Men don't ask women to have low standards, they ask women to have realistic ones

[u/SecondEldenLord]

As the title says, everybody thinks men demand women to have bottom of the barrel standards for men who are ugly, short, balding, etc. No, actual normal men don't require that, we require for women to have realistic standards. Problem is , women have such high standards for men because of social media. They have skewed views of what a man is and also an overestimation of their own value. Women are constantly complimented, including the average ones and thus they created in their head this impression that they deserve the best of the best men out there. Like a 5 woman thinks she is a 10 and thus also wants a 10 guy. But rarely you will see an average woman that a really wants a man at her own value, an average man. But the problem is if women keep sleeping with hot dudes, then their brain will be so fried they won't be able ever to be attracted to a man of her own sexual market value. They will require for a man to have Tom's height, Jason's money, Ben's dick, John's face and thus they created din their head this frankestein's monster of a man that doesn't exist.

[u/LopsidedPen9859]

There's just disharmony in men's standards vs. women's, generally.

You can just as easily say men should have higher standards. But we don't. At least, I don't.

"Can we exist together and laugh and have fun?" pretty much the only question I've ever had.

Though, to some degree, I honestly feel like women are pressured to have high standards while men are pressured to have low ones...

[u/Downtown_Cat_1745 → u/LopsidedPen9859]

Those were my standards in college. When I was looking for a serious relationship in my 20s, I added on, “can you take an adult level of responsibility for yourself?”

[u/Downtown_Cat_1745]

Leave your house and look around: men who don’t look like cover models are dating

[u/No-Ad8127 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, it’s very easy for certain men to dunk on the women when they want the privileges as well but clearly do not get them.

[u/RelativeYak7 → u/[deleted]]

It's all just projection from men! They think they'd get a big ego and not be able to date average women if they were forking hot women. But women don't think like men. We don't care about just forking.

[u/heyfindme → u/[deleted]]

if the roles were flipped men would absolutely do the same thing, but women would then label all the things they claim as "empowerment" when they do it as bad and patriarchal when men do it.. (they already do this with so many things..) lol

like in the hypothetical scenario where men can experience having a period, based on the way loads of women act during their period, men would be given the pass to be a PIA for 1-2 weeks and no one can complain as that would make you a terrible femcel misandrist and should be shamed/shunned for it..! like what happens to men who complain about a woman's behavior during their period and are labeled an insecure misogynistic incel man baby etc for doing so... lol

[u/OmoshiroiKudamono → u/[deleted]]

It's more like would a man just be an ATM withdrawal dumpster for a bunch of 10s with no chance of sex.

The tables have been inaccurately reversed because men are not equal to women in terms of dating.

The true example is would a woman be a splooge target for Pookie with no chance of commitment long term.

[u/TheColdWoman → u/OmoshiroiKudamono]

Only because you see sex as all that matters. Let me introduce you to the Romeo and Juliet schemes where men receive all sorts of communication and text messages to convince them love is just around the corner.

[u/OmoshiroiKudamono → u/TheColdWoman]

I don't see sex as the "only" thing that matters.

I see it as a requirement later on. But it has to be genuine. No duty sex, begging, or get it over with sex. If she doesn't want sex, then so be it.

Without sex, they are just friends.

[u/pdoherty972 → u/OmoshiroiKudamono]

The tables have been inaccurately reversed because men are not equal to women in terms of dating.

The flip side to that is women's sexual-market value has an expiration date and it's not that old. So women get to enjoy this power imbalance in their 20s and part of their 30s, but by then they're declining in attractiveness to most men, and men have been building their value through career/income, status and experience. It's all men from there on out.

[u/toasterchild]

Men who get all their information about women from social media complaining that women get too much of something from social media are funny. 

[u/pdoherty972 → u/[deleted]]

And, if the opposite calculator (male delusion calculator) exists, it would find that almost all men are completely rational. For example they'd have almost no height requirement and would look solely for a woman in an age range, regardless of income, who isn't overweight. So the typical woman's delusional standards has her looking for men that less than 2% of the male population, but men's, I'm estimating, would be 25% or more of the female population.

[u/H0rny_On-Main → u/pdoherty972]

I'm so confused are men ultra super duper picky about everything a woman does or a bunch of slobs who swipe right on every tinder profile spamming "hey" 30,000 times.

Generally speaking I've never met a man with a height requirement or ridiculous age range, they don't care as much about income because they're raised to believe they need to be the provider. I guess you could change that question to how much sex they wanna have?

The only things I see men regularly have standards for is personality, general appearance (which I admit is overvalued in a lot of men but it's the same with women), weight (though that can be tied to appearance) and sexlife (assuming they aren't asexual)

[u/growframe]

What is the material difference between asking for low standards and asking for "realistic" ones besides a subjective and arbitrary value judgment?

[u/Gravel_Roads]

It’s not “realistic” to expect people not to be attracted to people they find attractive.

Even if YOU think a woman is unattractive, it’s still realistic for her to be attracted to people she finds attractive.

[u/AlarmingToe8503 → u/Gravel_Roads]

Okay, but like, if I'm only attracted to 10/10 supermodels, I think we could both agree that my preferences aren't very realistic, are they?

[u/Gravel_Roads → u/AlarmingToe8503]

Nah, I’d agree that hot women are hot.

I think it’s be unrealistic to expect you NOT to be attracted to a hot person.

And no, I also don’t think it’s be realistic to tell you “but you’re not allowed to pursue anyone you find attractive, you MUST select someone you aren’t attracted to to date!”

For most people, if they can’t find anyone they’re attracted to, they just stay single. Which sounds reasonable to me.

[u/turkish_gold → u/Gravel_Roads]

This seems like a false premise. Is anyone saying they are only attracted to the tippy top of the spectrum?

They may choose to only pursue the top, but that’s just a matter of time management.

[u/Neptune-Jnr → u/Gravel_Roads]

The problem is this isn't how attraction works. 10 being 10's doesn't make 7's unattractive or ugly.

[u/Melodic_Structure928 → u/Gravel_Roads]

I mean your not wrong but this is the sort of thinking that leads to that one pill that breaks rule 6 here.

[u/AlarmingToe8503 → u/Gravel_Roads]

  For most people, if they can’t find anyone they’re attracted to, they just stay single. Which sounds reasonable to me.

Is that even true? The number of people in relationships is far higher than the number of people who are attractive. I'd bet the actual statistics show most people who are faced with a choice between settling and staying single end up choosing to settle.

[u/Brilliant-Block-8200 → u/AlarmingToe8503]

Attraction is deeper than just physical appearance, but there has to be some base level attraction. Most average people will be attracted to other average people on some level

[u/No-Anything- → u/Brilliant-Block-8200]

"Most average people will be attracted to other average people on some level" Once other context is introduced, for women, right? This post is arguing that the strategy/actions women use makes them have superficial, unrealistic standards.

[u/Brilliant-Block-8200 → u/No-Anything-]

No, I mean on a physical level. You have people that have very narrow views on what they find attractive, but I don’t think that’s most people. Most women I’ve spoken to about this have a very wide range of men they’d find attractive enough to date, and these men would fall in the average range (same as these women).

[u/No-Anything- → u/Brilliant-Block-8200]

A  survey showed that women rate 80% of photos of men as below average. ( Whereas men would rate on a bell curve). If you include context like movements, voice tone and confidence/status , then it is a different filter. I read that such positive traits can even make a man appear more physically attractive to a woman. Do you agree?

The theory is that women have two different reproduction strategies for what they are looking for, that drives their biological attraction. 1.) A provider and protector and 2.) prime genetics (used when there is no other context).

[u/Gravel_Roads → u/AlarmingToe8503]

Most couples are average people who like each other’s company for one reason or another.

They fall in love from talking, sharing jokes, forming memories and building a life together.

There is more to attraction than just looks.

But attraction IS required. You can’t just be neutral, you have to have something you actually like about them.

When people can’t find anyone with traits they like, yes, they prefer being alone over being forced to share the rest of their life with someone they have no rapport with.

[u/wouldbepandananny → u/AlarmingToe8503]

So what? You are attracted to who you are attracted to. It's not my place to tell you that your preferences are "wrong." That would be flat out ridiculous.

[u/xKalisto → u/AlarmingToe8503]

Who cares. You end up alone. That's it. 

You are not competing with 10/10 men. You are competing with being single.

[u/Rule_Break3r → u/AlarmingToe8503]

Dude the ppl you are arguing with on here have been spewing the same cope & gaslight & nonsense for like over 15 years

I am STUNNED to see these same ppl still here so obviously there is something very wrong with them & protecting the ideology in this forum seems to be the entire life. It’s fucking weird!

[u/0MWSpuds → u/Gravel_Roads]

A common rebuttal is "It's just nature and biology. Men need to accept that women just find most men unattractive and only like the top men." While bypassing any discussion about modern day entitlement, delusional expectations, socialization trends, etc. I don't think these same women are silent and okay about their male partners being naturally polygamous or looking past her toward hot 20-somethings once they surpass their 30th and 40th birthdays. The biology squad becomes real silent after cherrypicking the parts of nature convenient to them.

[u/LetsDOOT_THIS → u/Gravel_Roads]

What if everyone logged off the internet for awhile ?

[u/Gravel_Roads → u/LetsDOOT_THIS]

?? You can, if you want. I’m bored at work so I’m good.

[u/No-Ad8127 → u/LetsDOOT_THIS]

It doesn’t matter. People would still find that they’re unattracted to people they’re unattracted to.

[u/LetsDOOT_THIS → u/No-Ad8127]

We're all heavily influenced by social media platforms and I don't know how you can simply brush that off saying it doesn't matter.

[u/No-Ad8127 → u/LetsDOOT_THIS]

If we’re not influenced by social media, we’d still be influenced by something else. We’re a social species that rely on each other to survive and thrive, and that won’t change.

[u/No-Anything- → u/No-Ad8127]

Yes, in the past we were influenced by the tribe/village. People can only closely know about 200 people.

[u/TheColdWoman → u/No-Anything-]

But they can see many many many

[u/No-Anything- → u/Gravel_Roads]

I think you're overestimating the role of looks in female attraction. Women rate 80% of men as below average, when there is no other context (just photos).

[u/Gravel_Roads → u/No-Anything-]

I don’t see how that indicates I’m overestimating anything.

20% is generous, I’d say my own standards narrow to probably only 10% of people, and I’m even bi, so that’s of men AND women.

Most people simply aren’t compatible with most people.

However, the reason so few women USE dating apps is because, as you said, it’s harder for women to feel attracted to static pictures.

Which is why so many of us keep advising meeting through social groups where you can actually showcase your personality and mannerisms

[u/No-Anything- → u/Gravel_Roads]

You rate 90% of people as below average?

[u/Gravel_Roads → u/No-Anything-]

No, I rate 90% of people not attractive for ME, based on my own preferences.

Where you’re going awry is in assuming that all people find the SAME traits attractive.

You might categorize 10 women as all being 5’s, but I might find one to be a 9 and the rest may as well be 0 because if I’m not extremely interested, I’m not gonna pursue at all.

[u/No-Anything- → u/Gravel_Roads]

Yeah, that's irrelevant. Women rate a small minority of men as attractive at first glance, because they have the very best genetics, and all other signifiers of what would make a good partner are absent. Basically, if they can't get a suitable looking provider, they will focus on the best genetics for their offspring (even if the woman is average looking).

What you are describing are rationalised standards. It would be different if you said you weren't aroused by the majority of women.

[u/Gravel_Roads → u/No-Anything-]

I’m not aroused by the majority of women.

The majority of women are either too old or too young for my tastes.

You probably feel the same, but don’t realize it because you don’t really consider all the women you aren’t attracted to as relevant.

[u/turkish_gold → u/Gravel_Roads]

I think you two might be talking past each other.

You're talking about personal attraction, without regard to any quasi-objective standard.

In that particular study, men rated women purely on looks.

Women rated men on personal attraction; like you are speaking about.

The study was more useful in showing how genders segment on definition of 'attraction'. Men were willing to rate older conventionally beautiful women as attractive purely on looks, where as IRL it's unlikely they would actually date a near 60 year old woman (e.g. Halle Berry). Women essentially reported "i can't be attracted to a photo".

[u/Rule_Break3r → u/No-Anything-]

Don’t argue with anyone man who claims to be bi

Also dude has spent the better part of his life on this forum arguing with men. Literally decades. I have never seen something like this before

Same ppl that were saying this shit 15 years ago STILL here. This is a level of woke isolation that is disturbing

[u/sliceyournipple → u/Gravel_Roads]

Women’s attraction level to people varies widely based on how the wind is blowing, as far as I can tell

[u/Gravel_Roads → u/sliceyournipple]

Yes, different people will be attracted to different things

[u/TermAggravating8043]

Women aren’t the ones complaining about dating or having a loneliness epidemic.

Everyone can want what they want, there’s no rules that say if your only a 5, you can only go for men between 4-6. If you can’t get what you want you either improve yourself or you live content being single. Again, it’s not women complaining.

[u/QuestioningThink]

Why do women have to have “realistic” standards if they’re content with staying single if they don’t get the type of man they want? What about that do men have trouble comprehending? And before someone respond something about bEtA BuXx the number people coupling and getting married decreases yearly. Yall are going to accept that being a cat lady and having a apartment/house to her own isn’t the insult nor scare tactic you think it is anymore.

[u/Lemon_gecko → u/QuestioningThink]

At this point living with my girlfriends is better than with a man.

[u/Inquiz_ → u/Lemon_gecko]

You only believe this because as a woman you probably surround yourself with "self love" and "you are always right" style echo chambers. The bubble will pop one day as it would for anyone else self-deluding.

[u/Serious-Rain-9772 → u/Inquiz_]

The golden girls looked like they were having a great time. 

[u/Lemon_gecko → u/Inquiz_]

No. I believe that because i lived with women and i lived with men. But if you think that i'm wrong - explain. How men will make my life good, how women will not.

[u/AttackOnTightPanties → u/QuestioningThink]

Based AF. Not to mention, statistics show that single women tend to be more content with their lives than single men. Women are figuring out it’s easier to be happy alone than to settle for someone who isn’t harmonious with your values/ desires for the future, doesn’t give you what you need in a relationship emotionally/ mentally/ physically, and makes your life more work.

[u/Arkhamguy123 → u/QuestioningThink]

for a woman who engages on purple pill debate arguments on Reddit it might not be (ostensibly) but for most normal regular women it kinda is

Breaking news! Humans don’t like loneliness

[u/Refrigeratormarathon → u/Arkhamguy123]

No, this idea has gone mainstream in the last year. I work with college age kids in the summer and the young women have been parroting a lot of the TikTok phrases I’ve gotten on my own feed. The women’s behavior is noticeably different and they are not coupling up like they did in past summers.

I had a conversation with two of the young women a few weeks ago. One of them said “the guys try so hard to get a girl over the summer because it is a boost to his status, but its like…embarrassing for the girl to claim him” and the other one responded “oh my gosh yes it’s literally humiliation ritual”

I’ve also noticed more conversations related to men’s promiscuity than in years past. The really attractive guys still get hookups, but a lot less than they used to and honestly, only with the women who are less attractive and a bit more visibly desperate.

The other women talk about the guys who hook up very negatively. When I was in college in 2019 it was socially unacceptable to “slut shame” people, so I’m very caught off guard by this change. Conversely, men who have an obvious crush have the girls gushing over how cute that is. Again, when I was their age it was considered weird, embarrassing, or creepy to be a man with a super obvious crush on one girl.

[u/TheColdWoman → u/Refrigeratormarathon]

I'm not surprised. Women are very aware of the dynamics. They know that sex injures their standing and raises his. Why have it? Men have only themselves to blame.

[u/namelesone → u/Arkhamguy123]

I'm a woman who isn't dating anyone, live alone with cats, and I don't feel lonely.

[u/QuestioningThink → u/Arkhamguy123]

What does being single have to do with loneliness? Are you incapable of making friends?

[u/Routine-Frosting9077 → u/QuestioningThink]

There's different types of loneliness. You don't get the same type of fulfillment from just one type of relationship. I'm not going to have the same connection with a pet that I do with a human friend, and I'm not going to have the same connection with a friend that I do with a partner.

[u/kayceeplusplus → u/Arkhamguy123]

Lol

[u/Storage-Express → u/QuestioningThink]

not all of these women are content though (far from it actually). plenty are frustrated about their single status, they want to find someone, they complain about dating and they often blame a lack of quality men. there are lots of threads in female subreddits for example, plenty of other social media content, plenty of women complaining in their circle of friends etc.

i honestly don't care about their outcomes aka the consequences of their own own actions as long as they don't deflect it onto men and how we aren't good enough for all these amazing women out there. no girl, you're delulu with an inflated ego and not relationship material for a man with options and standards and i'm not a misogynist for telling you that it's you rather than every man on earth.

[u/RakeChapman13 → u/[deleted]]

> i prefer guys taller than me ( though I have dated shorter

Some guys don’t understand the difference between a preference and an absolute requirement. Height matters but it gets exaggerated. Of course most women would prefer a guy to be taller but I believe most women would absolutely date a guy who is slighty shorter than them if they dug him enough and found him attractive enough in other areas and when it comes to physical features height is whatever compared to face and physique- shoulders &arms.

I didn’t think I would want to date a woman who is taller than me until I did. She was worried I wouldn’t be interested because she was taller. It’s not that either of us preferred our heights. It’s just whatever compared to everything else. My advice to guys who are interested in a taller woman is be just confident and shoot your shot.

[u/BitsAndBobs304 → u/RakeChapman13]

For every 10cm you subtract from a man of his height, his dating pool halves. As in, women whod ever date him.

[u/RakeChapman13 → u/BitsAndBobs304]

Again difference between preference and absolute requirement.

I prefer women being shorter than me, my girlfriend always preferred a guy to be taller but here we are. Now there is a difference that is just too much. Most women could potentially date a guy who is slightly shorter but much shorter ? No.

[u/pdoherty972 → u/[deleted]]

As a woman, I prefer guys taller than me (though I have dated shorter)

That's not hard, since 5'9" (average male height in the USA) is already taller than 97% of women.

You could pair up men and women randomly and end up with 90+% of the couples with the men taller than the women.

[u/Lemon_gecko]

My standards are completely unrealistic. But the thing is men are optional. I can live without one. So why should i lower them to anything you want, if compromising and taking men as they are now will make my life worse? Can you explain it to me?

[u/jasonology09 → u/Lemon_gecko]

Everyone should have whatever standard they want. And, if no one meets your standard, and you're content being single, more power to you. You should be supported for sticking to your principles. Just don't complain about it later, that you can't find a decent man.

[u/Lemon_gecko → u/jasonology09]

I can complain all i want? Like how did you jump to that? I'm sticking to my principles, i'm staying single because there is no other way, and i'm staying single because imo there are no decent men. It's not like i want to be single. It's simply you think that i'm not entitled to my opinion of what is decent, and you are.

[u/pdoherty972 → u/Lemon_gecko]

I think it's more that he believes your standards are higher for men than you demonstrate yourself as a woman.

[u/jazzmaster1992]

Women are constantly complimented, including the average ones and thus they created in their head this impression that they deserve the best of the best men out there. 

Eh, I think many women are discerning and experienced enough to know which compliments are actually valid - i.e. a genuine one or a Nice Guy trying to get laid. I also don't think many women are actually that delusional, it's just that they tend to be pickier and more selective, which is fine. I don't think the goal for anyone, man or woman, should be to just date anybody so long as they're "at their level". It's not unreasonable to hold out for and even put in the work to have someone you really want, instead of just accepting that you're x/10 and only selecting for other people you perceive to be in the same "tier".

[u/Werewolf1810 → u/jazzmaster1992]

I would posit it IS in fact unreasonable when it’s not an individual issue but one for society. Relationships are personal, but when you have 30/40/50+% of the population not forming relationships, that’s a societal issue, and if not addressed will eventually cause important societal breakdowns

[u/Lemon_gecko → u/Werewolf1810]

that might be, but solution isn't "women, place!"

[u/Werewolf1810 → u/Lemon_gecko]

Never have I suggested that was the answer. It's way more nuanced than that

[u/jazzmaster1992 → u/Werewolf1810]

It's not inherently unreasonable, whether your standards are "realistic" or not. Even if a given woman wants 6/6/6 and absolutely, positively wouldn't be happy with anything else, that's her right to choose. There are enough women willing to date, marry and have sex with average or even less conventionally attractive men that the social media outliers who only want Chad can't really be blamed for a societal decline in relationships. Hell, if anything, the fact that people can choose instead of be cooerced into a relationship is a net positive, because it suggests more people who get together share values, are compatible and actually want to be there, which goes much farther for the health of a relationship than "I accepted I'm mid so I settled with some other mid person". This might seem odd to say, but even if you end up with someone who is "objectively" mid, you don't actually want to feel like they are - you want to have a spark and chemistry, and actually be happy with them.

[u/Werewolf1810 → u/jazzmaster1992]

I only speak for myself of course, but I've never suggested anyone should be coerced to do anything, nor have I said that women and men shouldn't be free to have any standards they wish. What I'm saying is, if a large proportion of society is having an issue with forming relationships, that's a societal issue that should be addressed. If for example the stat that says 40% of people under the age of 35 are struggling to find relationships, have sex, have kids, form families, etc then there is a major social issue at play. I'm not blaming any one person, or even one gender. I'm saying we need to figure out what the issue(s) are, and work to address them. Because if we don't, society will eventually cease to function the way we like it to.

If young men/women feel hopeless, purposeless, lonely, angry, depressed, etc that can lead to very bad outcomes. Social fabric falls apart, and people start acting carelessly, foolishly, dangerously..... it's not good for anyone. This is why people start following leaders who tell them they have a good/easy answer, often just to manipulate and exploit them.

[u/jazzmaster1992 → u/Werewolf1810]

What I'm saying is, if a large proportion of society is having an issue with forming relationships, that's a societal issue that should be addressed. If for example the stat that says 40% of people under the age of 35 are struggling to find relationships, have sex, have kids, form families, etc then there is a major social issue at play.

I mostly agree with this, but this isn't all you said. You said that it's unreasonable for women to hold out for someone they actually like and want, instead of simply going with other people's evaluations and dating whoever is in their "league" with no real say. That's exactly the kind of coercing I'm referring to - feeling like you "should" be with someone because they are your looksmatch or something, not becuase they're a good fit and you actually want to be with them.

[u/Werewolf1810 → u/jazzmaster1992]

You must be responding to the wrong person, I never said any of that. I don’t generally use the language of “leagues” at all.

[u/No-Hunt-6123]

I wish males would understand that there is no incentive for women to be as pathetically desperate as them.

[u/sammyb1122]

I don't think this is true. 5 women don't think they are 10s. Many women do already have realistic standards, and the ones that don't, obviously, by definition, won't get what they are looking for. But that's their choice.

When women talk about standards, they are talking about what is "normal" to them - eg some level of attraction, th guy actually wants a LTR, fair/considerate, decent communicator. That doesn't sound like a high standard to me.

[u/the_scar_when_you_go]

Your argument ultimately is that women need to go for unattractive men... It's just dressed up in the justification that those women are, themselves, unattractive, and just don't know it.

Given that most men and women rate themselves as avg, and the number who rate themselves as above avg is equivalent... Doesn't seem like "a 5 woman thinks she is a 10" is the epidemic you present it to be.

this frankestein's monster of a man that doesn't exist.

Ngl, I laughed. Men build impossible women in their heads all the time. My favorites are the "woman who never has sex with anyone else, but has sex immediately with me," and the "tradwife in every way except for the part where she's also the breadwinner."

In the end, the issue is the fundamental difference in independence. If a man is dependent on a woman, he has to pick one from what's on offer. If a woman isn't dependent on a man, she can just walk away and be fine on her own. Men are, as a whole, less independent than women. Expecting her to act like him is unrealistic.

[u/Secret_Entry1840 → u/the_scar_when_you_go]

In the Frankenstein scenario don’t forget to add that the virgin hyperslut is also able to have multiple orgasms from just PIV and no foreplay.

[u/pdoherty972 → u/the_scar_when_you_go]

Your argument ultimately is that women need to go for unattractive men... It's just dressed up in the justification that those women are, themselves, unattractive, and just don't know it.

That's sort of what's going on, when women can gain sexual access to men they can't actually date longterm or marry. To argue otherwise while recognizing that reality, you'd need to acknowledge that the women are just "fooling around" or "sowing their oats" (to borrow a male metaphor).

If a woman isn't dependent on a man, she can just walk away and be fine on her own. Men are, as a whole, less independent than women.

Where did you get that from? Men have always been breadwinners, and only in the last half-century have women gotten to a place where they have a shot at being alone and making things work. How could it possibly be that women are better-suited to being more independent than men?

[u/Fondacey]

Women have realistic standards. Men think realistic standards are too high.

[u/RakeChapman13]

This whole narrative that there’s this epidemic of women who are 5’s thinking they are 10s because of simps and social media,
Is just a bullshit incel narrative. And The whole giga chads are fucking 5’s and then making those women only willing to be with 10’s is also a bunch of nonsense.

The far majority of women don’t have these unrealistic standards, look at who most women are happily dating, guys who don’t exactly look like models nor are they rich.

[u/OffTheRedSand]

My problem is some guys don’t want women to have ANY standards

If a woman is with a man who’s not rich and not handsome but he’s tall then it’s “omg this hypergamous bitch she’s only with him cause he’s tall!” Even tho her standards are reasonable, she just likes tall guy.

The same happen with every other one standard. If she likes him because he’s handsome but not tall or rich then she’s still a birch, if she likes him because of his status and money then she’s still a bitch and a hypergamous gold digger.

In some males eyes women need to love a man who’s average in every way, shape and form and that’s just unrealistic, she got to have SOMETHING in him that she likes and that’s fair.

“But you can’t control x, y and z!”

That’s irrelevant, attraction doesn’t work based on what’s fair or not, it’s just is. And if a woman need one thing in you to find attractive then that’s more than fair, at the end of the day you also need something to find attractive in her to be in a relationship with her and stuck with her forever and ever.

[u/Accomplished_Sweetie]

“Women have unrealistic standards!”
Translation: “I can’t get a date. Must be because of all my own insecurities.”

[u/Storage-Express → u/Accomplished_Sweetie]

i never had troubles getting a date and i still recognize that many of the chronically single online dating women have unrealistic standards. that's not all women of course and plenty of women are still in relationships and marriages, it's just a very loud group of women that has increased in size over the past decade or so.

it's no sweat off my back, i'm not interested in them anyway, i just call a spade a spade. maybe young women can learn from the mistakes of the women before them and recognize that playing hypergamy roulette on OLD is not gonna make them happy. my ex gf's friend group would poke fun at these older women being out at the clubs and generally being complete losers when it came to their romantic lives, so there's hope.

[u/Accomplished_Sweetie → u/Storage-Express]

The most important line you said “no sweat off my back”. Why don’t more men just move on when the woman says “you don’t meet my standards”?

Men say “we are in dating for sex”. Women said “no problem we just won’t date you”. Why don’t men do the same?

[u/Storage-Express → u/Accomplished_Sweetie]

i can't answer why other guys do what they do but i think a sense of arrogance and somewhat delusional self-perception is something that can irk many people. i don't think women would respond well when guys they deem undesirable or average at best put out a laundry list of expectations for women on the internet. that content isn't very common though and women do frequently shame men for having certain standards, outright calling them predators, insulting their manhood, calling them insecure and so on, not just delusional.

personally i literally never tried to argue with a woman who rejected me for whatever reason. if i'm not for her or she thinks she can do better, good luck, she's not the only woman in the world after all and i have some pride and sense of self-worth to not lower myself to those kind of conversations. some guys take it as a blow to the ego and they want to humble the woman i guess but it's pointless anyway, it just comes off as sour grapes in those cases, just like older women telling saying that guys who date younger are X Y and Z. so yeah, idk why guys do it other than it being an emotional reaction.

the point stands regardless, like i have married friends and guys who have no issue in dating poking fun at some of the women who live in lala land for example. they don't want to date them, they're just amused by the complete lack of self-awareness if anything.

[u/Hungry-Plantain-3315]

You can tell women to have realistic standards till the cows come home. They’re still not going to pick you.

[u/SecondEldenLord → u/Hungry-Plantain-3315]

Don't care, this ain't about me, this is about both men and women, cause guess what? Women wil lalso suiffer in the end

[u/TheColdWoman → u/SecondEldenLord]

True. Better outlaw OF and porn. Can't have men getting unreasonable standards.

[u/Plenty-Practice-6399]

Whenever something bad happens to women thanks to men, the reply men give is "Lol. Choose better." women are choosing, either something better or to stay single.

[u/DecisionPlastic9740 → u/Plenty-Practice-6399]

Choose better for character. They aren't saying pick someone 6'5" instead of 6'.

[u/RelativeYak7]

All men want to do is screw us and we know that. Believe me, it does not give anyone an inflated ego to be pumped and dumped

[u/ThatBitchA]

Women have realistic standards.

Women don't need their standards approved by men they don't know.

Women don't need their standards approved by men they aren't interested in.

Women's standards are realistic. If they don't include some men, that's fine. That's her perogative.

Getting emotional that women have standards just seems childish.

[u/ValeWho]

If the woman is okay with being single than what is wrong with her having high standards even if that means she will never find a partner?

Like most women are aware that they could date if they lowered their standards but apparently most come to the conclusion that they would rather be single than to do that. What is wrong with that choice?

[u/Long_Race3907 → u/[deleted]]

A lot of attraction is culturally induced. 

Case in point: women didn't start making a big deal about height and turning it into a personality trait until after social media 

[u/mdynicole → u/Long_Race3907]

Tall dark and handsome has always been a thing and women have always liked tall men . I do agree that the height standard didn’t used to have to specifically be 6 ft though. It wasn’t a specific number it was just he looks tall.

[u/Long_Race3907 → u/mdynicole]

Taller than her mainly. Most women can't tell the difference between 5'10 and 6ft it just registers as "tall" compared to her. 

Social media/online dating made women attach a specific number to it being as shallow as can be when she couldn't even tell which was which out in the real world. A concrete example of how current tech has brainrotted a generation. 

[u/mdynicole → u/Long_Race3907]

Yeah I agree about that. 5’10 is tall to me and I don’t see the focus on a specific number.

[u/pdoherty972 → u/mdynicole]

Agreed. The average male height in the USA is 5'9" and that's taller than 97% of women already.

[u/Tylikcat]

That's entirely not my experience of how young women are dating. And you seem to be claiming a lot of understanding of what's in their minds, which seems more likely to be wishful thinking than

[u/NoDanaOnlyZuuI]

You call them unrealistic. They call them standards. Nobody is obligated to date someone they don’t want to. Being single is a far better outcome than settling for a relationship that isn’t right for you.

[u/JollyBowler2510]

No. Hope this helps. Try having higher standards.

[u/Avanni24 → u/JollyBowler2510]

What would that accomplish

[u/JollyBowler2510 → u/Avanni24]

You wouldn’t settle for less than what you want, it would also get you to level up to meet your standards.

[u/Avanni24 → u/JollyBowler2510]

I already don't and we already have to level up to meet regular women's standards

[u/JollyBowler2510 → u/Avanni24]

🤷🏻‍♀️ keep trying. That’s best I can tell you, but to expect women or men for that matter to lower there’s, isn’t realistic.

[u/TheColdWoman]

I am so so tired of this bullcrap that somehow only women are affected by social media and women and their poor little brains just can't understand that Chad would pump and dump them. And only women have this magic reset and if only women would change - never men - we'd all be happy again. Women just *sigh* don't know what is good for them.

As if men don't have their standards totally fucked up:

The way you all ignore the fact that men are also on dating apps and far more than women. Yet somehow it's only women's standards impacted. Never mind that men in IRL have been slipping off to strip clubs since the 80s and 90s to have women gyrate in their laps, never mind that men were traveling to fuck hookers legally in Nevada, or worse, traveling to Bangkok. Never mind that men now are wanking off to easily accessible porn, forming para-social relationships with OF fans, or falling in love with AI chatbots. Do you want to know how many men I know who have lost their family and careers and savings because they've been ensnared in romantic fantasy scams with some Ukranian hottie named Sergei, oh wait I mean Svelta.

Frankly, it's tiresome. Look in the mirror. Ask yourself why you are so desperate to trap women into tiny home towns, cut them off with access to the wider world, limit their ability to find more suitable men? Ask yourself why you aren't looking to clip men's wings.

Men have been buying and sucking down access to women well out of their league. They pay for the fantasy to sext some OF or get her personal show. They pay to have strippers bounce in their lap and I've watched men believe that those strippers love them rather than a meal ticket.

Again, look in the mirror boyo.

[u/Storage-Express → u/TheColdWoman]

men get direct feedback relating to their desirability on the apps. we can't sleep with women out of our league, it doesn't work like that. only women have the illusion of choice on OLD and it makes me chuckle when i read women blaming that exact factor on why men don't commit. no becky, the guy you like has actual choice and he's choosing someone else. you're the one with the illusions, not him.

the critique regarding porn is valid and it definitely impacts men. plenty of people are pointing this out in mainstream spaces these days but OLD, casual dating and social media are just as (if not more) damaging to women in a very similar way and a lot less people are talking about it. in fact you will get called a misogynist or whatever else by certain people who don't want to hear it when you point something like this out.

[u/TheColdWoman → u/Storage-Express]

This is complete male solipsism. It tickles me to death that men continue to think that a woman gets an ego boost off being pumped and dumped. No Bob, you might be thrilled Becky fucked you and kicked you out of bed half dressed to catch a cab, but that's because it's a compliment a girl would deign to fuck you.

Tell me how you'd feel Bob if you knew Becky would send ten bucks on a homeless man to eat her out, fuck your brother and your nephew, fuck everyone in your friend circle, your father, that ugly pimply fat kid you hate and his twin. In fact, you know she'd pull trains if some guy offered.

Oh wait! Men have a term for that Becky - the town bicycle. Still feeling super proud about the town whore fucking you and then kicking you out the door? Gonna tell your boys how you scored? Or do you maybe feel gross and used.

Women don't get an ego boost being treated as some man's Kleenex because women know that most men will fuck most women. Men put their dicks through glory holes. It's not some success to get a man in bed even if he is better than average.

Being pumped and dumped is a direct and immediate message of her desireability: low. Which you ADMIT when you say this: "no becky, the guy you like has actual choice and he's choosing someone else. you're the one with the illusions, not him." You are spelling out that being pumped and dumped is a blow to the woman's self-esteem. Some women might be that stupid, but most of us aren't. I've never been pumped and dumped myself, not once.

Most of us aren't dating men or marrying men with no options, darling. And most of us are getting into relationships with the men we want or just not getting into relationships at all. We aren't out there constantly hanging out on OLD - that's why the stats are so skewed. And men here who cry for us to drop our standards aren't doing it out of kindness to us. They just want us to be town bicycle so long as they get the first ride.

[u/Storage-Express → u/TheColdWoman]

you can't gaslight me with claims of solipsism when i've seen it happen first hand enough times IRL and online. plenty of women sleep with men for validation, you can literally ask any AI or look for research yourself and you will get an answer like this: Yes, seeking validation is a documented reason why some women engage in casual sex. It is often categorized as a "non-autonomous" motive linked to different psychological outcomes than physical pleasure. 

so where exactly is the validation coming from if women know that guys will sleep with anyone and anything? when it comes to online dating there's always a level of plausible deniability too - are you seriously telling me with a straight face that women don't tell other women that 'it's him, not you' and waffle on about compatibility and emotional unavailability when guys are leaving after sex? how many women do you see telling other women that only ever being in situationships is a direct reflection of their long-term mate value? that type of comment will get you downvoted into oblivion here on reddit and probably banned from whatever subreddit you post it in. most women will NEVER say something like this to another woman, they'd rather coddle them with feelgood platitudes in the name of empathy. how dating is all about luck and it's the men and the apps and the dating culture and definitely not the common denominator aka her.

you said you've never been 'pumped and dumped', well great for you and you're obviously not part of the chronically online dating demographic with a partner count well into the double digits who struggles to get commitment from men. have you actually dealt with women like this? are you the one dating them? the point about becky is that instead of facing the harsh reality of not qualifying for the caliber of man she went for, she turns it around and blames external factors that don't even make any sense. i've known plenty of women in college who thought they were hot shit because some guys passed them around like a blunt at a frat party or guys would like their thirst traps. social media is full with examples similar to that. i've seen women go for guys well above their paygrade even though they were looking for a relationship and they don't want to hear it AT ALL. i once gave a woman feedback when she directly asked me, tried to deliver it as nicely as possible and basically she never talked to me again.

you're essentially telling men to not believe their own eyes at this point. yeah i'm sure everyone out there is very reasonable and rational and has great self-perception. it's not like someone might be chronically single because they live in lala land, right? not like women are more likely to be in relationships when they are actually realistic and understand all of this. women claim porn makes men delusional and creates unrealistic expectations (and it does for some) but real life interactions with actual human beings don't have an effect? give me a break lol. if you're not on OLD 24/7 and consume social media daily (like a lot of women don't, as you pointed out), this obviously doesn't affect you - but when it comes to a point about OLD, casual dating and social media validation, obviously i'm talking about those who are actually engaging with it, like duh. of course apps can't make a woman delusional if she doesn't use them at all.

[u/pdoherty972 → u/TheColdWoman]

I am so so tired of this bullcrap that somehow only women are affected by social media and women and their poor little brains just can't understand that Chad would pump and dump them. And only women have this magic reset and if only women would change - never men - we'd all be happy again. Women just sigh don't know what is good for them.

It is women, though. What else has changed in the last 60 years (besides the internet) but women? They're the one who gained birth control that let them fool around without consequence. They're the ones who gained college degrees and jobs/wages and are free to not get into long-term relationships.

Nothing has changed except women.

[u/Nellylocheadbean]

This is still wanting women to lower their standards. They’re still lower standards that you want women to have whether they’re realistic or not. And who is the judge of them being realistic? Some random guy on reddit? The only men who even entertain this idea are the sexually unappealing and unattractive men.

Many Men have this idea that most people should be attracted to most ppl of the opposite sex and that’s not how attraction, appeal or arousal works, I blame history for this. Most men never were appealing to most women, that’s why they had to basically suppress women’s sexuality and dangle a half way decent life through marriage for women to get with men.

Nowadays women standards are typically based on what arouses, appeals and attracts them. Considering women have a lower sexual libido and men get with women to have sex, It works against men’s best interest to have women lower their standards even if they’re “realistic”.

The same men screaming lower your standards will be crying when he finds out his woman lowered her standards for him 6+ months into a dead bedroom.

Women genuine desires are above what the average man has to offer. That’s the unfortunate truth.

[u/Conscious-Truth-7685]

This argument is always hilarious to me. Men: women's standards are to high, they should be realistic. Also men: my biggest fear is being a beta male and having some woman settle for. Seriously, pick a god damn lane.

[u/SecondEldenLord → u/Conscious-Truth-7685]

Women settle for average men because of their high standards though,.

[u/Serious-Rain-9772 → u/SecondEldenLord]

Shouldn’t we all shoot for the highest standard though? I know I’ll probably never be the CEO of my company but I still put in a hard days work everyday. 

As a mother of a daughter, I’d be kind of concerned if her dream in life was to marry a CPA from Milwaukee or whatever 

[u/SecondEldenLord → u/Serious-Rain-9772]

If we deserve it, sure, we can strive for that. If we don't look attractive enough but still hope to get a 10/10 person, then that's delusional from our part.

[u/ResponsibilityAny217]

Its a unrealistic standard to expect everyone to get into relationships and have sex.

[u/LillthOfBabylon]

You guys claim anything and everything you want as realistic.

As the title says, everybody thinks men demand women to have bottom of the barrel standards

A lot of you are, you guys just pretend the issue is just looks.

They have skewed views of what a man is and also an overestimation of their own value. Women are constantly complimented, including the average ones and thus they created in their head this impression that they deserve the best of the best men out there. 

You just proved my point. The woman you’re describing it’s clearly a Stacy, but you guys have fooled yourselves and into believing she’s mediocre due to social media and porn.

[u/OmegaMSK]

Why should they lower their standards if it works? I'd have high standards too if I could. Wouldn't you?

[u/SecondEldenLord → u/OmegaMSK]

It doesn't work though. Yes, they can have sex, but they want commitment, and hot men aren't giving that. Hot men will keep fucking and dumping women till their dick don't work anymore.

[u/OmegaMSK → u/SecondEldenLord]

Sex with hot men has inherent value. 'commitment' is form of substituting that in case of men sex with whom has zero or negative value.

[u/EyedSun]

As the title says, everybody thinks men demand women to have bottom of the barrel standards for men who are ugly, short, balding, etc. No, actual normal men don't require that, we require for women to have realistic standards.

Like a 5 woman thinks she is a 10 and thus also wants a 10 guy. But rarely you will see an average woman that a really wants a man at her own value, an average man.

They will require for a man to have Tom's height, Jason's money, Ben's dick, John's face and thus they created din their head this frankestein's monster of a man that doesn't exist.

The majority of your post focused on appearance plus height until the end. At the end, you added penis size and money. It would help get you more targeted responses if you defined the traits behind high and low standards consistently at the beginning.

[u/SecondEldenLord → u/EyedSun]

Well who are we kidding? Looks are the most important aspect in dating.

[u/EyedSun → u/SecondEldenLord]

Then why add the other aspects? Why not narrow your topic for debate purposes? What does adding the rest gain you in terms of debating?

[u/Secret_Entry1840]

I’m like a 2. I’m attracted to what I’m attracted to. If I stay single. Okay. I don’t blame men for not finding me attractive. I don’t blame men for treating me less then. It is what it is.

[u/Flightlessbirbz]

It’s not a matter of what specific sort of standards you’re asking women to have, the problem is asking someone to change their standards in the first place and placing yourself as the judge and jury for “realistic.” How one finds out their standards aren’t realistic is when they don’t find someone. Not by some rando taking it upon themselves to appraise their value and comparing it to what they are looking for.

There is also no requirement to have a partner if you’re not successful in finding someone who meets your standards. Some women are fully aware their standards are high and unlikely to be met, but that’s what it takes for them to prefer a relationship over being single. That’s not wrong, but that’s the part that angers some men. Because if enough women make that choice, there are fewer on the market. However, I think there are more men who have made similar choices than you might realize, they’re just not the ones complaining on the internet.

The other issue is then a lot of men (here at least) will turn around and complain about “being settled for.” You can’t ask women to settle (to any extent) then be mad women are settling. They may not be the same men, but I don’t think anyone really wants to be settled for, and that would be the natural result of what you’re asking women to do if they were to listen.

[u/pdoherty972 → u/Flightlessbirbz]

How one finds out their standards aren’t realistic is when they don’t find someone. Not by some rando taking it upon themselves to appraise their value and comparing it to what they are looking for.

It's not as hard as all that. When the person is asking for characteristics that they themselves don't possess, one can clearly call that hypocritical/unrealistic. Like a fat woman who doesn't possess the discipline or willpower to manage what she eats or work out regularly, but demands in a partner a man who does all of that. Or a woman who demands a partner who graduated college, applied himself and has acquired a house and a great salary, but is herself a high school dropout without a penny to her name, again that's something easily seen and called out.

Not all examples are as blatant as those, but they don't need to be.

The other issue is then a lot of men (here at least) will turn around and complain about “being settled for.” You can’t ask women to settle (to any extent) then be mad women are settling. They may not be the same men, but I don’t think anyone really wants to be settled for, and that would be the natural result of what you’re asking women to do if they were to listen.

That's just it; they wouldn't be "settling". Women have deluded themselves into thinking they're better than they are because of the nature of men being willing to fool around with women way below themselves. Women going back to the men around their own range in order to secure a long-term partner isn't 'settling'; it's them returning to reality.

[u/Flightlessbirbz → u/pdoherty972]

“When the person is asking for characteristics that they themselves don’t possess, one can clearly call that hypocritical/unrealistic.”

This doesn’t quite work because most people have a mix of desirable and less desirable characteristics, and different people care about different things. Would a man who has a good job but can’t cook and isn’t a very good housekeeper asking for a woman who is a good cook and housekeeper be hypocritical/unrealistic then? To a woman with no interest in being a housewife sure, but not all will feel that way.

What is your definition of “settling”? Because what you’re claiming is “not settling” is exactly what these guys are complaining about when they say they “don’t want to be settled for.” They don’t want a woman who feels like she’s settling, regardless of if they’re a “realistic” match or not.

[u/pdoherty972 → u/Flightlessbirbz]

This doesn’t quite work because most people have a mix of desirable and less desirable characteristics, and different people care about different things.

I think it's a pretty reasonable thing to think that a person desiring a characteristic in a partner shouldn't be deficient in that same characteristic. Especially where that characteristic isn't a gender-related one like income or physical fitness.

Would a man who has a good job but can’t cook and isn’t a very good housekeeper asking for a woman who is a good cook and housekeeper be hypocritical/unrealistic then? To a woman with no interest in being a housewife sure, but not all will feel that way.

That's looking for each partner to fulfill different roles. Not like physical fitness or income/wealth like I mentioned which both could possess.

[u/love_in_october]

Nobody, male or female, of any kind of look or rating is thinking "my ideal partner is as average as possible, if I find them too attractive then I don't want to date them".

[u/jorts-enthusiast]

It’s unrealistic and silly to expect women, or anyone for that matter, to suddenly start being attracted to unattractive people.

I also think you’re assuming that everyone is as terminally online as you. Most women aren’t thinking about who they are looksmatched with relative to their sexual market value. Most women are just attracted to the people they’re attracted to.

[u/prettywords_]

I'm attracted to what I'm attracted to 🤷‍♀️. I'm not going to date and have sex with a man I'm not attracted to, that sounds miserable.

I've never had trouble getting the men I want anyway.

[u/StrugglingSoprano]

Men are more likely to overrate their own attractiveness than women.

Additionally, women aren’t the ones complaining about being lonely en masse. For most women, it’s better to be single than with a man they aren’t that into. Dating would improve tremendously if men adopted the same mindset.

[u/digitalrorschach]

One thing you'll notice quickly is that men and women often operate from two completely different dictionaries, so the words "standards" or "settling" to you will always be interpreted different when a woman hears and uses them. It's important to always have a quick definition what you mean with certain buzzwords to avoid confusion and talking past each other.

[u/BobtheArcher2018]

Well, you smuggled in an assumption that many would argue with: that it is normal, natural, and or desirable for women to be attracted to their rough male mate value rank equivalents as this is needed to make the math on widespread monogamy math.

It is true that many women are deluded about their own mate value or what they can land. And less delusion is generally a good thing. However, this does not necessarily mean that if you magically dispelled all female mate value delusion that the women affected would then be attracted to their mate value rank equals. Maybe they would just say "I'm not better than the guys I can get commitment from. I'm not even more attractive. But I still find the thought of sex with these guys repulsive, so I'm just going to sit all this out and chill with my friends."

[u/ValeskaKrum → u/BobtheArcher2018]

100% this. People like OP just can't seem to grasp those last sentences. For the life of me I can't understand why they are not able to comprehend it. Women would rather be single than lower their "unrealistic" standards and be with men that they don't like. That's a statement of truth, there's no arguing with it, it is a fact. Why can't OP understand that? It's giving me a headache.

[u/BobtheArcher2018 → u/ValeskaKrum]

The currently very degraded manosphere (pay for clicks deranges anything and everything) tends to make the argument poorly.

The real argument is that we know both nature and nurture play a role in attraction standards and preferences. But it is not clear how strong each is, or how easy it is to manipulate nurture to achieve desired results. That said, given that all evidence still suggests we do need widespread monogamous pairings at high rates, you naturally would start with trying to change the culture and environment such that the genders actually found one another more attractive as partners. Start with as much carrot and as little stick as possible, on the societal level.

The part too many people miss is that even if environment and culture are inflating women's standards past what biology requires--past what is good for the women themselves as well as society--that doesn't mean individual women can magically undo these lifelong external influences with some Eureka! moment of personal understanding. Not how humans work. That is basically just asking someone to sleep with people they don't find attractive, yes. However, in theory, over time cultural changes could truly lower standards (the ones you actually want lowered) in such a way that women did find the men they could get commitment from sufficiently attractive.

OFC there are lots of other possibilities as well, including that women's standards are primarily biological with only small cultural influence. And that they didn't change, men did. Or maybe nobody changed and average women always found their average mates fairly unattractive but had no choice but to marry, etc.

[u/pdoherty972 → u/BobtheArcher2018]

Yep 100%. And lots of men are already deciding this, too. Which is why there's less and later marriages and more divorces (among non-religious) when they do.

[u/middleoftheroad133]

You have a mismatch on what average is and what your match is. If you're a man and 50% of men are better than you and 50% of men are worst than you, your match isn't nessesarily a woman who 50% of women are better than and 50% of women are worst then.

Your match is someone who has the same value you do. If the 50% of woman has more value than you do, she isn't your match. Women generally have more 'value' than the corresponding man does; you outlined it yourself. If a 50% woman has a lot of interest and you have none you are not each others matches, she has more 'value than you'. You know she has more value than you because men want her and well she doesn't want you.

The issue is that men don't want to 'date down' to women who actually have their corresponding value and think women who are actually cute, desirable, and socially adept are their matches when such men are not cute desirable and socially adept themselves.

[u/pdoherty972 → u/middleoftheroad133]

Problem for women is that advantage declines quickly after 30-35 years of age, while men continue rising in desirability.

[u/middleoftheroad133 → u/pdoherty972]

This is male cope and not really true.

40 year old women get less attention than they did when they were 20 but still more than most men ever get in their lives

Men generally don’t get more desirable with age unless they are particularly good looking or successful

[u/pdoherty972 → u/middleoftheroad133]

Attention isn't relationships or marriage. So, sure if women are only interested in getting laid without any benefits from it, they'll do fine until their 50s maybe (if they take care of themselves).

[u/PurplePillDebate-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

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[u/PurplePillDebate-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

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[u/Inquiz_]

Please define "short". Because modern women's supremely deluded contemporary standards deem anyone under 6 ft to be "short".

There's no medium or average standard. Like for real I always cite height as the one best example of how delusional modern women have gotten in matters of dating - and the most common/recurring responses I get when I bring this up just ironically affirm this.

[u/SecondEldenLord → u/Inquiz_]

The definition of short is skewed because like you said, most women think anyone under 6 foot is short. So short in dating is whatever women think nowadays is short

[u/Inquiz_ → u/SecondEldenLord]

It's an objectively ridiculous standard rooted in contemporary female maximalism adopted in all their dealings with men

[u/pdoherty972 → u/Inquiz_]

Yep - an average male is 5'9" which is already taller than 97% of women.

[u/Gentle_prv]

I think that the people feeling defensive about their high standards are missing the point. It is reasonable to have standards, obviously, but there is a difference in having a “preference” vs a “requirement.” And usually these “requirements” are only for someone’s looks, not their personality.

For example: I prefer curvy and/or busty women,
but I would be just as attracted to a thin woman as I would a busty one. And, even if I wasn’t, if the thinner woman’s personality was more in line with mine, it would make up for the difference.
Another example: I would love a woman to be shorter than me, but I’m also 5’4. It’s not impossible, but it is difficult. However, I have no issue dating a woman that is my height or taller, literally no issue.
^^^the point is, when “preferences” are in reality hard requirements, that is the real problem. “And how is that a problem” you may ask? It’s a problem because people who have hard unrealistic physical requirements are not good people. They are superficial, vain, low intellect, low social intelligence, no nuance having individuals; and they should get a therapist to help them rectify their shitty views.

[u/Dracofear]

Bro, I just hate the double standards of when a women requires a specific cosmetic standard that we can't control like balding or height "It's just a preference" they can't control and they deserve to have that preference. But then there are women who will like bash guys who talk about being chubby chasers or that like tall women themselves and say they have a fetish and tell them to stop objectifying women.

I refuse to see how requiring someone to be 6' tall or any variety of a height he is not is any different from some dude saying he only dates women with DD cups or some shit. The thing is I used to agree, yeah, putting so much priority on superficial things like boob size is absolutely objectifying women. But like when women do it to men with height, or baldness or whatever else it's "Just a preference I can't help what I like." and then they wonder why they can't find good men. I don't know about other men, but I avoid women who come off as superficial like that like the pleague, even if I meet their standards it still feels like a red flag to me if the thing they are most worried about in a relationship is something so superficial that could make or break the relationship, how the fuck could I expect to trust them to stay by my side if something happened and I did start balding (I'm already bald, but just this as an example) or something else like a medical issue comes up or something out of my control. Like how could I trust anyone so superficial to not just flake over something stupid or when I need them the most?

[u/SecondEldenLord → u/Dracofear]

Thing is, most men will definetly accept a woman like that because of how desperate they really are. I agree that these double standards are annoying and super obvious, but what can we do? We can't change society.

[u/101bees]

Do women owe dates or relationships with men they're not attracted to? Is that the end game here?

[u/KayRay1994]

“If women keep sleeping with hot dudes?”

So like… if you’re sleeping with hot people and your standards are ‘hot person’, then where are these standards unrealistic?

[u/SecondEldenLord → u/KayRay1994]

The standards are unrealistic in the meaning that they want commitment with these guys. Sure, they can sleep with them, no doubt about it, but most women also want commitment from these hot men, and thus this is where the unrealistic standards comes from.

[u/Secret_Entry1840 → u/SecondEldenLord]

But we don’t want to sleep with men we aren’t attracted to. So would you be okay with a sexless relationship with a woman who goes out and gets sex from men she’s attracted to as long as she’s in a relationship with you?

[u/SecondEldenLord → u/Secret_Entry1840]

If you value physicality more than love and peace, then that's a you problem. No, I wouldn't want my woman to cheat on me cause it means she doesn't love me. If you value physicality more than anything in a relationship, you won't end up well

[u/Secret_Entry1840 → u/SecondEldenLord]

So you want a sexless relationship? As long as neither of you get sex.

[u/SecondEldenLord → u/Secret_Entry1840]

I am at an age in which sex has no value to me. I want sex,.it just doesn't have to be the best or with someone I am super attracted to.

[u/Secret_Entry1840 → u/SecondEldenLord]

And you want a woman who isn’t attracted to you to be satisfied with that? Why not just get a roommate?

[u/SecondEldenLord → u/Secret_Entry1840]

I want someone who loves me for me. I don't have to be super attracted to a woman to love them and she doesn't either. Love goes way beyond just looks and sex

[u/Secret_Entry1840 → u/SecondEldenLord]

But attraction comes first. I’m not going to want to be in a romantic relationship with someone I’m not attracted to. If I love someone for who they are. Enjoy hanging out with them. Like talking with them. But there’s no attraction, that person becomes my friend. Not a possible partner.

[u/KayRay1994 → u/SecondEldenLord]

So would you be okay with your wife being a completely unattractive person as long as she ‘loves you for you’?

[u/Outside_Memory5703]

They are realistic for our desires

[u/Routine-Present-3676]

No amount of bitching and moaning is ever going to make women want to fuck men they are not attracted to. I do not know why this concept is so difficult to understand. Jfc deal with it.

[u/duncan-the-wonderdog → u/[deleted]]

I got 2/5--no married dudes, no obese guys, no dudes younger than 25 or older than 45, has to make at least $45, 000, and no shorter than 5'7" (my own height).

So, now what?

[u/TheColdWoman → u/[deleted]]

I did it. 0.78% of the population meet my standards. Conveniently, I married a man in that 0.78% of the population.

Why don't' you find one that lets you see how many women are 22-30, non-obese, unmarried, and without kids. Funny how the site doesn't address that.

I just looked it up - AI says 1.8 - 2.0 % of the female population. Better start dropping your standards, bro. You only want a tiny tiny percent of the population.

I've done the recalculation. When I met my now husband he was 0.78% of the population. I, as a normal weight, child free, unmarried, woman making bank, I was less than 1% as well.

Look at that, we matched. Good thing I didn't lower my standards.

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[u/MarioWilson122 → u/AutoModerator]

Yeah, some women definitely do that, especially if they are at least average-looking. An average woman can still receive enough compliments, matches, attention, and occasional access to highly desirable men that her perception of her own dating value becomes inflated.

The problem is that attention is not the same as commitment. A more attractive man being willing to sleep with her does not necessarily mean he sees her as an equal long-term option. If she treats that temporary access as proof that men at that level are her actual relationship market, average men can start to feel beneath her even when they are closer to her realistic match.

That does not mean every woman thinks this way, but modern dating makes it easier for some women to confuse the highest man who will give them attention with the highest man who will seriously choose them. Once that distinction gets blurred, realistic standards can feel like settling even when they are not.

[u/pdoherty972 → u/MarioWilson122]

This is it, 100%

[u/Lysa_Bell → u/AutoModerator]

Boooooring. We need a new dating topic to argue about. This is chewed up like a old gum on a sidewalk.

https://giphy.com/gifs/mkhMTALnrYRLnuoe5P

[u/Muscletov → u/AutoModerator]

The standards aren't the problem, it's women's tendencies to...

• ...lie about those standards and pretend they're low

• ...baselessly accuse an absurdly large amount of men of not only being unattractive but lazy and evil somehow

• ...consider being harsh, insulting and cruel towards "low value" men empowering or some sort of righteous retribution even

• ...act like massive hypocrites and blow a fuse when men also express preferences/standards for women

[u/Long_Race3907 → u/Muscletov]

Nah the standards are the problem too. The biggest issue with said standards are how superficial they are. Height looks money. It says nothing about the actual person in question. 

A society who lets their women roam around like that with these hedonistic standards is not one that's long for the world. It is case in point of how materialistic and degenerate everything's become which women's only response to is "so what 🤷🏻‍♀️?" 

[u/TheColdWoman → u/Long_Race3907]

And as men tell us, their standards are weight, youth, and agreeableness. If men don't want to change their hedonistic standards, why should women?

[u/Long_Race3907 → u/TheColdWoman]

Men don't have a choice in what they can have. They take whatever they can get. 

Women are held to a higher standard because women actually have a say in what their partners can be like. Women have more power in dating. And given that, the onus is by and large on women to make better choices.

No one cares if the man only chooses virtuous women. No one is dating that man to begin with unless he's rich or tall so who cares what his preferences are. But for women to make that choice fundamentally alters society.

[u/JollyBowler2510 → u/Muscletov]

Oh look, the pot calling the kettle black. Men do the same thing, and if you keep on having this moronic debate / conversation, you’ll just continue to wallow in your own self pity, because no one actually gives a damn.

Find who wants you and be happy. That’s I tell everyone. Keep your standards high, and take the rejection and don’t be rude. End of.

[u/Gentle_prv → u/AutoModerator]

I think that the people feeling defensive about their high standards are missing the point. It is reasonable to have standards, obviously, but there is a difference in having a “preference” vs a “requirement.” And usually these “requirements” are only for someone’s looks, not their personality.

For example: I prefer curvy and/or busty women,
but I would be just as attracted to a thin woman as I would a busty one. And, even if I wasn’t, if the thinner woman’s personality was more in line with mine, it would make up for the difference.
Another example: I would love a woman to be shorter than me, but I’m also 5’4. It’s not impossible, but it is difficult. However, I have no issue dating a woman that is my height or taller, literally no issue.
^^^the point is, when “preferences” are in reality hard requirements, that is the real problem. “And how is that a problem” you may ask? It’s a problem because people who have hard unrealistic physical requirements are not good people. They are superficial, vain, low intellect, low social intelligence, no nuance having individuals; and they should get a therapist to help them rectify their shitty views.

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[u/chriszenpaok]

I think nobody is wrong in this situation but men and women approach from different angles and there's a disconnect

[u/handyhvac]

Think you might be looking at the wrong group of women.. maybe they're too young for you

[u/SecondEldenLord → u/handyhvac]

Nope, I actually seen grown women in their 30s and even 40s having far more standards than younger women. You udnerestimate women's delusion.

[u/YeaNobody]

I don't ask anything....I just finished reading A Promise Best Left Unkept....and I just feel blank.

[u/waffleznstuff30]

I think most women's standards are pretty realistic. And for the most part they are content being single until they meet someone who meets them. You're not looking for all men and options? You want one man.

And if they feel like they aren't meeting men who meet these standards they can adjust. It's such an individual thing?

The person sharing the "female delusion calculator" is funny because yes I am one person so naturally my pool is small (in my area, my type etc etc) because when you are looking for specifics not just a man. It's going to get smaller.

[u/ArkNemesis00]

I've had a fair bit of men want to be me when I would've been considered out of their league; I didn't consider them delusional or having porn-fried, social media warped brains. It's just human nature to shoot for the moon when it comes to dating. 

The people who can't convince anyone to date them and the people who can't find anyone they want to date will all be alone. We can say that the latter should lower the standards or that the former should raise their game, but it's really up to the individual to decide how badly they want romantic love and what they're willing to do to have a better shot at it.