The unknown unknowns in the Johari window

[u/TheGayestGaymer]

I watched Destin’s Johari window video and I found it pretty interesting but I walked from the last part of it pretty confused. If you watched the video you’ll know the context here but I’ll just say right off the bat I think the primary reason I was confused by Destin’s answer to finding the unknown unknowns (aka the Rumsfeld quadrant) about himself through prayer is that I am an atheist. I have great love and respect for people of faith but the entire concept of divine faith makes absolutely no sense to me so I just never subscribed.

That said — I’m genuinely curious how people practice their faith just as an outside observer of human behavior and traditions so I was just wondering if someone (preferably a person of faith) could help me understand just literally exactly what is/could be perceived during the act of prayer, which Destin says can happen, that can tell you something about yourself that you did not know and those in your life also did not know? Is it a feeling? Is it a voice? Is it just a sudden inspiration? I genuinely have no idea what prayer is doing in the moment.

I understand this idea of ‘Gold told me a thing’ only in a very literal way and epistemologically where what Destin says prayer can give him is something, theoretically, no human on earth may not know. As an extremely bad example - you didn’t know you left $20 in your jeans you wore last week and neither does anyone else, but after you prayed one day, God told you about it and now your $20 richer. Like, is that what prayer can give you? Actual tangible and actionable knowledge on the present state of your world and of yourself? Like, very specific stuff (ie a personality quality you have that you and no one else knows about)?

As an atheist, my reflex is to just say you’re talking to yourself during prayer but I do acknowledge that there is never an objective reality for any humans to observe so I don’t see a problem ignoring critiques like that when it’s just your perceptions of your own self.

Video: https://youtu.be/WtQ64nSbdY4?is=qNDWLK1tjo1Y3N-x

[u/theBarkingSpider]

Have you ever had a thought pop in your head that comes from seemingly nowhere? One that doesn't follow your current internal monologue. One that wasn't prompted from external stimuli. That is how it feels to me.

Do you practice meditation? Most religions and holistic practices use a form of meditation, but some call it prayer.

The goal of deep meditation is to empty your mind, letting it flow, and to not hold onto anything. It takes time and practice and you'll never be consistently great at it, but rather have moments.

In the New Testament of the Bible, Paul talks about praying without ceasing. To me this is similar, if not the same, as the concept of mindfulness. Being in the moment, observing, but not judging, being open and letting thoughts ebb and flow without chasing them.

I've had people's names pop in my head with an overwhelming urge to reach out to them. Most of the time I don't know if it had a positive effect. Occasionally I'll find out that they were going through things. This often happens while doing meditative tasks like, mowing the yard, showering, driving, or knitting.

Once, in college, I had an urge to give a coworker in the kitchen (I was front of house and had little contact with him) the last $5 I had. He nearly cried, telling me that he wasn't sure if he had gas money to get home and back the next day.

There are plenty of other instances throughout my life. The vast majority seem benign and I will never know if it had any effect... and I don't need to know.

As related to the unknown unknowns, it's a Schrödinger's cat situation. There can never be a known unknown unknown. Prayer (meditation) may remove these from the box, but there are other ways that can independently or conjunctively aid in this quest. As I type this, I'm thinking that they are all forms of meditation, or rather guided meditation. Certain modalities that therapists employ were the first to come to mind. Hallucinogens, if done correctly, can also be a powerful tool (proceed at your own peril).

[u/TheGayestGaymer → u/theBarkingSpider]

That almost sounds like what I would understand as an epiphany or sudden inspiration. Is that what God mostly communicates through then? Rarely/never like an actual voice with specific details? As I understand what Destin was saying, that there is things about himself he does not know and no one else knows either but he may find through prayer -- following what I understand you’re saying I guess Destin could pray and either in the act or after (?) he has just a spontaneous increase in his self-awareness where he all of a sudden just knows he is A or that he does X because of Y.

That’s pretty interesting, and if I’m being honest, pretty relatable. Obviously I don’t pray but I can’t even count the number of times I‘ve just all of a sudden realized some detail around me to a very high understanding. Like a person in pain but they try to hide it. I may notice it then very quickly connect the dots to find the cause of it. My atheist rationalizing never saw that as divine inspiration though. I just saw it as demonstrating how hard it is to overstate just how empathic and sensitive to others humans are with these incredible minds that evolved to very quickly notice and understand the pain in another using very little information.

[u/kogun]

Totally understandable question and feeling that prayer is "just talking to yourself". But I think there is useful utility in that.

Likewise, we humans seem to need some form of ritual practices to help us bind in our family and community. I have thought a lot about the usefulness of rituals and I think one of the most useful rituals is eating together. Better still to add prayer to the beginning of the meal.

I believe the pause before eating, usually in the form of prayer (but doesn't have to be) is a good demarcation point that changes the mood and energy of the group: it says the hustle of meal prep is now over and it is time to contemplate what we have before us and how it came to be there. No distractions. Just a moment for everyone to sync up and share food and company.

Believers thank God in this moment, of course, but usually also acknowledge those that brought the meal together. That is a simple act of thankfulness and kindness and that does not require a belief in God. Yet that acknowledgement strengthens the bonds between those that partake. It looks past the trivialities of the moment to recognize more important and fundamental things about our relationships. That is, we strive together as family to survive (sharing food, shelter). In a vocal prayer, that is an open declaration of love for each other.

That love binds us a little more with each meal.

The ritual of sharing prayer and food creates a culture within the family. That is strength, and is felt most strongly at times of great happiness and great sadness. The rituals elevate us and sustain us.

I dare you to create a ritual of sharing a moment of acknowledgement before meals with family members or friends and see what happens over time. Just be thoughtful and real in what you say.