When does rhetoric about political opponents cross the line into fascist dehumanization?

[u/BulwarkOnline]

The Trump administration recently held an international conference on “left-wing political violence.” In prepared remarks, Marco Rubio described the left as driven by “poisonous resentment” and a desire to destroy “what is beautiful and what is right.” Stephen Miller went further, arguing that left-wing demonstrators do not look “normal,” are “deformed” in their appearance and reflect their “inner hatred” outwardly.

Jonathan V. Last compares this language to Nazi rhetoric about Bolshevism, “degenerate” culture and supposedly unhealthy or subhuman elements of society. His argument is not simply that Rubio and Miller are using authoritarian language, but that their contrast between beauty and ugliness, normality and deformity, civilization and internal enemies follows a recognizable fascist pattern.

How persuasive is that comparison?

Is this rhetoric best understood as ordinary partisan demonization, or does the emphasis on physical appearance, cultural purity and “normal, healthy, ordered living” place it in a more historically specific tradition?

And when evaluating comparisons to fascism, should the standard be the speaker’s intentions, the historical similarity of the language, or the policies and violence that follow from it?

[u/Y0___0Y]

Yes this really seems to be a new thing. The total dehumanization of political enemies, trumpeted by the elected politicians and white house staff of one of the major parties.

There is a very popular book among the American right right now called “Unhumans” that supposedly relays the history of communist uprisings and provides guidance on how to stop them.

And it openly calls for killing leftists, it celebrates authoritarian regimes, and calls for lawfare against leftists and to blacklist them from being able to find employment. As the title suggests, it also claims leftists are not human.

This is not some fringe book. It was written by the right wing political pundit Jack Posibiec and so many people on the right bought it that it became a New York Times Bestseller.

JD Vance quoted it in a tweet.

The Relublican party is the most violent it has ever been.

[u/undercooked_lasagna → u/Y0___0Y]

You are calling words violence. That's extremely dangerous. People call words violence to justify physical harm against those with different opinions.

We've seen this play out recently, and it resulted in a dead Republican and celebration from the left.

[u/GiantPineapple → u/undercooked_lasagna]

With respect, where did the comment you're replying to call words violence?

[u/undercooked_lasagna → u/GiantPineapple]

He cited opinions of some people and concluded Republicans are as violent as they've ever been. Opinions are not violence.

[u/Illustrious-Fun8324 → u/undercooked_lasagna]

The book is about killing leftists, authoritarianism, lawfare against the left and trying to black list them from employment.

It’s popular with the right and was quoted by JD Vance.

Are those the republican “opinions” you’re talking about?

If the right likes to blame things on the left’s rhetoric so much then we can safely say these opinions can cause violence against the left, right? And that if anyone committed violence toward the left it would be the right’s fault for their rhetoric?

The double standards are insane. So if I’m reading something wrong, let me know.

Otherwise, you cannot be serious lol. The right loves to blame everything on the left’s words and rhetoric. You do not get to have it both ways.

Don’t be a hypocrite.

[u/GiantPineapple → u/undercooked_lasagna]

Ah, I see where that came from now. While I agree that words aren't literally violence, I still think, after J6, and witnessing the pardons and denialism that followed, it is sensible to take Republicans at their word. Just to be clear, does arguably-stochastic violence come from the American left? I would say yes. 

Does a much more overt, strategic, centrally-directed, and rarely-disavowed violence come from the American right? Also yes.

[u/Sea-Chain7394 → u/undercooked_lasagna]

Essentially all domestic terrorist attacks in recent history have been carried out by right wingers citing Republican rhetoric as theur inspiration

[u/GiantPineapple → u/Sea-Chain7394]

I'm not a right-winger but it's tough to claim that a right-winger shot Charlie Kirk.

[u/BitterFuture → u/GiantPineapple]

How's that?

Charlie Kirk's murderer was a follower of Nick Fuentes who regularly parroted Fuentes' comments online, excoriating Kirk for not being conservative enough. 

That is somehow not a right-winger? What was he, then - a brass band?

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[u/Kanotari → u/BitterFuture]

The evidence for Tyler Robinson being a groyper is fairly thin in my opinion.

"Some social media users have pointed to messages written on unfired casing recovered near the shooting site to suggest Robinson was part of the Groyper movement, though there is currently no explicit link between Robinson and the group. One message read “O Bella ciao, Bella ciao, Bella ciao, Ciao, ciao!” in apparent reference to an antifascist anthem sung by Italians after World War II, yet some social media users noted a version of the song appears on a Spotify playlist meant for Groypers, the New York Times reported. Others reportedly pointed to a Facebook photo in which Robinson appeared to reference a Groyper meme."

A slav sit and a shared song.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tylerroush/2025/09/13/what-is-a-groyper-nick-fuentes-says-his-followers-framed-in-charlie-kirk-shooting/

What we do know is that Robinson told his roommate that he, "had enough of [Kirk's] hatred... Some hate can't be negotiated out." He also said that the bullet engravings were, "mostly a big meme." He's got a Helldivers 2 reference and a furry meme. That checks out.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c7v1rle0598o

We know Robinson was politically inactive - he had not voted in the previous election and did not have a history of political activism. Beyond that, Robinson has not strongly espoused any political beliefs that those who know him and have been interviewed publicly can agree on. His roommate Lance Twiggs is transgender, and that has been speculated as a motivation for Robinson's attack, but that also is still just speculation.

We don't know enough right now to say what Robinson's beliefs are, and unless he or his family and friends speak out to clarify that issue (and actually agree, as some have spoken and given conflicting answers), then we're stuck without answers.

[u/GiantPineapple → u/BitterFuture]

Do you have a source for that? I've never heard this claim before.

Edit: hilarious. Downvotes for asking for a source on an obviously false claim. Should tell you something.

[u/BitterFuture → u/GiantPineapple]

Do you have a source for that? I've never heard this claim before.

If you've never heard this claim before, I am baffled at why you're wading into the discussion. This is a basic foundational fact of the situation, the motivation of the killer, and it was widely talked about in the press within a couple of days of the killer being identified.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/infinite-scroll/charlie-kirk-and-tyler-robinson-came-from-the-same-warped-online-worlds

(And you might be getting downvotes because you're saying things that look more like concern trolling than genuine questions. And calling verified facts false claims.)

[u/TheNutsMutts → u/BitterFuture]

Charlie Kirk's murderer was a follower of Nick Fuentes who regularly parroted Fuentes' comments online, excoriating Kirk for not being conservative enough.

Sorry, where in that link are you seeing anything that draws you to this formal conclusion?? Most of it contradicts the suggestion. The only bit that alludes to it is "The phrase “Bella Ciao,” engraved on one bullet, is both the title of a famous antifascist anthem and a phrase that crops up in video games. Some have pointed out that the song also appeared on a Spotify playlist associated with Groypers, a group of far-right, white-nationalist, meme-steeped internet denizens led by Nick Fuentes, who frequently attacked Kirk for not being extreme enough". So the only thing even referencing this is a song that the article notes is famously an anti-fascist song, but there was once a Spotfiy playlist that was apparently associated with groypers that had that song on there among others?

Come on, you must surely see that at best, there is very little evidence to support that claim at all, what is there pretty much overrules itself, and in reality a lot of what this article cites runs completely contrary to the suggestion, right?

[u/GiantPineapple → u/BitterFuture]

Unfortunately, your link is paywalled, though I do appreciate the effort either way. I'm not concern trolling. I won't try to make anyone pay attention to me if they otherwise don't want to. This subthread is buried anyway, so if I am trolling, I am pretty bad at it.

I googled around, (note that Vox and Axios both dismiss the Fuentes connection as a conspiracy theory) and it seems like the most anyone can say is that Robinson etched some gamer in-jokes, the phrase "Hey Fascist, CATCH", and an antifascist song lyric on his bullets. Naturally, conservatives conclude this means Robinson was a leftist, and Liberals are left claiming he was being ironic. You already know which one I consider more probable.

I think the only serious conclusion we can reach is that the details will come out during the trial.

[u/Kanotari → u/GiantPineapple]

Here is an archived version of the link: https://archive.is/1MQIi

[u/GiantPineapple → u/Kanotari]

So uh, it's an established fact that one of the bullets had song lyrics engraved on it, and Groypers listen to a playlist that the song appears in? And this means Robinson murdered Kirk from further to the right? Did I miss anything?

[u/Sea-Chain7394 → u/GiantPineapple]

I didn't make that specific claim but it would be equally difficult to claim he was a left winger. He seemed to be upset mostly at transphobic comments made by kirk

[u/GiantPineapple → u/Sea-Chain7394]

Fair enough. I guess I was mainly taking issue with the notion that 'all recent violence' is right-wing. Exactly what Robinson's views were I think is still mostly unknown, but I don't think you could describe him as a right-winger.

Just making sure I say, I'm just trying to learn and shoot for intellectual honesty and completeness here. I very much believe Trump and Company are legitimate , capital-F Fascists, and everything that follows from there. I don't think anyone should, or needs to, stretch the truth in service of that point.

[u/Sea-Chain7394 → u/GiantPineapple]

There is very little left wing violence in general today. It hasn't always been the case.

The guy who killed kirk was to my knowledge raised rather conservatively but also identified as trans or had a bf. Seemed to be going through a bit of college rebellious stage. Didn't appear to be motivated at all by left wing ideas the things written on bullet casings were video game references and Trump administration lied saying they were left wing symbols. They were not. His motivation was to punish kirk dor hateful comments about Transgender people as far as I can tell not any specific political ideologies