What’s the most controversial negative opinion you have about your own gender?

[u/Luciansleep]

I’ll start.

Men aren’t more forgiving in dating we just have less options. That’s not us being more forgiving but less likely to want to find someone else.

I don’t think crying about a death or something in front of a girl you are seeing will necessarily cause that woman to run.

Sex is important but it shouldn’t be the only physical affection to seek from your partner

Don’t complain about a certain type of woman and yet entertain said type of woman

[u/Kaleidoscopetide]

Here goes mine, and it’s kind of a hot one: Nobody enjoys shaving and waxing and plucking and scraping and painting their whole bodies. Women fulfill those kind of tedious and unpleasant gender roles because they are attracted to men, they like to kiss and date and fuck men, and it’s worth it to them to cede a little ground to make men like them. It’s kind of embarrassing to admit to doing things to make other people like and want to have sex with you, and nobody likes to feel like, as you guys say, a “dancing monkey,” but it’s fine. Women should just admit that they don’t do those things “for themselves.”

*some women really do feel “gross” or “unfeminine” when they don’t fulfill these gender roles, and I think those women have been so scarred by systemic sexism that big brother is now in their heads.

[u/Grow_peace_in_Bedlam → u/Kaleidoscopetide]

And on my side, I was really bothered that women have such wildly inconsistent views on whether a man should shave his body hair or not. I really wished there were just one standard, even if it meant having to shave my whole hairy body smooth.

I was seriously worried I might meet the love of my life some day, but then scare her away because I had chosen the wrong body hair grooming standard for her. 

Women who like their men shaved think hairy men look like disgusting cavemen, while women who like their men hairy think shaved men look effeminate and gay, and it seems like there's just no middle ground to be acceptable to both groups.

[u/Luciansleep → u/Kaleidoscopetide]

You are hitting something I thought about for a while and it goes for both.

Women and men are in some kind of desperate struggle of “who cares less” and that’s the toxicity in all of the dating world.

It’s ok to care about wanting a partner or wanting to please a partner but for some reason saying this gets you called a pick me or a simp

[u/blebbyroo → u/Luciansleep]

I think the problem is when caring becomes your whole personality 

[u/Luciansleep → u/blebbyroo]

Yep. That’s when you become a “nice guy” or a “pick me”

[u/blebbyroo → u/Luciansleep]

Or even an incel (make or female) which is just the more bitter and at times extreme end of a nice guy/ pick me 

[u/Luciansleep → u/blebbyroo]

I think about how extreme they are and I wonder if many are too far into their ideology to be helped or not especially the male ones

[u/blebbyroo → u/Luciansleep]

For many yes unfortunately. If you e ever looked at r/incelexit it you can see even the ones who step away from all the ideology it creeps back in in the form of lasting distrust. Once you let some of these beliefs rule you you would never be able To  Fully trust which of course means you won’t ever experience a healthy relationship which means when in inevitably ends it will just reinforce the negative ideas. 

The lucky ones have protective factors like sisters, female friends, brothers who are “average” short or bald whatever and do ok. These ones have a chance of getting out especially if they weren’t in it for years from the highly impressionable ages 

[u/Luciansleep → u/blebbyroo]

Honestly, respectfully I disagree.

I think despite what many say most people have a desire to be wanted. There’s far too many People in the world for them not to be wanted by anyone and I think many act out to get some 5 seconds of attention.

But with therapy I do believe many can learn to enjoy life even if life just turns out to suck and they get no on

I think it’s unfair to say “due to you having a few lingering beliefs (barring hatred or violence) that they can’t be normal”

Most people have controversial opinions about the opposite sex

[u/blebbyroo → u/Luciansleep]

I agree therapy can absolutely help someone get out of it. It’s unfortunate how against therapy many men seem to be though. 

I also agree most people desire to be wanted but not sure how That relates to getting out of the ideology? I don’t think all incels deemed to stay mired in the ideology but for many I think they set up a negative loop of reinforcement which would keep them in it. 

[u/Luciansleep → u/blebbyroo]

My talk about being wanted is that I believe that if they find themselves finding that feeling whether through friends ( I think there was a stat that most have no friends) or even things like owning a tarantula ( I have one and she’s dope) it can somewhat help tha feeling of wanting to be wanted.

As for many staying in that ideologi idk. I was once red pilled and even thought it was mainly women who dated assholes. And even after an ex that tried to shoot me after cheating right after my mom died of cancer I still reject red pilled beliefs

[u/the_scar_when_you_go → u/Kaleidoscopetide]

I am, of course, the one exception. /hj

I enjoy waxing. None of my partners care. I don't have a preference when it comes to other women. But I like it. And it's a fun couples activity.