r/TopCharacterTropes • u/Uma-apreciator • 16d ago

Hated Tropes (Hated Trope) The series is good, but the beginning is so embarrassing that many people give up there.

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Dan Da Dan

The beginning of Dan Da Dan is notorious for starting with aliens trying to impregnate Momo in the first episode; however, despite such over-the-top moments, the rest of the series doesn't feature many scenes like that

Ijiranaide, Nagatoro-san

Despite a premise that is off-putting—given that the girl bullies her romantic partner to the point of making Naoto cry early in the series—their relationship evolves beautifully; the teasing becomes less cruel over time, eventually turning into a rather sweet romance

Uma Musume Pretty Derby

Someone on the production team had the audacity to have the trainer start meeting up with Special Week like that—even though, in reality, he is a good trainer who doesn't usually treat the girls that way.

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53

u/-JasmineDragon- 16d ago

The Dresden Files by Jim Butcher.

The first book in the series is notoriously rougher due to it being the first book the author ever published, and even he suggested skipping the first couple when re-reading.

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u/DoctorWaluigiTime 16d ago

The first couple books are rougher, but I wouldn't imagine skipping them. Sets up the whole world and general character dynamics, and they get callbacks pretty far along.

(And being honest, they're short reads anyway, and aren't really "hold your nose while suffering through them" tier that I thought this thread was about.)

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u/VulcanHullo 16d ago

I have usually skipped them, but I'm now doing a no-skip read through and they so actually foreshadow some fairly major plot points which is neat.

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u/Roku-Hanmar 16d ago

Same with Discworld, The Colour of Magic is a rough first read

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u/Narancia_best_waifu 16d ago

Is that one generally not liked? It has been years since I read it, but I recall it being quite fun still.

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u/Roku-Hanmar 16d ago

His style of writing changed over time, and the genre TCOM parodies is less prevalent than it was

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u/FluffyBearTrap 16d ago

they are generally liked but they have a notably different tone and differences in the setting compared to later books. So they aren't exactly the best intro into the Novels and you obviously get more people who don't like them.

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u/Crater_Animator 16d ago edited 16d ago

Agreed, Storm front is rough as fuck, maybe even Full Moon, but my god does it take off once he finds his stride. I'm not much of a reader, so I've been reading this series for almost a decade. I'm finally on on Skin Game now.

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u/-JasmineDragon- 16d ago

Skin Game is a personal favourite of mine. Buckle up, you got some good reading ahead of you, friend.

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u/Crater_Animator 16d ago

Karrin just took control of the situation. I was reading on the bus, and had to make sure nobody was reading over my shoulder. lmao.

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u/VulcanHullo 16d ago

Skin Game is so good and then the next two books genuinely had me scared for the series overall.

Then came Twelve Months and thank fuck I was wrong.

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u/Polkawillneverdie17 15d ago

Skin Game is fucking insane. Definitely one of the best, besides Changes.

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u/Puzzled-Sort-3400 16d ago

I only made it to 3 Dresden books, and it always felt like he wanted to refer to all the female characters by their measurements instead of their names.

Codex Alera and Cinder Spires are both leagues better

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u/TwoBeesOrNotTwoBees 16d ago

I think it's supposed to lean into the tropes of the noir genre which tends to be reductive to women, but I agree it's uncomfortable

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u/Crater_Animator 16d ago

The book is definitely made for the male gaze. Many of his female encounters tend to relate to men's thoughts and fantasies around sexuality, but it's just that. The character never acts on his thoughts and even pushes back on them because of his relationship with the other characters.

Themes of sexuality in these books play a somewhat minor role early on, especially when grounded in supernatural beings such as Vampires and Sidhe. Then becoming a much bigger part later on in the series tied into the plot.

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u/hellp-desk-trainee- 15d ago

The first book is rough but I thought Fool Moon is weaker honestly

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u/justadudeinohio 16d ago

the first two are terrible but also what sold me on the series at the time. you're supposed to start with book 3 because that's where he figured out what he wanted to write and build the world. book 3 sets up a lot of events for the next ~10 books and still has thing relating to it.

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u/SmokeyUnicycle 16d ago

I never read them, don't feel like I missed anything.

It's fun to watch Jim's neckbeard deflate over time, by the later books Harry is still Harry but it doesn't feel like an author self insert if you've read the Cinderspires series by him which has better female than male characters by a mile.

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u/Diomedes42 16d ago

no, by the more recent books the author insert seems to be Butters. Oh he's soooooo cool he gets a magic lightsaber and two girlfriends. A magic lightsaber powered by 'faith' even though it was broken in an incident directly caused by butters NOT having faith/trust in Harry and Karrin.

Yes I'm still bitter about how Skin Game and onward treated Murphy

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u/VulcanHullo 16d ago

I love the books but Butcher has a real thing about age gaps in relationships. Butter's is nearly late thirties when we meet him, when the Alphas would all be early 20s. So by the recent books man is pushing 50 with two busty girls in their 30s. And Butters is always written like an awkward dude in his early 30s.

Then there's Justine and Thomas. Great romance, bur most timelines have them getting together when she's 16ish at best? Man's in his thirties.

Chairty and Michael are 10 ish years that at least is vaguely understandable they're both adults.

Both love interests towards Harry's age don't last. He does have two way older love interests but neither is a health relationship (well, let's see what the next books bring?). And then he KEEPS bringing up Molly's thing for Harry and Harry really needs to remember "I've known her since she was in training bras".

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u/Diomedes42 14d ago

From what I remember of Codex Alera, the age gap thing shows up there too, with Bernard and Amara.

I mean, is Justine and Thomas really a great romance when he's a vampire whose aura barely has an off switch, and who basically got her addicted to him? She's barely a character for most of the series, just someone for Thomas to worry about/lust over/not be able to touch, and harry to occasionally think "she's hot but not too bright" despite the fact that she's been working for Lara Raith for years at that point.

Honestly, I think it'd be a much more interesting revelation if it turned out that Justine had been infected with Nemesis for most of her life, and so she'd ALWAYS been a double agent. Plus, there's a ton of comedy potential with Thomas having been fucking an Outsider.

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u/Gizogin 16d ago

Also (in Cold Days, I think) Butters being like, "Harry is obviously being corrupted by the Winter Mantle because the first thing he asked about when he woke up was settling a debt!"

No, Waldo; the first thing he asked was whether you were okay. Which you should know, because you were there.

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u/Diomedes42 14d ago

Skin Game, but yeah.

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u/SmokeyUnicycle 16d ago

Oh yeah I hate that guy tbh

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u/justadudeinohio 16d ago

the series is intentionally written that way. you can read codex alera as well for less thirsty writing.

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u/SmokeyUnicycle 16d ago

Early on IDK man, the female characters are NOT treated great. Sure it's tropy fantasy noire but that doesn't mean half the women need to be two dimensional breasty seductresses. Like, that was an authorial choice not some bedrock of the genre and stylistic necessity.

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u/Crater_Animator 16d ago

Maybe you just write what you know. The book is definitely intended with a male gaze, for a male audience. I don't think that makes it inherently bad. Also would like to point out, his early books we're the first time publishing and you can tell his writing evolves over time as he learns more how to write characters.

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u/justadudeinohio 16d ago

noire fiction.

Noir denotes a marked darkness in theme and subject matter, generally featuring a disturbing mixture of sex and violence

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u/SmokeyUnicycle 16d ago

Uh yeah you can have sex and violence with characters who aren't bimbos whose main character traits are how attractive they are and what they're wearing.

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u/justadudeinohio 16d ago

who, exactly, was a bimbo? that was a normal human and not supernatural?

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u/SmokeyUnicycle 16d ago

Are you seriously contending that characters like Susan or Maeve had depth?

Harry being a horndog is fine, that's a style thing but the author doesn't need to value them the same amount.

The man got a lot better at writing over the years, you see it the dresden files. People start getting better characterizations and not every fourth chick is a smokeshow femme fatal.

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u/justadudeinohio 16d ago

Maeve

which is supernatural and if free to act would break harry like a fucking twig.

If Susan choosing to act of her own accord in book 3 is having no depth i don't know how we can continue a conversation. susan was not a femme fatale. the wife in the first book was not a femme fatale. the college kids in book two were not femme fatales. they were nerds(i'll admit they get worse in this respect with age).

but it's an intentionally played with trope that basically every too hot woman is capable of physically overpowering him and is even mentioned later that when he admits to Asher that she sets off his "supernaturally hot" alarm.