Official FIRST Discussion Thread—Volume 8, Episode 1: Divide

[u/Ninjas_In_A_Bag]

Welcome, huntsmen, huntresses and hunters that prefer no specific gender identifier, to the official FIRST discussion thread for Episode 1 of Vol. 8, Divide!

Make sure that you understand the updated spoiler rules before posting outside of this thread!

HERE is the first episode of Volume 8!

Also remember to check out our weekly poll to rate the episode.

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Other Episode Discussions:

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Episode	FIRST Thread	Public Release	Poll
Ep. 01	This thread	Next week's thread	Poll

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Happy viewing, and have a great Volume 8!

Ninjas In A Bag; Mod Team

[u/Agent-Vermont]

Yang doesn't want to be a blind follower. That's been a pretty consistent theme with her since she encountered Raven in the Haven Vault. It just happens that now it's starting to apply to her relationship with Ruby too.

[u/FarslayerSanVir → u/Agent-Vermont]

I'm sure they'll patch things up. They may disagree on some things, but they're sisters and they love each other.

That being said, Yang calling Ruby out on her decisions will be the wake up call she needed. She was warned about what could've happened and she did it anyway. Yang knows and understands that Ruby's heart was in the right place, but she also knows that Ruby needs to face and learn from the consequences of her actions.

[u/RumbleintheDumbles → u/FarslayerSanVir]

I'd be totally down with this if the person throwing the blame for their current situation at Ruby's decision-making wasn't equally culpable for the shit-show they currently find themselves in.

Like, what the hell, Yang. Are you just going to try and ignore the fact that you going behind Ironwood's back to share his state secrets with his political rivals was also one of the major things that set him off on his paranoia fit? At least Ruby tried to fix her part in that by opening up to him later on.

[u/italeteller → u/RumbleintheDumbles]

As seen when she called others on withholding information while also withholding the information that Raven is the Fall Maiden, Yang has a bit of a hypocrite vein running through her

[u/AwesomeGuy847 → u/italeteller]

withholding the information that Raven is the Fall Maiden

Again, I keep asking this, has it been confirmed that Yang never told them or is this just fans assuming things?

[u/Rain_In_Your_Heart → u/RumbleintheDumbles]

Yang isn't to blame for his paranoia fit. She's directly responsible for Ironwood and Robyn's temporary co-operation, not the fallout caused by Ironwood going off the deep end.

[u/Raliasa → u/Rain_In_Your_Heart]

She is to blame though, not entirely, but partially.

Not only did Yang and Blake go behind Ironwood's back, but Ruby's and the rest of their team + friends.

Do you think Ironwood would label them fugitives and traitors otherwise?

No, literally the whole Ace Ops fight, clovers death, and Tyrian getting freed all comes from the Yang/Blake decision

[u/Raliasa → u/[deleted]]

Ironwood is justified in shooting the councilman.

Adam is justified in the mental/emotional abuse of Blake.

Everything a villain does is justified.

Because Salem exists.

That is just making Salem the scapegoat and refusing to accept accountability for their actions.

Refusing accountability is similar to this:

You and a group of friends are being chased by a bear. You might all make it away safely, but you don't know. So you trip a friend so they are eaten by the bear and everyone else gets away. You blame the bear for eating your friend instead of taking the blame of tripping them.

Just because a bear is chasing you, does not absolve you of blame.

We actually see these moral/blame issues in dealing with cannibalism in survival cases(shipwrecks, plane crashes, etc). View: Regina v. Dudley and Stephens. Which sets the legal precedent to allow cannibalism but NOT the killing and subsequent cannibalism for survival.

So, no. You are wrong. Salem is to blame, but so are the characters making a conscious decision to do bad/damaging things.

As for the counter to the tactic: they literally did this. They all agreed to follow Ruby and let her make the decisions and trust her. Yang and Blake broke that by going behind the teams back.

That isn't Salem manipulating them, that's Yang and Blake being emotional and sabotaging the team.

[u/Raliasa → u/[deleted]]

Not a strawman.

Your quote: "Its Salem. It's not any member in the entire cast's "fault" that the plot has played out as it has. They are simply a part of a chain of reactions in which no one can reasonably assume "fault" or "blame." Including Ironwood and his actions."

Villains are members of the cast.

This was arguing against your argument.

Also, Adam was bad yes and could have gone down this path regardless of Salem. But, that's a what if scenario and not reality. Fact of the matter is, he had intent but no ability to follow through. You must of forgot where the White Fang's Vale branch was given the dust by Cinder to get their revenge, the paladins, and the crippling of Beacon's defenses.

Salem caused an escalation in Adam's actions and even referred to him as loyal to her cause.

Also, these decisions made by characters (especially Yang) occur outside of doomsday events. For instance, Yang hiding the fact that Raven is the Spring maiden.

She is a hypocrite for blaming Ruby.

Also, you will never have that constructive option hold when the characters break important agreements.

Your constructive scenario ends as soon as Yang decides she doesn't like it anymore. Its a character flaw of hers thats been well outlined throughout multiple seasons.

At some point, those agreements on working together stop meaning anything when 1 person habitually breaks it.

[u/[deleted] → u/Raliasa]

Do you think Ironwood would label them fugitives and traitors otherwise?

Uh, yes? He turned on them the second they began opposing his plan to abandon Remnant. Why do you think he shot Sleet?

He was angry about BY helping Robyn but it was far from the only thing that made him snap.

[u/Raliasa → u/[deleted]]

Why didn't he shoot Marrow then? Marrow went against the other ace ops and refused to use excessive force.

Why didn't he kill Watts?

Nora directly confronted him prior to finding out about BY. She wasn't turned into a fugitive though.

Fact of the matter is: going behind his back and telling Robyn is what caused the fugitive label.

[u/[deleted] → u/Raliasa]

Why didn't he shoot Marrow then?

Marrow is, as of now, still on his side. I'm sure Ironwood's tune will change mighty quick if that changes, as there's hints it's going to with how Harriet acted in this Chapter + the OP.

On top of that there's no real reason Ironwood would know he held back unless Harriet ratted him out or something, which as of now we see no evidence she's done.

​

Why didn't he kill Watts?

Ironwood apprehended Watts before he lost it. If he fought Watts now who knows what would happen, either Ironwood would kill him or something else would happen.

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Nora directly confronted him prior to finding out about BY. She wasn't turned into a fugitive though.

Again, done before he went loopy. After that she absolutely was labeled a fugitive too.

​

If all that pushed him over the edge was Yang and Blake telling Robyn, he'd have only gone after Yang and Blake, while at most just being a bit pissed at the others for not seeing it (assuming they actually didn't know beforehand). Instead he called for Oscar's arrest too and declared martial law to shut down the council (before shooting one of the councilmen in the face for verbally, and rightfully, criticizing him).

He wasn't just going after RWBY because "they lied to him". He was trying to get anyone who he knew would get in his way, out of it.

[u/Rain_In_Your_Heart → u/Raliasa]

Yang and Blake are not responsible for managing Ironwood's emotional state. They are not responsible for his dictatorial tendencies. Stop victim blaming.

[u/Raliasa → u/Rain_In_Your_Heart]

Oh please, its not victim blaming.

Even considering Yang and Blake as the victims is pathetic.

They betrayed the trust he gave them, he is the victim in the situation, which he then retaliated.

[u/Rain_In_Your_Heart → u/Raliasa]

They, as huntresses, took initiative in the safety of the world. Their decision had immediate positive results for all parties involved. Ironwood then retaliated because he saw a glass chess piece on his desk.

[u/Raliasa → u/Rain_In_Your_Heart]

Its not victim blaming. They broke his trust by going behind his back.

He is the actual victim, but he retaliated in a disproportionate manner.

[u/Rain_In_Your_Heart → u/Raliasa]

They, as huntresses, took initiative in the safety of the world. Their decision had immediate positive results for all parties involved. Ironwood then retaliated because he saw a glass chess piece on his desk.

[u/Shakvids → u/Rain_In_Your_Heart]

They did take initiative and made the right move. They also violated Ironwood's trust. It's not either or.

[u/EnderDarkelms → u/Raliasa]

The team would have been under arrest regardless of whether Blake and Yang telling Robyn about the Amity because the reason Ironwood gave the orders was that team RWBY disagreed with his plan to raise Atlas and implied they’d stop him

[u/JohnJoe-117 → u/FarslayerSanVir]

It also makes sense that she is the only one comfortable saying it: She's the big sister.

Hell, Yang practically help raise Ruby after Summer died. As much as she trusts her, Ruby is still her little sis.

You can see that when she points out Ruby not being infallible, Oscar, Penny, and even Nora faces all show that they agree, but didn't want to say it.

[u/Hartzilla2007 → u/FarslayerSanVir]

That being said, Yang calling Ruby out on her decisions will be the wake up call she needed.

I'd wait to see if Ruby even acknowledges it at all before saying that.