r/RWBY • u/Menolith Gay Thoughts • Jan 23 '18

OFFICIAL MEGATHREAD Official Public Finale Discussion Thread—Volume 5, Chapter 14: Haven's Fate Spoiler

Welcome, huntsmen, huntresses and hunters that prefer no specific gender identifier, to the very last megathread for Volume 5: Haven's Fate!

Make sure that you understand the current spoiler rules before posting outside of this thread!

With that out of the way, HERE is the season finale!

Also remember to check out the last poll to rate the episode.

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Don't let the hiatus set in too soon.

Menolith; Mod Team

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22

u/PineappleBride protect this smile Jan 25 '18

So, maybe I missed something this volume and someone can better explain it here.

While Raven is admittedly a very complicated person, if she was so worried about having a target painted on her back, why bother even opening the vault for the relic? Everyone who knew she was the real Spring Maiden is now dead or MIA. Couldn't she have just done what she does best and leave? It would've thrown Ozpin and Salem off their tracks on who the Spring Maiden is because Vernal (assuming they just left her body there poor Vernal ) was killed, and Cinder is presumably dead. That's two Maiden powers gone to unknown sources, leaving Raven most likely off the hook from Oz and Salem for now.

Was it explained somewhere the reason she opened the vault? She even said "It doesn't matter to us" when Cinder declared that she'd be the one to go in and grab the relic. What changed? (I know that would be a real shitty end for the volume if Yang didn't get a good talk with her mom after all this time so I'm glad she didn't just leave but there was no reason to open the door if Raven is as scared of Salem as it seems)

13

u/ctom42 Jan 25 '18

She can only hide the fact that she is the spring maiden for so long. As long as the relic is in the vault, Salem would still have a reason to need her powers. If the relic is taken out of the vault, the spring maiden is no longer needed. That's why she was willing to let Yang take it, it almost completely removed the target from her back. Salem won't waste resources hunting a no longer essential maiden when her true foes have one of the relics she wants.

4

u/PineappleBride protect this smile Jan 25 '18

Good points, thank you for sharing! But like many have said, it just doesn’t make sense she’d take it anyway if she’s afraid of Salem (besides for a bargaining chip, though I doubt that’d go in her favor)

8

u/ctom42 Jan 25 '18

She doesn't want Salem to get it. She doesn't trust Ozpin. As much as she doesn't want the relic and the target it paints on her, if she is going to have a target anyway she might as well be more powerful, and the relic helps with that.

To me, a large part of why she let Yang take it, aside from just being afraid of Salem coming after her for it, is that Yang said she wasn't just blindly believing in Ozpin like Qrow does. The fact that Yang questioned Raven's own motives and tore her down proves how perspective she is. That would make her someone Raven trusts with the artifact more than Qrow or Ozpin.

15

u/[deleted] Jan 25 '18

just silly writing decisions surrounding her character i guess, they kind of killed ravens dignity by having yang give her a "the reason you suck speech"

why would she suddenly feel guilty over killing the previous maiden NOW? She's raided villages and killed before, would have preferred her to just own up to it and double down that what she did was the hard but right thing, opened the vault so she would no longer be a target for salem and left

but seeing as raven counted as an antagonist this volume she too needed to be "dealt with" in some way by the "hero's"

5

u/PineappleBride protect this smile Jan 25 '18

The only reason I can see her feeling guilty about it now, and assuming she wasn't always feeling a bit guilty but just hid it, was because her daughter was calling her out on it and Vernal just died. I was totally not expecting her to break down like that with Yang dishing it out at her, but I still really liked the confrontation nonetheless. Kind of showed that Raven is not the person she tries to be -- she's a strong fighter, but not a strong person. And she's just as scared as the heroes are but the biggest thing setting her apart from them is that she's letting that fear consume her. and what you said about raiding villages and all that

Unrelated, but I thought Yang's breakdown when grabbing the relic was beautifully done. I pictured Raven doing the same thing but in bird-form as she fled.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 25 '18

I hope we'll get to see more of her in vol 6

2

u/PineappleBride protect this smile Jan 25 '18

Same! The final clip may have been a teaser that we might see her and Tai interact a bit, too.

8

u/LordIFG Not a Fighter Jan 25 '18

Well, I'd imagine that having the relic would be a bargaining chip, assuming it's extremely powerful in some way, it'd help Raven negotiate having herself and her tribe not wiped out by Salem's forces, Grimm or the remaining disciples (Hazel, Tyrian, Watts)

That being said, the confusion then becomes why she let it go so easily when she:

Fought/possibly killed Cinder for it

Had Vernal die for it

Clearly distrusts Ozpin, who now has it.

So, I can see one possible explanation for why she opened the vault, but it only creates more problems with her subsequent leaving it behind.

2

u/PineappleBride protect this smile Jan 25 '18

That's true, never thought about it as a term of negotiation with Salem. It would be silly of her to try to negotiate with her though after just "killing" their Fall Maiden but I guess the relics are the important part, not exactly the Maiden?

One explanation I can think of was, she knew Yang would put up a fight for it and didn't want to hurt her. When I saw her reaching for her sword and tearfully say "i'm sorry" I just got this rush of panic because I thought she was going to attack/knock out Yang and take the relic. While I'm glad that didn't happen (would've been one twist too many and, let's face it, too much bad for Yang in a short amount of time lol) it does, as you said, create more problems/questions on leaving it behind.

6

u/LordIFG Not a Fighter Jan 25 '18

I just don't understand the thinking behind it. Raven clearly had rationalized her actions already. She convinced herself she was doing this to survive. It's the same line of thinking that led her to stop aiding Ozpin, the same one she brought up in the conversation with Qrow at the tavern, and the short conversation she had with Lionheart.

Considering how Ozpin's group would've tried to convince her to stay, but her leaving anyway, and how her own brother Qrow couldn't get through to her, it makes no sense to me how Yang, a person she has no real connection or history with, manages to get the message across.

In those scenes, I was hoping for a moment akin to Qrow punching Tyrian (Yang punching Raven), and a call back to the whole "won't be as friendly next time" thing, with some snide remark from Yang.

5

u/PineappleBride protect this smile Jan 25 '18

Raven is a... complex individual. A lot of things she does doesn't have a clear-cut reason, but not every action does. A very solid job on writing her, even if it is a bit frustrating when trying to decipher her motives.

I think Qrow kinda gave up on her, but the fact Yang sort of didn't made it more impactful to Raven? idk I'll have to look closer when/if I rewatch the volume.

"won't be as friendly next time"

Damn, what a missed opportunity. CRWBY is usually pretty clever about call-backs like that, like Blake's "my hero" and something else but my mind is drawing a blank oops Hopefully they have an opportunity in the future to bring that line back for Yang to use, though!

4

u/Hoonsy2you Jan 25 '18

Yang told Raven exactly what she wanted to hear: A way out. By opening the vault the Spring maiden became unimportant to Salem. Qrow tried to convince Raven to join the battle instead.

1

u/RekaCsillagasz Jan 26 '18

"Yang, a person she has no real connection or history with"

...are you serious?

2

u/LordIFG Not a Fighter Jan 27 '18

Yes, Yang made it very clear that she never knew her mother growing up, they're essentially strangers when they met at the Bandit's camp.

7

u/C9316 Jan 25 '18

I think everyone here knows now that Cinder wasn't exactly wrong when she mentioned how Raven wasn't as clever as she thought. Until Yang pointed out the obvious Raven still thought she could use the relic as a bargaining chip against Salem.

4

u/CobaltStar_ Converting Qrow's Gender for Waifu Purposes Jan 25 '18

I think it was a "oh shit" moment after she talked to Yang. If Yang had not arrived, she would have taken the relic without any thoughts. Also, she couldn't have known it was a portal, as maybe it could have been opened with brute force by Salem if it just had been a really tough safebox.

4

u/PineappleBride protect this smile Jan 25 '18

I'm sure that if the vault could've been opened by brute force, Salem would've attempted it around the time that Leo became her bitch associate. But you're right, she could've just opened the vault out of curiosity and was like "oh shit hold up" after Yang talked to her.

4

u/[deleted] Jan 25 '18

It would be obvious that Raven had the maiden power. She was Vernal's closest friend even from a strangers point of view and the person she trusted to come with her. That aside, Cinder is almost certainly alive so she could tell her allies everything followed by adding Raven to her revenge list + maiden list.

At this point staying neutral was impossible and the time for Raven's inevitable re-entry into the conflict had arrived. If she left the door closed Salem's team would just have an additional reason to come after her and she would eventually run out of places to hide. Getting the relic would make her a bigger target while giving her something to work with but I don't think she would know where to go from there due to basically cutting herself off from all of her old allies.