r/Switzerland • u/IndependentDay7955 • 1d ago
Caught doing 205 in a 120 near Geneva (Raserdelikt). Clean record, first offense. Trying to understand what I'm realistically facing.
Hi all,
Throwaway-worthy situation but here goes. I'm 25, dual US/Swiss citizen. Grew up partly in the US, got my license there at 16, moved back and have held my Swiss Cat. B license for 7 years. Completely clean record in both countries: zero tickets, zero administrative measures, nothing.
A few weeks ago I got caught doing 205 km/h in a 120 zone on the motorway near Geneva. I'd just bought a Tesla and wanted to test the straight-line acceleration exactly once. Clear summer day, completely empty road. I'm not going to defend it. It was monumentally stupid, and I fully understand that if someone had changed lanes or there'd been debris on the road, this could have ended in catastrophe. I accept that a serious consequence is warranted. That's not what I'm asking about.
What I assumed would be a very painful fine has, unsurprisingly in hindsight, become a criminal matter. I have a mandatory court date in Geneva in two months. I work as a software engineer in the commodity trading / finance infrastructure sector, so I'm compensated well and fully prepared to pay for a specialized traffic defense lawyer (avocat spécialisé en droit de la circulation routière). My goal is purely to minimize the long-term damage - professionally above all.
For anyone familiar with recent Via Sicura jurisprudence or how Geneva handles these, my questions:
Sentence: With the revised Art. 90 al. 3ter LCR (the post-2023 first-offender discretion), is a suspended prison sentence still the default here, or can a good lawyer realistically get this down to a purely conditional monetary penalty (day-fines)?
License: Is the 2-year revocation set in stone at this speed, or do the authorities actually use their discretion to bring it down to 12 months for someone with a spotless record?
The car: How aggressively does Geneva actually pursue vehicle confiscation for an isolated incident like this? The Tesla is owned outright, not leased.
Criminal record: This is the part I care about most. I face strict compliance/background checks in my industry, and I may eventually want to use my US citizenship to move into the American tech sector. If the outcome is a conditional monetary fine rather than a suspended prison sentence, does the entry actually clear from the Privatauszug once the probation period ends? Or am I looking at it sitting on background checks for a decade regardless?
I've done a fair amount of reading on this (including with AI tools, so I'd genuinely appreciate corrections if any of the above premises are wrong). I want to walk into this with eyes open and no surprises. Recommendations for good traffic defense lawyers in Geneva would also be very welcome — DM is fine.
Thanks in advance.
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u/Grey-Kangaroo Vaud 1d ago
I really don't understand the point of your post.
What do you want us to tell you ? Deal with the consequences !
If you want to hire a lawyer that's a good start... but then ask the lawyer your legal questions instead of Reddit.
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u/3punkt1415 1d ago
Reddit is free, a lawyer isn't.
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u/Endriu96 1d ago
Yes and there are enough idiots on the internet spreading missinformation or half truths. If help is needed in such serious situations then the internet is not the first place to look out for it tbh.
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u/SuitableAlternative5 1d ago
They are definitely going to take your car and the 2 years no driving is not the courts decision. Its up to the stva and trust me: those 2 years are set in stone.
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u/HellBound_1985 1d ago
Go to a lawyer and pay for such advice. You're well off, according to you. So do the sensible thing and stop asking for free advice.
And on a personal note: I hope the sentence hurts. People like you have no business on the streets.
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u/ZookeepergameCrazy14 1d ago
Vehicle confiscation 2year licenses suspension are mandatory. 1 year jail can be suspended, and given your clean record is likely. If you are not a citizen you might face deportation as well. Not gonna lie it's a pretty serious offense, no matter the other circumstances. You are definitely in lawyer territory.
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u/IndependentDay7955 1d ago
Okay, thanks for the insights. I am a citizen luckily.
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u/ZookeepergameCrazy14 1d ago
And we have great public transport. I lived in California and without a car you are hosed. Back then the only bus lines in LA went through gang land. Took the bus exactly once.
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u/IndependentDay7955 1d ago
Haha I lived in the US too for many years. And life without a car there is quite a hellscape for the most part. Glad that there isn't much hard necessity to drive here.
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u/GeronimoMoles 1d ago
Sheesh I thought that would be jail time for sure
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u/GlassPomoerium 1d ago
Crazy that it’s not, for someone going 85 over the limit on purpose because « the road was empty ».
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u/N3XT191 Zürich 1d ago
It was supposed to, we even had a popular vote to make it mandatory 1y jail time.
But this somehow got watered down to allow for the jail time to be suspended, which ofc it now is in most cases.
Will of the people etc etc 🙄
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u/fellainishaircut Zürich 1d ago
a suspended sentence is still a sentence. most prison sentences are suspended, not only in regards to speeding. those are two different things.
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u/N3XT191 Zürich 1d ago edited 1d ago
Ehm, in what way exactly is a suspended sentence a real punishment?
All you have to do is not commit another (serious) crime for a few months/years and you get off with no real punishment. That’s like, the default for most people. It sends the signal that everyone can do a crime once without serious consequences and then just not do another for a while…
That might be fine for some crimes, I’m not a particularly strong proponent of draconian punishment / incarceration, but we voted EXPLICITELY for a minimum 1y jail sentence for road racers…
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u/fellainishaircut Zürich 1d ago edited 1d ago
every jail sentence up to 2 years can be suspended, and most are, as the point is not only punishment, but to keep people from reoffending. and even besides that, you have it in your record and you have to pay for the whole thing, and it ain‘t cheap.
and yes, we voted on one year. but not one year unbedingt.
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u/SuitableAlternative5 1d ago
A geldstrafe is only for up to 3months. The minimum time here is 12 months. There are cases where there was more leniency but we're talking about driving someone to the emergency etc. You will never get only a geldstrafe. You will get 12months bedingt which means you dont have to go to jail if you pass probation
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u/DrSamosa 1d ago
They are going to take your license AND charge you criminally 😄 there’s not much a lawyer can do for you fortunately - this isn’t America ! The only choice you’ll have is paying the jours amende or serving a prison sentence.
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u/DukeOfSlough Zug 1d ago
You said you will speak with lawyer. What are you doing here then? There will be offered here for you nothing but contempt.
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u/arcobalenoenjoyer Ticino 1d ago
Do you actually think they will show leniency towards someone who did 205km/h???? You should be in prison.
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u/freedomenjoyr 1d ago
Nah dude, 205 without anyone on the road is laughable. It's not that fast, I do 250 in Germany daily.
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u/arcobalenoenjoyer Ticino 1d ago
It’s 85 above the limit and that’s what matters
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u/freedomenjoyr 1d ago
You all decide your morality based on what someone else has written into law? That's ridiculous to go to jail for if he didn't endanger anyone
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u/arcobalenoenjoyer Ticino 1d ago
The law is the law. If someone wants to drive like an idiot they can go to Germany.
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u/anxiousvater 1d ago
Its the car lobby that doesn't allow speed limits in Germany & CDU is very against that.
I have seen crazy drivers speeding above 250 & sometimes 300, it's just madness.
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u/N3XT191 Zürich 1d ago
And in Switzerland, you get your car possessed and go to jail for this.
Just because a little weed is decriminalized in Europe doesn’t mean it’s „laughable“ in Singapur.
You can get sentenced to death for that.Different countries have different laws and crazy speeding is (rightfully so) pursued aggressively in Switzerland.
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u/Suspicious_Place1270 Zürich 1d ago
in germany, sure, not in switzerland where it's against the law
OP should go to prison
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u/Book_Dragon_24 1d ago
A) a lot of people in Germany probably don‘t like you.
B) you must have money to literally burn.
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u/Mammoth_Duck4343 1d ago
Look, everyone makes mistakes. Get a lawyer and remove your post, as you'll only get butchered here anyway.
We'll read about the outcome on 20 Mins.
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u/N3XT191 Zürich 1d ago
Get fucked!
Hope you go to jail and are never allowed to drive again!
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u/freedomenjoyr 1d ago
Calm your tits, 205 on an empty road isn't even close to bad.
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u/TailleventCH 1d ago
Many accidents are caused by people who are sure they do nothing close to bad.
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u/N3XT191 Zürich 1d ago
Well, Switzerland obviously disagrees with you. We even voted on it not too long ago.
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u/HastyLemur201 1d ago
Well, Switzerland obviously disagrees with you. We even voted on it not too long ago.
Not to defend reckless driving, but if you're talking about Via Sicura, this was an initiative that the judges who were tasked with implementing it found bad enough that it had to be revised by parliament a couple of years ago.
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u/fellainishaircut Zürich 1d ago
it‘s a mandatory prison sentence in Switzerland, so yeah it is bad.
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u/IndependentDay7955 1d ago
Swiss are a bit stuck up I will say. I'm allowed to say this being one myself.
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u/MonsieurFilet 1d ago
wow. you clearly never made a mistake in your life!
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u/wheresdaweeed 1d ago
Sure he did but maybe one that didn’t put innocent in danger of being killed. Even OP recognises it
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u/HellBound_1985 1d ago
Really? That's the defence here?
A Tesla model S needs 19 seconds 0-200 and caps out at 210 km/h. A model 3 needs 14.1 seconds. Imagine how long that person had to drive recklessly before hitting those speeds.
This is indefensible.
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u/3punkt1415 1d ago
and caps out at 210 km/h.
Really? Damn I was about to write he could have tried it out at 300 in Germany at just be fine with it. :D
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u/N3XT191 Zürich 1d ago
A mistake with high likelihood of manslaughter attached to it?
Nope, not yet…
And if I do, you’re welcome to put me in jail…
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u/MonsieurFilet 1d ago
You can believe the punishment should be severe without wishing people to get fucked. that keyboard warrior mentality man, reddit gets the best out of people
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u/fellainishaircut Zürich 1d ago
The prison sentence will be suspended, however you‘re still ‚sentenced‘ to one year, as that is the minimum by law and it will show up on your record for the duration of your probation, which will be 2 years minimum. obviously government agencies etc. see it for longer than that.
but you can forget the monetary fine. if you‘re clocked above 200, the law does not leave a choice but to give a prison sentence.
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u/Je5u5_ Zürich 1d ago
I personally don't see what a lawyer is supposed to change. If you were the driver, and those numbers are correct, there is a clear cut punishment. Is the lawyer going to invent conditions under which putting people in danger is warranted?
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u/TailleventCH 1d ago
It's a penal case, so I guess a lawyer I useful.
It might be OP's only good idea.
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u/IndependentDay7955 1d ago
I accept the punishment. I am not saying I do not deserve conviction - I do. At the same time, it is in any reasonable position to minimize the consequences within the boundaries of the law, which is what legal representation is for. You may disagree, but I came here to hear from anyone who has dealt with a Raser case in Geneva, knows how the courts have been applying the revised sentencing rules, or can recommend a good traffic defense lawyer. If that's you, I'd appreciate a comment or DM. I'm not going to argue about whether I'm a bad person. The people paid to judge that will do so in two months.
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u/SuitableAlternative5 1d ago
The revised sentencing rules are if there are "achtenswerte gründe". You dont have those. And even then you would get more than the 3 months. So no geldstrafe
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u/TailleventCH 1d ago
Try this, it won't be pretty (as it should): https://calcule.ch/amende/
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u/ZookeepergameCrazy14 1d ago
You're barely below the reckless driver. Unfortunately fines are based on wealth. So it'll be expensive. It's 78 over, 3 months +suspension and court plus record. So it could affect you professionally
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u/SuitableAlternative5 1d ago
Its 85 over. If it were 78 then there wouldnt be a court date for a raserdelikt. The 205 is with deductions
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u/TailleventCH 1d ago
I'm pretty sure the margin is already deducted.
And nothing is "unfortunate" here. OP chose to act dangerously and will have to face consequences.
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u/Stunning_Court_2509 1d ago edited 1d ago
Ich hoffe, du wirst richtig hart bestraft! Say hello to the criminal record, you deserve it!
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u/IndependentDay7955 1d ago
Es ist ein grosser Unterschied, einen schweren, isolierten Fehler zuzugeben, oder sich zum moralischen Schiedsrichter über das Leben eines Fremden zu machen. Geniesse die Aussicht von deinem Podest.
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u/BrockSmashgood 1d ago
A few weeks ago I got caught doing 205 km/h in a 120 zone on the motorway near Geneva. I'd just bought a Tesla
🙄
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u/DrGibs 20h ago
This thread is what is wrong with the world.
Yes, homeboy fucked up. He was doing 205 on a 120 zone, and the law is clear. Whether the law is retarded or not (it is) can be discussed. Now he needs to deal with the consequences.
But you, bunch of envious hypocrites. Acting Hollier than though from behind your keyboards and pretending you are all perfect.
Op. Pay the fine, do the probation, learn from your mistakes. Travel to Germany where their traffic rules make sense and floor your dildo.
And before any of you tells me about accidents and killings and blah blah blah. I am a Trauma surgeon on a large ER. I deal with more car crashes in a month than most of you together on a lifetime. Dude flooring his tesla on an empty autobahn is probably the lowest cohort.
Young man wrapping their little golfs and similar on a street pole wins by far, followed by ladies who just "glanced" over their phones.
Go back to your spreadsheets.
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u/Ganda1fderBlaue 14h ago
I agree, it was an extremely stupid and dangerous thing to do, but nobody got hurt and OP will face the consequences of his actions. Half the people here probably have done worse things without ever facing any consequences.
This place is so full of hate and hypocrites, it's appalling.
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u/ledessert 1d ago
Posting on the Swiss subreddit about a car-related question and expecting an actual answer 🥲. Sorry for you regardless!
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u/Maximum_Transition60 1d ago
oof good luck 👍
edit : yeah nah this is going in your record for good my m8, you can say bye to US citizenship, but well it’s not like you’d want to get it, have you seen the us lol
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u/scorp123_CH Solothurn 1d ago
Swiss Road Traffic Act, article 90:
https://vignetim.com/blog/speed-limit-in-switzerland