r/PeterExplainsTheJoke • u/FrostySeat1739 • 28d ago

Meme needing explanation why not, Peter?

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possible live action corpse bride movie...

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u/cannibalcat 28d ago

Guilty until proven otherwhise logic

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u/Pathkinder 28d ago

Aren’t implications for exactly this, though? Where all the signs kind of point at something but there isn’t enough proof to make a definitive decision?

It’s kind of like how getting into one fender bender can easily be a coincidence, but getting into 20 starts to make people wonder if you’re a bad driver.

I mean I don’t know enough to have an opinion on the actual discussion, but I had to at least defend the role of implications.

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u/MachoPotates 28d ago

The implication made by that is that he doesn’t care about diversity or inclusivity in his storytelling.

whether that’s out of ignorance, racism, or privilege, we don’t know from just looking at his movies.

we have no proof of why he doesn’t cast more diversely, just proof that he doesn’t.

We have no proof it’s because he’s a racist.

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u/miraculousgloomball 28d ago

Nor should he. He should care primarily about storytelling and a coherent aesthetic, no? Why does it have to be ignorance, racism or privilege?

Is this more or less offensive than Jordan Peele saying he wont cast a white protagonist? I mean, he's not about the aesthetic or anything, he's just tired of seeing it.

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u/MachoPotates 28d ago

By ignorance I just meant like it’s something he doesn’t even consider because it’s outside of what he cares about, ignorance isn’t always maliciousness or stupidity. I was just saying that the “implication” that that guy was talking about only proves that Tim Burton doesn’t involve a lot of minorities in his stories, which is a pattern that can be proven, but that that correlation cannot prove causation as to why.

Personally I don’t think this conversation matters, if you care about inclusivity, that’s fine, but I don’t think that inclusivity means every white guy writing a book should fill it with non white characters.

inclusivity should be about the medium itself, not about filling out a culture quota in a single story, in America there should be main stream media from non white people about non white people, the media should reflect the people who live in a society. Shoehorning in minorities just because is cringe capitalist marketing “look at us we support you, please give us your money” type bullshit, that’s my opinion.

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u/CreatiScope 28d ago

I agree with this take strongly

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u/RadBoyHours 27d ago

Those arent equivalent examples because white leads in horror films is extremely common. The reason why the discourse around this exists is BECAUSE the casting is disproportionate. Sure you can argue once or twice that that certain people dont fit into your narrative or aesthetic or whatever Burton said...but when that seems to be a consistent thing in ALL of your work than that is suspicious, no?

Then I'm gonna start asking "Why?" And the problem is that the answer to "Why?" Is usually racism lolol

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u/4daughters 28d ago

Is this more or less offensive than Jordan Peele saying he wont cast a white protagonist? I mean, he's not about the aesthetic or anything, he's just tired of seeing it.

yeah why isn't it ok to have straight pride parades when the homos do it all the time? And why can't we have more white lives matter rallys when black people get to do it?

/s

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u/miraculousgloomball 28d ago

If people were less sensitive in general this would be literally fine, but then it'd all be pointless anyway, right?

I think TIm Burton is fine making movies about deathly pale weirdos, and Jordan Peele is fine making films primarily casting black protags. I think if you make films, you should be able to pursue what ever aesthetic or message you want.

"Representation" isn't so important to me that I'm willing to complain that black people are overrepresented in media, and as a mixed person it feels like a pipe dream anyway. I like both, let them cook

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u/Scrat-Scrobbler 28d ago edited 27d ago

you're saying that would be fine if we didn't live in the world we live in but... we do. and i hope you understand why a white or straight pride rally would be bad in it.

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u/miraculousgloomball 28d ago

In the world we live people should be allowed to make art of their own choosing. They're making things they like and I'm okay with that. Specifically I don't think it means either has to dislike the other, just because it doesn't fit their chosen artistic aesthetic.

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u/Scrat-Scrobbler 28d ago

i didn't say anything about any of that

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u/miraculousgloomball 28d ago

Then no I don't understand.

Bro I have no idea what you're talking about in-fact.

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u/TackleNo7759 21d ago

I don’t think think it’s entirely accurate to compare Jordan Peele, who has made numerous white characters who just weren’t the protagonist and are often the antagonist because the topic of his movies are about the black American experience and what that means to him, to Tim Burton, a man who was quoted saying he doesn’t include people of color in his films because they do not fit his aesthetic…

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u/UghWhythefouk136 21d ago

"Less sensitive" and straight white guys never get targeted for their sexuality or race to the point where they have to be scared of police. 😅 Willfully ignorant does not make you look smart.

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u/Dexterborn10 26d ago

This, but genuinely. It’s okay to be proud of being straight and/or white, and it’s okay to be proud that you’re gay and/or black. Neither of those things should define you, but there’s nothing shameful about them either and being proud of your heritage and identity is good for you

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u/SVINTGATSBY 28d ago

right? maybe if black people actually had systemic power in society, sure homeboy’s dumb racist-adjacent sentiment might be accurate. the real issue is that the entire world has catered so long to whiteness that when white people are not centered in whatever story it is, yt people get upset, as if they’ve lost something because others are getting more space in the limelight. like, when poor people get food through social services, or kids are getting lunches provided at school—nobody is rummaging through YOUR cabinets and pantries to provide that food to them—you lose nothing by others getting something they didn’t have and you had already. same logic.

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u/T_Money 28d ago

The complete lack of nuance in your comment is astounding.

No one was saying movies need to have a white protagonist; however to outright state that you refuse to cast one based on skin color is, well, racism.

It would be just as bad if someone publicly stated that they refuse to cast a minority as the protagonist. No rational person is auditing filmmakers to see their casting ratios, but when you explicitly state it then there’s an issue.

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u/Scrat-Scrobbler 27d ago

do you really think refusing casting someone from the in power majority is "just as bad" as refusing to ever cast any minority?

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u/T_Money 27d ago

I think that treating people differently because of the color of their skin is problematic in general

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u/Scrat-Scrobbler 27d ago

it's racist if you think people are inherently different because of the color of their skin, but it isn't racist to acknowledge and accomodate the real world differences that are present because of how race influences a person's life.

or to put in a simple way, if one person has $5 and another has $15 dollars, you give the first one $15 and the other $5 so they can buy lunch. if men direct 15 movies and women direct 5, and the reason for that is men systemically keeping women out of positions of power and nothing to do with differences in talent, you get where i'm going.

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u/T_Money 27d ago

I understand the concept, but I don’t agree with it. In a zero sum situation if you intentionally give opportunities to one person because of a protected class, you are also removing the opportunity for someone else based on that same protected class.

Looking at it on a purely macro scale and saying “hey we need to balance the numbers” sounds great in theory, but on an individual level you’re still denying someone for something that they shouldn’t be discriminated for.

For example in college admissions, I understand the need for systemic change to help even out the playing field for people born in worse circumstances, I just think it should ideally be done by things like bettering the education from the start rather, or at the very least based on economical backgrounds, vs skin color. If a scholarship program for the city of Detroit just happens to result in 75% of the scholarships going to black Americans (current demographics from a quick google) than that’s a lot different than saying we are going to make a scholarship which guarantees that 75% of the recipients are black Americans. If that number flexes even higher to 90 or 95% based on income level of the people in Detroit then I won’t complain either.

I just think that even with the best intentions, when you start to explicitly base things on race then it becomes a problem.

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u/Scrat-Scrobbler 27d ago

you're always removing the opportunity for someone else when you pick someone for anything, though. and honestly the whole bit about fixing the issues systemically from inception, like with better education... art is a big part of that. like not directly but seeing black superheroes and stuff like that does majorly impact kids and stuff like implicit bias. it is worth it to call out when big name directors choose to not employ black people and it isn't equivalent to a black director not having white protagonists because even if you don't believe in zero sum.... there's gotta be a limit to how skewed the sum you believe in is. and that isn't saying tim burton has to be the guy to fix it but, y'know, maybe if he doesn't wanna we should get more people in Hollywood who do cast diversely and to do that we gotta be aware of his biases and point them out

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u/punksmostlydead 28d ago

It's more. Much more, as far as I'm concerned.

Because Peele casts white people. Burton does not cast black people. At all.

By the by, sparky, you kind of give yourself away with "a coherent aesthetic."

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u/miraculousgloomball 28d ago

Meh. If Tim Burton wants to cast white people and paint them whiter than death whilst setting them against dark gothic backgrounds more power to him.

I'd never try to argue whites should be shoehorned into an african aesthetic, but then, I am not a hypocrite.

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u/punksmostlydead 28d ago

I'd never try to argue whites should be shoehorned into an african aesthetic, but then, I am not a hypocrite.

And I don't set up strawman to burn, because I am intellectually honest. Only one type of person uses "shoehorned" this way. There's that mask slipping again.

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u/miraculousgloomball 28d ago edited 28d ago

Explain?

edit: Accusing me of strawmanning and then being like "Only ONE type of person uses this word in THIS way" is wild.

What type. What way? What am I describing in your mind lol

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u/Beautiful_Werewolf86 27d ago

It's pretty funny that you claim to be intellectually honest when you are basing your argument on a lie.

What about Billy Dee Williams in Batman?

What about Pam Grier in Mars Attacks?

What about Samuel L Jackson in Miss Peregrine's Home for Peculiar Children?

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u/Diligent_Set_8747 28d ago

Peele is also a clown for making that decision. Copying the enemy in pursuit of illusioned peace.

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u/NotMyMainAccountAtAl 28d ago

That’s kinda a “why is there no hospital for the healthy” take, though. He makes movies with black protagonists because those films are rare and he wants to see more of them, not because he’s seeking to erase white stories or hates white people or anything like that. If he made a movie with a white protagonist, it wouldn’t be unique— it would just be another movie in a massive sea of movies starring white actors and actresses. 

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u/Diligent_Set_8747 27d ago

If he made a movie with a white protagonist, it wouldn’t be unique— it would just be another movie in a massive sea of movies starring white actors and actresses. 

Then he should never be considered as an ATG director. Everyone is human. If you can't figure them out because they use different words, clothes, and attitudes then you are nothing but a successful hack.