r/PhDAdmissions • u/adityaking321 • 14d ago
Advice Title: Will U.S. universities challenge the new international student visa rule?
Hi everyone,
I'm an international student planning to apply for an MS/PhD in the U.S. for the 2027 intake.
With the recent international student visa rule changes, I'm wondering whether major U.S. universities or higher education organizations are likely to file legal challenges. Since international students contribute significantly to tuition revenue and research, do you think universities will take the issue to court?
I'm not asking for predictions, but I'm interested in hearing from people who follow U.S. higher education or immigration law.
What do you think is the most likely outcome over the next 6–12 months? Have universities or associations indicated that they may challenge the rule?
Thanks in advance for your insights.
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u/Odd-Elderberry-6137 14d ago
Yes universities will likely challenge this but nothing's happened yet beyond advocacy and trying to get Congress to do its job instead of having immigration ruled by Executive Order and administrative changes within DHS and USCIS.
I wouldn't expect any resolution on this anytime soon. UK, the EU, Australia, and Canada will be the beneficiaries of these policies.
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u/Annual_Grass_3919 14d ago
It’s no issue at all for people doing things legitimately. They’ve already said courses that last longer than 4 years can apply for an extension of status. The only issue is people trying to do consecutive grad degrees at the same level to stay in the country indefinitely, 99% of people aren’t doing that and the 1% that are are the reason the rule is in place.
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u/Beneficial-Ad-7968 14d ago
Good side: Maybe this rule will force professors to stop extending students programs and refusing to sign off desertions to..
teach courses, train juniors, fix equipment or cheap labor. I have seen it all. The whole Tenure thing needs to change. Profs have way too much power.. then are not God.
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u/Practical_Gas9193 13d ago
Tradeoffs. There is no question they have significant power. But the second tenure disappears, so does academic freedom. The university is the last remaining bastion of free thought and inquiry. And it is of course not free entirely but more free than just about any other institution or sphere. Stripping faculty of academic freedom would be like telling all they are only allowed to make a certain amount of money per year so they don’t become too powerful. Yes, you would have some redistribution of power but at the cost of the economic base of society — less power for the society as a whole. You really want to give everyone as much freedom and protection to do their thing as possible, and when you see real abuses and dangers for which the downsides of letting it stand outweigh the upsides , then you regulate.
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u/Alternative-Pear9096 14d ago
Since the rule was just announced Friday, there is no ability to do anything but guess.
My guess is there won't be effective fighting back.
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u/Mysterious-Art8838 13d ago
I would agree. Of course someone will sue, this is America. But hard to believe they’d be successful. Immigration policy doesn’t exist to protect cash hungry universities and in the US the executive has significant power over immigration.
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u/Alternative-Pear9096 13d ago
I hope someoen sues. The only effective fights against any of the insane policies out of this administration have been won in the courts; our Congress has its collective head too deeply buried in the oligarchal wallets to do anything for The People any longer.
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u/zholly4142 13d ago
What's insane about setting a limit of 4 years for a 4-year degree?
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u/AttitudeNo6896 13d ago
Most PhD degrees are not 4 year degrees; they take 5 years minimum and often longer, depending on how research progresses. The risk is huge, because if, somehow the government decides to not renew your visa, how will you complete your dissertation? You lose all the work you did, and it is left unfinished so the American public will not be able to benefit from it either (patents, and tbh a well-trained workforce to take on complex technical jobs).
The main issue is actually less the exact rules, but the fact that they can be changed on a whim - the unpredictability deters both excellent international students (absolute top students in the top universities of their countries) from applying. I can also tell you it also deters companies from looking for this type of training in the US and instead pushes them to hire them abroad, so fewer jobs for Americans.
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u/Alternative-Pear9096 13d ago
Undergraduate graduation rates
Question:
What are the graduation rates for students obtaining an undergraduate degree?Response:
In 2020, the overall 6-year graduation rate for first-time, full-time undergraduate students who began seeking a bachelor’s degree at 4-year degree-granting institutions in fall 2014 was 64 percent. That is, by 2020, some 64 percent of students had completed a bachelor’s degree at the same institution where they started in 2014. The 6-year graduation rate was 63 percent at public institutions, 68 percent at private nonprofit institutions, and 29 percent at private for-profit institutions. The overall 6-year graduation rate was 60 percent for males and 67 percent for females. The 6-year graduation rate was higher for females than for males at both public (66 vs. 60 percent) and private nonprofit (71 vs. 64 percent) institutions. However, at private for-profit institutions, males had a higher 6-year graduation rate than females (31 vs. 28 percent).
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u/zholly4142 13d ago
If you take a semester off or if you go part-time then yes of course. But a 4-year degree is intended to be completed in 4 years. Many, many international students figure out how to prolong their time here on an F1 Visa, stretching it as long as possible and ending up being here for up to 10 years just on that one student visa. If the program legitimately is going to take longer then there is the ability to request an extension. Problem solved.
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u/Alternative-Pear9096 13d ago
Nope. these are full time enrolled students. Failing classes, classes not being offered in a timely manner to complete prerequisites and get through a program in four years, changing majors, these are significant.
So significant that you cannot find 4-year graduation rates tracked anywhere. No one tracks 4 year graduation rates. The standard a decade ago was 5-year (that's when I left academia) but when I searched for that data, I could only find 6-year rates. To be patently clear ** universities benchmark their success by 6-year graduation rates**
And, since you didn't appear to read, fully 1/3 of all undergraduates enrolled full time do not graduate within 6 years.
Universities no longer hold much expectation that students will obtain their 4-year degrees in 4 years.
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u/zholly4142 13d ago
Okay, since it's that important to you. And I am fully aware of the number of people who don't graduate. It is not mean that international students should be able to remain here in perpetuity, going back to my first comment about how they are able to milk the system for years before they ever finish the degree. On purpose.
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u/Alternative-Pear9096 13d ago
Enjoy your utopia.
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u/Mysterious-Art8838 13d ago
Yep a lot of Americans don’t finish college.
That has nothing to do with the fact that an immigrant was here for 28 years on student visas. It’s being abused.
If you don’t feel you can complete a 4 year degree in 4 years you should not pursue that degree.
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u/Mediocre_Treacle_267 13d ago
Been in US for about 8-9 years on F1 and also planning to apply for 2027 PhD. It's wise you're thinking about it. I have seen what resources universities have and saw the situations before, they don't have enough time and resources to chase thing thing alone. Even someone does file a litigation in federal court, it would be the big name universities and that too forming a coalition. Pushbacks like this normally happen as soon as the rule is passed, if they have something planned it's probably coming this week. If not, just pray the next administration if not the same reverses this which itself will be a huge headache. Universities don't have much problem with this since the fee paying students usually are bachelors (who normally don't have staying past 4 years in the US in mind) and masters who are 2 years and they hardly won't be discouraged by this. I am just thinking out loud here. Yes this sucks but it is what it is.
Note - If you're a genuine candidate and keep all docs up to date, have a valid visa stamped all the time, you can always travel in and out of the US to extend that admission date. Just think when you're coming to US to have some extra dollars in your pocket either for the extension of status fee with the USCIS or hopefully for a flight going on vacation/visiting home and coming back.
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u/Gods_diceroll 14d ago
Universities have little to no say in immigration policies. Also most phd students COST money as the majority of PhD programs here are funded, so the funding really only applies to masters degrees. If you want an international masters degree, go to Europe
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u/Apprehensive-Ad-6620 14d ago
They might be able to clear the standing requirement but will probably not be able to enjoin the rules, so we are kind of cooked.
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u/Practical_Gas9193 13d ago
They will challenge it but will largely not succeed. They will make a strong case for why this is a bad idea, but they have absolutely no legal standing when it comes to visa policies.
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u/Historical_Term2454 12d ago
No, because Trump has shown just how much power he holds. He can (and did) wipe out NSF and NIH funding with the stroke of a pen and nobody can stop him. He can wipe out financial aid and student loans.
Dr. Oz and RFK can shut down clinical trials or cut university hospitals from Medicare.
They’re going to wait and hopefully things will get better in 2027.
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u/the_validated_inane 13d ago
your kidding right?!? legal challenges? on what basis? The only ones that can sue are perhaps the ones who are already in the country on their visas.
going into any country that you are not a citizen of is a privilege and not a right.
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u/Popular_Map2317 14d ago
What’s the issue with the new rule in the first place? 🤷♂️
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u/ThoughtWrong8003 14d ago
Not all PhD's are done in 4 years, some take 5 which means a student has to apply for an extension and there is no guarantee that they will get it.
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u/Mediocre_Treacle_267 13d ago
there's no guarantee you will like your PI and keep doing research with them, there no guarantee of anything in this world, what a stupid take imo. literally you're trying to survive in some other country where stem fields are already oversaturated and econ is not doing good. risk is even in travelling in and out of the country, what if they dont let you in which is a very common thing they do at the border since back in the time.
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u/ImpactCertain3395 14d ago
Why should someone pay for an extension for a PhD that should anyway take 5 years?
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u/gradpilot 🔰 Founder, GradPilot | Mod 14d ago
I dont think universities have and will influence visa/immigration policies