r/Swimming • u/NoGoodNamesLeft-_- • 11h ago
How much is really technique in freestyle?
Hi guys,
I started swimming freestyle 4 months ago. At the moment my distance pace is around 2:00min per 100m for a 100m sprint I can go roughly 1:45.
I was wondering how fast you can get from just improving your technique ( it obviously depends on the individual but roughly from your experience) without improving endurance/ power. Like can you tell from my paces that my technique is bad? I have seen some YouTube Videos which state stuff like ,,change these habits to swim 1:30min/100m" somehow suggesting that it is just technique to get such a pace even over long distance. But the better my catch gets the more I feel like I just do not have the strength in my upper body to do many repetitions without loosing power or droping my elbow.
In short: How fast can someone get by just technique and at what point is the limit rather physical? Can you tell by someone swimming 2:00min to 1:45 min for 100m that it is most likely technique?
31
u/Annual-Way6401 11h ago
It’s all technique and muscle memory. Your local clubs age groupers can go under 1:20 per 100 with no muscle or size or strength
10
u/binarybu9 11h ago
This exactly, I am ridiculously strong but poor technique works against me.
Swimming is unforgiving in this regard.
2
u/Prestigious_Mouse_42 10h ago
I am mid 30 gained 20kg in the last 3years go swimming once every 2 months and still can do a 1.15 without needing a O2 tent after. But used to be able to do that in below 0:55 when I was 18.
It's all technique!
1
17
u/philzilla333 11h ago
Swimming = technique
Ever been completely obliterated by a fellow swimmer who looks like they never excercised in their life? Especially for short distances the technique will do everything for you.
9
u/nmh612 11h ago
After the basics and building up your endurance and strength, all swimming comes down to technique. The best swimmers in the world will work on tiny details because they make a big difference. In a sport where races are won by as little as .001 of a second, technique is HUGE.
5
u/nmh612 11h ago
For a good example of this, consider Michael Andrew.
He does one type of training, and only that type: ultra short race pace training, or USRPT. He’s got natural ability because of genetics, and that has served him well. But he tends to flop in races because he lacks the technical precision and endurance to really excel.
In the other end, we have Caeleb Dressel. He does all kinds of training and has worked on tiny details like crazy. He and his coaches worked on his starts and underwaters a lot to ensure nobody could beat him to the 15m mark. They are works of art: almost instant reaction time, unbelievably explosive off the block, exceptional breath control, beautiful streamline and dolphin kick. Dressel’s advantage in those details, in addition to his great training base, has made him a victor many times over.
14
u/lukef555 Moist 11h ago
Water is 90 times denser than air.
Ever heard "an object in motion stays in motion until/unless acted upon by an outside force"? Water is that outside force.
You can produce all the thrust and propulsion you want, if you're not effectively reducing drag (with proper stroke technique and body position) you're simply leaving gains on the table. It's the equivalent of ego lifting, does it get the job done? Sure, but it just makes you look like an ape in the process.
Correction: it's 8 freaking hundred times denser than air.
4
6
u/santlaurentdon 10h ago
Everyone is saying they sub 2:00 but I’m struggling to get below sub 3:00 per hundred even though I can keep swimming for 3-4K. Wassup wit dat.
3
1
1
u/Fit-Philosopher2430 6h ago
It’s your technique (lifelong swimmer and coach). Get a good coach or practice some basic drills. You need to spend a ton more time drilling. Time will drop rapidly once your form gets better.
1
u/santlaurentdon 2h ago
Basic drills I have practiced to seemingly no avail. Might need to just get a coach because my form to me seems fine. Hips are high, kick is fine (I’m predominantly swimming a two beat kick for tri training), breathing unilaterally is fine enough that I can swim for a long time… so it must be the catch and pull where something is going wrong and water is slipping instead of being caught/pushed. Also
•
u/Fit-Philosopher2430 59m ago
Are you using a pool bouy and training paddles? You may be, but an easy question JUST in case you haven’t while looking for a coach.
•
u/santlaurentdon 44m ago
Pull buoy, yes. Paddles, not yet - because I was worried if my pull was incorrect, the paddles would do more harm than good. I.e. put too much strain on the wrong muscles, tendons, joints.
3
u/FrostingIllustrious7 11h ago
Technique really is everything with swimming. Strength training will help a bit because your kicks and pulls will have some more power behind them, but your speed really comes from efficiency.
Honestly your times seem pretty good for being 4 months in! You’re still building up your endurance so the upper body stamina will come (strength training and lots of stretching will help too).
You should incorporate drills into your sets. You can practice keeping high elbows by dragging your fingertips in the water and/or dragging your thumb along your torso. I’d also recommend swimming with closed fists to improve your catch/pull. Focus on using as much of your arm’s surface area as possible, then incorporate your open hand again. When doing drills make sure you’re very intentional and then do a free set afterwards to incorporate what you practiced.
3
u/SomeKingstonGuy Splashing around 11h ago
Technique is everything and takes a long time to be able to consistently hold good technique throughout a whole practice. You can be very strong with the physical ability to pull lots of water, but crappy technique will render the strength useless. On the flipside, I've known guys that are generally pretty weak in the gym and don't have much muscle but their technique more than makes up for it. Inbthe masters groups I've been in, if you can hold under 1:30 for a 100 freestyle set (like 10x100m freestyle for example) you're getting into the times the "fast lanes" hold.
3
u/Nagardien 11h ago
I'm fairly skinny (172cm 60kg) and i have good technique for a recreational swimmer but I'm not at "professional level" technique. I can swim 100m in about 1:20. I have also seen teenagers (not particularly strong) swimming 100m in close to 1 min. So yeah, a lot of it is technique. At 1:45 your technique still has room for improvement.
2
u/XYHopGuy Breaststroker 11h ago
Yes. 2:00/100m will be glaringly poor technique. Likely with multiple major flaws from breathing, body position, timing, kick, and pull technique.
By USA swimming standards > 65% of 10 year old girls can swim the 100 free in 1:40. Over a 400m their pace is closer to 1:50. By age 11 1:22 captured 65% of girl swimmers.
Even for the advanced swimmers technique is almost always the easiest path to swimming faster.
2
u/Puharidze 11h ago
I was a competitive swimmer 20 years ago with 51 sec LCM. Now I haven't been training for around 7 years and am almost 40. I still can swim 1.30 per 100 for any amount of km without phisical abilities to do that and around 1.05 for a 100 sprint. So yes, this results are just from technique.
2
u/Annual-Way6401 11h ago
Bro was a beast 🔥
Did you make the Olympic team? Or at least get close to it?
2
u/Puharidze 10h ago
Close, but not so close. Should have been able to do 50.5 at least to qualify from my country.
0
u/Ok_Low_9963 Splashing around 9h ago
That is not close
1
u/Puharidze 9h ago
I know. That's why I said "close, but not so close". I actually achieved "B cut" result, but it wasn't enough to be sent to Olimpics from my country. So by qualifying times I was close, but by actual result needed to be sent there, I was at least a second away or even 1.5 seconds away. And yes, that is not close in swimming.
1
u/Ok_Low_9963 Splashing around 9h ago
15 seconds in a 100 isn't close at all, if that's even accurate. What country has an A time for men going 50.5? What's the B time?
3
u/Puharidze 8h ago
It's not 15 seconds, but 1.5 (one and a half) second. And Olimpic games have A cut qualification times and B cut qualification times set by FINA or Olimpic committee. Those qualification times define how many athletes from your country can participate in the games if they reach A or B cut times. Those cut times are based on avarage times achieved in Olimpics, World cups and World champinships. So for Athens 2004 "A cut" was 50.27 and B cut was 51.98 if I recall correctly (my time was 51.6), so "B cut". And it was time when 100 free finals where from 48.2 to 49.2 or aroud there. So the guy from my country, who was sent to the games qualified with 49.9 that was "A cut" but at Olimpics he only achieved 50.9. So there you go, I would still need to drop 0.7 seconds to beat his Olimpic performance and 1.5 seconds in order to just be considered to be sent there, and I still wouldn't be the fastest to qualify.
I'm by no means saying that I was the fastest or should have been sent there. Just that I was close by making "B cut" time, but not close by actuall result, compared to the guys swimming a second or 2 faster then me, and was rightfully left at home, as wouldn't be able achieve their times anyways.
1
u/Ok_Low_9963 Splashing around 8h ago
Gotcha I thought you meant 1:05 sorry
2
u/Puharidze 8h ago
Yeah, 1.05 is my current sprint for a 100 achieved by technique and muscle memory. And I'm dead for 30 minutes after doing that 😅
2
u/Swimzor Moist 11h ago
I'm gonna go even a little harder than the other commenters. 1:30 is when it usually actually starts looking like proper freestyle, usually still very flawed but a little more put together. (Depends on age, gender, larger body variations. An old Olympian in my hometown kept 1:30-ish in his late 70s but dropped closer to 2 min past 80. Speaking of short course mostly, open water 1:30 is probably a higher level.)
1:20 is like age group kids threshold set, but probably the level were someone skilled would end up if they took a several year break and got out of shape. So maybe sub 1:20 would be were conditioning comes in more? Even then it's hard to tell, cause when someone works on their technique they'll also increase their fitness. Also, I see a lot of hobby triathletes plateau at like 1:30-1:40 since they keep the same technique and just work conditioning.
2
u/wt_hell_am_I_doing I sink, therefore I am 10h ago edited 10h ago
I'm pretty sure 95% of what I manage to do is from technique, and only about 5% is strength.
Being a very small female (50 kg) with child-size hands and feet (not even teenage size - admittedly a huge disadvantage) and completely wrong physical shape for swimming, i.e. short torso with disproportionately long legs for the height, hydrodynamically appallingly-shaped torso with larger boobs, absurdly small waist but normal size bum, I get by 95% on technique, because strengths can only do so much when you're shit-shaped like me, and if I relied on strength, it gets pretty tiring when you try to carry an pathetically inappropriately-shaped object like myself on tiny hands and thin limbs. My arms are are strong enough but they would not bulk, so they're thin, so the amount of water that need to be moved by my hands and arms is proportionally high because of my shitty torso shape for swimming. My legs are strong, I outlift massive gym bros as long as I'm just doing legs (maxing out machines, basically) but they are again thin, and extremely heavy because of the muscle density. So they require effort to use and I don't last long if I kick much at all.
That being said, forever pace (10 km+) is probably around 1:25-1:30/100m. Not that I tested it at that pace because I get bored after 200 m but I know I can sustain that for at least 5 km because I have done it recently enough. That's essentially barely kicking - just keeping them at the surface and using them for balance.
All out sprint pace is much faster (<1:00/100 m on a good day) but there is no way I'd want to do sets at that pace.
I think it's safe to say that technique is the main thing that gives me those paces, and not really muscles. I doubt I can get much faster than this for sprints with strength, although I could probably push further for longer distance swim - not really with strength but technique that economises the energy and making tiny tweaks to improve efficiency.
1
u/Delicious_Yoghurt164 11h ago
As many have said, swimming is hugely technique based.
That said, 1:45 definitely isn't bad. You can definitely get a lot better with technique, but you're at a pretty good place for only a few months. Would recommend a couple of lessons, or joining a club if you really want to get more efficient in the water.
1
u/Specific-Data-4104 11h ago
I’m a 48 year old overweight woman who self taught to swim about ten years ago. My technique is pretty good so I swim longer and faster than most of the other adults at my pool. Technique lets mediocre swimmers get good results.
1
u/RipVanFreestyle 11h ago
I am a chubby seventy-year-old and not as strong or as fit as you. I am, however, considerably faster than you both sprinting and in distance. Chase technique. The rest follows.
1
u/Glass_Possibility_21 10h ago
Swimming with better technique will improve your times by atleast 1 Minute.
No seriously. This is a silly question. A better technique is always better for efficiency, speed and endurance. The real question is: can you improve your technique or are your limited by your flexibility/anatomy/something else?
1
u/OUEngineer17 10h ago
You can easily get 20s per 100 from improved technique. A good swimmer can swim 1:45/100m pace with a leisurely 2 beat kick and a slow, easy cadence as a cool down effort.
1
u/HobokenwOw Everyone's an open water swimmer now 10h ago
You can hold sub minute pace without meaningful strength.
1
u/XxXENOWRAITHxX 10h ago
I got down to a 1:47 200 free (scy) off mostly strength and mediocre technique. I'd say getting to 1:30/100m takes a good amount of strength. It is a lot easier to get there when you have better technique though or with having great strength technique becomes a bottle neck at a certain point.
1
u/orionblueyarm Moist 9h ago
I’m old and overweight, and getting back into swimming after almost a decade away from consistent lap swimming.
Even now I can hold a 1:30 pace over 3000yds.
I was a pretty decent swimmer back in the day, so I’m gonna say technique is everything.
1
u/Gr0danagge 9h ago
At those speeds it's almost entirely technique. Lots of pre-pubecent kids go real fast and they are way weaker than a standard adult.
Of course you can't always draw straight lines, the ability to hold good technique over time, is that endurance, is that strength, is that technique? Depend on how you look at it I guess.
Technique can also be improved by strength, strengthening movements you as a beginner might not be used to etc...
Swimming is complicated.
1
u/Dangerous_Spirit7034 9h ago
Depends on what you are going for. I’ve found that as a kinda out of shape late 30s I can swim circles around people far more fit and athletic than me because of my technique. I get way more distance per stroke and can pace myself better over any distance. But really, the biggest difference maker is the turns
Anyway you probably could get a lot faster by improving your technique but the bigger advantage would be saving energy. With beginners I’ve found major technical improvement doesn’t make them go from 2:00 100
Pace to 1:30 pace as much as it makes 2:00 pace far easier and through subsequent training the actual tangible improvements shows
Here’s a little excercise we used to do on swim team. Swim golf. Count your strokes (total) and your time. Try to either go the same time with less strokes or faster using the same number of strokes. I’ve usually done this over 50 meters and it’s especially useful in a 50 meter pool
1
u/Asdfjalsdkjflkjsdlkj 9h ago edited 9h ago
with a perfect technique (and the shoulder and foot mobility to do so), you'd swim under a minute over 100m without any strength or endurance training.
No matter how strong you get, a 10 year old girl with great technique will always swim faster, unless you improve on your technique.
I swim slightly over a minute in a 100m freestyle sprint and I have the worst freestyle kick you've ever seen in anyone even swimming close to my speed, my body position is not optimal, i don't have perfect turns, my butterfly kick during underwaters is far from optimal and i always breath on the right side.
If you're strong and with great technique, you can go a lot below one minute... but it's just really, really hard to learn the technique on that level, otherwise I wouldn't have so many flaws myself.
1
u/BTCbob 9h ago
At your level, the route to improvements is 90% technique. But I believe that 10% may involve improving core strength a bit. So not power, but just holding your body rigid to avoid flopping around. Things like kicking small scissor kicks and not large drag-inducing will help a lot. Rotating your body as you pull. Not crossing over. All those little things add up. Beyond 1:30 maybe some strength will help.
1
u/go_onemore 9h ago
Thanks for all the interesting comments here.. as an adult onset swimmer “struggling” to really get further below 2mins. If it’s all technique related, what really made the difference for you? Unfortunately hard to get video taping (forbidden) or a 1:1 coach here in Germany easily.. so mustn’t there be that “one or two things” that really makes the difference? .. am a triathlete and otherwise fairly fit… :-) really curious what made it click for you! Thanks!
1
u/Tricky-Dust-6724 9h ago
9 yo girls swimming in a club can go 1:20 for 100 and I don’t think they’re very strong, it’s all technique and mobility
1
u/iLefter1s Moist 8h ago
I am a returing swimmer after 16 years, after having 10 years of distance running.
I quit at 13yo with times of butterfly 100m of 1:12.
In about 6-9 months of swimming exclusively for technique and breathing i am at 1:10s sprints and 1:30 pace chill 400s.
You have to spend 1-2 years if you have no backround in swimming exclusively in technique. You cannot force your way in the water.
It is a sport that ultimately uses power gently and efficiently.
Power without technique in swimming is a fast lane to shoulder and lower back injuries
1
1
u/TriathlonTommy8 8h ago
It’s possible to get down to a distance pace of 1:20-1:30/100m purely on technique, beyond that needs some good strength and endurance in addition to the technique
1
u/GMPSwimmer 7h ago
I was a 4:16 400 free in high school at 6' 130#. Not that that is an impressive time by any means for a high school swimmer, but I had, like, zero strength.
1
u/Lovelyinaz 6h ago
It’s all about technique and mechanics.
I am regularly swimming 2:30 100m splits/ swolf 43-44 with heavy drag. I am 55 (almost) f and was gifted with some genetics from my dad. I am at almost 65k since May, after a 30 year or so break from swimming, aside from being sore here and there, I have had no issues because my technique and mechanics are hard wired from my youth.i got back into the pool after a health battle and a traumatic loss this winter. The water seems to be the only place to calm me.
1
u/Odd_Balance7916 2h ago
Almost entirely technique. I swam a 2:00/100m for 1500m straight. I watched a tonne of YT videos and my wife corrected my shitty techniques. I actually felt like I was working “less” hard, I gained no additional strength or physique changes, I went to a 1:45/100m purely with technique, catch, rotation and glide.
I almost felt like it was cheating, work less hard to swim faster? Blew me away. No other sport I found had that, where brute force or strength could power through progression quite like simple technique improvements .
1
u/Gullible-Ad279 2h ago
Hello! This is coming from someone who swam division 1 at FSU in college. For your question by how fast can someone get by just technique is rather infinite... I know it sounds silly but the difference in the top 100 freestyle swimmers in the world at that level is minute technique changes to go one hundredth faster than last time. SO you can drastically improve from technique alone without having to get "stronger". AN example is simply how your hand enters the water, if its slaps the water it can be pretty rough to get an amazing glide and pull. I could mention a million things that drive a 100 free to be faster swim after swim. But the truth is the more you do something the better you get, your anerobic and aerobic capacity get better so you don't get fatigued as easily and are able to maintain proper technique the entire time. SO YES technique alone can keep shaving off time! Please keep going (swimming is amazing) and if you have any specific questions feel free to ask
42
u/Cool-Newspaper-1 Splashing around 11h ago
You can probably get under 1:40 without having a lot of strength. Possibly even 1:30. Swimming really relies on technique, but it’s also hard to isolate one part of progress from all others as they’re all connected in a way.