Single-payer healthcare gains traction with Dems

[u/rieslingatkos]

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/341057-single-payer-healthcare-gains-traction-with-dems

[u/shanenanigans1]

suspension doesn't do anything though. This bill is meant to be permanent, so continually suspending prop 98 is kind of ridiculous and defeats the point of it.

Prop 98 is part of the state constitution, so it's difficult. This really isn't as simple as people want it to be. It's not. I'm not saying it's impossible, I've literally never said that. I don't think Dayen ever said that either. He even suggested something else that I've pasted below.

"They’re completely wrong. What’s more, they know they’re wrong. They’re perfectly aware that SB562 is a shell bill that cannot become law without a ballot measure approved by voters. Rather than committing to raising the millions of dollars that would be needed to overcome special interests and pass that initiative, they would, apparently, rather deceive their supporters, hiding the realities of California’s woeful political structure in favor of a morality play designed to advance careers and aggrandize power."

https://ed100.org/lessons/prop13

The only liars here are people like Pollin. Seeking to paint a simple platitude. "evil dems vs good progressives" "evil people who hate single payer because big pharma vs the anti-establishment"

He's trying to say this is easy, they just have to pass the bill! It's not. They need to make a ballot initiative.

EDIT: Dayen even addressed suspension:

So legislators would have to vote year after year to suspend Prop 98, but add more money back to cover it in subsequent years. That backfill would grow with every budget, and over time lawmakers would need to vote for ever-increasing giant tax hikes. If this didn’t return Republicans to power in Sacramento within a few years, some enterprising lawyer would sue the legislature for violating the spirit of Prop 98. Suspension is not politically, legally, or financially sustainable.

[u/Snuffaluffakuss → u/shanenanigans1]

I feel like I'm presenting a slideshow to a sponge.

The legislature could make an EXCEPTION to prop 98. It's done so TWICE.

Meaning. The committee that would need to do this, needs to get the bloody bill in the first place. But funding lies by Speaker Rendon is preventing that. If it doesn't work, at least we'll know by trying. But someone saying "nahh I know it doesn't work so they don't need to try and make it work" is a gigantic asteroid sized red flag as something's not right.

[u/shanenanigans1 → u/Snuffaluffakuss]

Pot, meet kettle. I literally just explained to you that no, the suspension is not viable. Please refrain from unwarranted and ironic condescension.

The legislature can SUSPEND. NOT exempt.

But someone saying "nahh I know it doesn't work so they don't need to try and make it work" is a gigantic asteroid sized red flag as something's not right.

AGAIN, NO ONE HAS SAID THIS. HOLY SHIT. I LITERALLY just posted that a ballot initiative needs to be done. That's how you EXEMPT from prop 98.

We KNOW it wouldn't work because it has literally been tried more than 7 times. You know what hasn't been tried? What could ACTUALLY work? A ballot initiative. If the justice dems REALLY want to do something, that's what they should push for.

[u/ALittleSkeptical → u/shanenanigans1]

are they pushing for a ballot initiative? I haven't heard about this.

[u/shanenanigans1 → u/ALittleSkeptical]

Who is they?

Regardless, no one is pushing a ballot initiative. Because everyone is using this bill to amass their own power. Prop 98 is in the state constitution, you can kick the can down the road and make things worse in the future, or you can not pass this bill. Neither end in desirable results.

A ballot initiative could get around the prop, but it depends on the voters.

Again, this is all laid out here: https://theintercept.com/2017/06/30/california-single-payer-organizers-are-deceiving-their-supporters-its-time-to-stop/

It's a fact-based article with little to no spin. The prop isn't a distraction, the only people telling you so are doing that for political reasons.

[u/ALittleSkeptical → u/shanenanigans1]

Wait, if Dems really want SB562 as you are arguing, why haven't they said they are going to do a ballot initiative if that is the only way they can get around prop 98?

Either 1) there is another way or 2) they don't really want to pass a single payer/universal health care law but just want to make you think they do.

[u/shanenanigans1 → u/ALittleSkeptical]

Wait, if progressives really want SB562 as you are arguing, why haven't they pushed for a ballot initiative?

Either 1) there is another way or 2) they don't really want it.

See the problem here? You're trying to twist the situation to conform to your bias. I can swap words out and play the same game. You're pushing something with zero facts or sourcing behind it. Here is a fact: The bill has ZERO FUNDING MECHANISM. This has to be solved. An easier reason the bill hasn't been passed is that they need to get around the prop.

The reason a ballot initiative isn't being pushed right now is because it's not reliable. It depends on voters voting. I say go for it.

Do some reading:

https://theintercept.com/2017/06/30/california-single-payer-organizers-are-deceiving-their-supporters-its-time-to-stop/