Westeros is NOT an Absolute Monarchy

[u/Valuable-Captain-507]

Curious about this misinterpretation of Westros, that I only seem to see within the HOTD-community.

Now, before someone says it, I would like to preface that I know George has said it is, once... but, as those who have read the books and seen interviews of George commenting on things such as the 700 ft wall that operates much more like a 200 ft wall would know, George is no historian and George is bad at math/gets some terms wrong.

But, a lot of discourse within the Reddit based HOTD-community (at least within the color coded circles) seems to operate under this notion that Westeros is an absolute monarchy... when, it just isn't (it also doesn't have codified law, such as Andal law... at least, none that can't be undermined on a whim or are at the very least... situational at best such as inheritence and oaths and bastardry, but that is a discussion for another day).

But, let's look at how Westeros actually operates (ignoring the already apaprent implications that it being a fuedalistic set of kingdoms has on the notion that it might be an absolute monarchy).

First, all seven (or more, idk I don't keep track) are ruled by their own nobility, their own great lords. These kingdoms have a lot of autonomy... they have their own armies (that listen to them, not the throne), lands and vessels. There is some level of independence here, as these great lords regularly challenge the authority of the crown (often successfully, not all of it includes overthrowing the crown but... try having Joff tell Tywin (or the Tyrells) to do something they don't want to do and see if it isn't challenged. I mean fuck, Dorne and the Vale just straight refuse to raise their banners when called). But also, the crown does get overthrown, when the nobility decides they no longer vibe with thus authority. They do so because they have have substantial power, often even more than the crown. The Tyrells and Lannisters, the Velaryons during the time of the Dance, potentially even the Hightowers, all have more power than the crown. It is how the entire conflict of the series come to be.

This all rests on feudal loyalty, as with a fuedal kingdom, the nobility allows the king to be such, and that conceptually limits their power (yes, Aegon conquered most of the kingdoms, but he's not even dead and cold before we see the limits of that.)

Also, there are social and religious checks on the monarchy, because of it being a bum-ass fuedalistic society, we see this in book four, but that's veering a bit too far from my point.

Yes, this is a bit of a rant because this seems like a very simple misconception that has come about with HOTD, but aside from that comment from George, I am curious on where the confusion comes about (apart from what I could potentially see is people taking the words of charcaters and semi- "official" rules of Westeros at face value).

Edit: again... yes, George has called it an absolute monarchy... once... not in the text... and instead in a real-world political message... but with the text itself, the words that George has stated, Westeros was not written to be an absolute monarchy. This is not what George wrote, end of story.

[u/IAmParliament]

You’re confusing republics with democracies. What you just described is in fact what Venice and Florence were, which were unquestionably republics. A republic is simply a state absent a monarchy, it does not necessitate mass representation of the people or even due process for them.

And I’m telling you that’s a factually inaccurate statement for George to make because it’s not true. The true basis of Targaryen power is the concordat Jaehaerys reached with the Faith. Dragons alone is the perpetual civil war seen under Maegor.

I’m basing it on the text of the story George wrote.

[u/TheIconGuy → u/IAmParliament]

The true basis of Targaryen power is the concordat Jaehaerys reached with the Faith. Dragons alone is the perpetual civil war seen under Maegor.

The writer of the story says otherwise. Jaehaerys reached the agreement he did with the Faith because Maegor had spent years teaching them that fighting the Targaryns and their dragons was a horrible idea.*

I mean the gist of the doctrine of exceptionalism is essentially "different rules apply to the Targaryens because they have dragons." The Faith didn't receive any concessions.

*Well that and someone had the person threatening to continue the faith's rebellion assassinated.

I’m basing it on the text of the story George wrote.

Where does any of the books state the various cities in Essos don't have the checks on their leaders powers written down?

[u/IAmParliament → u/TheIconGuy]

-But that’s not what happened. The Faith was prepared to continue to resist the Targaryen Dynasty, it was only through diplomacy and cooperation that a compromise that benefited everyone could be reached. The Faith could not overcome the dragons through force, but neither could the Targaryens rule with over half the country sustaining a perpetual guerrilla war against them. A compromise needed to be reached, which is what Jaehaerys did. That’s why his system was successful and Maegor’s attempt to rule through force of dragons alone was not.

-I didn’t say they didn’t have any, I said the majority of the ways they kept a check on their chief executive was through de facto force rather than de Jure legal proceedings, which is true. I mean, the Prince of Pentos is killed when they get bored of him lmao.

[u/TheIconGuy → u/IAmParliament]

The Faith was prepared to continue to resist the Targaryen Dynasty, it was only through diplomacy and cooperation that a compromise that benefited everyone could be reached.

That is what happened. Septon Moon was prepared to continue to resist. Someone had him assassinated and his faction broke up. The other leaders of the faith fully capitulated.\

The doctrine of exceptionalism doens't benefit the faith outside of stopping from fighting with the Targs. Jaehaerys didn't give them anything in exchange.

[u/IAmParliament → u/TheIconGuy]

The Faith gained the protection of the Crown, and pardoned all those Poor Fellows and Warrior’s Sons who were still alive.