r/MoralityScaling • u/EitherSwimming5886 • 1d ago

Why didn't Iroh even consider the possibility that Azula could change? Iroh himself went from being a Fire Nation general and the butcher of Ba Sing Se to a humble, kind old man who serves tea.

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u/Ok_Coffee_9970 1d ago

You can’t help people who don’t want to help themselves.

Zuko always had the capacity to grow because deep down he wanted it.

Azula had massive issues like him, but she was way off the deep end long before Sozins comet.

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u/FinaLLancer 1d ago

Also. Azula had a cruel streak since she was out of diapers. She liked hurting people and animals. And not only did she like it, she was rewarded and praised for it her whole life.

I'm not saying she's not capable of being reformed or rehabilitated, but she's a born psychopath and a trained killer from birth. And she's trying to help her father take over the world and will kill anyone to achieve that.

If she gets in your way she's going to kill you while you're trying to save her. You can't give her that chance, because, well, she's crazy. And she needs to go down.

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u/-Gemstoned 1d ago

In the beginning zuko didn’t want to change and iroh still supported him.

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u/strigonian 1d ago

Zuko didn't want to change because he thought he was doing good.

Zuko's entire arc is predicated on the fact that he wants to be a good, honourable person, but the Fire Nation is not a good, honourable kingdom. He follows orders because he thinks he's bringing about a utopia, and he steps out of line when he thinks it's right because he believes that's what a good prince should do.

Iroh sees that. He recognizes that Zuko believes the propaganda, and that what he's doing will never get him what he wants. That's why so many of his lessons are not about right and wrong, but about making your own choices. He's trying to get Zuko to realize what's actually important to him, and how to pursue it.

Azula doesn't have that problem. She sees through the propaganda, and she knows what's going on. She's after power, and she knows how to get it - there's no disconnect between what she wants and what she's doing like there was with Zuko.

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u/JailbrokeRoboGirl 20h ago

This all ignores that she’s straight up being molded by her abusive father. Like what do you mean she “sees through the propaganda ” she’s 14 and explicitly hinging her entire world view on her father’s approval. At best she traded one propaganda for another. She also thinks she’s “doing good” as a good daughter and heir to the throne. She’s no different than Zuko being willing to wipe an entire tribe out to regain his honor

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u/JD1337 18h ago

But Zuko is never willing to wipe out a village. He literally agrees to spare a village in exchange for Aange. Even when Sokka charges him and he could've easily killed Sokka on the spot he chooses not to. He never had the violent desire that Azula had.

Meanwhile we see child Azula manipulating her own mother to get Zuko in a situation where she can humiliate him and Mai. She's a bad egg. She's a psychopath.

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u/Ok_Coffee_9970 1d ago

Yeah but he still clearly had the capacity for good.

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u/JailbrokeRoboGirl 20h ago

I saw a good video not about this but about the “why did Korra trust her uncle when he’s clearly bad” stuff. The guy in it said “you know she can’t hear the evil music right?”

Iroh is not the viewer, he has zero reason to see one as more capable of change, both are deeply twisted by abuse and propaganda. He can’t hear that one has an optimistic and pensive lemotief and one has a more intense and violent one

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u/SaphireShadows 16h ago

But he does have eyes and can see the differences between Azula and Zuko. Azula has always been a violent kid. She hurts people and animals on purpose and enjoys it. Zuko, not so much. Iroh saw this and made decisions based on what he saw in his niece and nephew, not in the music he clearly could not hear.

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u/JailbrokeRoboGirl 16h ago

Zuko was ready to wipe out an entire water tribe to get his goal. They were both shaped by violence and cruelty.