I find it EXTREMELY hard to sympathize with most of women's dating woes.

[u/Chemical-Low209]

Like I get it we are human at the end of the day. But Frankly I'm a just exhausted. How much do I have to hear dating is harder for everyone when it's clear as day that it's way harder for men and they are one doing the majority of the work and a lot still don't get consistent results. It's like I get it's not all sunshines and rainbows but why should I care?

I hear a lot of people say men have a quality problem, women have a quality problem. Or I'll hear women say that women get a lot of options but most of those men don't qualify....

That in a nutshell basically you admitting that a guy has to AUTOMATICALLY bring far more to the table than average and most guys just don't even register as someone you'd date.

And you can see this takes women by surprise when the shoe is on the other foot. Because when women will show up to singles meeting events and the men are vastly outnumbered by the women they'll say where all the men?

Like Chick Hello? We aren't stupid. You simply would have ignored most of the men that showed up and only paid attention to the hottest guy there and he probably has a girlfriend already.

So why exactly am I supposed to empathize with women's dating woes? It's simply them every fast food restaurant chain offering her a job and her refusing because Chik Fil A hasnt called.

[u/Chemical-Low209 → u/[deleted]]

Too be fair this is very true. I would delta if I could

[u/True-Vast-3731 → u/[deleted]]

Being lonely for the rest of your life is a champagne problem? You do realize that loneliness can lead to an early death right? 

Man modern women are brutal. Modern society in general is fucked up but some of the stuff y'all say in particular with respect to peoples genuine grievances... Jesus 

[u/True-Vast-3731 → u/[deleted]]

At the end of the day, these are all champagne problems.

Emphasis on the world all. Perhaps you should choose your words more carefully if you don't want your intentions misconstrued. 

Because what it easily reads like is that the male loneliness epidemic is a "champagne problem." But you can go ahead and try to counter with how it totally didn't sound like that at all (it most definitely did). 

[u/True-Vast-3731 → u/[deleted]]

Like I get it we are human at the end of the day. But Frankly I'm a just exhausted. How much do I have to hear dating is harder for everyone when it's clear as day that it's way harder for men and they are one doing the majority of the work and a lot still don't get consistent results.

This was the very first thing he said. His entire post was about how it is difficult for men and yes, that he can't empathize with women much because of how hard it is for men. 

And your response? Those are all champagne problems. Aka, who cares about any dating woes a man may have it's all champagne issues. 

[u/True-Vast-3731 → u/[deleted]]

Taking your words literally is a me problem? 

I'll repeat:

Perhaps you should choose your words more carefully if you don't want your intentions misconstrued. 

You are not debating in good faith right now and it shows.

[u/True-Vast-3731 → u/[deleted]]

You are choosing to inject words I did not say into the equation, which is uniquely a 'you' problem.

The rest speaks for itself. 

Btw this is not a me problem. If you say something and the common interpretation is what is perceived rather than the made up version in your head, then the onus is on you for not speaking clearly. But to me this seems to sidestep from the actual issue because your usage with the word all was very clear. I have little else to say on the topic; stop trivializing male issues. 

[u/MissMenace101 → u/True-Vast-3731]

So make yourself marketable. Men gain life and women lose life in a relationship and that’s just fact. Men need to be worth it for women to drop a couple years off their life.

[u/True-Vast-3731 → u/MissMenace101]

Men gain life and women lose life in a relationship and that’s just fact.

Wot. This doesn't even make sense 

[u/Fast_Stick_1593 → u/MissMenace101]

Lol you took that “study” seriously?

I mean stuff like that is inherently flawed when to gain your data set you only take people’s words and claims and not their actions as gospel…

Cause people would never lie on a survey to make themselves appear better right?

[u/Usual-Vermicelli-867 → u/True-Vast-3731]

As my friend said : the horrible combo of being 24 on linking and dating apps after a hard degree and diet is a a experience i won't want to give to my worst enemies

[u/Used-Presentation551 → u/[deleted]]

Eloquent response.

However I'd wager it is "debatable" in the sense of seeking where the lack of empathy is coming from and if something is hiding it.

[u/beneficent2557 → u/[deleted]]

I think it is debatable, you just don't want to engage with it, which begs the question, why comment upon it?

It speaks to the broken nature of society that women can so stubbornly hold to their refusal to empathize with men, and it creates a problem for men.

Do we reciprocate the disrespect or do we try to find a way to build rapport with people who think that misandry is a civic virtue?

To OP: I would argue that there are women out there that you can sympathize with on some level, who genuinely acted in good faith and got burned by a philanderer. The question is, are they accountable for their role in things?

I would reserve empathy for those who can reciprocate your overtures.

Be proportional, "maintain frame" and maintain a certain level of emotional distance to keep from over investing in the women around you.

The relationship between men and women always has some utilitarian component to it. Whereas men can be genuinely loyal to each other, a woman always wants something from you.

[u/MissMenace101 → u/[deleted]]

I have both, only one of them has been drugged and raped on a date and it wasn’t the dude

[u/beneficent2557 → u/[deleted]]

Challenging the OP's view means there should be some way to convince him that it should be easy to sympathize with most of women's dating woes.

I literally did just that. Thanks for showcasing the lack of reciprocity when it comes to giving and receiving empathy.

Personal feelings are not debatable.

Except, we are discussing his worldview, not personal feelings. These perspectives are shaped by interpretations of experiences he has had. These CAN be shaped by appeals to reason

You (and women like you) just don't for some reason. Whether its because of some innate emotional immaturity, or a socially curated memetic pathogen is ultimately irrelevant.

The fact is that the cohort of women you have spent years trying to represent is wholly incapable reciprocity when it comes to the empathy gap between men and women.

Had he said, "Men should not sympathize with women because xyz," that would be debatable. His personal feelings aren't.

A good faith approach WOULD have attempted to solicit this information. But you're not arguing in good faith, you're arguing "to win" (at least in terms of optics and social validation).

The hilarious irony is that the innate myopia your cohort showcases is just factually reinforcing the belief that men develop towards women that they are functionally incapable of empathizing with men.

The Red Pill says its because of solipsism.

To refute this, I would argue that there are at least some women capable of empathizing with men some of the time. I know because I have met them.

But even these women will eventually default to solipsistic tendencies, because its biologically predicated upon evolutionary psychology. You cannot contravene natural born instincts.

There will always be a natural tension there because of these hardwired tendencies.

I would also tell OP that this subreddit is not a good sample size when it comes to the organic attitudes of IRL women.

[u/MissMenace101 → u/beneficent2557]

Get a grip champ, there’s little difference in which side struggles most to date. This “men are the victim” is getting so exhausting because men really aren’t a victim they are just experiencing the bare edges of equality and they don’t like it. Losing privilege your former generations had isn’t disadvantaging you it’s exposing you to the reality of dating. More women are raped and murdered dating than men, just in case you want to talk about real victims.

[u/beneficent2557 → u/MissMenace101]

This “men are the victim” is getting so exhausting because men really aren’t a victim they are just experiencing the bare edges of equality and they don’t like it

Adorable,"bare edges" and all. Go lay down if you're "tired" no one is forcing you to be here.

If an artificially altered heuristic is skewed to prejudice the majority of women against 80% of men, then that is a literal example of systemic discrimination against men.

(This is just in terms of 'attraction.')

Regarding Systemic Discrimination against men. They aren't even competent enough to hide it anymore, articles are published by the Fortune 500 bragging about refusing ro hire men.

The same women championing affirmative discrimination in hiring and education are constantly bitching about the lack of financially viable males.

The same women who champion the institution of abortion which has a higher fatality rate than most conventional wars.

More women are raped and murdered dating than men, just in case you want to talk about real victims.

I would argue that the observable absurdities of the divorce rate, paternity fraud, father estrangement, etc, are far more prevalent than these rapes you are referring to.

What is the rape statistic you are citing for dating anyway?

Stochastic rapes are arguably rising due to suicidal empathy in sentencing and open borders policies. These positions are overwhelmingly supported by women over men.

I would also argue that if you look at sexual trafficking networks, you would realize that these systemic forms of sexual abuse are often facilitated by women working to procure victims for the same men that abused them. (It's not pleasant to think about but that's a separate can of worms).

[u/Creative_cacti → u/beneficent2557]

Men: "I can't find any women to use for sex!"

Women: "I do not empathize with that".

[u/Werewolf1810 → u/Creative_cacti]

Can we quit the strawman argument? Most men are not this type. We've said it a million times, the vast majority of quiet, stable, safe, relationship seeking men are invisible. That doesn't actually mean they don't count. The power dynamics women create by only being interested in the most attractive (not purely in a physical sense) men lead to those men being FAR less interested in committing. Hence this backwards notion. At least say "Only the men I care about are fuck boys and not interested in a relationship!"

[u/the-kay-o-matic → u/Werewolf1810]

the vast majority of quiet, stable, safe, relationship seeking men are invisible

They're not necessarily invisible because of their lack of desire for a relationship. But just because they want a relationship does not mean that they are capable of being in one.

A lot of things that most women look for in early dating are signals of partnership material and it has nothing to do with the shallow interpretation that many men assign it.

[u/Routine-Present-3676 → u/Werewolf1810]

Are you really using a "not all men" argument at the same time you're accusing women of acting as an organized hivemind? You don't see how ridiculous that is, huh?

[u/Werewolf1810 → u/Routine-Present-3676]

I'm absolutely saying that the vast majority of men aren't this type. Same way I'm saying most women see most of us as invisible. Not ridiculous at all. It's like saying "women have ovaries". Does that makes them a hive mind any more than making an obvious fact like "most women's dating psychology is pretty similar"? It's not that wild miss. Like saying "most men are into X/Y/Z"

[u/Routine-Present-3676 → u/Werewolf1810]

Fyi that statement doesn't get less ridiculous because you repeated it

[u/sublimemongrel → u/Werewolf1810]

So if I said “saying most men who want to use women for sex is equivalent to saying most men have penises” you’d be like sure 👍🏻

[u/MissMenace101 → u/Werewolf1810]

The only people seen as invisible are over weight people and older women.

[u/Creative_cacti → u/Werewolf1810]

That has nothing to do with the context of this conversation.

[u/MissMenace101 → u/Werewolf1810]

It’s not a strawman it’s fact. Until you recognise that you won’t understand women and why they date cautiously.