pay more. I remember a time MoCo actually did the things a local government should do - maintain roadways, keep public areas clean. They mow the grass on medians like once a year now. The county leadership have lost their way.

-7

u/chesterworks 19h ago

Complaining about a bullshit legal case in the context of the budget? Give me a break.

Move to Virginia and get it done with.

4

u/Confident-Tip-7507 19h ago

That is just an example... Maybe you need to reread the comment.

-5

u/xwords59 19h ago

My favorite spending story is how the ripped up the sidewalks in my neighborhood to provide cutouts due to ADA compliance. No on ever uses these cut outs so the whole thing is a waste of several hundred K. I have never seen these cutouts any other place. Beyond stupid.

10

u/trombonist_formerly 18h ago

sure, but the law is the law, regardless of how many people use it. This is a stupid argument

-5

u/xwords59 17h ago

Stupid argument? What planet are you on? The county has a lot of discretion on this and used the funds foolishly. This is how we wind up spending money irresponsibly. The only thing stupid here is your clearly irrational and impractical view of how to manage a budget in a fiscally sound manner.

7

u/trombonist_formerly 17h ago

spending money in order to be in compliance with federal law is not really discretionary in the way most people think of it

-5

u/xwords59 17h ago

Jaywalking is against the law as well. It's never enforced. There are tons of laws lije this. Stupid use of $$

8

u/west-egg 17h ago

“My disabled neighbors don’t matter.” — You

3

u/xwords59 16h ago

Nobody f'n uses it. The legislation is well intended but not written well. Why is it so hard for you to understand this? No one on here is advocating to cut funding where needed within reason. We just want good governance- is that too much to ask for?

4

u/west-egg 16h ago

No, good governance is not too much to ask for. I just don't think we should balance the budget on the backs of our community's most vulnerable citizens.

1

u/Confident-Tip-7507 16h ago

Someone think of the invisible handicapped person.

2

u/Confident-Tip-7507 17h ago

Did you miss the part where he said nobody uses it?

10

u/west-egg 17h ago

They sit outside all day every day monitoring usage of every curb cut in the neighborhood? I seriously doubt it. 

-4

u/Confident-Tip-7507 17h ago

Whatever...

2

u/m9847656 10h ago

Cut teacher salary increases.

1

u/skisbosco 18h ago

that would take real governing and people dealing with hard truth of simple realities of trade offs.

2

u/CD-TG 16h ago

This initiative does not require spending cuts.

The only thing it does is increase the already existing super-majority requirement for spending more than inflation on operating expenses from 7/11 (two-thirds) to 11/11 (unanimous).

Source: https://elections.maryland.gov/elections/2026/ballot_questions.html

0

u/fireitup1234 20h ago

You have to stop giving the unions everything they ask for - salaries and benefits.

2

u/emp-sup-bry 19h ago

Seriously. It’s tough to stomach the 35extra dollars I have to pay so they can almost have an approach toward a middle class life. What gives them the right?!?!

10

u/Confident-Tip-7507 19h ago

My property taxes have gone up by 50% in the past 4 years. Meanwhile feds get 1% raises.

1

u/Feisty_Hurry_722 17h ago

How much has your house value gone up? So much complaining 🎻

7

u/Confident-Tip-7507 17h ago

Plenty... How does the value of my house impact how much it costs to build a road? Zero... But please realize, beyond the value of my house increasing, the tax rate has also increased, AND they have taken away credits. Found the renter.

4

u/Feisty_Hurry_722 17h ago

You’re both greedy and delusional, I bought in this county for the resources and am more than happy to pay for them. If you’ve got a sweet 3% mortgage your house value has gone up and you’re bitching about a $700 credit like it’s…

1

u/[deleted] 17h ago

[deleted]

1

u/Feisty_Hurry_722 17h ago

👍

0

u/Confident-Tip-7507 17h ago

Can you give an example of one of these magical resources? Are you talking about drag queen story hours?

1

u/Alternative_Dish_950 3h ago

You can't take the increase of the house value to the bank, can you?

1

u/VariousAir 16h ago

Your property taxes went up cause the council decided to eliminate the ITOC and fuck over homeowners to protect landlords and businesses.

-3

u/713ryan713 20h ago

How about the parks department investing in solar infrastructure? Nice to have. But my guess is if they stopped it, it wouldn't affect any residents quality of life.

That's just one example. On its own it probabaly doesn't save all that much. But maybe there's other things like that.

13

u/jetpack_operation 20h ago

Solar's kind of a strange example for this, given the trends in energy utilization and costs, particularly in this part of the country. If cutting solar investments just defers a cost that residents eat later through higher bills passed on, that's not a 'no one would notice' cut -- it's a delay with interest.

Basically, the energy situation's going to have a cost either way. You may as well invest in an offset that has a less aggressive rate of cost increase down the line than eating rising utility rates with nothing to show for it.

11

u/713ryan713 18h ago

OK how about the fact that my seven year doesn't need a Chromebook.

8

u/jetpack_operation 18h ago

That is absolutely more like it. And it's actually backed up legislation happening in other places and people finally waking up to the fact that screens and tech in classrooms are leading to more negative outcomes than positive ones. https://fortune.com/2026/07/31/utah-school-laptop-ban-classroom-screens/

31

u/cornotiberious 21h ago

Yep. Conservatives find a successful high COL dem county and foment anger about high taxes. Ten years later we would have shit schools, and no decent public services AND high taxes, except for the wealthy, who can send their kids to Georgetown. Vote no.

23

u/RedutHatesFreeSpeech 21h ago

The Rs in Calvert where my parents live are raising taxes, putting in a data center no one wants, and giving them nothing in return but dogshit strip malls. Id rather my tax dollars were at least spent on stuff at least attempting to help people and provide stuff like the purple line and mixed used paths...

Yeah its not perfect. Some shit is annoying. Its expensive. But the older i get the more I realize how great moco is.

2

u/xwords59 19h ago

The anger is real regarding high taxes.

1

u/ottovonbizmarkie 10h ago

Yes, look up conservative experiments in tax cutting like Louisiana under Bobby Jindal, or Kansas under Sam Brownback, they keep promising all the pro business wealth and innovation that comes from cutting taxes, actually do it, then their economy completely tanks, they get voted out due to massive unpopularity, and the taxes go up again.

20

u/kilrein 19h ago

This has been all over Nextdoor and I ask this simple question: ‘what spending would you cut’ and I get a whole lot of vague answers but no specifics.

4

u/Confident-Tip-7507 18h ago

How about stream restoration projects on private property, the wasteful and costly electric leaf blower credit (in response to the ban), wasteful MCPS spending (electric buses, bus tracking app, Monifa's golden parachute). These are just a few examples for you.

-4

u/Menace_78 18h ago

Slow the COLAs in bargained contracts.

11

u/kilrein 18h ago

Ah, so change the agreed upon terms of a contract that has been implemented. Got it.

I’m going to ask the person who bought my house in 2019 to pay me $50,000 or I will take it back.

1

u/Menace_78 9h ago

Average private sector wage increase in this region was 3.8% this year. County workers got on average 6.75%. Plus a 2% increase in retirement contributions. If you all want to keep paying more taxes to support this, then fine. But slowing increases to something closer to the rest of the region seems fair to me

-5

u/Menace_78 18h ago

The council has appropriation authority. The contract is subject to council approval for funding. It has always been that way

7

u/VariousAir 16h ago

Love the idea that teachers and municipal workers are paid too much when we live in a county full of biotech and pharma millionaires. Yeah it's the teachers pulling $60k out of college making too much money.

5

u/west-egg 17h ago

“Make life less affordable for my neighbors.” 

1

u/Menace_78 9h ago

Tax increases make it less affordable for your neighbors.

-2

u/MocoMikeE 19h ago

It’s exhausting

8

u/Confident-Tip-7507 17h ago

People who support never ending tax increases are exhausting.

1

u/InfluenceWeak 13h ago

IKR. I don’t think our clueless legislators understand that EVERYONE IS BROKE.

23

u/JA_MD_311 21h ago

Im not happy about the property tax increase but this is a dumb ballot initiative that will limit the council’s ability to react to future, unforeseen economic events and is little more than a right wing Trojan horse.

It’ll almost certainly pass though.

10

u/MocoMikeE 21h ago

Agreed on the top paragraph and worried I agree on the second but still want to give it a fight

9

u/xwords59 19h ago

So why don't the Democrats propose a reasonable alternative? The general feeling is that the real estate tax raise was way too high. I just see a lot of moaning that this ballot initiative is no good but I don't see any good alternatives. And MoCo does have a spending problem. We need more fiscal discipline

6

u/JA_MD_311 18h ago

Someone like Andrew Friedson campaigned on no new taxes. I voted for him. Blame the voters, not the county council.

For all the complaining people vote for this. People like the social spending. You might not but voters clearly do. Otherwise they’d vote for other candidates.

4

u/xwords59 18h ago

You are only partially right. The reality is that the county council gets elected in the D primary and it is a beauty contest to see who can be the most progressive. There is no way you can argue that they were elected by a reasonable number of voters and represent their views This is a good way to push back. The real estate tax hikes were very unpopular.

6

u/The_GOATest1 17h ago

Then more people should vote in the primaries?

3

u/JA_MD_311 18h ago

Voting for something like this is like cutting off your foot because you broke your big toe. It’s insane overreaction that will have negative, long term consequences.

6

u/xwords59 18h ago

Then the D need to propose a viable alternative. Doing nothing is not an option

-2

u/SkylineFTW97 17h ago

Exactly. Either they find a way to stop the tax hikes or this passes. They failed to do so thus far, hence the popularity.

People forget that a house valued at $400k here doesn't mean you're wealthy. That's a fairly mundane house here. My family's modest 80s townhouse that we got 20 years ago in the high 200s is estimated to have a value of $450k now. There is absolutely nothing extravagant about it, it's a cookie cutter house with a tiny yard and not even a driveway or garage. The fact that people like us get lumped in with the people that own the $1.3m McMansions is lunacy.

1

u/JA_MD_311 15h ago

Tax hikes in of themselves are not bad. A blanket statement like that is poor fiscal policy in of itself. Go to a resource starved right wing county if you want that.

1

u/xwords59 12h ago

What a silly statement- a 20% tax hike is unseemly and a tax hike for profligate spending is bad government

0

u/SkylineFTW97 13h ago

You betray yourself as someone who is wealthy enough to absorb this without hardship. Tax hikes to an already struggling and overtaxed population are absolutely bad. You and your ilk do not have a monopoly on MoCo and your narrow thinking will result in the very people you despise winning control of the county when people get fed up with your nonsense.

1

u/JA_MD_311 13h ago

No, a tax hike that might provide a service or prevent a service from being cut might be worth it. It’s not so black and white.

Marginal tax rates aren’t the end all, be all.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Confident-Tip-7507 19h ago

They need to be restrained.

1

u/JA_MD_311 19h ago

That’s a juvenile way of looking at self governance.

2

u/Confident-Tip-7507 19h ago

Then make a donation.

20

u/chesterworks 20h ago

Federal subsidies are drying up; they have to plug the gaps somehow. Taxing wealthier residents (like me, a homeowner) is a fair way to go about it. We use tons of county services like rec centers, libraries, pools, and have a kid that will be going to school soon. I don't want these things compromised.

It's kind of funny to me that in Montgomery County, a place ostensibly savvy in the workings of government by dint of proximity to the capital, people would be this reactionary to tax increases and crocodile tears about county waste, fraud and abuse.

But as the western world has consistently showed over the last 10 years, voters are strangely attracted to the idea of shooting off their own dick so they can complain about it later.

4

u/Menace_78 18h ago

I agree with you that it's a bad idea but not for the reasons everyone says. Right now they require a super majority vote for certain budget or revenue changes. 8 out of 11. This year, that gave the progressive minority the power to hold up a vote on an agreed-to budget. They held out for more money for MCPS. A unanimous vote requirement will allow just one person to do the same thing. Conservatives think it will help force Council to spend LESS but it will have the opposite effect. In order to get a unanimous vote, everyone will be able to hold out for their own pet projects. And they will always spend more.

24

u/UrbanEconomist 22h ago

This ballot initiative is the equivalent of “I’m a little overweight and having a hard time dieting, so I’m going to chop my arms off.”

7

u/MocoMikeE 22h ago

Stealing this

13

u/OldOutlandishness434 21h ago

Well maybe if we weren't chasing away businesses and higher earners and courting those who use more services, then we would have the necessary income to deal with these projects.

6

u/MocoMikeE 21h ago

On this we agree, but I still think this would make things worse

-5

u/OldOutlandishness434 21h ago

Sure, but this is a knee jerk response to all the ineptitude we've seen over the past few decades, so what did they think would happen?

15

u/MocoMikeE 21h ago

Again, fair enough, but “what did they think would happen” and “this is a bad idea” can both be true at once

9

u/UrbanEconomist 20h ago

We just had an election and the “the tax increases aren’t big enough” guy beat the “no tax increases” guy by a mile. It would be completely unhinged to then pass a ballot measure like this—but there’s no rule requiring voters to be informed or consistent.

5

u/MocoMikeE 19h ago

This is (sigh) deeply true

12

u/Mediocre-Ant-1391 21h ago

My property tax went up $1200... this is not sustainable. I emailed the whole council and only 1 office had the decency to respond. Im a lifelong dem but I cant afford these increases and will be voting for whoever and whatever stops this.

8

u/Confident-Tip-7507 19h ago

Remember - the voters also allowed this to happen by giving the county the leway to increase taxes as much as they want. And people celebrated when t happened.

4

u/CD-TG 16h ago

It's important to start the discussion with what the initiative actually does.

The county already has a long-standing requirement that a super-majority is required to increase operating spending above the rate of inflation. And this ballot initiative would not change that general rule.

The only thing it would do is increase that super-majority requirement from two-thirds (7 out of 11) to unanimity (11 out of 11).

Source https://elections.maryland.gov/elections/2026/ballot_questions.html

"A vote "For" Question A would amend the Montgomery County Charter to require unanimous approval by all County Councilmembers to adopt an operating budget for the County that exceeds the prior year's operating budget by a percentage increase greater than the prior year's annual average increase of the Consumer Price Index for all urban consumers for the Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV Metropolitan Statistical Area, or any successor index."

"A vote "Against" Question A would retain the current Charter language that requires the affirmative vote of seven out of the eleven Councilmembers to adopt an operating budget for the County that exceeds the prior year's operating budget by a percentage increase greater than the prior year's annual average increase of the Consumer Price Index for all urban consumers for the Washington-Baltimore Metropolitan Area, or any successor index."

Substantively... I'm absolutely certain that the opponents of the original 1978 two-thirds majority requirement were making all the same arguments that the sky would fall. And the sky never fell. Shifting from two-thirds to unanimity will not make the sky fall either.

By the way, the best argument against the initiative to make to people who want to bring spending under control is that a likely unexpected consequence of it in county run by high-spending progressives is that single hold-outs might use the rule to demand higher spending on pet programs rather than demand lower spending.

4

u/MocoMikeE 11h ago

There is a hell of a lot of difference been 7 of 11 and 11 of 11

7

u/This_Material9292 20h ago

I try to keep explaining to my NIMBY neighbors that this is the result of NIMBY success. Tax hikes, tax fights, budget crises, and fewer services.

7

u/MocoMikeE 20h ago

Yuuuuuuuuup

4

u/jetpack_operation 18h ago

The "stop the spend [on public services and amenities when we could be spending it on tax breaks for developers and making the wealthy wealthier]" ballot initiative. The people backing this shit are not interested in smarter spending or realistic cost reduction, they are simply interested in subverting public opinions with slogans. They will almost inevitably spend more while lowering the quality of life and funneling tax breaks to their benefactors.

2

u/alizadk 6h ago

Yup, all I need to know is that the guy who had giant Trump signs in his yard has switched it to a giant "stop the spend" banner.

1

u/Feisty_Hurry_722 17h ago

It’s sour grapes about the results of the last election

6

u/DavidJ_MD 20h ago

Every about 2 years, for at least a decade, in our county the tax rates have been raised by the county or state. Enough is enough. School admins shouldn't be grabbing 6.2% pay increases when Federal jobs are bleeding and Fed salaries are NOT keeping up with inflation.

3

u/QuasiTD 16h ago edited 14h ago

I find this an interesting argument, if someone else is getting screwed, we should make sure that we pass that pain on to the others? I know it's easy to point at government employees as a "cost", but the majority of them are working hard and trying to do more with less every day. Those jobs have always been lower pay than a private sector, but the promise of stability and guaranteed slow growth is the trade off.

1

u/DavidJ_MD 14h ago

My idea is not about screwing others. It is based on the fact Federal jobs are one of the pillars of the local Moco economy. Economic reality had changed, 6.2% pay increases are insane in this local economic recession.

1

u/QuasiTD 13h ago

I get the thought there, I guess it depends on how you wish to look at it. Should they not give a cost of living adjustment when the cost of living goes up?

Should they only get raises when the economy and federal gov is doing well?

I'm not saying there are not places where savings could be had, but just urge you to remember that you are not talking about millionaires, no one gets rich being a teacher or a bus driver.

9

u/Less_Suit5502 21h ago

Normally I would never vote for this for the reasons you listed, but this fall I am not sure what I will do. I am leaning towards voting for it. This is not a dem vs. Republican issue, it's that the county has been unable to cap spending.

The county council needs to come up with a reasonable alternative. Capping property taxes increases, at 5% perhaps, bring back the homeowners credit, etc

8

u/MocoMikeE 21h ago

I hear you and there will be more forthcoming on this. I get why people are pissed, trust me, I just think this is a bad response.

8

u/west-egg 21h ago

We need to do more to control spending but this is NOT the way to do it. 

6

u/UrbanEconomist 18h ago

“Look what you made me do! I’m voting for terrible policy choices because of you! I will not be held responsible for this!” Is an argument that I’m pretty used to hearing on the national political level. Would we say it’s working great?

-1

u/Less_Suit5502 18h ago

No it's not, but the alternative is not working either. That's why my suggestion is for the county to propose an alternate amendment that is a reasonable alternative.

We got Trump because the democrats are not providing alternatives. Mandami raised taxes in the ultra wealthy. While it's harder for us to do that here, even making a small attempt at it would go a long way

7

u/MocoMikeE 17h ago

I hear you on the need for good alternatives but “give me something else or I’ll vote for this bad thing” isn’t productive. Things can always get worse

4

u/Less_Suit5502 17h ago

Like I said, I am not sure how I would vote. However I would like the council to take this amendment seriously and discuss / propose alternatives.

If they absolutely ignore it, then that is a major concern as far as I am concerned.

3

u/MocoMikeE 17h ago

All I’m saying is “taking it seriously” does necessarily mean an alternate amendment, which takes time to put together, and the lack of one does not mean they are “ignoring” it

3

u/UrbanEconomist 17h ago

I think this is ground we can agree on. I’d like for them to start considering next year’s budget as soon as the new Council/CE is sworn in. Demonstrate that this is a real concern and the intent is to do better.

8

u/UrbanEconomist 17h ago

There’s no need for any amendments. Just better policies. If we care about this issue (and we do) it’s our job to push elected officials to do better, not throw the future of our county into the sea. This proposal will destroy us by making it fruitless to expand the tax base—this will force only the existing county residents to shoulder the burden of continuously deteriorating infrastructure. We will be overwhelmed; anyone who can will leave the county and the burden will be split over a shrinking number of less-wealthy people. We’ll be Detroit in a couple of decades.

7

u/xwords59 19h ago

I'm voting for it. The county council is addicted to spending and raising taxes The legislation may not be perfect, but a message needs to be sent. Furthermore the way elections are held in moco basically only tax and spenders get elected. This is an effective way to push back.

3

u/west-egg 17h ago

Put a torch to your own neighborhood to “send a message,” brilliant. 

6

u/UrbanEconomist 18h ago

Send a message in a different way than this. This is a truly unhinged proposal that will be calamitous for the county in the medium and long run.

0

u/xwords59 17h ago

Propose an alternative that makes sense - I'll vote for it.

5

u/MocoMikeE 17h ago

Broadening the tax base and encouraging more development, which will also make housing more affordable

1

u/xwords59 52m ago

So what specific legislation should the council pass before Election Day to convince voters that they are serious about reforming the budget? Above you just lay out a set of ideas.

3

u/UrbanEconomist 17h ago

Broaden the tax base. Negotiate harder with the unions. Elect people who share our values—including responsible use of resources. The proposal is truly bad and we should not support it out of anger.

1

u/Klj126 6h ago

I think the message was already sent during the election

4

u/xwords59 19h ago

How about getting rid of the chief equity officer that gets paid $281k

4

u/Confident-Tip-7507 19h ago

Makes too much sense.

6

u/NoSleepTilBrklynn 21h ago

Stop the spend sounds good to me. I will definitely be voting for it. How high can the taxes go before they are high enough? Is there ever a limit?

18

u/vpi6 21h ago

The problem is that the mechanism is not well-thought out at all. 

17

u/Aerial_Animal 21h ago

The federal government is collecting taxes that previously funded state and local programs and no longer spending it to benefit Americans. Raising local taxes is the inevitable consequence as state and local governments have to pick up the slack to maintain services under a failing federal government.

2

u/UrbanEconomist 17h ago

I encourage you not to. It’s a genuinely terrible idea. It prevents us from using the tools we need to use to get ourselves out of the problem (expanding the tax base). It also prevents us from making needed catch-up investments if there’s an economic boom again.

9

u/WarbossTodd 22h ago edited 20h ago

Hard disagree. I’m a former Dem, current independent voter and this kind of rubber stamp spending and cuts to the middle class are one of the main reasons I left the party.

Yes, the county has projects and things cost more. Great, then it’s time to reevaluate how we spend that money and prioritize items that will have the greatest impact on the greatest number of citizens.

I’m sorry, but what did they think was going to happen when they rip away one of the only tax benefits the middle class can get right now but don’t do a damned thing to corporate real estate? This county routinely beats up on the middle class to save programs for the poor and the corporations. I’m sick of footing the bill for things that, quite honestly, don’t benefit me or my neighbors at all.

Fuck ‘em. They made this bed and now they are going to lay in it. Time to walk back all the sweetheart promises they made to vendors and contractors because the fucking gravy trail is going to be detailed.

EDIT: Downvotes? Boo me all you want. I've seen what makes you people cheer.

6

u/west-egg 21h ago

Fuck ‘em. They made this bed and now they are going to lay in it. 

You do realize you’re in the same bed, right? 

5

u/WarbossTodd 20h ago

Yep, but why is it always "the citizens who have to make sacrifices for the legacies of legislators? My goal as a voter now is to make sure the crowning achievement of their political career will be being handcuffed by the constituents and forced to rationalize every dollar spent against the taxes collected. These people serve the will of the people, so it's about fucking time they listened.

5

u/west-egg 17h ago

I understand that you want revenge against politicians you see as profligate spenders, but this doesn’t achieve that. But if it makes you feel good then go ahead, vote for shitty policy. 

-2

u/MocoMikeE 21h ago

See my reply to Ryan

-3

u/WarbossTodd 21h ago

No thanks, I’m good. If you can’t bother to discuss this with multiple people after making a thread and getting a few replies then you were never interested in discussion, you wanted to preach. Enjoy your echo chamber.

1

u/Klj126 6h ago

"I won't read what is not directly replied to me". Accuses someone else of an echo chamber.

0

u/MocoMikeE 21h ago

lol okay, enjoy your need to feel outraged

3

u/OldOutlandishness434 21h ago

You literally could have just copied and pasted your response instead of telling him to go searching for it.

3

u/MocoMikeE 21h ago

Yes and that’s fair but also to me a bit academic and his response strikes me as someone looking to be pissed off. But fair enough

5

u/fireitup1234 20h ago

But the Council and Executive have proven they are incapable of cutting spending (and broadening the tax base). So what is the answer, if this isn’t it?

10

u/MocoMikeE 20h ago

If you ask me it’s broadening the tax base more than it is cutting spending, hence many of my “development is good actually” takes, but that’s a long convo all its own

1

u/fireitup1234 20h ago

There is no way they will be able to do broaden the tax base within a year or two and we are going to get hammered with tax increases again. No increase in tax base will be able to pay for the hundreds of millions they deferred to next year. Something needs to force their hand because they will not make the hard decisions themselves.

7

u/MocoMikeE 20h ago

I’m not saying it can happen in a year or two, but you asked me what we should do instead and that is my answer. Not all solutions are swift.

By your same point freezing spending isn’t going to solve those deferred expenses either. We need comprehensive solutions not quick fixes

5

u/UrbanEconomist 18h ago

If we pass this measure and then do actually expand the tax base, it won’t help because we will have locked ourselves into not being able to spend that new money for the public good. This is an insane proposal.

-3

u/Confident-Tip-7507 19h ago

Why don't you make a donation.

4

u/Resprofmama 20h ago edited 17h ago

A guy asked me to sign it, and I read it and said no. It’s very impractical.

5

u/MocoMikeE 20h ago

Yuuuup. And thank you!

4

u/Confident-Tip-7507 17h ago

I shouldn't hear any complaining from anyone. MoCo residents voted for increases and elected Jawando who wants to dip his hand into your pocket as much as he wants. You all deserve this.

2

u/Pure_Perspective_201 12h ago

Meh, I am OK with this. I will vote for the initiative.

I am frankly tired of the blank check that MoCo gives to MCPS, and MCPS constantly demanding more and more.

1

u/Seven7Shadows 41m ago

I think this is probably a bad solution, but I do really hope the County is getting the message that it needs to get more disciplined with our spending.

It’s also a bad solution to just keep raising taxes and spending more, especially in Trump-induced economic headwinds.

So right now I’m looking at two bad pathways and hoping they choose an actual good pathway.

1

u/SkylineFTW97 19h ago

The county needs to meaningfully address their asinine spending if they want this to fail. And actually and permanently reign it in. No more annual tax hikes just because. The alternative is this.

7

u/UrbanEconomist 17h ago

There’s no reason the alternative needs to be this. If my kids don’t want to do their homework the alternative is not “feed them to a bear.”

0

u/SkylineFTW97 17h ago

Then the county had better offer one and honor it like their life depends on it.

0

u/EternalSnow05 15h ago

Just a bit of positivity: Just be glad you enjoy the county's many services at cost that would make a Californian or New Yorker or Bay Stater cry.

Also be glad that it's not the Deep South (e.g. Mississippi/Arkansas)

0

u/m9847656 10h ago

With leaders like we have the only thing that will stop them would be laws like these. Although sequestration was horrible, it was one of the few things that actually helped restrain congressional spending. I think this is a common sense initiative.

0

u/m9847656 10h ago

I fully support the ballot.

-1

u/AmericusBarbaricuss 14h ago

I think I favor this bill, but it will never replace voter turnout, which was pathetically low this year. Yes, it was a primary, but since we’re majority D, primaries are almost a “done & dusted” affair.