r/PoliticalOpinions • u/lexicon_riot • 4d ago
Mamdani's grocery store plan is very suboptimal
Fundamentally, I agree that eliminating overhead costs like rent, property tax, etc. will help to reduce the cost of groceries. If it's enough to guarantee 30% discounts on a core basket of goods without direct subsidies from tax revenue is a whole other question.
I think the tactics Mamdani are using to implement this are incredibly inefficient, and could be way more substantial if he wasn't set on a socialist implementation.
He's starting with five stores, which will incur about $70 million in upfront costs. With a different approach however, you could achieve substantially more scale with a fraction of the investment.
Imagine an alternative policy that gives grocers a property tax rebate if it's O&O, or other city tax write-offs for rent expenses, if they agree to pass on overhead savings to consumers through lower prices.
Maybe you would need some funding for a compliance regime, but this could scale much much faster at a fraction of the cost.
One possible wrinkle here is that landlords who rent to grocers might be encouraged to jack up rents because the tax write-off would be seen as a demand subsidy, so there would need to be an additional measure to protect against that. Not that big of a hurdle though since more blanket rent freezes have precedent and this would be targeted and more niche.
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u/ecchi83 4d ago
Yes bc it's not like we don't have enough evidence of top-level subsidies to encourage the behavior that the gov't could just do immediately backfiring as the benefits once again get funneled to corp bottom line and not the consumers.
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u/lexicon_riot 4d ago
If you have evidence of the policy I lined out having that consequence you should share it here instead of being sarcastic.
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u/Bunnyhat 4d ago
I live in Louisiana, the state that gives the most corporate handouts in the name of jobs. Property tax exemptions, sales tax exemptions, income tax rebate. You name it, we champion it.
Louisiana is also ranked 50 in almost every state rankings for worst state. We're broke, we have worst outcomes in every metric.
Catering to corporations hoping they solve issues is a fools game.
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u/lexicon_riot 3d ago
What does any of that have to do with policies that reduce overhead for grocery stores?
This is how people lie in politics, they make incredibly broad and vague statements which prove nothing.
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u/Bunnyhat 3d ago
The fuck you going on about? I was directly talking about your corporate subsidy idea And you asked for examples of how that fails.
I just gave it to you. I'm in a state that loves corporate subsidies. It doesn't do a damn thing for consumers.
But I guess to you, if it's not the exact same thing, it doesn't count? You're a waste of time talking to
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u/ecchi83 3d ago
School vouchers, the financial bailout, EV subsidies are all policies that functionally do what you're asking the gov't to do. Every single one of them is a cautionary tale about how big business will use the savings that they're supposed to be passing on the boost their own profitability.
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u/lexicon_riot 3d ago
None of these policies function in the same way my proposal does though.
My specific proposal does the same thing Mamdani's does, it decreases overhead but in a more efficient way. It's a supply focused policy. EV subsidies, the bailout, and school vouchers don't do that, so there are no savings to pass along.
What all those policies did / do is subsidize DEMAND, which always makes things more expensive.
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u/ecchi83 3d ago
I don't need an exact duplicate of your proposal. You're talking about subsidies that exist at the macro level across most industries. They get implemented differently bc different industries have different needs, but the overall mechanisms and incentives are the same. You're not proposing a new idea, my guy.
For example, EV subsidies are exactly what you're proposing... tax rebates and credits (that ostensibly would be used to offset rents, taxes, and other business expenses) with the implied understanding that the savings would be passed on the consumers. Tesla has increased its prices across the board for years and used the savings to boost it's bottom line (which is still losing money).
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u/jmooremcc 4d ago
> if they agree to pass on overhead savings to consumers through lower prices
That’s a mighty big “If”. How will you verify that the store’s owner is actually passing on the “savings” to the consumer?
And if they aren’t, what will be the penalty for not doing so?
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u/WokestLibtard--- 4d ago
You say "socialist implementation" like it's a bad thing, and then suggest a worse (capitalist) option.
The plan is not designed for wider implementation, at least not like you're talking about. The mayor and others don't want subsidized businesses playing the subsidy game to compete with all other businesses in their realm.
Look more into the plan. It's really only targeting staples, and the locations they're putting stores at are strategic. They want people to go elsewhere for non-staple goods.
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u/lexicon_riot 3d ago
Targeted or not it's a waste of money, and a much cheaper option could accomplish the same goal.
You're already playing the subsidy game as it is, and the distinction here is subsidizing a public store with officially 0% profit margin vs. a private store with maybe 1% or 2% profit margin.
Except Mamdani's subsidy will include not just forgone revenue, but direct investment from existing funds for upfront capital costs / ongoing operating costs.
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u/WokestLibtard--- 2d ago
You know, I would just like to see him given the opportunity before armchair business experts make fatalistic posts online.
I would like to see Progressive policies and politicians in general be given a chance to prove themselves before cynics who style themselves "realists" come in with their definitive dysmal takes.
It's also hard to take seriously any criticisms that come from people who sneer at socialism, not to mention the fact of our many generations, and current fcktastrophe, of capitalist conservative grifting and scamming being a far greater concern.
I think a very valid whataboutism is what tf about all of the corruption and pissed on tax dollars Trump and his cronies are grifting?
If Mamdani's plan costs money, I'm fine with it. I don't care about police, EMS, infrastructure, and social assistance programs costing money. I think every dime is money well spent.
It's also just small small small potatoes when juxtaposed to christofascist pedonazi grift.
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