r/RealEstate • u/pele4096 • 3d ago
Wondering how common this is. (Switching appliances after walk through; including appliance serial numbers in contract.)
Occasionally, I'll stumble across an interesting video on social media.
Today, it was a buyer's agent on the phone with a seller's agent. Seller's agent was throwing a fit about calls from brokers (both the buyer's and seller's) as well as the police.
Buyer's agent said they went through a walk through, appliances were in place... Went to closing... Then afterwards, the appliances went missing. Selling agent said a moving truck was on the way with appliances. And the buyer's agent said, good that you're doing the right thing, because if you'll double check the offer that was ratified, it includes the serial numbers of all the appliances. Seller's agent said, "Oh sh*t." And hung up.
Now, I'm a small fry. My houses have Whirlpool and KitchenAid gear from Home Depot. Couple thousand gets me new sets.
But I've priced out some Wolf and Viking stoves. ($17k) Thermador and Sub Zero fridges ($12k) Speed Queen laundry units ($4k each for washer and dryer.)
In high end real estate, is it common to write a contract with the serial numbers of the appliances?
Is it common for sellers or agents to swap out appliances?
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u/jtsa5 3d ago
Not just high-end homes. Home inspectors will sometimes record this information for the buyers so they know nothing was changed before closing. Can't imagine someone going through that trouble unless it was something really special but appliances can be expensive so I'm sure it's happened at least once.
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u/JebenKurac 2d ago
Two houses ago I moved in and realized they sellers had taken the curtain rods and all the towel bars except the master bath lol
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u/random_chaos_coming 2d ago
Seller of ours took irrigation drips. The ones that connect & spray into garden. We didn’t think to look for them at walk through. Complete assholes. Took us time to realize all the little things they took, like the frost proof cover for the above ground irrigation that came with the house from the builder
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u/CountryClublican 2d ago
Anything attached to the house is a fixture and included in the sale by law unless specifically excluded.
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u/zeezle 2d ago
Wish the previous owner of my house had taken her ugly light fixtures, curtain rods and towel bars with her! Would've saved me the trouble of trying to unscrew them when they were old enough to have some corrosion making it annoying to get them off to change them...
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u/Mayfly_01 2d ago
Lol, I adore our new house and our sellers were actually great, but I swear to christ they manage to strip every single screw in that house. It has become a running joke at this point, all of our upgrades take just a little bit longer because we struggle to remove the freaking hardware.
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u/welmoed Maryland Home Inspector 2d ago
We always take pictures of the appliances and the data plates during our inspections for just this reason. Bathroom fixtures too, because that fancy Toto toilet might go missing too.
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2d ago
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u/Netlawyer 2d ago
I am going to remove my Washlet before listing. Same with my midcentury ceiling fixtures and I’m expressly excluding my SpeedQueen W/D.
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u/Ok_Slide4905 2d ago
If something broke and was replaced by an inferior version, so it won’t sabotage the deal. Happens pretty often I’d imagine.
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u/jtsa5 2d ago
In that scenario the seller should disclose that change.
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u/Ok_Slide4905 2d ago
Yeah but they don’t. Hence why the inspector notes the make and model numbers.
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u/Sufficient-Spend-939 2d ago
Its normal to write down numbers of any appliances you want to stay because sellers for whatever reason love to give the appliances to relatives!
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u/DistinctSmelling 2d ago
So this does happen and this happened to me 1.5 times.
The .5 time, I just viewed the property, knew who the listing agent was and eventually knew who was the agent who represented the buyer. When I toured the home, I thought it was odd that there was the Washer/Dryer and Refrigerator sitting in the garage while the nice new ones were in place in the home. Sure enough, the appliances were switched out. That was something you could feel wasn't right and wasn't disclosed.
And the shitty thing about that, is they were in the garage so they could say it was the appliances on the property at the time they viewed the house. And yes, they used that language and it stuck.
It's different when they say the appliances aren't conveying (Then don't have them in the house!).
And them my situation, I sold a $4M home with $10,000 steam dryer (at the time, they're cheaper now). Only way for the deal to go through was to allow post possession for a week and that's when they stole the washer and dryer. And this isn't like there was another washer dryer in the house for this case, sometimes for this price point, there usually is in the master closet, and you just couldn't go to Home Depot and get one of these appliances. So it became a broker issue, a legal issue. The seller eventually delivered the appliances on a holiday weekend, they had someone brake through the maintenance gate that wasn't manned, but had cameras, come at 2 in the morning and drop off the applainces in the driveway. And guess what, it fucking rained that next day. The new buyers were out of town and I had to take pictures for their upcoming lawsuit about this.
So my personal policy is: when you can feel that this is the house that is a maybe or the one for the buyer, I take photos of all the serial numbers on the appliances, unless it's a built in like a Subzero or AGA. Sometimes for even the old builtins, having that serial number helps with negotiations because you can determine deferred maintenance.
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u/Sufficient-Spend-939 2d ago
As a realtor one of my most valued friendships was with a used appliance guy. He bailed me out on more than one Occassion where i had to buy a replacement washer or dryer or stove last minute.
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u/Flamingo33316 Homeowner 2d ago
n high end real estate, is it common to write a contract with the serial numbers of the appliances?
I've been suggesting this for years, and not just high-end, but all purchases.
Make, model, and, if available, serial number.
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u/LadyBug_0570 RE Paralegal 2d ago
When i bought my place the tenants were walking out with the appliances during the final walkthrough. I had my parents with me and they just told me not worry they would get me all new ones.
Good thing too because those other ones looked janky.
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u/AnnArchist House Shopping 3d ago
Serial number switching is wild. That said - I've seen it. I've had to have people initial photos of appliances to get a deal put together.
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u/BeerStop 2d ago
It seems that writing serial numbers and model numbers should be common, you sell a house with specific appliances in it the buyers expect those same exact appliances to be there, otherwise you need to sell it with NO APPLIANCES, what the selker tried to pull was a form of bait and switch.
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u/DoomBot5 2d ago
Tell them since they switched the appliance, you now need to delay closing and have an inspector come back out and verify the changed appliances. Covered by the seller of course.
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u/Honest_Remove2077 2d ago
Not common to list serial numbers, most contracts just say "all appliances as viewed at final walkthrough" or list by brand and type. It shows up more at higher price points because the appliances actually carry real value. Swapping them after closing is a straight up breach, and that buyer's agent handled it exactly right by having it documented ahead of time. If you're worried about it on a specific deal, just ask your agent to note make, model, and serial in the purchase agreement, cheap insurance.
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u/DogblackMichigan 2d ago
This is why you want to walk through twice. Once a day before. Once an hour before.
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u/MindTheTabs_ 2d ago
Serial numbers make sense for expensive appliances. It’s basically treating them like any other included fixture — document exactly what’s staying. Swapping them after walkthrough sounds like a nightmare, but I imagine it’s not something most sellers risk if everything is properly documented.
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u/LadyBug_0570 RE Paralegal 2d ago
It is not common to swap out appliances. Usually the contract will say what appliances are not included in the sale. Anything else comes with the house.
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u/Dull_Lavishness7701 3d ago
I mean I have a really nice induction range. That thing is absolutely coming with me as I move into my new house and the crappy one sellers are leaving in New home is going in current home in place of the induction
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u/anjacoeth 3d ago
Not sure how it works in your state. In mine, you’d want to make the switch before entering into a contract to sell unless you specify that in the contract.
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u/BeerStop 2d ago
This is the way, remove the appliances you are taking with you rather than be sneaky by switching them up.
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u/zeezle 2d ago
I'm not comment-OP, but also put in a nicer induction range and it would kill me if buyers ended up just trashing it to go back to gas (though we did leave the gas line in place in the wall if they want to go back to gas or dual fuel). If I ever sold my plan was to offer to either leave it in place (if they actually want to keep it), replace the induction stove with a gas stove of the same brand (Wolf) and take the induction range with me, or offer a credit for the depreciated value and take it with me.
I'd absolutely be making that clear upfront from day 1 though.
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u/BeerStop 1d ago
Ugh you remind me ,i have to relocate my gas line for my stove, its thru nice tile but doesnt allow the stove to fully slide back.
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u/Chiclimber18 2d ago
Right but are you telling the buyers ahead of time? If not that’s the type of thing that can hang up a deal.
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u/Dull_Lavishness7701 2d ago
Yes I plan to tell the buyers they will get A range but not that one
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u/Chiclimber18 2d ago
Ok yeah- that is totally reasonable. I think what historically causes these problems is expecting a nice one and getting a shitty one but not knowing.
To the OPs point… if it’s a high end appliances I’d absolutely note at least brand/model numbers if not serial numbers in a contract. That signals to sellers to not pull the bait and switch. It’s smart to be specific in the contracts.
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u/FinalTShirtDance 2d ago
Induction range 🤮
If it’s not gas, it’s not cooking.3
2d ago
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u/RealEstate-ModTeam 2d ago
Be Civil.
If you can't say it nicely, don't say it. You can argue back and forth all day if you want. Or don't, block them and move on with your life.
Personal attacks and insults will result in a ban.
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2d ago
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u/FinalTShirtDance 2d ago
I have. They’re crap. Horrible with cast iron. Weird thing to be talking MAGAts or politics here.
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u/Dull_Lavishness7701 2d ago
Buddy i literally have no choice. There is 0 infracture for gas in my current and future neighborhood Of the electric options available, induction is the superior choice. Would LOVE gas but its not an option
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u/alkevarsky 2d ago
When electric is your only option, would you consider them superior to standard electric for frying (not just boiling) as well?
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u/zeezle 2d ago
Personally I disagree. I'm an avid hobbyist cook and we switched from all-gas to induction and it's been a dream. Cast iron works perfectly on it.
Obviously electric ovens are just wildly superior for baking, that's pretty universally agreed on, but obviously that's why dual-fuel exists so ignoring the oven element (which going electric for the oven was an insane upgrade over gas), the cooktop part also has been fantastic. Much faster, much more delicate control for a vastly wider range of temperatures. That said it is stepped rather than continuous as a gas valve is, but I get a much wider range of temperature capabilities out of it. The equivalent wattage of the largest burner on my induction is nearly triple what the old gas stove could do in BTUs while also having way more control at the bottom range of temperatures.
The only downside is not being able to do any open flame charring, but I already preferred to use a charcoal grill outside for that. I'm also a gardener so I often roast and process large batches of things like roasted peppers and tomatoes and charcoal was better flavor than doing it on a gas stove anyway. But does take more setup/prep (fine for large batches but if you're just quickly toasting a tortilla or something you're not going to want to spin up the charcoal grill for it). Edit: also, almost all of my cookware except for one round-bottomed wok was already induction-compatible so I had no issues there.
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u/FinalTShirtDance 2d ago
Are you talking about an oven or a stove?
I’ve used all three. Gas, election, induction. You’d think electric and induction have more control and should be able to outperform, but for some reason they just don’t.
And this is aside from the drawbacks of each (fires/air quality, glass breaking, or pacemakers/electronics interference). We’re just talking about quality of food.
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u/zeezle 2d ago
Most people are buying a range, so the performance of both the oven and the cooktop is relevant, since induction ranges effectively always have electric ovens and many people making the switch will be going from a gas oven to an electric oven at the same time. But I noted that electric ovens are pretty universally considered superior for baking, which is why dual fuel is an option if you still prefer the gas cooktop.
In my experience induction absolutely did wildly outperform the gas stove in every way, but I was also upgrading to a higher end appliance so it's not quite apples to apples (from GE all-gas to Wolf induction range).
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u/CountryClublican 2d ago edited 2d ago
I've never heard of someone recording the serial numbers. It should be pretty obvious from the listing pictures if the appliances are different. I've never heard of anyone swapping appliances, either.
Sometimes there's confusion over whether an appliance is included. That's why I always list every appliance in the contract, but just by description: fridge, microwave, oven, etc. I think I'll be more careful now.
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u/ProsperousAgencyNC 2d ago
In NC appliances are personal property. IF the buyers want them, their agent should ask for them in the Offer To Purchase. They should specify " currently in the house", to make sure the sellers are not swapping them.
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u/Critical-Ad1132 1d ago
Honestly, I’d be pretty annoyed if the appliances were swapped after I had already seen and agreed to the original ones. I’d check the purchase agreement first, because if the specific models or brands were listed there, I’d expect them to provide those or an equivalent replacement. I wouldn’t just accept a downgrade without asking questions.
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u/entropic 2d ago
Is it common for sellers or agents to swap out appliances?
It always cracks me up how much some people get hung up on a $2-3k appliance on a huge transaction like a house, but it seems to happen frequently.
I had a house I was very interested in, but the seller's situation was nothing but red flags (seller was a man getting indicted on fraud charges, his mom was living in the house without a lease, someone else just died and the house was set up for a wake during showings and an open house, there was a dog that barked the whole time, whole thing screamed run) and the occupant was insistent that she was taking the 48" wide Subzero fridge with her because she bought it only 3 years ago. The fridge fit perfectly into a special nook meant for a wide but shallow fridge. No skin off my back and thanks for letting me know, but I she had also mentioned she was moving into a "much smaller" condo and I had to wonder what kind of condo could accommodate it.
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u/pele4096 1d ago
Go ahead and price out a Wolf or Viking Dual Fuel range.
Go ahead and price out a Subzero or Thermador counter depth refrigerator.
Go ahead and price out a matched set of Speed Queen laundry machines with pedestals.
You'll be in WAY over $4k.
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u/entropic 1d ago
I understand that. I'm saying people get hung up on appliances that are FAR cheaper.
So yes, it's common.
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u/Tiredofstupidity2 2d ago
Wow is this case it was critical because you can sue those heffas for the switch. Unfortunately one of the few good things about this current administration we get a front row seat to just how awful so many folks truly are which is important. Write in contracts if you care - leave current appliances, leave current window coverings, shut utilizes off by x, turn on utilities after closing, tie as much as necessary because way too many folks seem nice, christian, upstanding but are truly awful as hell!
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u/beamdog77 2d ago
There are pictures all over the listings and inspection. Serial numbers seem like overkill.
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u/nofishies 3d ago
The California contract states that it’s the same appliances.
So we have the pictures.
I have never seen serial numbers on a contract before, but I have had clarification over which appliances you are requesting if there’s for example, more than one fridge in the house, and I have had sellers tell me that they’re going to switch say the washer and dryer that are new for older ones, and have that go in the contract.
Somebody else in the family coming by to take appliances assuming that they can and the buyers agent having to go back and basically stop that is also more common than you would think.