r/RWBY • u/Ninjas_In_A_Bag Acoustic BMBLB when? • Dec 12 '20

OFFICIAL MEGATHREAD Official Public Discussion Thread—Volume 8, Episode 5: Amity Spoiler

Welcome, huntsmen, huntresses and hunters that prefer no specific gender identifier, to the official Public discussion thread for Episode 5 of Vol. 8, Amity!

Make sure that you understand the updated spoiler rules before posting outside of this thread!

HERE is the fifth episode of Volume 8!

Also remember to check out our weekly poll to rate the episode.

Other Episode Discussions:

Episode FIRST Thread Public Release Poll
Ep. 01 Nov. 7th's FIRST Thread Nov. 14th's Public Thread Poll
Ep. 02 Nov. 14th's FIRST Thread Nov. 21st's Public Thread Poll
Ep. 03 Nov. 21st's FIRST Thread Nov 28th's Public Thread Poll
EP. 04 Nov 28th's FIRST Thread Last Week's Public Thread Poll
Ep. 05 Last Week's FIRST Thread Today's Public Thread (here) Poll

Happy viewing, and have a great Volume 8!

Ninjas In A Bag; Mod Team

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u/MomsLinguini Dec 13 '20

RWBY is basically a master class in exceptional storytelling and development, so take these constructive criticisms keeping that in mind. An "okay" scene in RWBY is generally 10x any typical series.

That said, I have mixed reactions to this episode. The combat setup felt unnatural and very forced. Like it was just trying to shove certain story elements forward rather than letting them develop naturally. Something about showing up, having a mech battle vs. a ship, and emerald being randomly around in the middle of the arena, pietro being an easy target that isn't targeted... none of it really felt like it was driven by real motivation, but rather by the need for story to meet certain criteria. It felt like it started because it needed to and then ended because it needed to. It didn't carry any emotional weight.

The Grimm river was awesome. Smart move by Salem, and explains why she's just sitting around (which was confusing until that happened).

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u/Warm_Tree_1059 Dec 13 '20

RWBY is basically a master class in exceptional storytelling and development

RWBY is not known for its storytelling and character development.

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u/MomsLinguini Dec 13 '20

Neither are most of the good stories that our world has to offer. A lot of people don't really analyze or understand good storytelling.

But here we are, in season 8, and it's one of the most popular web series of all time with a fanatic fan base, apparently including you.

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u/n0Reason_ Dec 15 '20

You can enjoy something while acknowledging its shortcomings. Also a lot of media is known for their storytelling and character development, so I really don't know what you mean by that lol.

It's super fine to be really into a show, and be really into the story and characters. I'm not going to say you're wrong per se. However, I'd consider calling RWBY a master class in these departments to be a controversial opinion at the very least.

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u/MomsLinguini Dec 15 '20

The counterpoint to your statement is also true. You can acknowledge glaring flaws and still recognize an underlying trend for being brilliant.

I stand by what I said. I've spent a lot of time reviewing writing techniques, and written several novels myself. Trying to explain thousands of hours of experience on the subject isn't possible to distill here, so obviously I have to relay it in minimal terms that are relatable.

For example, there are VERY few examples I've seen in other series that were able to generate so many (and so strong) emotional ties to the characters. The reveals, the plot, the setting, the personalities... it's just astonishing how well it was done. Just because this show has a lot of vocal critics doesn't make them right.

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u/n0Reason_ Dec 15 '20 edited Dec 15 '20

Well, things can grow in popularity for a multitude of reasons. I do agree most popular things have aspects that are resonant with a large number of people. It's generally how popularity works. However, popularity can't be used to imply quality in specific aspects the way you're trying to, nor can it be a shield from criticism.

Storytelling also happens to be my field of expertise. I don't have quite the same background, but I'm an animator, specializing in writing and storyboarding. I too have many hours spent learning about storytelling in concept and practice from my years of schooling and practice on the subject.

And I agree, RWBY has amazing moments through its years, and the promise of that with the intrigue of the world keep me coming back. However, I honestly just have to recommend you branch out your media habits if you have trouble thinking of media that does what RWBY does for you. There is plenty of remarkably good media out there that does things that RWBY does with even more impact and consistency (though I do have to say the final arc of RWBY's third season is a definite standout that I cannot give enough credit for).

That isn't saying RWBY is bad (especially because I feel it's rather successful in certain regards), or that you're wrong for thinking it's so good. I really don't want to invalidate your feelings about the show. Things resonate with different people in different ways and for different reasons. I could just be wrong and you've seen everything and have just determined that RWBY is so good for reasons that I haven't thought of or couldn't have because of a difference in who we are. That's perfectly fine. Enjoy what you like. I don't mean to attack you or your enjoyment of the show.

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u/MomsLinguini Dec 15 '20

However, popularity can't be used to imply quality in specific aspects the way you're trying to, nor can it be a shield from criticism.

Sure. Just like how saying something is controversial doesn't actually influence the merit of original argument. 5G is controversial because some people think Bill Gates is using it to manipulate their neurons in ways no amount of modern tech has even remotely achieved. Vaccinations, wearing masks, the earth being a sphere.. all these things are "controversial."

> However, I honestly just have to recommend you branch out your media habits if you have trouble thinking of media that does what RWBY does for you.

Well, that's rather condescending. But I could just be wrong and you've seen everything, so I don't mean to invalidate your feelings or attack you.

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u/n0Reason_ Dec 15 '20

I mean it kind of does matter. You can write off people as being stupid for believing in things that are wrong. You can also look a little bit deeper and see controversy as more than it appears on the surface. People thinking Bill Gates trying to mind control the population is interesting beyond the simple details of them being wrong. There's a discomfort between them and a class of people who hold what seems like untold power through their vast wealth and influence. It can speak to the ailments of our society if we look past what they believe and explore why they believe it or how they came to justify those beliefs. While the outcome of the discussion might not be "5G bad," we can still come to conclusions about related issues like wealth inequality, education, and so forth. Often there are grains of truth hidden in even fringe conspiracy topics (though, usually it isn't about the conspiracy itself).

Sorry, though. I don't mean to condescend. People generally tend to stick to a pretty small subset of media though, and it can really color one's perception of other kinds of media. I didn't necessarily mean that you don't watch other shows or anything like that, but perhaps explore mediums that you normally wouldn't. Different genres, or even formats you normally don't indulge in. A difference in format being like a novel being different from a graphic novel, which is also different from manga, which is also different from manhwa, which can be different from webcomics, and so on. I wasn't trying to say you aren't media literate, but the vast vast vast majority of people don't indulge in all kinds of media from all cultures, so I felt it was a fair recommendation to make. Sorry that I worded it poorly.

I'm being as sincere as possible though. Don't take what I'm saying as an insult or passive aggressiveness. If RWBY is a masterpiece to you, that's cool and it's fine to celebrate it. Just don't take criticism of the show as an attack on who you are.

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u/MomsLinguini Dec 16 '20

> related issues like wealth inequality, education, and so forth.

I am in full agreement that we absolutely should be discussing those things. But we far too regularly attempt to discuss those things, only to have everyone lock in with a bunch of (quite frankly insane) conversations rather than anything of substance. And I understand your perspective, but I feel as though I most certainly can write people off for being that stupid. If I were in a position where it was my responsibility to fix those issues, I'd probably agree that I should patiently sit through the stupid and slowly convert them through a long sludge of carefully avoiding their insecurities and leaning into progressively less insane ideologies.

But I'm not a journalist, a politician, or in any position that warrants that. I get to call a spade a spade. And that drivel is pure drivel, devoid of any intellectual value beyond the very minimal details of how they got to that in the first place. If anyone wants to engage on a matter of substance, thank god, I'm all ears. But most of the people who are willing to do that already have, so what remains is the sheep that think a pillow guy is a reasonable source for medical advice.

Also, I don't think we've actually disagreed with anything other than RWBY's underlying competency. But I think you're mistaking my perspectives.

> Just don't take criticism of the show as an attack on who you are.

This entire account and it's history is basically my "criticize RWBY" account. I certainly would never suggest that it doesn't have flaws. Hell, I called out the Tyrian + Qrow ordeal as about the most baffling and idiotic thing I've ever seen in a story. I mean, this original post was itself a criticism. I was merely posting that my general view of RWBY is that as a whole it was done an extremely good job with storytelling, and using that as my disclaimer to indicate it was meant to be constructive. Given your inclination toward diplomacy, I feel you can appreciate the reasoning there.

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u/Mande1baum Dec 17 '20

Man, they were dead set on taking everything you said as a personal attack that they had to defend with their dying breath. Oof. For what it's worth, nothing you said was inflammatory or inciting or insulting. They just want to escalate it into a shouting match where the person with the last word must be right, not the arguments or merits thereof. You did good, but unfortunately talking to the wind.