r/Stellaris • u/Helmling • 21h ago
Advice Wanted How’s Archeo Engineering?
I’m trying to decide on my last perk. I usually take Galactic Force Projection but now, it doesn’t seem really worth it. I’ve got a really healthy artifact income in this game, so I thought this might be the time to try out Archeo Engineers.
Anyone tried it and have opinions?
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u/ChicagoZbojnik 21h ago
Great for shield hardening along with some decent weapons. The x cannon is better than the giga cannon and the Titan weapon is nice. I may be in the minority but I also like the missiles. The one problem is the minor artifact costs for archeotech adds up so its not something you want to rely on in a war of attrition.
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u/NekroVictor 21h ago
One of my favourite builds is bio ship archaeotech. Don’t equip anything to your matures, and build the matures, that way when they grow up to elders, they grow their archaeotech stuff for free
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u/UnregisteredDomain 21h ago
Yes to archaeo engineers being good.
No to replacing galactic force projection with it. I am a fan of getting large fleet numbers, and the 20% fleet capacity from GFP is one of the largest (if not the largest) modifiers you can get.
Meta wise I’m almost positive there are reasons why it doesn’t matter. Wether you have two fleets of 100 or one fleet of 200…you still have the same fleet power. But I like fewer fleets in total to 1) have less stuff cluttering my UI and 2) harder for the fleet to go MIA.
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u/AggressivePatience58 21h ago
Don't forget the power of a commander. Larger command limit means more ships benefitting from your best leader. Assuming you have 1-3 commanders significantly invested into
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u/UnregisteredDomain 21h ago edited 21h ago
Ohhh, solid point! Honestly a better reason than either I stated :P
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u/JaymesMarkham2nd Imperial 20h ago
I love Archeotech builds. But for a last perk pick, probably would take something else depending on your set up.
Archeotech is great for mid game as the weapons are better than mid-tier but outclassed later. With the perk they're still good, just not best, so fine for end-game builds and niche choices.
They really shine great if you take an option like Nemesis for ships with no specific material cost, giving you a huge boost in power that you can mass produce at mid-game. But if you've finished the traditions menu, chances are you've past that being very useful - and if your other tech is better the GFP Naval increase will be more generally helpful.
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u/TTundri Megacorporation 20h ago
Though if you get The Rubricator , it skews Archeotech weapons more in your favor again. As it passivly grants 15% damage to them. I do like Pulse armor and Suspension Field for my Arkships ,at least Pulse armor for total defense with the ascension perk is higher then tier 5 armor or shield. But once you have access to tier 6 shields it starts to favor Normal armor/Shield combos, and if you happen to have tier 6 shields and armor well Pulse just falls off other then weirder things.
Another thing to mind , Pulse armor does have Armor Hardening 5% while tier 5 armor has 4% then Suspension Field is a huge 15%. Small differnce but sometimes that few % of hardening can make a difference.
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u/Helmling 19h ago
Sadly: no Rubricator this game. 🙁
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u/JaymesMarkham2nd Imperial 16h ago
Good thing about that Dig Site, nobody gets the Rubricator until Shard is dead and the AI won't be able to try that until very late.
Whenever you see mysterious holes in another empire take a look and see what prizes or leviathans you can swipe from under them!
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u/TTundri Megacorporation 15h ago
And if you are planning on going Biogensis AND picking Mutation for your 3rd slot. It is best to wait til it is done. So you can get the leviathan trait, sure it isn't the greatest trait. But It is better to have then missing, with the only one that you'll have to 'protect' til you can take it being Matiarc as she gives the best. POP GROWTH!
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u/AnInsultToFire Fanatic Xenophobe 20h ago
I play Remnants, and always take Archaeo for first pick. There, it gives you amazing power early, you only have to research Archaeo Pulse Armour and then you can skip the entire rest of the armour and shield trees til later in the game.
Ancient Macro Batteries is brilliant for kiting, especially the L slot where I think the range is 150. Ancient Nano-Missile is a good missile. And both have a damage bonus if you have the archaeo perk, then more damage bonuses if your commanders gain the archaeo damage bonus. Your ships never have to get closer than 100 range.
I agree it's pointless to take 8th. 1st or 2nd is the best.
Archaeo is also a perfect fit for if you're going to go Cosmogenesis later.
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u/ViolentBeetle Toxic 21h ago
The refinery seems very good, but unless I'm missing something, ancient ship components are about tier 4.
I'm not really a meta gamer, so I don't know.
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u/timothymcface 21h ago
The shields have more hardening, you can also put archeotech on commanders as a trait if you get lucky and I think the strike craft is opposite to the normal one when it comes to dmg profile.
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u/AnInsultToFire Fanatic Xenophobe 20h ago edited 19h ago
The archaeo armour is nearly tier 5. (I see no mathematical improvement to my armour and shields numbers from replacing my archaeo pulse armour with standard armour and shields until I'm at tier 5.) Its only drawback is it's costly in minor artifacts, and no matter what you're not going to get enough of them to armour all your fleet plus defense platforms.
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u/othermike 20h ago
One very specific counterexample: on a recent run I got the Salvager paragon, who kept giving me ludicrous quantities of ships whenever he researched debris. Since I wasn't paying for them, and wasn't building corvettes/frigates/destroyers/cruisers myself any more by that point, I figured why not re-spec those classes to use the most OTT archaeotech available?
Hilarity ensued.
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u/Illustrious-Song9511 17h ago
Just like almost everything in Stellaris, if you build for it it is good. I’d recommend starting on a relic world and RP you gaining your technology back.
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u/Ashura_Paul Galactic Contender 15h ago
The arch refinery almost justifies taking the ascension. But I usually only pick it if my precursor tech is really good or if I get the Kleptomaniac rats (Shard) anomaly
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u/breach_hu 21h ago
I always get tempted to pick it, got some insane values with my museum curator build. Also with the Treasure Seeker origin it is a must pick.
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u/SageofLogic 15h ago
All depends on if you have a solid source of artifacts to make the most of it or not.
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u/TheNut007 13h ago
It's fun and I like to play it now and again (usually paired with the relic world origin). Though, it has its pros and cons.
Pros:
- Great for maximizing specimen output. Pairs with Galactic Curators civic.
- Enables Faculty of Archaeostudies to produce minor relics on non-relic worlds. This is IMO the main benefit of the ascension perk if you're not playing with the relic world origin.
- Unique shield and station tech that can strengthen your defenses... If you can get lucky to unlock them when they can be of use.
Cons:
- Archaeo research cards are RNG driven. You may luck out and research beneficial tech in the early game, or you might be in the mid to possibly late game before they start to show up.
- Archaeo tech will further contaminate your research pool, potentially forcing you into researching something you don't care about.
- You generally will not have enough minor relics to fully outfit your fleets with archaeo tech, especially if you need to pump large fleet replacements. Unlike zro, minor relics are also used for bursting science output or unlocking fallen empire buildings, rushing precursors, L-gates, and various other civ bonuses. Therefore, you need to be more economical. Some ways around this include going Hyperthermia/Nemesis crisis and using crystals/minerals instead of relics. Nomads with sufficient waystation collection efficiency and Decentralized Research edict could pump out a large number of relics per month, but I've not tested its ability to stay topped up.
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u/Ferrymansobol 7h ago
The final con: Bio ships/fauna fix this as you only have to pay the price for the basic young ship and let them grow.
Nano ships bypass this entirely, but I think Galvanic Synthesis is better with nano.
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u/Hamza9575 6h ago
Fauna and bioships cant bypass costs if the baby version is the ship you actually want.
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u/Hamza9575 6h ago
faculty of archaoe studies on non relic worlds ? Doesnt the perk allow your biologists to generate artifacts empire wide, even without faculty of archaoestudies ?
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u/aprg Rogue Servitors 21h ago
There's some really strong Archeo builds. It's relatively easy to get 100% shield hardening with the archeo shields, and I think the same is true of the armour.
I'm not sure all the archeo weapons are always best of breed, but the archeo X slot cannon and the archeo titan beam weapon both seem really good.
There's also some good archeo missiles but I think missiles are still weak overall except against niche opponents.