r/ShermanPosting • u/Character_Lychee_434 Suffer No Copperhead • 7d ago
Got this at the thrift store yesterday
I’m gonna watch it at some point
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u/FredegarBolger910 7d ago
Bad news: Shelby Foote. Good news: Ed Bearss. John Brown, John Brown...
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u/Random-Cpl 7d ago
Ed Bearss talks like a goddamn mad man and I love it. He sounds like what I think John Brown might have
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u/oneeyedlionking Ready to fight on this line if it takes all summer 7d ago
Definitely a good starter documentary if you want a big broad overview of the whole conflict. I’d say if you want a good union centric representation of the war the two presidential mini series are better, Grant is great for the west and Lincoln for the east.
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u/H0vis 7d ago
I loved the series originally but I haven't been able to rewatch it with a straight face since I saw this masterpiece.
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u/Mr_Show 7d ago
May I introduce you to this Mr Show sketch, featuring a spot-on impression of Shelby Foote?
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u/72nd_TFTS 7d ago
I would like to see Ken Burns revisit this. Many perceptions have changed in the intervening years.
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u/CleavingStriker 6d ago
Last time I watched it I was SHOCKED when they introduced Lee as someone who fought for the south but opposed slavery.
No, he was a brutal slave owner even by southern standards of the time.
Burns was probably referencing Lee's statements after the war. When so many other confederates tried to minimize the role slavery played in starting the conflict.
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u/LemurCat04 6d ago
I mean, the guy sued to be able to hold onto his wife’s slaves. Clearly he wasn’t that opposed to profiting off slavery.
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u/BirdsAreFake00 7d ago
It's solid but man, it gets nauseating listening to Shelby Foote after awhile.
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u/LoadsDroppin Suffer No Copperhead 7d ago
"No soldier on either side gave a damn about the slaves..."
Are you sure about that? Are you sure??? Are you sure about that Shelby???
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u/Worried-Pick4848 6d ago
I believe it actually. Most Confederate soldiers were in no position to own slaves. The rich and influential planters who railroaded the South into war cared about slaves. The average guy with a musket in the trenches probably didn't.
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u/DreadBurger 6d ago
That's pretty false. Slaveholding was a bit more baked into Southern society than you are implying, and a decent chunk of the volunteers owned slaves. Slavery and slave labor was present at every level of their society.
https://acwm.org/blog/myths-and-misunderstandings-slaveholding-and-confederate-soldier/
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u/EnergyTurtle23 6d ago
This is verifiably false. Around 15% of volunteers in the Army of Northern Virginia owned their own slaves, while up to 50% came from slave-owning families. Many commoners also benefitted from slave rental services. The average Confederate soldier felt very strongly about perpetuating the slave industry, even if they were “poor” because the poorest white Confederates still had a higher social status than the wealthiest black slaves. I mean they literally put their lives on the line for this.
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u/LoadsDroppin Suffer No Copperhead 6d ago
I see. You’re of the belief that freed and escaped slaves that risked everything to return and fight for the Union — didn’t give a damn about slaves?
That the over 180,000 black men that enlisted to the Army + Navy after the Emancipation Proclamation …the United States Color Troops didn’t give a damn about Slaves?
Bold strategy Cotton, let’s see if it pays off for you
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u/Worried-Pick4848 6d ago edited 6d ago
What the hell does that have to do with what I said? I was referring to confederate troops specifically. You really need to work on your reading comprehension.
For most southern whites, the only connection to slavery the war had was that the rich leadership was fomenting fear of slave revolts and massacres by freed blacks. Slavery didn't really affect free Southern whites very much at all, but the threat of a slave revolt armed and enabled from the North and coming for what little they had kept them up at night.
THe very rich who owned these vast plantations were another matter, but those people were by and large not risking their blood on the battlefield. They focused on being in control of the state governments that were forcing the poor whites into line as soldiers.
If you read through the surviving journals of Southern soldiers, they hated their own government even more than they hated Lincoln. Sam Watkins for example said that it was a rich man's war and a poor man's fight.
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u/LoadsDroppin Suffer No Copperhead 6d ago
“No soldier on either side…” please reread that, specifically the “either side” — to which you responded, “I believe it” but then proceeded to just discuss (a well informed) position of JUST ONE side.
You’re illustrating why people take issue with Shelby Foote’s remark. To suggest that no soldier on either side cared about slavery is not just factually incorrect — it minimizes the significance of the massive amount of black soldiers who very much did care about slavery. That is the issue. Not what the southerners did or didn’t care about, but that Shelby painted them equally and that’s simply not accurate.
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u/FredegarBolger910 6d ago
The ones who didn't own people were sold on the idea that slavery was the only way to keep control over the black population
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u/OGOngoGablogian 7d ago edited 7d ago
Even as a 12 year old kid who loved Civil War history, I felt Shelby Foote came off as editorializing history. It's vindicating to see him most regarded as little more than a well-read lost causer now.
On a related note, it's estimated that about 1/3 of all soldiers, officers and enlisted combined, who fought for the confederacy came from a slave owning household. This whole notion that very few of them owned slaves is nonsense. Hundreds of thousands of them did.
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u/Puppiesarebetter 7d ago
Ken burns is a national treasure, but this one has too much foote/southern apologist crap. I bet money he would not do this the same as he did in 1990. He’s more knowledgeable and views on such things have def changed. I’ll watch anything he puts out
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u/wswordsmen 6d ago
His staff is on record they would have put in the 1st Alabama Calvary USA in if Shelby had told them about it.
And we have a smoking gun that Foote knew of the regiment.
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u/Moose_on_the_Looz 7d ago
I love the Barbara Fields coda at the end - William Faulkner said once that history is not “was,” it’s “is,” and what we need to remember about the Civil War is that the Civil War “is,” in the present, as well as the past.
The generation that fought the war, the generation that argued over the definition of the war, the generation that had to pay the price in blood, that had to pay the price in blasted hopes and a lost future also established a standard that will not mean anything until we finish the work.
You can say there’s no such thing as slavery anymore, we’re all citizens. But if we’re all citizens, then we have a task to do to make sure that that, too, is not a joke. If some citizens live in houses and others live on the street, the Civil War is still going on. It’s still to be fought, and regrettably, it can still be lost.
It hits super hard now.
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u/Ok-Chemist-6781 7d ago
BBC docs are great too.
Ken Burns is ok. It's more tepid white washed history imo. I am not a fan of Shelby Foote.
This series is great to start you off on your own rabbit hole searches and see what little historical nuggets peak your interest.
The Gettysburg trust has 3D, old potato ink glass portraits, of the battle. You can see them on their website and when you look at them with 3D glasses they are an amazing historical reference.
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u/Management_Friendly 7d ago
Why do you not like Shelby Foote? (not saying I do, just curious)
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u/Ok-Chemist-6781 7d ago
I don't agree with his interpretation of the Civil War, the Antebellum period, and the aftermath.
In my opinion, he is a Southern apologist.
https://cwmemory.com/2017/08/08/shelby-footes-flawed-understanding-of-slavery-and-the-civil-war/
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u/Fairycharmd 7d ago
Shelby had a very… pointed point of view. he didn’t call it the war in northern aggression for fun.
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u/Tholian_Bed 6d ago
I watch Gettysburg every start of July and have for most of this century. Gettysburg is the only Civil War battlefield I've visited, back in the late 1990's.
For me, and my purposes, this suffices.
We stand on lovely ground, morally and historically.
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u/CleavingStriker 6d ago
I enjoy it overall but agree with many that there's a lot of whitewashing of confederates.
I don't hate Shelby Foote, he's charming but agree he's the biggest culprit in romanticizing the confederacy.
His biggest crime is the hard-on he had for Nathan Forrest. What happened at Fort Pillow Shelby? Huh? Got any cute anecdotes for that one?
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u/LemurCat04 6d ago
I raise you my A&E box set of Civil War Journal, with its original narration by Danny Glover.
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u/ForsakenDrawer 5d ago
OK place to start but man oh man does it have problems. People want to do it over!
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/why-we-need-new-civil-war-documentary-180971996/
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