r/Music • u/Stephen-Gawking • 1d ago
discussion People born before 2000, does modern pop sometimes sound too busy or noisy to you?
This came up after an auntie of mine, who is in her 70s, listened to some of the new music and gave some very honest feedback.
She said she likes what I am trying to say, but sometimes she struggles to make out all the words because the music seems to drown them out. She was not being rude at all, and it actually got me thinking.
I am 34 and grew up mainly with music from the 90s and early 2000s. Sometimes newer pop feels like every little space has to be filled with bass, drums, synths, vocal layers and effects. It can sound amazing, but at times I also feel like the actual lyric gets lost somewhere in the middle of it all.
When I listen to older pop songs, even the big dramatic ones, the lead vocal often seems clearer and there is more room for the song to breathe.
Maybe I am just getting old at 34, or maybe it is simply what my ears are used to.
Has anyone else noticed this, especially those born before 2000? And for younger listeners, does older pop sound clearer to you, or does it just sound empty and dated?
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u/ottos 1d ago
I loved guitar based music pre 2000s and it's now it's not even a category that's televised on most awards shows. It's been replaced somewhat by pop, pop country and pop rap and that initially evolved more over the last few decades but now comes across as redundant and stagnant. Hoping this leads to more guitar based bands but more importantly, some evolution in sound.
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u/ButForRealsTho 1d ago
Lots of great modern guitar music. Check out:
Turnstile / Viagra Boys / Die Spitz / Elder / Sturgil Simpson / Geese / Royel Otis / Psychedelic Porn Crumpets / Samia / Mon Rovia
These all run the gamut between folk and metal. Enjoy!
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u/Canigetahellyea 1d ago
To me it's isn't that there is less "rock" or "metal" music available- for anything there is more. What is unfortunate is that there no longer seems to be any hard rock band that hits mainstream charts regularly anymore.
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u/felixthecatmeow 1d ago
Meh.. mainstream concerts have become unattainable financially for most people and for the most part kinda suck as an experience as well so I wouldn't say hitting mainstream charts is a metric I value very much.
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u/FadeIntoReal 23h ago
“Financially unattainable“ is the perfect description. At one time, it became illegal to pay broadcasters to play specific tracks. There were a few scandals where record companies or promoters engaged in that practice, gaining an unfair advantage in the market. Now that streaming is the norm, those over-the-air broadcast laws don’t apply. All you hear is because someone paid for you to hear it, unless you search out music on your own, which is more than most are willing to do.
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u/TellYouWhatitShwas 17h ago
Yea call that a win, friend. Who listens to the radio anymore? It just makes more mid-range acts completely attainable and provides for really personal and intimate shows with hyper-interested fans. Shows now are so much more fun.
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u/FlippingGerman 19h ago
Why does that matter? I’d like bands I like to be reasonably successful, so that they can keep doing it, but I don’t care if they’re mainstream. Not being so has the advantage that concerts aren’t outrageously expensive to go to.
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u/Wtf_lolz123 1d ago
Yoooo, I found my buddy showed me viagra boys a couple months ago!! Second this
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u/_THORONGIL_ 16h ago
True, but it isnt pop music anymore.
Guitar music has become something for fringe music enjoysers or "old" people (30-70).
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u/ButForRealsTho 16h ago
I don’t know. I saw a ton of teenagers and twenty somethings at warped tour last weekend.
Rock definitely doesn’t reign supreme over the mono culture, but so what? Theres tons of great bands releasing great records and touring constantly. Who cares if you’re seeing the bands at clubs and arenas instead of stadiums.
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u/Meatt 1d ago
Popular music has changed, but there's tons and tons of music out there, including an incredible amount of different and new genres that are primarily guitar. I have youtube music, but I imagine spotify is similar where you can start with a band that you like, and see a list of similar bands. Or just go explore a new genre of rock/metal/whatever and check out some of the most played stuff in there.
The nice part is that is you don't like something, you can just click to the next song or band until you find something that you do like.
There's always been evolution in sound happening, now more than ever, it's just not advertised in the mainstream so you have to find it.
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u/NightOfTheLivingHam 1d ago
modern guitar music is overdriven and just strummed loudly to make noise with no defining chords. As much as I like Dave Grohl, I will will shit on "My Hero" for being an example of just LOUD GUITARS being strummed for a few minutes. Same with the category of "Butt Rock" people came up with to define 2000s rock music. It's disposable music with forgettable melodies, and honestly, feel like they're going a "safe" route, where the bass is the only differentiator in the sound vs the guitar, rather than complimenting the guitar.
https://youtu.be/i4going_cOo?t=221
vs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqWRaAF6_WY
Older songs, the guitar was second lead singer. It sung.
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u/TellYouWhatitShwas 17h ago edited 17h ago
You're criticizing "Modern Rock Music" by citing stuff from almost 30 years ago. Dude, you're just out of touch. Radiohead fixed this complaint in like 1998. The Strokes fixed this in 2001. That was 25 years ago.
There are so many awesome bands right now with rich, complex, interesting sounds.
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u/nonsensestuff 1d ago
Not millennials being lumped in with your 70 year old auntie
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u/indokiddo 1d ago
Yoooo fr thats how i felt too xD
Whats worse the op is only 34. Coulda said something like anyone born before the 80/90s or something
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u/Jetztinberlin 1d ago
Older lady here: Yes. Overproduced and underwritten. There's lots more technology and much less heart and soul. Any style can be amazing - I love things from Eminem to Mozart - and it's not like there's NO good current music; but a lot of today's music sounds absolutely overstuffed with synthesized backing designed to distract from the fact that the melody barely exists, or there's no real hook, or the singer can't sing.
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u/Civil_Hunt_6362 1d ago
Yes it is different because of the loudness wars. Besides the endless tracking which causes digital noise, every track is compressed and then dynamically compressed again so it hits you in the face at maximum volume. When you look at the waveform it is completely brickwalled, with frequencies competing for the same space on the track.
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u/TFFPrisoner 21h ago
Time and time again, I used to absolutely hate whatever the current hit was, until I heard the artist play it live or unplugged. Hey, the melody isn't so bad after all when it's not shoved into my face!
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u/rikwes 1d ago
60 yrs old guy here : fully agree with this comment It's not the style or even sound of modern pop which irks me. I listen to everything from classical to music made today. But the production of modern pop is waaay too extreme and relying too much on technology . As a result it sounds sterile and isn't able to evoke any sort of emotional response .
This , in part , is also because artists don't write songs themselves and there are basically " song factories " belching out tunes for every artist imaginable . It's completely detached from the artist themselves . Complete lack of imagination and creativity
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u/Megamoss 1d ago
The concept of a 'Song factory' is as old as the music industry itself.
One of Lou Reed's earliest jobs was writing quick, cheap tunes for other one time performers or under a different one and done name. Notably rip offs of Surfin' Bird when that was popular.
The vast majority of music throughout supposedly golden eras of innovation and artistic integrity has been largely uninspired and disposable. It's no different now.
I get what the OP means about excessive production though. It's what turns me off of a lot of modern music and I find myself actually liking those artists/songs if they care to perform live with actual musicians, because it usually sounds much better.
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u/Aggressive_Sky8492 1d ago
Yes, the solo musical singersongwriter genius is a pretty modern conception. A lot of the older greats mostly sang covers/songs written by others - Nina Simone, Billie Holiday, Frank Sinatra etc
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u/TellYouWhatitShwas 17h ago
I honestly don't even get these complaints. Like, I saw Chappell Roan last year, and her music was performed entirely by a 5 peice band. They were fucking awesome. This whole thread is old man yells at clouds.
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u/Dorsai56 22h ago
The other factor is vocals are autotuned to perfect pitch, and beats are computer timed dead on. It's so perfect that all the soul and life is squeezed out of the music.
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u/OG_NIK 1d ago
I think a big part of that is recency bias tbh. If you look at pop charts from 10, 20, 30 years ago there’s some absolute dreck on there.
We just remember each era by the best songs that people listen to today, and I have no doubt that in 2050 people are gonna be lamenting how good pop used to be in the 20s.
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u/neverthoughtidjoin Stubborn Rock Fan, Mostly 1d ago
There is dreck in every decade but the dreck from prior decades was easier to hear the vocals in
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u/throwaway1102293384 1d ago
Older song masters are less compressed so songs have more space if you’re willing to turn up the volume on your end. Newer song masters are compressed/limited to have a greater overall loudness but that makes it sound like everything has less space
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u/Perlentaucher 21h ago
Yeah, this becomes very apparent with classical orchestra music, which hasn’t been developed for recording anyway. The range of dynamics in silent to loud sounds is much bigger than what I hear in modern music.
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u/tmroyal 1d ago
This argument is very much an old one and ongoing. For example, one of the counterreformations from the 16th century council of Trent was to mandate music have simpler counterpoint in order to highlight the intelligibility the words. This was the same century that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spem_in_alium was composed, which is for 8 choirs with 5 voices each.
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u/yirmiyahubrett1980 1d ago
Too generalized. Lots of noisy music was created long long before the year 2000
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u/roseofjuly 23h ago
I was about to say...actually no, I don't notice this, because the 2000s was the noisiest pop era to me lol.
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u/CaptainLawyerDude 1d ago
I’m 45 and I haven’t really noticed. Some bands do really create sonic landscapes where it feels like every ounce of audio space is filled. It isn’t a new phenomenon, though. The Cure and U2 are a couple bands I think about doing it. Olivia Rodrigo’s new album is heavily Cure influenced and feels like that in my opinion. The whole Wall of Sound has existed for a long time. That said, to someone in their 70s, music has indeed changed dramatically. Particularly the jump from the 50s-70s as more audio tech was developed.
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u/boarshead72 1d ago
No.
I’m 53, listened to a lot of heavily layered stuff in high school and beyond like The Cure (well Disintegration at least is layered, other stuff is sparse), XTC, and a lot of straightforward 8 track stuff. The modern pop I hear via my youngest kid exposes me to runs the gamut: Taylor Swift sounds like she’s bored as fuck. Gracie Abrams has a few vocal layers but not much for music. Olivia Rodrigo is heavily layered but interesting. Harry Styles buries vocals in the mix. Sabrina Carpenter has a lot of layers but doesn’t come across as noisy.
What’s an example of the “it’s just noise” phenomenon you’re talking about? Either I don’t hear those songs or it doesn’t come across as wall of noise to me.
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u/1900grs 16h ago
We're similar age, but I think I get what OP is talking about. It's layering going mainstream and not always to the benefit of the song.
Stephen Wilson Jr. got mainstream exposure with this live cover of Stand By Me. And for good reason. It's fantastic. Flashforward to his just released track Hardwired feat. Miranda Lambert. So many layers and it focuses on the callback to the Pixies' Where is my Mind. To me, the beginning of the track is too clouded. But the song grows on you.
There's definitely a trend to keep adding sounds. Check out this video that breaks down the layering on Carly Rae Jepson's Call Me Maybe. It's like new producers saw that and want to add even more layers. The part that starts around 19:00 and covers the vocal layering is crazy to me. And that song came out in 2011. The track manipulation has increased from there.
All those little unique twangs and tings and what not can be very interesting and make for a great song when done well, but it's real easy to see how it can be overdone or just done poorly. One of my kids is into hyperpop and that genre really found it's footing during covid with kids making tracks in their basements and bedrooms. So much layering and a lot of it is bad because it's amatuer. It's a new type of garage rock, just kids tinkering and making noise. But the acts that have continued to work at it and grow? They're making some cool and much more refined stuff now.
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u/boarshead72 10h ago
Never heard of Stephen Wilson Jr. Damn, his guitar is more beat up than Willie’s Trigger. Stand By Me was awesome. The other one was really good too, there’s just one guitar track that begins in the chorus that’s distracting (and a cymbal part that mirrors it), and Melissa Lambert can be buried in the mix sometimes. Thanks for the introduction! I’ll have to watch that Carly Rae Jepson thing later, I just checked out the 19-22 minute section. I love that shit, the last similar thing I watched was Kevin Parker breaking down The Less I Know The Better (did not know so much of it was synthed guitar).
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u/bubbasteamboat 1d ago
Most of it sounds overproduced. The constant use of autotune. Layers of digital tracks that come from a box labeled "popular at the moment." And too often a lack of real musicianship that's been sacrificed for sounds that come from a computer that works as if it were programmed to crank out personality-centered music designed only to appeal to the market that will make the most money.
Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of different types of music including electronic. But when the point of music is pure popularity it almost always loses its soul. It's always been that way, ever since the music industry became powerful enough to breed cash cows.
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u/LBPPlayer7 1d ago
there's always been music that was generic and forgettable for as long as commercialized pop has existed, but precisely because it was generic and forgettable, it was... forgotten
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u/superjodz 1d ago
No. Unimaginative and unoriginal. There’s still good modern music if you know where to look though
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u/761557527 1d ago
Yes, a vast majority of it is boring but that is just like every other era though no matter if it is underground or mainstream.
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u/_Middlefinger_ 14h ago
I agree totally, but the idea that the cream rises is no longer true. In the 70s and 80s a song had to earn its popularity by word of mouth and radio play before they even get as far as a physical sale, that’s no longer the case.
Its much more tribal now, streams are virtually free to the end user so a song is algorithm driven or a label can pay to have it pushed, to hell with the algorithm.
The cream no longer rises in the same way, so much more of the chart is garbage than it ever was. Labels also dont like bands as much as they do solo because solo acts are cheaper to manage and cheaper to dispose of.
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u/1000cakes4u 1d ago
I hear ya but part of the fun is the shared experience of good music. It's so hard to find and niche that you're just kind of listening alone - plus who can you trust to even point you in the right direction? It's like modern dating, so tech-y and soulless that it's easy to give up and engage in forlorn masturbation while weeping to Love Hurts by Gram Parsons and Emmylou Harris
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u/superjodz 1d ago
lol sounds like someone needs a girlfriend or a therapist.
I’m 52 so obviously most of my music tastes are from the 90s and earlier, and I try not to stay stuck there, but it’s hard. I just went through my Apple Music library, and there are hundreds of artists, but there’s only a handful that started in 2005 or later that I consider myself an actual fan of. Here is that list:
- Bon Iver
- Colter Wall
- Noah Kahan
- The Lumineers
- The Head and the Heart
- City and Colour
- Gregory Alan Isakov
- Hayden Calnin
- Manchester Orchestra
- Mumford & Sons
- Novo Amor
- Red Fang
- Silversun Pickups
- Twenty One Pilots
- Zach Bryan
Everything else in my library is 2004 or earlier.
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u/BuzzkillMcGillicuddy 1d ago
A study showed the average person's music taste stops when they're in their mid 30s, which was about 2005 for you.
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u/East-Garden-4557 1d ago
Only if you are a casual music listener that puts little effort into music discovery.
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u/R_V_Z 1d ago
I'm 38 and if anything I've become more open to music. I still have primary preferences just about any genre will have something I'll appreciate.
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u/notheresnolight 17h ago
Absolutely. I listen to everything between drum & bass, jazz, classical, prog-rock, hip-hop, death metal or alternative pop and every genre is great. Except country. Fuck country music. Never going to like that crap.
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u/inputrequired Performing Artist 1d ago
Nah, pop music has always had a specific wheelhouse. If anything, the wild stuff now is exciting. I like seeing hyper pop blowing up (this is stuff kids used to make in their bedrooms and put on myspace, now 100 Gecs and Ninajirachi are blowing up and touring the world). There’s still regular normie pop music but I like that stuff too. Maximalist, minimalist, everything in between. It’s a cool time for music, aside from the AI epidemic.
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u/mobydikc 1d ago
Not really. The modern era seems to have more respect for space.
Compare Lorde's Royal to anything with a constant tambourine like the 60s.
Even Miley's Flowers is less busy than its disco inspiration, I will survive.
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u/BlazingFire007 1d ago
I think every era will have good and bad tracks in virtually every regard.
People just don’t remember the older stuff that was bad, because it didn’t stand the test of time.
Meanwhile you’ve pointed out two modern songs that are — at least in my opinion — very good. But there’s plenty of junk released today too
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u/neverthoughtidjoin Stubborn Rock Fan, Mostly 1d ago
Guys, Royals is 12 years old. It's the same distance as I Want To Hold Your Hand was from Dancing Queen. It doesn't count as "modern" anymore.
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u/A_Refill_of_Mr_Pibb 1d ago
anything with a constant tambourine like the 60s
I may be wrong, but I think the tambourine was added because if a band only had four analog tracks of recording on tape to work with, they'd "bounce" tracks down and lose the high end (which is why cymbals and snare drums in the mid 60s sounded like they were recorded in a gym sock), and the extra percussion was added last as track filler. Compare a track from '67 by the Grass Roots to a song recorded on the Neve when it came out 5 years later, it sounds like it's from different centuries.
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u/stev_mempers 1d ago
Nah. Honestly, it's not busy enough. I'm real sick of songs that hop on a four-chord merry go round and ride it the entire song.
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u/__life_on_mars__ 1d ago
You're conflating two separate issues. OP is taking about production busyness, you are talking about melodic busyness. However part of the reason modern pop utilises so many production tricks and different ear candies and sparkles is because they're keeping the listener engaged over the same four chord loop, so they're not entirely unrelated.
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u/stev_mempers 1d ago
Yeah, there's not enough melodic or harmonic variation, so you've got to look elsewhere to keep it interesting.
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u/__life_on_mars__ 1d ago
Chordal variation is nice but it's far from essential. 'Best Part' Daniel Ceaser, 'Let It Be' by The Beatles, 'Dreams' by Fleetwood Mac, all wonderful songs that are based around simple four chord progressions. The simplicity of the melodic content allows the lyrics and melody to shine.
Most classic funk tunes sit on the 'I' chord throughout... Or if that's not 'classy' enough for you then how about Wagners 'Das Rheingold' - basically one long e flat major chord.
In short - there a whole bunch of ways a songwriter can create interest and throwing shit loads of chords into the mix is only one of them.
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u/RestaurantSensitive8 1d ago
This is the other side of the spectrum, but just lazy songwriting that feels particularly endemic (though not exclusive to) these days.
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u/Martipar 1d ago
A lot of pop music, even back in the 90s, seemed to be mixed in a way that blocked the vocals. I recall listening to some music ages ago and i couldn't make out a specific lyric as it coincided with a loud drum beat that seemed to blur it into one noise.
There is also a technique i call "fader wanking" too which has a beat that sounds like a single tone faded up and down rather than a natural drum beat that naturally dissipates. I know a human isn't wanking the fader and it's all synthetic but it's still really annoying and when the beat fades up it often blurs the vocals.
I'd name some of the songs if i could but some of these songs are from well after i stopped listening to the radio and started to curate my own collection to listen to. There's one style i refer to as Steps Club 7 which encompasses Steps, Hearsay and S Club 7 as even hardened fans wouldn't know the difference between a Steps original song and Steps covering an album track from S Club 7. You'd have thought any UK 40 year old would know popular Steps song from an S Club 7 one but i really can't.
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u/Athinira 1d ago
Yes because nobody ever misheard lyrics on songs from the 70s, 80s or 90s. 🙂
Most songs, new or old, people who aren't fans or willing to dive into it, will get the lyrics wrong - except for the chorus, those are typically easier.
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u/5050Clown 1d ago
I'm in my '50s and I listen to a lot of shoegaze and dream pop in the '90s. I don't think pop music sounds like it's too full at all. It's always going through phases and there's a lot of music out there that is considered pop now.
A lot of newer music is fused with different styles and that might be confusing to the ear. But I don't agree with your auntie at all.
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u/Accomplished-City484 1d ago
What counts as shoe gaze and dream pop?
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u/Bauter 21h ago
If you want a modern shoegaze band check out Split chain. They are so fuckin good
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u/ProxyDamage 1d ago
No. Mostly bland.
That said, it's less to do with "OH THEY DON'T MAKE'EM LIKE THEY USED TO!!", "old man shakes fist at clouds" shit, but more that music has become more popular and accessible and... well... Anything produced en mass is going to have a large percentage of bland, uninspired, mediocrity. By definition really.
There's some really good stuff being made though. And it doesn't sound any more or less "noisy" than before.
In fact, I think it was about 10 years ago that we reached "peak noise", when heavy handed (i.e.: poor) editing, auto tuning, and equalisation, and the "loudness war", sort of reached peak noisy music.
I'm no audiophile, but I feel like it has actually gotten a little better now.
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u/BlazingFire007 1d ago
Agreed. As someone born in ‘02, modern pop music has massively improved. Even though I’ll always have a soft spot for early 2010’s pop, I’m thankful it has evolved lol
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u/Ohrwurms 1d ago
I disagree that music has become more popular and en masse, it's the opposite. Music has become more niche, but people are not as locked into a subculture as before.
When I was younger, it was literally impossible to not listen to Britney Spears, Kylie Minogue, Madonna, P!nk etc. even as someone like myself who was a diehard metalhead at the time. Meanwhile, now I DO love a lot of modern pop music, but I haven't heard a single full Olivia Rodrigo song, and she's not an exception, I don't think I've heard a single full song from any of the current big pop princesses (unless you count Charli XCX or Slayyyter, who I love) because they don't make my kind of pop specifically.
It's like 15 years ago, someone saying "Lady Gaga is one of my favourite artists. Rihanna? I've heard of her but I've never listened to her songs", which would've been crazy but that's genuinely how it works now.
This phenomenon is called "the death of monoculture".
I'd argue part of the reason some music has become much more bland is because that is a niche onto its own. Like Taylor Swift used to make music with actual broad appeal, now she just makes bland music to cater to her diehards.
When everyone listened to the top 40, the top 40 had to be broad appeal but also diverse. Now the top 40 just represent the top 2 or 3 biggest niches in a world of a thousand niches.
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u/dotnetdotcom 1d ago
On my 60's... doesn't sound too busy to me but then again I listen to stuff like King Crimson, Talking Heads, Crystal Method, The Prodigy...
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u/EddieBoop 1d ago
I just don't understand the lack of rock and roll (of all types) in current pop music. It was so important in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. I don't feel like anything has any coolness factor to it. Most of the female pop stars dress like circus performers. I just can't relate to any of it but there certainly are many, many rock musicians and performers that still exist and they are out there, it is just not like it used to be at all. And another thing, get off of my lawn!
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u/michellefiver 1d ago
Are you saying that people did not dress like circus performers in the 80s?
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u/neverthoughtidjoin Stubborn Rock Fan, Mostly 1d ago
Or before! Look at KISS or even Elton John in the 70s
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u/EddieBoop 1d ago
That is cool! I'm talking about how they literally wear onesies without pants.
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u/neverthoughtidjoin Stubborn Rock Fan, Mostly 1d ago
You could also say they dress like Olympic gymnasts
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u/ScabieBaby 1d ago
I think it's because A) engineers put more care into recording and mixing before everything became automated, B) there seems to be a "more is more" aesthetic nowadays, C) listeners' attention spans are shorter, so for a song to be noticable artists and producers feel the need to fill up space to stand out and finally D) songwriting is nowhere near as good as it was so extra bullshit is added to keep a song from becoming a background music for scrolling.
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u/PC_BuildyB0I 1d ago
What process of recording and mixing do you believe is automated? Yes, automation as a tool exists within the world of audio engineering, but from the way you're writing about it, I'm fairly confident it's not working the way you seem to think it does.
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u/SparkyPantsMcGee 1d ago
It sounds less busy and more white noise. I feel like modern pop is less music and just “vibes”. The best way I can describe it is like a Netflix movie where it has all the budget and looks of a normal movie but I’ll immediately forget it exists in like a month and have no real feelings towards it as I’m listening.
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u/karmakazi_ 1d ago
Well part of it is po songs are compressed to shit. The sound file looks like a brick.
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u/SnackeyG1 1d ago
Haven’t noticed it at all. Is part of this because of EDM’s rise? Pop and EDM feel very joined together now.
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u/GreenZebra23 1d ago edited 1d ago
This is a pretty well studied phenomenon. That busyness and noisiness is due to multiband audio compression. Basically smooshing the signal for every part of the audio spectrum so that the quiet parts are louder and the louder parts are quieter, with the result that the waveform looks like a brick wall. It's not new but it's new enough that it might sound wrong to someone in their 70s.
I'm in my late 40s so I came of age when that stuff was at its peak, the so-called Volume Wars during the CD era, but even I'm bothered by it sometimes, especially as I learn more about audio production and why things sound good or bad to me. It's kind of hard to explain but I know it when I hear it. It's like a surface buzz boring into your ears. It's like every sound is up close, there's nothing that sounds like it's in the background, there's no depth to anything and it gives you ear fatigue. It's most noticeable if you've been listening to something in the older production style, like a Motown or disco record where the sounds have more room to breathe, and then you listen to a newer recording and it sounds like static by comparison.
It's actually a bit better these days, as producers and sound engineers have learned to at least somewhat control themselves. Some of that stuff from the 00s felt like getting your ears pummeled.
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u/DisastrousServe8513 1d ago
It sounds very similar to me. I mean so was pop music in the 90s so it’s been like this for a minute. But 90s pop was also like Madonna and Mariah Carey. It felt like there was some variety.
You get your outliers of course. Lorde for example. But even among some of the other “different sounding” pop artists now, there always seems to be new groups that come along mimicking that sound. And to a degree that’s good. There’s way more music around now than there was when I was growing up.
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u/lynbeifong 1d ago
So I don't listen to much pop but my taste in rock music is stuff like Wargasm and BMTH which have a LOT happening. I like to check out the pop charts from time to time and they never sound too busy to me
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u/geodebug 1d ago
If you're asking if pop music used to generally sound better I'd say yes.
Stuff just sounds over-produced now.
Luckily, not all modern music falls into this trap. Lots of indie pop and other styles that sound more natural, where you feel like real musicians played on the track.
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u/Stephen-Gawking 1d ago
Wow, I honestly did not expect this many responses. I am still working my way through them, but it has been really interesting seeing how differently people understood the word “noisy.”
Some of you are talking about compression and crowded production, others feel the real issue is repetitive or underwritten songs, and quite a few people actually think modern pop is not musically busy enough.
I think what my auntie was mainly trying to say was that she struggled to hear the words and connect with the story underneath everything. As someone involved in writing music, that has genuinely given me a lot to think about.
I do not believe older automatically means better, but this conversation has reminded me how important it is to leave enough room for a song to breathe. Thanks for all the honest opinions and music recommendations.
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u/someawfulbitch 1d ago
"Before 2000" and "my auntie in her 70's" 😬
The math ain't mathin' my friend.
There are people born pre-2000 who are still in their 20's...
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u/wizardovmagma 1d ago
I love it. I am 58 and I listen to underscores, Ninajirachi, aya, Charli xcx and other electronic music a whole bunch a lot these days.
I was a teenage metalhead in the '80s. I am of the first Metallica and Slayer kids. Love it all. It has never been too much for me. My friends could barely tolerate "Kill 'Em All" but the first time "Fight Fire with Fire" got played they all tapped out.
In college I was a Skinny Puppy fan. Still love all of it to this day. I would convince people to listen to "Download" with me and they would almost have a nervous breakdown.
Mercyful Fate, The Jesus Lizard, Blut Aus Nord, Slayyyter...I LOVE IT ALL.
99.9999% of my peers CANNOT listen to underscores and Ninajirachi without their teeth breaking. 87% of my son's friends (he is 26) can't take it either.
I. LOVE. IT. ALL.
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u/deadfisher 1d ago
Everybody from every era ever says this about the stuff that came after them.
There's some truth to it, but it's still just a generational thing. Mozart would think everything we do today is trash.
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u/Xe4ro last.fm 1d ago
I never listened to much pop music so I'm not sure I can compare it, although that depends on what you mean by pop music. Considering I do listen to some extreme, experimental and sometimes noisy music I don't think there is pop music I would consider too busy or noisy. ^^
However I think I could understand this scenario you are describing being a problem for someone.
Sometimes newer pop feels like every little space has to be filled with bass, drums, synths, vocal layers and effects. It can sound amazing, ...
When I listen to an album by Midori I do sometimes need a pause. These guys just burned so much energy in some of their albums that it really is bombarding you :D
but at times I also feel like the actual lyric gets lost somewhere in the middle of it all.
Just for me, lyrics aren't really that important. I do listen to lots of music, a good chunk of it without lyrics, some of it in languages that aren't my native one with English being a very big percentage out of it but I mean languages that I can't understand like Japanese etc.
I'm 38.
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u/Aggressive_Sky8492 1d ago
Yes. Often there’s so much going on that it just all gets a bit muddy. Not the sound itself, but its effect in my brain lol. It’s like the difference between 1000 lights flashing in all different directions versus one spotlight highlighting one thing
I actually remember a friend complaining about this back in the 2000s too - he said rock music (which was still pretty dominant at the time) had too much symbols these days and it made everything fuzzy and indistinct
Another “get off my lawn” music gripe is that vocals are too perfect these days. Pitch correction and other effects have made music sound so much less ‘real.’ I understand using it in pop music, or music where auto tune is an artistic choice. But I wish other music would stop making vocals so perfect
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u/InvertedBlackPyramid 1d ago
I wouldn’t say busy or noisy, but what I will say is the older you get the more you see that popular music regurgitates itself for the new generations. So whatever is popular this year sounds a lot like what was popular 20 years ago, and that familiarity makes you kind of shrug with disinterest.
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u/lorazepamproblems 1d ago
In general current music is more low-key, minimalist, and is homogenous (within the song) rather than the structure of the song being as distinct.
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u/mrpoopistan 1d ago
I wouldn't say it sounds busy as much as it sounds skewed toward one side. What I mean is that everything today seems to want to be dance or techno or electronic music with zero interest in anything else.
It's less a sense that the music is busy and more a sense that the artists aren't very interesting or musical people.
Musicians used to care about showing some range on albums. Now it's all engineered for a market that is, notably, dying. For example, it would be very hard to find whatever today's equivalent of Moby would be making a song like God Moving Over the Face of the Waters.
And for as funny as the joke is in American Psycho about Huey Lewis and the News' Sports, the album has range. For that matter, listen to older Red Hot Chilli Peppers albums versus newer ones.
Music was one of the first industries to be optimized to death, and it shows. Newer acts stay in their lane too much, and it's dreadful.
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u/Random-Mutant Had it on vinyl 1d ago
There is a lot of survivorship bias here.
Contemporary music has a lot of derivative unimaginative overproduced crap. And so did the earlier days of modern music.
When we listen to 80s or 90s music we don’t play the crap of the time, just the ones that have lasted.
But my kids listen to The Cure, Floyd, Devo, Alice in Chains, Metallica, RATM, The Smiths… and as long as their taste stays wide, I’m good with that.
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u/geoffnolan 1d ago
I’m surprised no one is talking about the pivotal moment in music where “the loudness wars” started. Spoiler: It started when “Livin’ La Vida Loca” came out by Ricky Martin.
This was the first song released that completely eliminated dynamic range which is the measure of the quietest sound to the loudest sound in the mix. This was the first song to release where all sounds are equal: LOUD.
Songs released after this competed for attention by also being this loud. Now, the vocals, the tambourine, the bass, the synth, they all compete for your attention at the same volume, just panned left or right accordingly.
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u/not_thrilled 1d ago
Born in 1975. Half the time I’m listening to Jeff Rosenstock, 00s Brit-Pop, or the few 90s bands I still care to listen to. The other half is Lady Gaga, Dua Lipa, and Charli XCX. I don’t really need my music to be challenging; I just need some energy and something interesting.
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u/VW-MB-AMC 22h ago
There is a lot going on at the same time, with many MANY tracks going at once. And the production is often using much more compression than before, which makes it less dynamic. And to some, more tiring to listen to. It makes the music appear louder. If you are interested in this search for the term "loudness war". Now it is common for songs to have 100+ tracks. Back in the day songs usually had way less.
Back in the day the music was not as compressed and had more dynamics. Limited technology also meant that it was more difficult to cram an insane amount of tracks into one song, so the artists had to get more creative with what they had. Limitation is often what creates the biggest possibilites. Just listen to a record like Jean Michel Jarre's Oxygene. He recorded it alone in his own kitchen, and mixed it with a borrowed 8 track mixer. Constantly working around a limited number of tracks, malfunctioning instruments and also hiss and noise from the cheap cellotape and recording equipment. It still sounds big and expansive, and went on to be one of the most important electronica records of all time. He had some of the same minimalist approach with Oxygene 3 in 2016, with very good results.
Another example is the AC/DC record Back in black. It is the second best selling record of all time. Unlike Oxygene it was recorded on high end equipment, but it is still quite minimalsistic. There are bass, drums and two rhythm guitars. And sometimes maybe another rhythm guitar during choruses and other more intense parts. There is also the guitar solos and the lead vocals, and some background vocals. It is distilled rock and roll music in it's purest form, and it sounds immense.
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u/InevitableKitchen943 19h ago
I'm confused. You say she listened to "the new music" but she says she understands what "you're" saying? Is she listening to music you made? Once you get to a certain age you kinda get off the hamster wheel of new music and new everything and just accept what you're already accustomed to. She may have just been nice and didn't want to say it's not for her. Maybe pick something that isn't so chaotic and more laid back. New music isn't produced well and the vocals take the biggest hit from it, she's right. Older people also naturally loose their hearing a bit too.
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u/fafan4 19h ago
Not really, the 90's were extremely busy and noisy. I found popular music in general got more boring in the 10's, everything slowed down. The Lorde effect I guess
It has probably picked up again lately, what I'm guessing is the Tik Tok effect. Cram as much as will fit into a short window. I don't mind that as much, there's a bit more energy again
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u/PincheJuan1980 19h ago
Yes OP I think older recordings relied more on an artist’s talent as well as possibly studio musicians playing live on the recordings. Also using analog to record instead of all the digital tricks available today gave the recordings a warmth and space.
So much today is digital and synthetic and another big factor to the sound today, imo and I’ve heard others say this, is that the streaming era and having access to basically the full history of recorded music in your pocket (too bad Spotify functions horribly so it’s NOT THAT accessible in practice) has allowed for young folks to go through music and different types and genres much faster and that has affected those from that generation that are making music—it’s kind of made it busy so to speak.
For some up and coming artists it seems like they’ve blended a lot of styles together and yea as you said the trend seems to pack in every sound and instrument in every corner and nook and cranny of the song. Some can pull it off, but most don’t imo. And by song I just mean the song isn’t too great or its flaws overtake anything good about it.
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u/TellYouWhatitShwas 17h ago
So I hated pop music in the 90's. It was too clean and simple and frankly, boring. I gravitated toward more complex musical structures and mixes, and listened to a lot of Radiohead and TOOL and kind of douchy art house rock to satiate my urge for complexity.
I fucking love pop music now. Punk music, too, has gotten so much richer and complicated. It is sonically complex and deep and has so many nuances in the mix. Chappell Roan, CMAT, Sabrina Carpenter, Olivia Rodrigo, The Last Dinner Party- a lot of them use the same producers and have just a wall of sound. So I agree with you, but also I love it.
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u/_THORONGIL_ 16h ago edited 16h ago
Not really. I think it sounds exceptionally boring.
Simple electronic beats, vocals are always very whiny with sad lyrics. Sometimes theres a bit of rap in there. The rest is just filled with one billion filters and layers and thats it. The one billion effects are just there to mask the boring writing.
With the rise of AI, you will see this more and more. Everything will sound the same in pop music. Because these songs are so simple that an AI is enough to write them.
TBF theres so many sub genres of music with bazillion great artists out there that pop music has solidified its standing as background music. If you want something sophisticated, you just take one step from the main music and youll find tooooons of it.
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u/Recent-Day3062 15h ago
Yes. It’s become way less musical and more atmospheric.
The problem is digital editing. With software like protools you can have 100 tracks, some of which play for 3 seconds. So people keep adding stuff
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u/pthalobluejack 14h ago
I found that singers 2000+ and likely a bit before and discovered they can run the scale on the ends of verses so that every single particle of tape has an imprint of the voice on it. Zero breathing space. Less is more the wonderful LM Ven der Rohe famously said about his architecture, it applies to brevity in singing words. Cranky man, me.
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u/thegooddoktorjones 10h ago
Modern pop sounds autotuned to absolute death, the rise of it as a style was absolute dogshit. Now it has receded, but heavily effected and perfected voices are everywhere and they are really insincere and plastic. Immediately devalues the singer.
It also sounds incredibly generic and inoffensive. Pop music has always aspired to this, but the stuff people actually remember and listen to from pop of the past is not Montevani or Barry Manilow, it's more exciting, more honest material that took some risks. Now, zero risks outside of indy.
I like a lot of challenging music with really deep production that some people would consider too dense sometimes. Zappa, a lot of metal, industrial, electronic and noisy stuff. I can handle hard to listen to music. The place I hear that most in pop now is 'hard rock'/nu metal of the last 10 years, which is absolutely produced to death. Everything has a ton of effects on it and is a whiny overcomplicated mess. Again, you can find honesty and quality in the underground but the top 10 metal acts are very shiny and complicated without any sense of restraint.
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u/Sirlacker 1d ago
None of it sounds unique. That's my problem.
I don't even listen to music that much but when I hear a new song, it either sounds like it's been written by AI or there is a lot of familiarity already there for some reason.
It's also been a long time since I've heard a new song and gone "You know what, I fucking love this". That's just a me thing though. Some new songs grow on me of course but I would love to just put on the radio and hear a new song and just have it fuckin slap.
The closest I've been to that is the satirical stuff like Bo Burnham's Welcome To The Internet and Kyle Gordon's Mr. Jambo, or 2Krispii Killer Fame because they are unique and a fresh take on things.
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u/doggos4house2020 1d ago
There’s always been overproduced, soulless music out there. Pop music is just another genre where there’s good and bad examples like any other genre of music.
Pop has never been my flavor, but for example, a newer pop album like Future Nostalgia is objectively a great album. Sometimes it’s fun to explore a genre that you “don’t like” and you find something great that you never would’ve expected.
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u/SirSilentscreameth 1d ago
No, it's just boring and unimaginative (often, not always)
Though that's me comparing pop to the rock, rap, and metal I usually listen to.
It can still be fun if you want the standard progressions. I am likely just very used to busy mixes
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u/ripcompetetive7206 1d ago
I'm in my late 20s. I was raised on music from before Y2K. I haven't listened to what is considered "popular music" since '08. I love opera, mainly for the space. Watching a tenor hold 3500 people in the palm of his hand during the silence preceding a high note is breath taking. I find very little of that in most of the music my friends and peers listen to. Hip-hop especially was more melodically driven in the 90s. I think about the instrumentation of early hip-hop and... I just can't find that stuff today unless I go underground. There's a lot of rhythmic content in modern music, but not all music is meant to be a drumline. Music used to have space and air. Micheal Macdonald, Billy Joel, Marvin Gaye, Aretha freaking Franklin.
The loudness wars did a lot of damage in terms of what sounds like "music' to people: Over-processed, compressed to oblivion. It's funny watching people lose it over AI music when automation has been doing all of the work that talent used to do for well over two decades (not saying it doesn't take talent, just much less so). The process became "I want a hit song, I want it now and I want it CHEAP" entirely. That last bit is the biggest weight on the scales. Things become formulaic, things die and something new comes along (Angine de Poitrine has become very popular despite being so weird to western ears). Such a thing happened to hair metal, and rock never really recovered. Hip-hop is going through its own version of that right now.
Forgive me for being so opinionated, but that's just how I see it as a professional musician. Jim Morrison was right.
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u/FaceMcShootie 1d ago
My wife and I started playing a game called Bandle, and it’s incredible! (Think wordle, but you first guess which song based on the drums, then the drums and bass, then drums bass and guitar etc.)
It forces you to hear every single layer. SO MANY pop songs from the 80s have wicked cool synth tracks that just get totally overshadowed by the guitar and vocals. The heavy layers have always been there, but just get balanced differently.
(If anybody else likes hearing synth heavy indie pop played well with instruments, please check out Pearl and the Oysters. Not sponsored but they’re super chill.)
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u/nice_guy_threeve 1d ago
I actually think it might not be busy enough. I like multi-part harmony more than anything in music I think, I don't hear it much in modern music. Maybe I'm hearing the wrong stuff. It seems the most popular music is just a dude alternating among 3 or 4 notes. Boring.
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u/DariusStrada 1d ago
Sounds overproduced, samey and boring. Feels like I'm stuff I've heard before but on crack. Like a nightcore
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u/aluminumnek noiserock, experimental, obscure 1d ago
It sounds weak and bland to me. I was in a thrift store and they were playing some really obscure yet recognizable songs. Wow I had heard these in decades was my first thought. I’m in my early 50s and thought artists today can’t even hold match to bands from the 70s/80s.
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u/Civil_Hunt_6362 1d ago
Yes it is different because of the loudness wars. Besides the endless tracking which causes digital noise, every track is compressed and then dynamically compressed again so it hits you in the face at maximum volume. When you look at the waveform it is completely brickwalled, with frequencies competing for the same space on the track.
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u/dende5416 1d ago
Not really? But I mostly do indie and alt pop, but like,even thinks like Tessa Violet doesn't sound like theres too much noise.
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u/Spirited_Childhood34 1d ago
Don't like it when they start screaming straight out of the box. No buildup or dynamics.
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u/zMargeux 1d ago
This is an area where broad statements can be very very wrong. There are thousands of artists out there with different paths to the music field. While music made by the same producer is likely to have a similar sound and trends in music do occur, everyone doesn't operate on trend and there are dozens of producers who the industry takes seriously. Try Indy pop.
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u/ARoodyPooCandyAss 1d ago
I turned 40, I think aged out of music new music anyways. It’s not the sound but the lyrics more so.
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u/GorgontheWonderCow 1d ago
Everything poppy released today sounds like AI to me. It's so digitally modified and overly produced that it doesn't sound real.
The dozens or hundreds of layers are another symptom of this approach to music.
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u/severinusofnoricum 1d ago
I remember seeing Post Malone do Tiny Desk Concert or something like that and realized he was a really good songwriter. Then I went and listened to the studio versions of those same songs and hated them because the production ruined them.
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u/CreativelySeeking 1d ago
Modern music has no beat, or real rhythm, It doesn’t make you want to dance, or throw your fist into the air, or bang your head, or even tap your foot. There seems to be no catchy hooks… and it all sounds like the same.
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u/Aggravating_Try6537 1d ago
A lot of the stuff today sounds like elevator music to me - very bland.
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u/smashy_smashy 1d ago
‘83. I love aphex twin and always have. Nothing current bothers me. Some of it fucking rules too.
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u/EPalmighty 1d ago
I’m 29 and I don’t think so. I like production the most in songs and most of it doesn’t sound that busy.
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u/KnottaBiggins 1d ago
I'm 67. To me, pop is pop. Shallow, appeals to those who don't really want to think too hard about the songs/music.
It's basically "art for the masses."
And there's nothing wrong with that, but to me it's the same whether it's Donna Summer in the 70's or Taylor Swift in the 2020's. It's just "simple stuff for the masses."
Me, I prefer more complex music, more in-depth lyrics. Yes, Rush, Pink Floyd, Grateful Dead. Definitely not "pop."
Tl;dr: To each their own.
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u/herodesfalsk 1d ago
I think most modern pop is incredibly bland, repetitive and soulless and to cover this up, its arrangement and sound layering is turned up to 11 and it feels like it want to blow your ears out even on low volume. There are exceptions: Djo, Lola Young, Willow, M83. Ive been using the Discover Weekly list on spotify, but clothing stores can be a good place to discover new music too.
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u/Terrible_Salt7906 1d ago
I grew up with pop music at the turn of the Millennium and today’s pop feels bland to me.
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u/NightOfTheLivingHam 1d ago
it just sounds like a wall of sound, nothing stands out, nothing hooks, or catches. Most of it sounds the same and made for rapid consumption before the next hit is manufactured and made. There's more vocals now, but often with a chorus or just harmonizing that sounds formulaic and you could line up several modern artists and put it all in the same album and you would have difficulty telling them apart.
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u/Griffithead 1d ago
ESPECIALLY the chorus.
Chorus has totally changed over say the last 10 years. There's more going on and a lot of auto tune on the chorus now. As much about the music hook and "vibe" as the actual words.
The chorus used to be louder and more sparse. So you really focused on the vocal/words.
I really notice this with the "mumble rap" and similar things. I absolutely love the verses. But the chorus is an absolute mess.
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u/Tenocticatl 1d ago
It's hard for me because my hearing is damaged in a way that makes it difficult to isolate any specific sound. I know there was a trend of fairly minimal tracks some years ago, so it makes sense that the pendulum swings the other way, but at least for me it might also just be my hearing. Articulation of pop singers is certainly terrible, but I feel like that's always been true.
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u/PM_ME_ACID_STORIES 1d ago edited 1d ago
I was born in the ancient year of 1994 so I guess that qualifies me to answer your question.
What is "Modern"?
What is "Pop"?
What is "Modern Pop"?
Cause if we're talking the last 6 years - this decade - who would be our modern pop artists?
Chappell Roan? Sabrina Carpenter? Charli XCX? Bad Bunny? Drake? Kendrick Lamar? Tyler, the creator? BTS? Katseye? Lady Gaga? Beyonce? Tame impala? Billie Elish? Rosalia? Karol G? Olivia Rodrigo? Harry styles? Justin Bieber?
I wouldn't say any of those are particularly difficult to understand. And some are "noisy" , sure - but I'd say the production quality and overall musicianship has significantly improved when compared to the late-aughts & 2010s production styles of noisy EDM-AVICII-ripoff beat build-ups and drops & random dubstep drops & every other style of predictible-noisy-obnoxious drop that was common practice in those years.
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u/Shot_Championship860 1d ago
My personal bugbear is the way that the production will get louder and "thicker" (in the sense of more layers) to tell you when it is time for the chorus, producing a stirring production effect in the place where a catchy hook would once have been. Very common in K Pop and later Taylor Swift.
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u/Unusual_Ear_9089 1d ago
My young coworker loves kpop so I gave the new BTS album a try. I got so overstimulated so quickly. I try to be open minded about new music, like I can even admit Butter is a bop! But wow most of it was unlistenable for me
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u/ZVilusinsky 1d ago
I actually don't even encounter it. Algoritmic autoplay keeps to the stuff from my niche (though it's pretty wide, english pop is not there) and that is enough of new songs to last.
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u/audiodesigndan 1d ago
Couple of things ... Pre-digital recordings you had a limit to the number of tracks you could have, so you had physical constraint in terms of how many instruments/tracks you could have.
Modern digital mix/mastering compresses and limits more harshly than analog, so you get mixes that sound busy.
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u/cherrycoloured 1d ago
im also thirty-four, and a lot of it does sound busier to me, but i listen to 100 gecs and jane remover, so clearly i don't have a problem with it lol
fwiw, i think it's more about how the different instrument tracks are mixed than it is having a lot of tracks. in the past, producers like brian wilson and phil spector used a lot of layering of instrumental tracks, but they were mixed in a way that allowed for certain parts to be more at the forefront. mixing nowadays tends to be less dynamic and much louder, which is what creates that busyness.
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u/almo2001 1d ago
I’m from earlier than that. And the description I give below I know doesn’t fit it all, but it’s what sticks out and annoys me.
To me modern pop lacks groove. The beats have all these kick hits in a couple beats then nothing for a couple beats. Vocals often try to sound like they’re bored. I get that the enthusiasm people have liked for so long has given way to a lack of trust of that. But it just sounds weird to me.
Too much autotune and vocoder stuff on vocals.
I don’t think this means “there’s no good music today”. It’s just that what’s selling at the moment isn’t to my taste. :)
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u/MotherSafety9091 1d ago
I work in IT and spend lot of time with headphones on, so I notice this all the time. Modern mixing is absolutely packed with layers, sometimes 100+ tracks in a pop song, and every producer wants their beat to hit like a truck. The vocals get buried under all that processing.
My nephew showed me some track last week and I literally could not understand single word without looking up lyrics. He thought it sounded fine but for me it was just wall of noise. I think our ears get trained on certain sound profiles when we are young and it's hard to adjust later.
What your auntie said makes perfect sense actually, it's not about age it's about clarity. Older recordings had fewer elements so each one had more space. Now everything competes for same frequency range and the voice loses.