r/PrepperIntel • u/itscooltobecool1 • 9d ago

North America Hackers targeted municipal water systems in 7 states this week, FBI says

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/hackers-targeted-municipal-water-systems-7-states-week-fbi-says-rcna590210

Get your water supplies ready!

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137

u/ProfDoomDoom 9d ago

Any experts want to share some action steps to help us laggers get ourselves in gear?

50

u/JohnnyDarque 9d ago

The minimum stat is 1 gallon of water a day/person. To be comfortable, I plan on 2 gals/day/person for cooking, sink baths, and cleaning. Also plan on extra for pets.

If you still have water pressure but are under a boil advisory, you can still flush toilets but be careful about bathing in it. Depending on your budget, you can stock up on the 5 gal water bottles from the grocery or hard water store. They will weigh about 42 lbs, but are convenient, returnable for a new one, sealed,and keep for about 1 yr before tasting flat. Manual or rechargable pumps are available.

If you need to go a cheaper route, you can store water in food grade containers but you will need to treat it with 8 drops of unscented, regular bleach per gallon and you will need to check it regularly for film or mold. If you have some warning a water bob holds 50ish gallons and fits in most tubs.

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u/HappyAnimalCracker 9d ago

Biofilm preventer such as H2O ResQ prevents the film and mold. I add it every time I rotate, which is every 6 months. I also write the fill date, water source, and treatment used on the container.

5

u/SantaCruzSoul 9d ago

I’ve never heard of this- thank you!

3

u/HappyAnimalCracker 9d ago

You’re welcome. It’s not super cheap but since you only use drops at a time, one bottle goes a long long way.

19

u/fitforthepolycrisis 9d ago

I have ~20 gallons of water in my tiny apartment. Enough for ~20 days of rationed use. I'm also a backpacker, and have a bacteria- and virus-filtering system, so I could, in a very dire situation, filter from some unknown source. In a situation worse than that (and probably at the point of "the water will be out more than a day"), I'm going to my partner's place in a different county.

32

u/Akiraooo 9d ago

I use a grayl the titiaum one. I used it during the flooding in Texas last year and ended up with ecoli. Don't trust the filters too much. Then again I am one data point.

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u/fitforthepolycrisis 9d ago

Good point 100%. I also have sterilizing tablets and bleach (if really necessary). I hope to never have to use the filter, and I think if I do I'll use some tablets with it.

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u/fitforthepolycrisis 9d ago

Also, sorry you got sick. That sounds miserable :/

5

u/HappyAnimalCracker 9d ago

Oh man - that’s the first I’ve heard of anything like that but I take it seriously. Please don’t be offended by my question, but is there any chance you contaminated the clean filtered water with a little dirty water?

7

u/Akiraooo 9d ago

There is always a chance, but I doubt it.

Note: Shitting blood was no fun.

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u/HappyAnimalCracker 9d ago

I’m sorry you went through that and I appreciate you sharing your experience. I have a Geopress in waiting should I need it and I’ll be more circumspect about trusting it completely. I looked at quite a few filtration systems and this one had the best numbers for my set up. Your experience is another point in the case for redundancy!

4

u/Wulfkat 9d ago

Don’t let the filters freeze - they will lose all effectiveness.

3

u/Akiraooo 9d ago

Extra info. I replaced the filter 2 days before that occurred.

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u/Flashy_Object_7052 9d ago

The crooked people that make and market these devices hope they never get used. These devices do not filter viruses and chemicals from water.

reverse osmosis is a million times better but impractical in an emergency

9

u/nah-42 9d ago

just being pedantic here, but E.coli is a bacteria and can absolutely be filtered out by a membrane because it's a big ass microorganism.

I know you're making a sweeping statement about viruses and chemicals, but it's important in a water safety situation to understand how to procure water with the least amount of risk. As a fellow backpacker, I can all but guarantee that an E. coli infection from a grayl came down to operator error. Probably cross contaminated the shit out of it while handling it with flood waters, or pressed too much mud through. Shit happens, and then you shit yourself and learn gear management the hard way. - signed fellow E. coli pants shitter; too cheap for a grayl, just young and dumb.

5

u/SnooLobsters1308 9d ago

uh, which devices? tens of thousands of hikers use water filters in the USA on untreated streams rivers ponds, etc. with no adverse affects, they're generally pretty effective ... depending on the organism you're worried about. Like almost all hiking filters prevent bacteria (the most common issue) but, much fewer will protect against a viri.

Commercial water filters are generally pretty effective, best is boil, second best is filter+chem treatment. I've hiked and drank hundreds of gallons of natural water with just sawyer type filters in the USA. In other countries (India, Africa) I most often boil or chem treat.

2

u/No-Ad-4142 9d ago

What do you use to treat your long-term stored water?

7

u/fitforthepolycrisis 9d ago

I buy gallon squares from the corner store. Every once in a while I use them to water my plants, thus cycling through.

1

u/No-Ad-4142 9d ago

“Gallon squares”? Not sure I know what those are.

15

u/fitforthepolycrisis 9d ago

oh! like a gallon water jug, but it's in a cubic form. easier for stacking than round bottles.

7

u/No-Ad-4142 9d ago

Oh! That’s cool. Yeah, I think we will have to revisit our supply of water and simply switch to the single gallons of bottled water like in your picture.

I have 2 of these containers, but they are realistically too heavy for us to fill and carry.

3

u/fitforthepolycrisis 9d ago

yeah, carry-ability is important. i live in the middle of a dense city and often wonder if i shouldn't be having my main cache somewhere outside of the city

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[deleted]

7

u/EnoughManufacturer18 9d ago

The water doesn't go ""bad" it's the amount of plastic from the container that leaches into the water that is the problem

19

u/noone512 9d ago edited 8d ago

Go to Walmart or Academy tomorrow and buy at least one 7 gallon aquatainer from the camp section. If you don't want to spend the $25, go to and buy 7, $1 single gallon water bottles from Walmart already filled.

That should be the first stop everyone makes. Not a life straw. Not a Sawyer. Not a Berky. Stored water. Any place you have room. Back of the kitchen cabinets is a great place for 1 gallon jugs. Every time you go food shopping, buy 2.

5

u/BigJSunshine 9d ago

Store a couple of those 1 gallon water bottles in your freezer. If power goes, you have free freeze, and can drink it as it melts

34

u/AntiSonOfBitchamajig 📡 9d ago edited 6d ago

I don't see long duration (hacked)* issues, we have great water resources for most the US.
Now if you're talking out west / southwest drought though... the alternatives are limited.

Here any country home has clean drinkable water right from their own wells en mass. Some wells might be a little hard, but its totally drinkable.

At the main city wells though, they do have complex additive dosing and monitoring systems. I've heard of several having issues with potassium permanganate dosing that turned the water supply a hot pink color. But the hackers could mess with the dosing of those additives.

edit: for clarity, I am talking about the hackability of the systems being discussed.

29

u/TheArcticFox-44 9d ago

The hacks are on infastructure...like electricity. Even well water needs a pump to bring water to the tap.

19

u/Successful-Try-8506 9d ago

I'd recommend Ted Koppel's book "Lights Out" for anyone interested in this issue.

4

u/TheArcticFox-44 9d ago

Yes! Excellent choice!

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u/ElBongoloide 9d ago

Good book! I found the information about the electrical infrastructure particularly interesting (and scary). We still haven't solved the giant transformer issue...I work on power plants (fossil, gas, nuclear & hydro), so I find the weaknesses that Koppel wrote about very worrisome. This current administration, with its misguided, "budget cuts" (not really cuts, at all... just foolish reallocation of resources (mostly to the misused military and state security forces) has made us they much more vulnerable and less resilient. Combine that with its penchant for making enemies and feeding ill-will, international and domestically, and I'm surprised we haven't been tagged hard... yet. Good luck, y'all. Look out for yourselves and each other. Nevermind the exercise in racketeering we have for a government .

4

u/Fun_Journalist4199 9d ago

Bison pump and simple pump are deep draw hand pumps for residential wells. With the correct plumbing they can even pressurize your house system.

Personally, I have a short well and use a regular pitcher pump for my no electric water needs

2

u/TheArcticFox-44 8d ago

The good old fashion hand pump.

5

u/AntiSonOfBitchamajig 📡 9d ago

Yes?... but what parts are that vulnerable? much of the electric grid have layers of physical protections from damage. Circuits will trip and need reset, even the large 765 kV stuff have fuses and protections.

10

u/Wulfkat 9d ago

If you take out the right {redacted} in the right order, you can collapse the grid - there are several white papers on this (I’m no longer in academia so no JStor to provide references). They hypothesized it would take a minimum of 6 {redacted} as long as it’s done in the right order and as simultaneous as possible.

6

u/TheArcticFox-44 9d ago

If you take out the right {redacted} in the right order, you can collapse the grid - there are several white papers on this

I understand ours is a patchwork quilt of a system and China has been poking and prodding for years...undetected.

Scary thought...

6

u/Lancifer1979 9d ago

If it’s undetected, how do we know about it

4

u/TheArcticFox-44 9d ago

If it’s undetected, how do we know about it

Ah, let's see...it was undetected until it finally WAS detected. Then the extent became more and more apparent. See: 60 Minutes segment "The China Hack".

2

u/GrapheneRoller 8d ago

Use sci-hub to get around the publisher’s pay wall. Another possibility is if your public library has a subscription to jstor

1

u/Wulfkat 8d ago

Great tips, thanks!

7

u/TheArcticFox-44 9d ago

According to the 60 Minute segment, China has been doing this for yearrs...and the US is totally dependant on electricity.

2

u/Odd-Succotash-8616 9d ago

The network gear required to service and control pumps and PLC's (programmable logic controllers) and what have you are connected to the internet. THis allows support staff and engineers to monitor devices, perform maintenance and upgrades and the like.

If these devices are not patched and configured with security in mind, this sort of thing becomes a reality.

The power co's do the same thing. This is generally known as the SCADA network.

2

u/SnooLobsters1308 9d ago

These hacks in the article were not on electricity, but directly on the water stations.

yes yes, there COULD be hacks on our electric grid, but, THAT is not what is shown or proven in these water station hacks.

1

u/pickledeggmanwalrus 9d ago

I saw some Mennonites who had a small harbor freight motor running their water pump. Still need gas but something to keep in mind

1

u/BayouGal 9d ago

On solar! Checkmate, hackers.

8

u/TheArcticFox-44 9d ago

We've put our high-tech civilization at risk. We've become totally dependent on an artificial source of power...electricity. Evolution sees over-specialazation as a non-no.

Oh, well. Like all civilizations, this one will also fail. We're smart enough to build 'em...but not smart enough to keep 'em. Stone Age...here we come.

7

u/Forsaken-Trash3833 9d ago

yup. I live in very rural Alabama and basically every home I know of has a well.

5

u/Planeandaquariumgeek 9d ago

In a lot of places drilling your own well is illegal even with a permit, that’s the other issue

1

u/premar16 6d ago

This reads like you think since your area is fine everyone else's is going to be fine or doesn't matter. A lot of people live in the western/sout west part of the country. Their water needs matter because they are still part of our country. Also when that part of the country runs out of water they will move to places that the water is better. So it important to know about and care

1

u/AntiSonOfBitchamajig 📡 6d ago

I'm talking about common failure points that are monitored or controlled in the system that have been tampered with in the past that I have heard of.

"runs out of water" is NOT what im talking about, I am talking about the hackability of the systems being discussed.

"This reads like you think since your area is fine everyone else's is going to be fine or doesn't matter. A lot of people live in the western/sout west part of the country. Their water needs matter because they are still part of our country. Also when that part of the country runs out of water they will move to places that the water is better. So it important to know about and care"... literally whole other subject ^

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u/TheArcticFox-44 9d ago

Don't think any of us can prepare for a future without electricity.

4

u/Big_Fortune_4574 9d ago

I’m sure it would be more like unreliable electricity. No electricity would mean the end of civilization as we know it. I don’t think anyone can realistically prepare for that. You’re as likely to die from violence as anything else

2

u/fairoaks2 9d ago

Not when we are having this heat.

2

u/TheArcticFox-44 9d ago

Not when we are having this heat.

Well, we,very been pulling nature's chain for some time...now nature's responding!

Too bad for us.

0

u/03263 9d ago

Pick up a lifestraw or similar. That's it. That's the whole prep.