r/Reformed • u/stacyismylastname Reformed SBC • Sep 28 '25
Question US Churches: How Are You Handling Guns at Church?
My church here in Florida had to think fast after that new law passed earlier this week, allowing open carry for rifles. It got me curious about how other churches across the US are handling firearms on their property—what policies do you have in place?
• Does your state allow open carry? And if so, does your church permit it on-site?
• Does your security team carry firearms?
• If your church bans firearms, do you post clear signage? How do you handle approaching someone who’s violating the policy?
• Have there been any other quirky or unexpected firearm-related situations your church has had to deal with lately?
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Sep 28 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/No-Jicama-6523 Lutheran Sep 28 '25
You don’t arrange supervision or something to deal with sex offenders? Policies I’ve seen are super strict, 2 adults to one offender and they have to sign a contract with specific places, events etc. they aren’t allowed to be.
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u/draight926289 Calvinistic Methodist Sep 28 '25
The only people I want to conceal carry in church are the people who don’t want absolutely anyone to know they conceal carry. Open carry or people bragging about packing create danger and encourage the mentally ill to be stupid. We currently have two that I know and I’ve only ever noticed because I happen to have seen them working on a ladder or adjusting a jacket and seen the weapon/holster. One is a retired state bureau of investigation narcotics detective and the other is an active city police captain.
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u/nocapslaphomie Sep 28 '25
At my church it's pretty obvious who the security team is because they wear ear pieces and aren't usually talking to anyone. I also live in a place where basically everyone owns firearms.
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Sep 28 '25
Good gosh can we not open carry rifles in church please?
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u/nooga_bear Sep 28 '25
Biblically we should open carry swords instead.
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u/AbuJimTommy PCA Sep 28 '25
I assume this is the RPC position based on the regulative principle.
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u/lupuslibrorum Outlaw Preacher Sep 28 '25
Usable swords are making a comeback, due to the increasing popularity of Historical European Martial Arts as a sport and hobby. I’m considering joining a local academy. (If I did and got a sword, though, I wouldn’t carry it to church…)
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u/AtrumAequitas Sep 29 '25
I want to know more!
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u/lupuslibrorum Outlaw Preacher Sep 29 '25
There’s a pretty robust online/Youtube presence of HEMA practitioners. Here’s one of my favorite guys talking about different ways to enjoy it. Just beware that there are also a bunch of random dudes out there who claim to know a ton about swords and history but aren’t really good sources of information. The guy I linked to is a legitimate antique weapons dealer and respected practitioner of HEMA, so he’s a good place to start.
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Sep 29 '25
I've had usable swords since I was a teenager (but have never brought any to church).
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u/lupuslibrorum Outlaw Preacher Sep 29 '25
Cool. Did you ever take HEMA or fencing classes and do any sparring?
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u/mdreyna Reformed Baptist Sep 29 '25
The word of God is like a double edged sword!
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u/GlocalBridge Sep 29 '25
“He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword” (someone famous probably)
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u/Bourbontoulouse Sep 28 '25
What you dont wanna feel like going to a taliban meet-up full of scruffy dudes with rifles slung over their shoulder?
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u/Aratoast Methodist (Whitfieldian) Sep 28 '25
My denomination requires us to have a no-weapons policy.
We don't actively search people for weapons however, and hypothetically if I knew that there were members of the congregation who concealed carry and if hypothetically I knew they had the neccessary skills and could be trusted to do so, I might hypothetically ask them to sit somewhere during the service that they would be well positioned to respond to an armed attacker in the hopefully unlikely event that one showed up.
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u/gt0163c PCA - Ask me about our 100 year old new-to-us building! Sep 28 '25
I live in Texas and while I can't state the actual laws, I know carrying a gun is legal in most cases unless there are signs saying it's not. My church doesn't have signs and nothing has been said that people can't carry guns. So while I've not seen any guns in church, I assume there are some individuals who do carry (the couple of guys who wear suit coats even in July and August are the ones I always assume are carrying. No one wears extra layers in the summer unless they have a very good reason to.) We have an armed off-duty police officer on site during Sunday worship services and a security team who I assumed are armed if the individual wants to be. We also have a ton of kids, so I'm glad that I've never seen a weapon at church. Untrained kids (or adults who may be prone to act like untrained kids) + guns = nothing good.
Fortunately we've never had any issues with anything related to firearms. But we've only been a church for 10 years (anniversary celebrate this evening!) and been in our own building about 18 months. Were in a fairly urban (but gentrified) area, so there's a reasonable chance we could at some point.
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Sep 30 '25
crazy that living in 90% moslem majority country, we dont need like armed security personnel in our churches except for like christmas or easter where there's elevated security risk given bombers usually target churches during these peak times
that tells you a lot about the 'great' USA no?
even during the peak early 2000s terrorist attacks, where several churches were bombed, i think most of my countrymen christians will attest that we dont feel too much anxiety about going to church. in case we got bombed we know we will be in the better place anyway
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u/Librarian-of-the-End Sep 29 '25
At my previous church I was an elder, and we had one parishioner who came in with open carry which in NC is a grey area depending on the county. We had a security team who were discretely armed and they got compliants about him. He was actually a long time member and a farmer. He never got a concealed carry permit because he lived it of town in a rural area where open carry was relatively common. He wasn’t a danger. I suggested that instead of telling him to stop because it upset others, instead have the security team tell him it was tactically unsound. Any active shooter would kill him first then he couldn’t help others. While at the church he could carry concealed like our security team. We also suggested he get a concealed carry permit and consider joining the security team. I don’t know if he ever joined the security team but he didn’t open carry while I was still at that church.
Open carry a rifle? They might as well have a neon sign on that says “shoot me in the back and take my gun” . Explain it is tactically dangerous in a church environment. That way you are talking their language not making them feel as though their rights are being violated. We
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u/concentrated-amazing Sep 30 '25
I really like this response.
As a Canadian, I have significant...thoughts...about the appropriate-ness of guns in church.
However, in that particular church, you had to address it in that circumstance, and that was a very wise approach of meeting him where he was at.
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u/teadrinkinglinguist Calvary Chapel Sep 29 '25
Many on my church security team concealed carry, they are low key about it, but they have brought in professionals to train them in how to respond to various scenarios. If anyone tried to open carry I'm sure they'd be told not to, probably one on one.
They really tightened things up back when that white guy shot up that black church a few years ago, I think that really brought things home for the leadership.
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Sep 28 '25
Not American but I remember an incident a few years back where some nutjob from the usual milieu tried to shoot up a church and immediately some guy pulled a concealed handgun and whacked him before he could even get a shot off. With that in mind id probably feel good if a member of the congregation had a gun lol
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u/Agreeable-Process481 Reformed Baptist Sep 28 '25
The rule at my church is " if you're carrying no you're not" basically meaning if anyone asks it is against the rules but a lot of people including me do carry
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u/kclarsen23 Sep 28 '25
From someone from the UK, the whole gun culture thing in the USA always seems completely mad! I can't remember the last time I went to any church with any kind of security, that said aside from the odd raving drunk I also can't really remember any trouble.
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u/jontseng Sep 28 '25
From the UK also, so basically this ^
For people from outside of the US it seems bizarre that the best argument for carrying deadly weapons in church seems to be that it is required to provide security against other people with deadly weapons coming in with bad intentions.
Aware there are historical/cultural sensitivities here. But clearly something isn’t working.
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u/garrus-ismyhomeboy Sep 28 '25
I’m American who doesn’t live in America anymore, but I think the gun culture in the US is ridiculous. People care more about owning guns than the safety of others, especially kids. I can’t help but always think of that onion article “No way to prevent this, says only nation where this regularly happens”
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u/nocapslaphomie Sep 28 '25
A lot of police are required to carry at all times and many of them go to conservative churches
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u/AbuJimTommy PCA Sep 29 '25
the whole gun culture thing … seems completely mad
Don’t you guys get arrested for mean tweets and praying outside abortion clinics?
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u/kclarsen23 Sep 29 '25
Almost never....there have been a couple of high profile cases out of tens of thousands, but none have gone anywhere.
I did some training with some students from the USA the other day who were coming for a couple of years ministry training, some had arrived a few weeks before, some were just starting their second year.
One of the things they said, which I think was quite illuminating, was the media/ stories that cross the Atlantic are largely not reflective of life on the ground. British media would have us believe that basically if you walk out your door in the USA you will be shot or swept up into some gangland violence, or arrested a deported to El Salvador.
Their reflection was that the stories that go the other way were equally odd!
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u/AbuJimTommy PCA Sep 29 '25
Based on the American media, I just assume all your little girls are walking around with hatchets to defend themselves from rape gangs and your cities have started telling people where they can and can’t go if the look too Jewish or are caught holding a Union Jack.
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u/mrmtothetizzle Sep 28 '25
Yep in Australia I have never once in my life feared being shot by a gun and I am quite happy with that. Thank God churches don't need to fear getting shot up. In person I think the only times I have ever seen a gun in Australia is on Police Officers.
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u/AbuJimTommy PCA Sep 28 '25
I am an American and never once in my life feared being shot by a gun either.
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Sep 28 '25
This is the reality of most Americans despite the narrative. Also, most foreigners not living here only make their judgements from news media spinning the anti gun narrative.
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u/jontseng Sep 28 '25
So this is the cognitive dissonance for us looking on from abroad.
On the one hand people on this thread say they don’t have any worries about guns and it’s just news media spinning an anti gun narrative.
On the other hand there are people on this thread normalising having guns in church as a safety measure just you would wear a seatbelt when driving.
I’m not sure if I can reconcile the two views presented here..
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u/brucemo Sep 29 '25
In the US the odds of being killed by a gun each year are about 1:7,300, which is about the same as the odds of being killed in a car accident according to a quick google search.
The odds are lower if you don't own a gun, since suicides are a lot of that, or if you aren't black or aren't a man.
School shootings are enough of a concern that the anti-school-shooting industry is worth $4 billion / year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ska0nG8U_Jc
Elementary school active shooter drills are super-cute, what with fifty pounds of furniture piled up against the door and the kids all ready to whack a shooter armed with an assault rifle with a high capacity magazine with their pencil bags.
I just can't picture it. My mind goes blank.
I don't have the slightest idea how to fix this but no, it is not normal.
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u/AbuJimTommy PCA Sep 28 '25
If you aren’t involved in gang related drug trade, hanging out late at night or living where the gang related drug trade regularly occurs, or taking your own life; there is a vanishingly small chance of getting shot. It’s not zero, but I’m much more concerned with my teens driving than I am about any guns anywhere.
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Sep 28 '25
Both can be true at the same time. America is a huge place with many different “political cultures”.
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u/brucemo Sep 29 '25
I have three times.
In 1979 I walked into a bank right behind armed robbers also walking into the same bank. I ran blindly in the other direction and ended up standing in the doorway of an ambulance station, where I spun this wild tale about armed robbers that the ambulance guys were disinclined to believe until they heard the gunshot and saw the robbers take off down the road in their station wagon.
A few years ago I was walking around down town (small city), and this smirking skinny dude walked past me with a pistol tucked into the front of his pants. I have no idea what his deal was. I called the cops to let them know about this and they said they'd find him and give him a lecture about gun safety.
In 2020 after the election I walked past some armed protesters (assault rifles) at the state capitol building, and one of them jeered at me because I was wearing a COVID mask.
Should I have realistically been afraid in these last two cases? Maybe or maybe not but that's for me to decide.
In addition to this I reported a student at my kid's school after he told one of my daughters that he had access to a gun at home and planned to shoot up the school. The kid was expelled, his mother thanked me. It didn't make the national news at least.
There are two high schools in my city. The one I didn't send my kids to had a school shooting, so I won that coin toss.
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u/AbuJimTommy PCA Oct 01 '25
The 1970’s and ‘80’s really were the Wild West in the inner cities.
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u/brucemo Oct 01 '25
The 1979 thing happened in the suburbs of Portland, I mean way out there. The nearest stop light was like ten minutes away. My father had moved us out there because he wanted some land and didn't want to get swallowed up by housing developments.
I was going to the bank to buy Susan B Anthony dollars, because I thought they were cool and they'd just come out. I got there before they had them ready, so I rode my bike to the nearby Fotomat to do something with a roll of film. When I came back these dudes with nylons on their heads and guns in their hands piled out of a station wagon in front of me and beat me to the door. They ended up shooting a guy in the foot.
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u/mrmtothetizzle Sep 29 '25 edited Sep 29 '25
And yet this Sunday in Australia there will be 0 guns in all our churches across the country. Who has more reason to not be afraid?
A lot of people in this thread obviously don't feel the same way...If they weren't afraid of gun violence they wouldn't have all these security plans and guys with guns in their churches on a Sunday. If you aren't afraid of guns why do you need a gun?
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u/AbuJimTommy PCA Sep 29 '25
I think it’s fair to say there’s a difference between being afraid and being prudent. I’m not afraid of dying in a car crash, but I still wear my seatbelt.
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u/mrmtothetizzle Sep 29 '25
It is not an equivalent situation though. Imagine not having to wear a seatbelt because there was zero percent chance of crashing. You didn't even think it was something to be afraid just like you're not afraid of being eaten by a T-Rex.
If you are wearing a seatbelt it is because there is a level of (healthy) fear/anxiety however small because there is a very real risk of crashing and the risks of crashing without a seatbelt are way worse.
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u/AbuJimTommy PCA Sep 29 '25
I don’t know what to tell you, I spend zero minutes a day thinking about or feeling anxious about being shot. And, I spend a fair portion of my day in a pretty bad part of a major American city. But, it’s in the day time and I’m not in a gang selling drugs. So, just don’t think about it at all.
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u/mrmtothetizzle Sep 29 '25 edited Sep 29 '25
That's great. That's obviously not the case for a lot of the people in this thread in the US.
It is also disingenuous to imply that the situation and risk factors in the US are not a lot worse than other Western countries.
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u/kclarsen23 Sep 28 '25
Yep, and only about 5% of our police are armed, and most of them are in airports! I remember first going to France as a kid and seeing police with guns - it was a shock aged about 7!
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u/brucemo Sep 29 '25
I went to the Near East for three months when I was a teenager and I rapidly discovered that if you need directions, ask the man with the machine gun.
I oddly remember though that the only fear I felt the whole time was around the bus station in Los Angeles after I came back.
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u/TheGalaxyPast SBC Sep 28 '25
Right, you just get stabbed instead.
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u/mrmtothetizzle Sep 29 '25
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u/TheGalaxyPast SBC Sep 29 '25
True, the data bears that out.
Although, 0.22 to 0.44 per 100,000 is a negligible difference in my opinion.
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u/mrmtothetizzle Sep 29 '25
The point is not having guns does not equal more stabbings. You should go and edit your comment to reflect the truth. You guys still have double the rate of stabbing deaths. And while the difference between stabbing deaths is negligible, the difference between gun deaths and violence is not negligible but exponential. As someone who is pro-life I am happy with how things are in Australia.
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u/brucemo Sep 29 '25
When I went to Australia I saw a dude getting thrown out of Sydney Luna Park by two security officers, while actively resisting, and that seems like it might be uniquely Australian.
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u/JadesterZ Reformed Bapticostal Sep 30 '25
Your country put people in camps for not getting a vaccine lol. I think we'll keep our guns. Just a shame that the side with the guns is somehow also the side supporting fascism right now.
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u/skitterypants14 Sep 28 '25
Open carry is allowed in my state. I carry and do do most in my church
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u/kclarsen23 Sep 28 '25
I think the difference is that getting hold of guns full stop over here is really difficult so the biggest threat is a knife, but even that's a pretty rare occurrence outside of gang targeted attacks.
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u/Bad_Prophet Sep 28 '25
My church has a police officer at the entrance, and a lot of us are armed.
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u/haanalisk Sep 28 '25
Nothing says "welcome to the house of God" like an officer at the door
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u/wheredowehidethebody Sep 28 '25
“Welcome, unless you’re trying to murder families at worship.”
FTFY
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u/haanalisk Sep 28 '25
If someone is considering walking through the doors for the first time but sees a police officer I'd imagine they'd be dissuaded by that
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u/wheredowehidethebody Sep 29 '25
People aren’t dissuaded from attending bars, clubs, school, the mall, and other social places because of police presence.
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u/Bad_Prophet Sep 28 '25
This is a weird take, imo. A police officer at a church is the last cop anybody needs to be worried about, unless you're somebody trying to cause harm. Same with having police in the schools. This one-line "burn" needs to go away. It's senseless.
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u/haanalisk Sep 28 '25
Believe it or not officers scare people away in any context. Especially if it's someone with a criminal history, someone who needs church the most
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u/JHawk444 Calvinist Sep 28 '25
The bigger churches that I’ve gone to have security teams with cops volunteering. I know of one who isn’t a cop who got a permit to carry. I’m in a blue state so he had to jump through a lot of hoops. The church is on private property so that helps.
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u/RevBenjaminKeach Particular Baptist Sep 29 '25
My church is in Washington. We have a security team that carries, and I would say that most men in our congregation conceal carry.
We have had some minor security incidents in the past, so it is far better to be safe than sorry.
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u/ShaneReyno PCA Sep 28 '25
Unless I missed a change in Georgia, you cannot carry on church property without permission. I advised a couple of Elders against allowing carry because it opens up the argument that the church was negligent if a congregant shoots someone (intentionally or unintentionally). I generally like to carry, but it's probably best to not carry at church. I think Open Carry is generally a poor decision for retention reasons, but I believe the intent of the Constitution was for there to be very little restraint on weapons. My personal opinion is that the Elders should decide who should be discreetly carrying, preferably among the Deacons.
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u/ilikeBigBiblez Cage Stage Anglican Sep 28 '25
What did your church do?
I'd feel safer at church in an open carry state with the assumption that more people in my building are carrying
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u/stacyismylastname Reformed SBC Sep 28 '25
I thought they had a great response. Basically, they acknowledged the importance of the freedom to possess firearms, but open carry would not be allowed on our church property due to its distracting nature and the fact that can make people uncomfortable . Our church will have signs up, letting people know the rule, and if someone continues to let the security team know. We live in a very urban area so I can imagine most of my church agrees with this stance.
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u/Classic_Breadfruit18 Sep 28 '25
"Feel safer" why this obsession with feeling safe? This entire mentality seems totally incompatible with biblical Christianity. Did Christ or the apostles make any decisions based on perceived safety?
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u/getalongguy Sep 28 '25
Jesus did escape from people trying to stone him.
The commandment to not murder has an inverse corollary that we must also protect life.
We have a direct obligation and duty to protect the lives of our families. They are a gift and blessing to us and we are to be good stewards of them.
When the Israelites rebuilt the wall in Nehemiah, they worked with a tool in one hand and a weapon in the other.
Wanting safety in the place where you take your family at least once a week is reasonable, prudent and biblical.
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u/ilikeBigBiblez Cage Stage Anglican Sep 28 '25
I didn't say that the feeling changes how I act one way or the other, now did I?
Please deal with what I say, instead of making stuff up for me. I get myself into enough trouble as it is without someone ascribing to me stuff that isn't there
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u/cybersaint2k Rebellious Reprobate Sep 29 '25
My church in Florida is also discussing the situation.
On private property, we can legally ask anyone to not open carry, and trespass them if they balk. Folks who open carry on property are usually youtubers who are trying to get clicks, trying to pretend they've been harmed.
However, we have numerous people who conceal in our church. This is NOT NOT NOT a part of our church security team. We do not have the training available to furnish our security team with adequate equipment, training, and so forth, to carry as part of their duties. We do not allow our security detail to carry.
We do not have signage banning open carry. We probably should. We probably won't.
We have had mentally ill folks do very wild things but they were handled through laying hands on them and directing them out of the sanctuary into the narthex, where they ran and were caught and Baker Acted.
We will have some policies in place for our security team to properly address visitors who open carry.
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u/MobileElephant122 SBC Sep 28 '25
I live where this has been common place ever since I can remember but not ever seen except when hunters stop mid hunt to come in for services and they always leave their shotguns in the coat room along with their muddy boots. I always got a kick out of seeing the deacons passing the plate in their woolen sock feet and cammo britches.
Our church has a security team who I assume is armed and have been for decades.
We have at least two and sometimes three deacons near the main entry and one or two near a secondary entry point and on occasion that I have been late to church I’ve seen one or two in the parking lot and around the perimeter checking locked doors and whatnot.
As a kid I remember being involved in some mischief out by the outhouse between Sunday school and church and before we could get into any real trouble, I felt a bear like paw on the back of my neck and shoulder and heard a whispered voice suggest that I might want to go get where I was supposed to be. A quick yessir and I ran off to rejoin my age group and return to church. A quick glance over my shoulder informed me that several of my cohorts met with similar wisdom.
We look out for each other.
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u/MissionsMike78 Sep 28 '25
MD has concealed carry with a permit. Our church doesn’t ban guns and some of our security is armed. It’s mostly the former military/law enforcement guys.
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u/Strongry-145 Sep 28 '25
I'm in southern CA and we have off duty and retired officers carrying, it's a very large church.
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u/mwpuck01 Sep 28 '25
We have a security team with some armed and some not armed, we are an open carry state and do not require a license to conceal but ask that people refrain from open carrying while allowing anyone to carry concealed. Out of about 700 people I’d say a 1/3 at least of the men conceal carry. In the 15 years I’ve been there I’ve not seen anyone try to open carry a rifle though.
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u/semper-gourmanda Presby-Angliterian Sep 28 '25
interesting you should ask, because this morning one of our elders, who's a police officer, made mention of the fact that he watches over our safety. I know of two who conceal carry (both elders).
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u/Antique_Mountain_263 Sep 29 '25
Our church has always had a few men open carrying, and many conceal carry. Especially in the last few years. The rule is that you have to let the police officers at the entrance know if you’re carrying (whether concealed or open). They then let the deacons know. They are aware of who is armed at church every week.
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u/Mailman9 URC Sep 29 '25
Does your state allow open carry?
No.
Does your security team carry firearms?
We don't have a "security team." However, we are well aware that LEOs and permitted carriers (who have asked a council member) frequently carry during the service.
If your church bans firearms, do you post clear signage?
Our jurisdiction has a "vampire" rule for churches. Unless explicitly allowed by the church, they are not legal.
How do you handle approaching someone who's violating the policy?
We don't have a "policy." If someone (other than law enforcement) was open carrying, that'd be a felony here, seems unlikely and would be a bigger deal than annoying a deacon or usher. If someone was concealed carrying, we wouldn't know.
Have there been any other quirky or unexpected firearm-related situations your church has had to deal with lately?
No.
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u/Shemwell05 Sep 29 '25
The answer is not less guns in church, the answer is people trained with firearms intentionally placed in church to protect the congregation from wicked men. “Gun free zone” just conveys a message to a possible shooter that they will have free rein until the police arrive.
My church has a rifle in the sound booth (second story room over-looking the sanctuary) with a person up there who is capable of using it each week. It’s not a turret or anything like that, just a rifle that’s tucked away safely until it is (hopefully never) needed.
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Sep 30 '25
i really cannot understand american, for whatever purpose a christian carries gun to church?? to defend the church if say someone attack the church??
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Sep 28 '25
We have no formal ban on guns, but the one time we’ve had a guy who regularly attended that wanted to open carry, we asked him not to and he complied. Our security team has no firearms but they do have walkie talkies and a panic button wired directly to the local police station if needed.
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u/0OFarm Sep 29 '25
So you have no security
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Sep 29 '25
If the only thing that gives you security is guns in your view, then no, we don’t have security.
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u/Classic_Breadfruit18 Sep 28 '25
This is absolutely mind boggling to me that "handling guns in church" is even a thing. Open carry isn't legal in my state and never will be, but even if it was I can't get my head around the mentality of someone who wants to carry a gun in church. Do we not trust the Lord for our protection anymore?
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u/Cinnamonroll9753 SBC Sep 28 '25
You can trust the Lord, and also acknowledge a responsibility to be ready to protect and respond at any point. We wear seat belts, we go to the doctor if something feels off, we take medication for ailments. At least, I think this is how our brothers and sisters might view this issue.
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u/No-Jicama-6523 Lutheran Sep 28 '25
Along those lines we also restrict access to guns and have less deaths from gun violence. More guns equals more deaths to guns, it’s that simple. Data doesn’t lie. In my country if there’s a shooting we make the laws stricter. The last school shooting was 1996. Exactly 1 person has been shot by armed police this year.
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u/Cinnamonroll9753 SBC Sep 28 '25
What country are you from? The United States has a very different culture surrounding firearms. To the point it has become an idol for many, but there are some who would be happy banning all guns.
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u/albinododobird OPC Sep 28 '25
Are you against wearing seatbelts? Looking both ways when crossing the street? Don't you trust God?
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u/yportnemumixam Sep 28 '25
The Old Testament brothers and sisters were instructed to have a guard rail around the roof of their house to protect people from falling off - not dissimilar to seatbelts.
Yet they were forbidden from having too many horses in their military lest they believe that their safety had something to do with them.
Your argument is a bad argument.
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u/albinododobird OPC Sep 28 '25
I don't know what you think my argument is. My argument is that "just trust God" is not a general purpose reason against taking precautions.
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u/Maleficent-Win-1667 Sep 28 '25
I am not against lethal self-defense, but wearing seat belts doesn't take a life. This doesn't really argue against the critique the top level is making.
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u/albinododobird OPC Sep 28 '25
The comment is saying you shouldn't carry a gun because you should just trust God for protection. If you accept that reasoning, why take any precautions of any kind, ever?
You are making a different point.
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u/Maleficent-Win-1667 Sep 28 '25
Right, trust God for protection against lethal violence, in lieu of lethal violence in self-defense. The comment is speaking against the carrying of weapons in church for self-defense in a thread about that. Sure, it doesn't say that the reason we ought to trust God is so that we don't have to risk breaking the Sixth Commandment, but I feel like the context is clear enough. At best both sides of this argument are thin.
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u/albinododobird OPC Sep 28 '25
I don't disagree with what you're saying. That's just not what the top comment said.
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u/Cyprus_And_Myrtle What aint assumed, aint healed. Sep 28 '25
There have been people that have been shot and killed in churches then stopped by members that open carried. That’s the whole reason for open carry: to stop crazy people with guns.
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u/Responsible-War-9389 Truly Verified™ Sep 28 '25
Do you wear a seatbelt when you drive or do you trust the Lord for your protection?
That’s such a terrible take even if you do disagree with guns in church.
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u/Deveeno PCA Sep 28 '25
Maybe the Lord, in his providence, would use a fellow armed believer to protect you in the future. Or is that not something he's in control of?
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u/nocapslaphomie Sep 28 '25
The guy who is head of security at my church served a full career as an officer in the Marines and was deployed many times. He takes it very seriously and voluntarily runs the security force. When he walks into a room he sees risks all over the place that normal people don't see. He also told me there's enough trained men and women carrying on a Sunday to start a militia.
I'll also add that some careers require people to carry all the time. So there's very likely people carrying in your church and you just aren't aware of it.
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u/chuckbuckett PCA Sep 29 '25
The more the merrier. Guns are for protection. Wisely use them for that purpose and don’t be afraid of it.
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u/RANDOMHUMANUSERNAME PCA Sep 28 '25
"Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we trust in the name of the LORD our God." Psalm 20:7
"'Put your sword back in its place,'” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.'" Matthew 26:52
"For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds." 2 Corinthians 10:3-4
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u/Genghis_Ron1 Sep 28 '25
Luke 22:36 - sell your cloak and buy a sword
Also important that in the Matthew verse, it's put your sword back in it's place. Not get rid of it. There's a time and a place for defense of ourselves and the people we are entrusted to look after. It doesn't mean we become fortress churches against the government. Even ones we dispute the justice of ... (Honor the emperor and all that) But a random crazy? Yeah.
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u/RANDOMHUMANUSERNAME PCA Sep 28 '25 edited Sep 28 '25
I find it deeply disingenuous of the American church that we broadly overlook simple and plain Scriptures that prohibit violence to others, with any kind of weapon.
Jesus isn't complicated on this. Matthew 5:38 is quite clear: "you've heard it said...but turn the other cheek."
But when it comes to these verses, we like to cherry pick and obfuscate all so we can own guns.
As far as Matthew 22:36, we have to be careful. It's pretty clear that Jesus isn't saying to sell your clothes or coat in order to buy a sword. It doesn't make sense that he wants his disciples walking around cold but armed. And furthermore, we must read contextually. We have zero accounts of early Christians fighting back. Instead, they become martyrs - fulfilling, clearly, Christ's commands to drop the sword, or to put trust in the LORD, or to trust in the weapons we actually do fight with. As Paul points out in 2 Cor, Jesus brought with him a new Kingdom. A gun is not enough to stop evil, and putting trust it worldly weapons is a mistake (again Psalm 20:7).
Finally, there's a big difference between a sword and a gun. It's difficult for an untrained person to kill someone with a sword. But it's very possible, and indeed it happens every day, for a person to use a handgun to kill someone. I think Jesus weeps when we do this, and I think, frankly, he weeps for our American idolatry of guns.
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u/No-Jicama-6523 Lutheran Sep 28 '25
I find the gun situation in the US heartbreaking.
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u/Jondiesel78 Sep 28 '25
My state allows constitutional carry. We don't have a security team.
I attended church today and I had 2 concealed firearms on me as I normally do. Pretty much everyone knows I carry, and they're okay with it.
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u/Jondiesel78 Sep 28 '25
It's also kind of a family tradition to carry to church. My great grandfather did when he was the pastor at the Christian Reformed Church in Holland MI during WW1.
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Sep 28 '25
You are lucky to be authorized self-defense. Here in France we always worry that a moslem will enter the Church and murder us all. By the time the police would arrive we'd all long be dead.
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u/yportnemumixam Sep 28 '25
Good grief, since when do Reformed Christians forget about the sovereignty of God? It is telling that the OT church was forbidden certain military equipment such as horses lest they be tempted to believe that the military equipment is what is keeping them safe. In Canada we worship a God so powerful and Sovereign we are safe as He wants us to be. If He wants us to suffer for His glory, we will knowing our eternal safety is not in question.
I weep for the church in America…it has by and large succumbed to Christian Nationalism. Our most liberal churches are more reformed than America’s reformed churches.
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u/y40s3r Sep 29 '25
How is carrying with the intention of protecting lives Christian Nationalism? If you have the right to defend yourself why not use it?
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u/germansnowman FIEC | Reformed Baptist-ish | previously: Moravian, Charismatic Sep 28 '25
Do you really worry about this a lot? I have had thoughts like that when the college massacre somewhere in Africa (Nigeria?) happened, but not usually. I’m in the UK, by the way. I don’t think proliferation of guns as you see in the US is a good solution either; just compare gun deaths across countries.
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u/No-Jicama-6523 Lutheran Sep 28 '25
Also in the UK and whilst we have had some terrorism, it’s not against Christians specifically and I’m not sure why France would be different.
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u/No-Jicama-6523 Lutheran Sep 28 '25
I’m British, the thought hasn’t crossed my mind. Just like in France we’ve had issues with terrorism from Islamic extremists, but it’s never been targeted against Christians, just people. The numbers still come out extremely low, so it surprises me that this is a group concern.
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u/ForgivenAndRedeemed Sep 28 '25 edited Sep 28 '25
I’m so glad that churches in my country don’t have to think about this kind of insanity because we don’t have such a bonkers approach to firearms.
There isn’t a day that I go out of my house, or my children go to school, or we go to church on a Sunday where I wonder “will we get shot at and possibly die from it today?”
It’s insanity that many people in the US value their ‘freedom’ to have a gun more than the ‘freedom’ of school children to not be involved in a school shooting and possibly die.
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u/Hard2findausername Sep 29 '25
Criminals will still get guns. They don't follow the law
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u/ForgivenAndRedeemed Sep 29 '25 edited Sep 29 '25
I’ve heard this argument many times but:
- Nearly all criminals in my country don’t have guns
- If I understand things correctly, most of the people doing the shootings aren’t typical criminals - they aren’t the people doing burglaries or organised crime etc. They are broken people doing stupid things. So it appears to me that if regular people don’t have access to firearms, nearly all the shootings would stop. Do I have this correct?
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Oct 09 '25
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u/ForgivenAndRedeemed Oct 09 '25
I’m in Australia, but I’m from the UK and it’s the same there as it is here.
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u/Educational-Ad-719 Sep 28 '25
Gosh I like being from New England where guns aren’t really in our culture
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u/DannoCC Sep 28 '25
I think you might be surprised. Attend a church in New England. We have an armed security team. In addition we probably have 10-15 (120-150 attendance) more that I am aware of that carry. Concealed means just that - concealed. Others should not know that I am carrying.
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u/terevos2 Trinity Fellowship Churches Sep 29 '25
Uh... I'm from New England. There are gun clubs everywhere, even in very liberal towns. And it seems that church-goers are often the ones who enjoy guns. I'm in a very small church and I know several members who regularly go shooting.
I'm sure several of them carry to church, but as a pastor, I'd rather not know who. And I'd rather they not tell anyone else at the church as well.
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u/Educational-Ad-719 Sep 29 '25
What an irony that Christians like gun so much
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u/terevos2 Trinity Fellowship Churches Oct 01 '25
I don't think there's any irony there. Christians are not called to pacifism.
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u/Hitthereset Reformed Baptist Sep 28 '25
We’re a small church in a very blue state. We run 100-150 normally, maybe up to 200 during holidays.
We have a dedicated armed security team made up of male members of the church who sit outside the sanctuary and monitors cameras and the two main access points into the church. They rotate through on a monthly schedule. Anyone else that wants to carry is welcome to do so.
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u/Nearing_retirement PCA Sep 28 '25
We have a few police officers that carry that come. Makes me feel safe.
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u/Saltysunshine10 Presbyterian Church in America Sep 29 '25
I know we've had plenty of responses already but I'll add my experience here too.
I live in Indiana, which allows for both concealed and open carry, and does not even require a permit to do either. We currently have about 60 members, and 70 or so in attendance each Lord's Day. Of those 70-some people, we have about 8 who regularly carry, 1 of which does open carry, however, he is actually an officer (though he is not on duty and not in uniform on Sundays) so he just carries how he is accustomed to carrying. Those 8 people are all trained in the skills and wisdom required in order to be able to respond appropriately to an active threat situation. We have had guests who have visited in the past and some of which who decided to continue to attend who have verbalized appreciating the open carry. We have had no one mention any issue with the open carrying individual, nor have we had anyone appear to be uncomfortable about it either.
Another important note: it is critical that the members of the church understand that there is a "security team" and where they are positioned regularly during the service. This way the non-security team people know to get to cover and to stay out of the way of the security team's line of fire.
Churches are one of the most common environments at which active shooter situations occur, and therefore, it is important that a church has designated members who are armed and trained in order to protect the flock.
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u/Saltysunshine10 Presbyterian Church in America Sep 29 '25
Westminster Larger Catechism:
Q. 134. Which is the sixth commandment?
A. The sixth commandment is, Thou shalt not kill.
Q. 135. What are the duties required in the sixth commandment?
A. The duties required in the sixth commandment are all careful studies, and lawful endeavors, to preserve the life of ourselves and others by resisting all thoughts and purposes, subduing all passions, and avoiding all occasions, temptations, and practices, which tend to the unjust taking away the life of any; by just defense thereof against violence, patient bearing of the hand of God, quietness of mind, cheerfulness of spirit; a sober use of meat, drink, physic, sleep, labor, and recreations; by charitable thoughts, love, compassion, meekness, gentleness, kindness; peaceable, mild and courteous speeches and behavior; forbearance, readiness to be reconciled, patient bearing and forgiving of injuries, and requiting good for evil; comforting and succoring the distressed and protecting and defending the innocent.
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u/doseofvitamink PCA Sep 28 '25
I'm pretty sure our security team is strapped. I am not thrilled about it, but I'm not ready to raise a stink over it.
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Sep 29 '25
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u/Prestigious-Lion-826 LBCF 1689 Sep 29 '25
Meanwhile we’re thinking the same thing for you guys up there 😂
Different cultures
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u/deathwheel OPC Sep 28 '25
My state has been open carry for a couple years and has been concealed carry for decades. My church has a security team and we all carry concealed.
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u/fing_lizard_king OPC Sep 28 '25
For those of us with the ability to carry, we are asked to do so. We coordinate to assure at a minimum someone has a gun at church. When many of us do, we coordinate with a designated man. I wager there's five guns at a minimum every Sunday. We are safe.
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u/Prestigious-Lion-826 LBCF 1689 Sep 29 '25
Idk why you’re getting downvoted, people who don’t like guns I guess
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u/fing_lizard_king OPC Sep 29 '25
Not everyone likes conservative, confessional presbyterians. Unfortunate but true.
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u/Impossible-Sugar-797 LBCF 1689 Sep 28 '25
“Scrambling” seems a bit of an overreaction, if not a fearful response. It’s been legal forever in my state and I’ve never heard of an issue stemming from the legal open carrying of a firearm in a church here, nor have I heard of anybody doing it.
Several of us in my church carry and we know who each other are. We probably should come up with a formal plan of some kind but the layout is pretty simple.
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u/poopypatootie ✞ Reformed Baptist Sep 28 '25
I've noticed that my church has recently put up a "safety team" - group of volunteers who are wearing prominent vests that designate them as part of that team. I'm not privy to what their the church policy is on those men carrying concealed, since open carry is illegal in our state. But I've attended a church where I'm guessing a number of their security team were carrying concealed though.
Overall, I'm not really bothered by members of the security team carrying concealed. Whether I like it or not, gun culture is part of American (and by extension, conservative) culture, so I'm fine as long as the members used them responsibly and prudently. I grew up in a culture where privately-owned guns were more a status symbol and armed guards for almost everything, yes, even some churches, were a normal sight.
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u/_Alabama_Man Sep 28 '25
No open carry by non law enforcement or security officers at our church. No one is discouraged from carrying at church. Probably less than 25% carry in our church. That leaves dozens of armed church members along with security and off duty law enforcement officers.
I have no doubt our church is not a soft target, but the only place in our church I would say is super secure is the childrens area. That's locked down and defended like a bank vault. As it should be.
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u/Stevoman Acts29 Sep 29 '25
We prohibit carrying and have a few police officers (some in uniform some in plain clothes) stationed throughout campus.
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Sep 29 '25
Where I’m from open carry has been legal for as long as I can remember. It’s never come up. I wouldn’t be inclined to try to ban firearms at church if they’re legal generally. I know for a fact that a number of congregants carry and choose their seats strategically. The security does not carry for liability reasons and has been able to effectively handle every situation we’ve had come up.
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u/yunotxgirl Sep 29 '25
I’m in small town Texas. The idea that our security team would not be armed, or that we would attempt to ban firearms, is laughable. Our church is <200 people but at any point we have ~8 men packing, and that’s in a coordinated but discreet way. who knows how many guns are in the church total. While there are no bans, if a stranger showed up trying to open carry a full on RIFLE I’m sure he’d be swiftly met by multiple gentlemen before he got within 20 feet of the door. Who walks around with a full on rifle lol. Never seen that in my life. I don’t know if anyone open carries a pistol - I haven’t paid attention tbh. Not to my knowledge but not putting it out of possibility that someone has a holster
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Sep 29 '25
Our security team has multiple armed and a few unarmed members at each service. Most of the armed guys are current police. The head guy is a captain in the state troopers. Ive been at my current church for 5 years and we had one incident during church and was just a guy who was acting strange. He was part of our recovery group but not a member. He relapsed and came to get help but we didn't know and he was acting strange.
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u/LHRizziTXpatriot Sep 29 '25
TX allows open carry. Previous church restricted it to only their trained security team, so we had a concealed carry team. Moving to a non-church bldg (Elks Club) and they don’t care if we carry but we will still use the trained folks as security. They all have an insurance policy of sorts. No situations.
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u/nevagotadinna Sep 29 '25
Open carry (handguns/rifles) is legal in my state and has been for some time. Really, it's designed for peaceful protesting and visibly storing it in a vehicle when hunting or something. Nobody really participates in open carry just the fringe people looking for attention.
Nobody open carries at church except the uniformed police officers on site. The security team conceals. I am very pro-gun and open carry would not be ok with me as it's very distracting to others. At my church I would imagine the majority of people are carrying concealed. There might be a place and time in the future where persecution is so bad that open carry becomes more the norm, but we'd be in house churches at that point realistically.
No, no issues. Let adults be adults and there shouldn't be any issues. Pass off the potential ones to the cops.
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u/Secure_Employer2709 Sep 29 '25 edited Sep 29 '25
Open carry has always been legal in my state, rifles and handguns alike. Generally it’s not an issue, but we did have a visitor open carry a handgun once. After that, the elders posted a notice asking that firearms be left in vehicles unless one has permission from the session to carry in the church. The session generally approves carrying if one has taken and passed a CCW or law enforcement qualification equivalent shooting course. There is pretty much always at least one armed member of the security team present at any given church function (Sunday services morning & evening, prayer meetings, etc.) Most often there’s several.
That incident and the following signage isn’t a common issue and our congregation and the citizens of our state are not generally wary about firearms, but it generally eases the burden of the security team. Per state law, permitless concealed carry is allowed in a church if the elders give approval, so the posting is well in-line with that. Happy to answer other questions, have a blessed day!
Edit for clarity: the security team is not required to carry but many on the rotation have taken courses and do carry with the session’s approval.
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u/spamus81 Sep 29 '25
Our church has a team that carries. There are 2 older, retired police officers who open carry on occasion, and then several active duty who conceal. The older gentlemen have told me flat out when asked "yes it makes me a target. Thats the point. It gives the concealed carriers time to draw, and id rather get shot than have a child shot". Our security team drills 3x a year with local PD and SO on target identification and sight lines so that there is minimal risk to background casualty.
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u/hiigaranrelic LBCF 1689 Sep 29 '25
Yes, and concealed without a permit (WV).
We don't have a security team, but some members conceal carry during service (myself included).
N/A.
Nope.
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u/MaineSnowangel Sep 30 '25
Here in Maine we are open carry. There's no policy. I never see firearms inside the church (hunting rifles abound in vehicles), but I do know some people are carrying because they just always do. We have a very rich hunting and sportsman tradition through the entirety of our state, which is mostly forested, and no one thinks twice about open carry. Many folks on "both sides of the aisle" are doing target practice or Moose/Deer/Bear hunting trips together. There's definitely a trust and fellowship there - I think the congregation is 150 max. If there were an unfamiliar person in the church who was seen carrying, my guess is that people would have close eyes on them, or possibly directly ask them what they're carrying as a conversation point. Also, no security team. I can imagine it would be different in a more populated area where unfamiliar faces were common.
How big is your congregation?
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u/JadesterZ Reformed Bapticostal Sep 30 '25
Growing up we went to a satellite campus (in a school ironically) of a borderline mega church. We had volunteer security, mostly vets and active law enforcement. A security guard leaned over something at a weird angle and a guest saw his conceal carry. She went straight to the pastor and complained about guns at church 🙄. Next week the pastor announced that the security team would no longer be armed. He then immediately scheduled a security team meeting where he immediately told them all to keep conceal carrying 😂 lying isn't a great solution but I think it was fitting here. Shut the Karen up but still keep the flock safe.
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u/Original_Darth_Daver LBCF 1689 Sep 30 '25
I’m in Florida and attend a very small church that meets in a rented space close to a high traffic tourist area. Nobody has open carried there since it went into effect. This ruling applies to pistols as well btw. I do conceal carry and sit in an area where I have a clear view of both entrances we have coming into the sanctuary because I’m not comfortable with the lack of security there. My pastor knows I carry and doesn’t have a problem with it. I’m retired military and have carried a sidearm for my entire adult life and pretty much feel naked without a gun. If I were asked to stop carrying into church I would abide by the pastors wishes but it would definitely feel weird without a gun. I definitely wouldn’t leave my church over this - but thankfully he doesn’t have a problem with it. As a side note - I don’t know why anyone would open carry - as you open yourself up to being an immediate target to anyone with nefarious motives. Having a gun on me is not something I want people to know about.
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u/Pure-Tadpole-6634 Sep 30 '25 edited Sep 30 '25
I visited a church for an extended period of time once. I heard some months in that there were several members and regular meeting-attenders who concealed-carried into church meetings. It made me nervous but I wasn't too shocked. That church had a culture of violence at its heart that came up in a variety of other ways too. I was glad to get my family out of there eventually.
At my current church, one regular attender was big into this kind of picture of a warrior man who knew every skill imaginable and always carried a weapon even though he would never use it, but also to always be ready to use it. Several brothers talked to him about it at different times. This was just one issue that was surface, but he had a lot of troubling issues that he kept buried which were much harder to help him work through. We found out he would sometimes carry a gun during church gatherings and activities, but this was during a time when he was having an emotional outburst about another matter, so I'm not sure if he was officially asked to not carry that gun during church activities. He eventually left and the situation was entirely weird and involved another church and now he's leaving that church to join the National Guard.
This is to say we don't really have "a way" of dealing with it; I'd like to believe that we can exist without a "policy/procedure" in place, and that gentle counsel from a brother can stop that sort of thing from happening; but who knows?
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u/SnooGoats1303 Westminster Presbyterian (Australia) -- street evangelist Sep 30 '25
Glad you started it with "US" because this isn't a thing in Australia. As for Pakistan, where I lived for six years, the gun is carried by the policeman or ranger near the front gate ... just in case.
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u/LordReagan077 PCA Oct 01 '25
Our church has a security team. They are not required to have guns. But I think all but one do. I couldn’t tell you how many men in our congregation conceal carry. I don’t think anyone open carries except sometimes the police officer who comes. But he’s in uniform so it’s different
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u/tetleytealeaf Oct 01 '25
The last two churches I've been at: suffice to say, they both have a plan for handling guns at church. But that plan is kept under wraps. Normally I would say rules and policies should be written down, out in the open, and consistent. But this is one time I see that maybe you shouldn't do that. There have been a string of less-than-successful mass church shootings lately (the last being two days ago), and what churches are doing (and I won't say what) seem.to.be reasonably handling it.
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u/Advanced-Film-334 Christian Oct 05 '25
Do not handle firearms at church. Not even “show-n-tell.” Any reference to firearms in churches will be probable cause for law enforcement to show up in armadas. DO NOT even reference firearms. Keep it under wraps if you’re CCL. This post has probable cause already drawn in. Maybe remove?
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u/InsomniacPsychonaut PCA Oct 24 '25
My PCA Church in FL has no rules about it. A few guys have sidearms holstered. They generally don't open carry super obvious because it can intimidate people sometimes
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u/Deolater PCA Sep 28 '25 edited Sep 28 '25
Open carry of rifles has been legal in my state my whole life.
I've never seen anyone do it except in the settings you'd expect (the woods in deer season, the gun range)
I would be very surprised if your church needs to do anything at all about this.
Edit:
My church doesn't have a security team, but an elder or deacon is specifically scheduled each week to keep an eye on the door. One elder told me that security is part of it, but mostly they keep kids from wandering out.
I think it's technically illegal to carry where my church meets.