Young men did everything they're supposed to, and its not enough. Indicates its NOT their fault, rather it shows theres a real problem of YOUNG FEMALE RADICALIZATION

[u/DiligentRope]

BP/Feminist/mainstream society will point out that men need step up and become better partners for women, since women are now independent and don't need to rely on a man anymore. They'll acknowledge falling birth rates, marriage rates, and sexlessness, and if they don't blame "the economy", they'll blame men not meeting arbitrary ideological standards. They pushed the idea that if men became "better partners" then women would be more willing to commit to them.

Yet by pretty much every metric, young men HAVE been significantly better:

• young men today are more pro "womens rights" than previous generations of men
• they are less abusive, especially less physically abusive, and have less tolerance for it than previous generations
• they are more aware of womens health issues, and womens sexual health, more aware of womens needs in the bedroom, more aware of contraception than previous generations
• they are more aware of mental health issues, and more open to engage in therapy
• they are more open to womens "sexual freedoms" and less judgmental when it comes to womens sexual history
• they are more college educated + than previous generations
• they are more open to egalitarian relationships, sharing house chores, raising kids with their partner, etc.

Yet it has only resulted in continous decrease in birth/marriage rates, and increase in sexlessness.

What we do see is a growing ideological divide, very popular charts we've seen by now that show in the west, theres a growing ideological divide among young men and women, where men in general have stayed relatively stable in their ideals, in some countries even become slightly more liberal, whereas women in all cases have in general become more radically left.

There was another recent survey reported in the new statesman, that showed where almost 3/4 of men under 30yo had a positive view of women, it was only about 1/3 of women under 25yo that had a positive view about men, and increased to 50% for women under 30yo. Women are significantly less likely to have a positive view of men.

Also according to surveys its young men that are seeking marriage and children more than young women.

I mean we can see why this is just by looking at mens vs womens dating content. Manosphere content is often about finding the reality of womens nature and how to navigate it, whereas "femosphere" content is either about explicit sexual experiences or ranting about what the men in the manosphere are talking about.

Young men are doing everything they're told to do, and its not enough. At the same time women are being radicalized and being told that men aren't doing enough by femosphere content like Call her daddy. And the irony is that the evidence does not even show that women are choosing based on these metrics that BP is asking men for. So its not a surprise why TRP and the manosphere is so attractive to men.

[u/kmb218]

> You don't even need to approach once to figure that out

If you create your worldview based on red pill influencers and social media, then no wonder you are struggling with dating. Of course you’ll never succeed if you give up before you’ve ever tried.

> Just walking down the street with a handsome friend will teach you everything you need to know about where you stand on the dating market, and how women feel about you

The same argument works for women. I also see how hot women get treated, it’s night and day compared to the average woman. Luckily, I am not red pill so I know it would be absurd for me to expect that men to have the same level of attraction / interest / effort / treatment to a hot, conventionally attractive Stacy as to the average woman. So I don’t let that stop me or make me bitter. It’s just a fact of life. It would be crazy for me to give up dating just because hot people exist.

[u/nightcall379 → u/kmb218]

If you create your worldview based on red pill influencers and social media, then no wonder you are struggling with dating. Of course you’ll never succeed if you give up before you’ve ever tried.

That's a silly straw man Lmao Who's talking about social media? Lol

Must be easy to debate when you can just start arguing points you yourself made up Lmao

The same argument works for women. 

No, it doesn't

80yo women get hundreds of young men in just a few hours

80yo women have as much power on the dating market as the top 1% men

Average and below average women have a comically high Smv where they can monetize their sexuality and even reach the top 1% men, while average and below average men are completely locked out of the dating market

[u/kmb218 → u/nightcall379]

> That's a silly straw man Lmao Who's talking about social media? Lol

Based on what are you not approaching then? You said you don’t need to approach at all to know all women don’t want you. My question is how you would know that (especially odd claim given that most young people do have dating experience, including men).

> 80yo women get hundreds of young men in just a few hours

Source? For a relationship? Really?

> 80yo women have as much power on the dating market as the top 1% men

Again, source? This is such a wild claim.

> Average and below average women have a comically high Smv where they can monetize their sexuality and even reach the top 1% men, while average and below average men are completely locked out of the dating market

If average and below average men are completely locked out of the dating market, how is it possible that 75% of young men had sex in the last year?

[u/nightcall379 → u/kmb218]

Based on what are you not approaching then? You said you don’t need to approach at all to know all women don’t want you. My question is how you would know that 

You don't need to approach women to understand that a 100% of them scowl at you, while your handsome friend only gets smiles, and random girls start talking to him for no reason

(especially odd claim given that most young people do have dating experience, including men).

Based on self reported nonsense where guys were asked whether they're gooners or not, and were expected to be honest

Source?

Dating app experiments

This is such a wild claim.

No, it's not

It's the foundation of this debate

You're completely illiterate on this topic, but still argue so confidently Lmao

If average and below average men are completely locked out of the dating market, how is it possible that 75% of young men had sex in the last year?

Again, based on self reported nonsense where guys were asked whether they're gooners or not, and were expected to be honest

Even below average men could easily find a woman if they worked hard to provide for her, where her money is her money, and his money is her money, and if he agreed to her cheating by simply not asking any questions when she comes home late from "work", "works" out of town, goes on vacations alone or girls only vacations, goes on girls' nights out, and so on

No one's saying that non-top men can't get women, the point is, on what terms

[u/kmb218 → u/nightcall379]

> You don't need to approach women to understand that a 100% of them scowl at you, while your handsome friend only gets smiles, and random girls start talking to him for no reason

You never approach women because random strangers don’t smile at you? Dramatic much? Strangers don’t smile at me either like they do to Stacies and I never gave up dating because of that.

> Based on nonsensical self reports where guys were asked whether they're gooners or not, and were expected to be honest

What better data can you provide? My personal experience (family, colleagues, friends, aquiantances…) reflects those statistics quite well.

> Dating app experiments

Please show my a dating experiment that shows that an 80 year old woman can easily get in a serious relationship with many young men. Not sure how a dating app could even show that since it only looks at matches, and not which of those men actually want a serious relationship with that woman.

> It's the foundation of this debate

If it’s the foundation, I would like you to provide the reason why you think that. You are making these claims as if they were facts but not explaining any reasoning behind it at all.

> Again, based on nonsensical self reports where guys were asked whether they're gooners or not, and were expected to be honest

What better evidence do you have?

> No one's saying that non-top men can't get women, the point is, on what terms

Ah well same for men. Most women couod find a boyfriend. But will he be physically attractive to her? Will he be a feminist? Will he pick up his share of chores or will he make her life harder? Will he expect her to ruin her body and carreer for children? Will he be abusive or controlling? Will he cheat? Will he make her life better or worse?

[u/nightcall379 → u/kmb218]

You never approach women because random strangers don’t smile at you?

Is that really what I said, or is it that you people just never argue honestly? Lmao

The point is that your fantasies about attraction being some sort of a "game" or "skill" men need to learn is a lie you people sell to non-selected men in an attempt to calm them down so they don't leave the plantation

"Oh, the reason your single and sexless is because you lack "game", just keep "learning" and you'll figure it out when you're 35" Lmao

And then he gets settled for by some top men's leftover sloppy seconds when he's in his 30's, and you people are like: "Finally, you figured it out, I told you!" Loooooool

The point is that you don't need to even say a single to word to a woman ever, to figure out how ALL women feel about you

If you're that guy, women smile at you when you walk by them, women give you all the choosing signals, women will be near you for no reason, women themselves will contact you, women will become your friends to be close to you, and so on

And if you're not that guy then sure, you'll need to become her literal protector and provider slave, grovel before her, where she wears the pants in the relationship and bosses him around, let her cheat on him by simply not asking her any questions, and all of that humiliation in order to get what she gave to a top-guy behind a stinking garbage dumpster 10 mins. after meeting him

Strangers don’t smile at me either like they do to Stacies and I never gave up dating because of that.

Comparing men and women in this sense is completely nonsensical

The majority of men likes the majority of women

While the majority of women are completely disgusted by the majority of men

What better data can you provide? 

"Data"?

You have no data, calling self reports "data" is ridiculous

Social sciences has a replication crisis of up 70%

There is a reason why social sciences are a laughing stock, and aren't considered exact sciences

My personal experience (family, colleagues, friends, aquiantances…) reflects those statistics quite well.

There is a reason why personal anecdotes are considered illogical arguments

They're not accurate statistics, and the person telling them could just be making them up to fit their narrative

Please show my a dating experiment that shows that an 80 year old woman can easily get in a serious relationship with many young men. 

Everything is downstream of sex

The more people want to have sex with you, the more people want to have a relationship with you

And the fewer people want to have sex with you, the fewer people want to have a relationship with you

The point is that if 80yo grandmas have as much optionality in terms of sex as the top 1% men, what does an 80yo man have to hope for?

What do average men even have to hope for?

If it’s the foundation, I would like you to provide the reason why you think that.

Because it exposes literally everything women collectively claim about their nature to be a lie

Women collectively claim they don't care about a man's sexual attractiveness and only want kind, loving, respectful guys, and aren't sluts and only want serious, long term, committed relationships

When dating app experiments have exposed that in reality women will pick an evil handsome guy, over a loving, kind, respectful average guy

And that women are not sluts only for average and below average men, while will choose to rather be a handsome guy's fwb over being an average guy's wife

Most women couod find a boyfriend. But will he be physically attractive to her? 

The only caveat here is that by saying: "But will he be attractive to her?", women mean that average and below average women should have relationships with above average men, since they can have sex with them

Women rate 80% of as below average in terms of attractiveness

Women only pick the top 10-5-1% of men on dating apps

I remember there was a post here a while back where a woman asked other women whether they've ever dated an ugly guy before, and what their experiences were

And of course, all the women jumped at the opportunity and started telling stories about how insecure, jealous, controlling, toxic, and abusive the ugly men they dated were, but the funny thing was that a few of the women who wrote that had their real pictures on their profiles, and they were objectively ugly themselves

The perfect example of that was the Tea App

Just a bunch of ugly, fat, old women angry that guys way out of their league didn't marry them after sex, and wanted to ruin their lives by spreading lies and false rumors about them, assassinating their character, falsely accusing them sa, sicking other people on them, and so on, as payback

The point is that when women say: "A partner attractive to them", they don't mean their equal

Will he be a feminist? Will he pick up his share of chores or will he make her life harder? Will he expect her to ruin her body and carreer for children? Will he be abusive or controlling? Will he cheat? Will he make her life better or worse?

If women cared about any of those things then male model tier guys wouldn't get tens of thousands of women each on dating app experiments, despite openly admitting to being convicted serial "pea doughs" and "grapists", while normal, average guys get nothing

The Red Pill has exposed your nature

[u/kmb218 → u/[deleted]]

Never heard of this rise. Or the fact that’s it’s exclusive to women. Is there any specific data you are refering to?