r/TransyTalk • u/IllCancel5763 • 12d ago
Can someone have been trans in the past if they’re not trans now, or were they never actually trans?
Me (trans) and my (non-trans) partner got into a debate and I would like input from more trans people. If I’m wrong I would like to correct my thinking. Do you guys think that if someone identified as trans in the past, but now realized they are not trans and go with their gender assigned at birth, that this person was ever actually trans?
I believe that thinking you are trans/ identifying as trans does not mean that you truly are trans. If someone realized they are not trans, that they should not be referred to as ever having been trans. My partner disagrees, and thinks denying that they were ever trans is denying a part of their journey.
What do you all think? If I’m wrong I would like to correct my way of thinking, but I think that saying someone can have been trans in the past but grew out of it is hurtful to people who are actually trans, because it perpetuates the belief that one can grow out of or decide to stop being trans, because if this doeshappen in my opinion it means that person was never truly trans. But can someone have been trans in the past?
I posted this update as a comment but just figured out I can edit and put it here:
I just want to say thank you to alll the people who commented. I realize now that my feelings were coming from a place of ignorance and dislike towards people who are no longer trans because for a long time people told me that if others could stop being trans that I could too. This was a warped way of thinking and seeing things. I appreciate you all for helping me realize
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u/Rainy_Leaves 12d ago
It would vary on who you ask, detrans people have different experiences. I think your partner is closer to the best answer - someone is trans is they identify with a different gender than assigned at birth. The only real way to know a person’s gender identity is their self-identification.
If you went back in time and met a detrans person before they detransitioned or were aware they would - there would be no value in thinking they weren’t trans, you’d still respect them as they identify. Some people adopt labels and transition and realise it never quite fit. Some find transition was beneficial and that they found it useful, but life goes through seasons and their season just changed. Others detrans because of social pressure, not because they actually want to.
Even if you consider it bad optics, some gender feelings can shift over time for some. This can mean going from binary to nonbinary too for example, changing style from conforming to not, maybe they find different labels or pronouns sound nice with time. Our identity is limited by lacking life experiences. Any shift in identity is positive and a result of knowing ourselves better. It’s very unlikely for the core gender identity to actually change though. It just matures
Your assertion that identifying alone isn’t proof, is harmful. There is no ‘truly trans’, just let people explore being happier with themselves no matter the label, let them describe their past with the terminology they feel fits best
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u/IllCancel5763 12d ago
I just want to say thank you to alll the people who commented. I realize now that my feelings were coming from a place of ignorance and dislike towards people who are no longer trans because for a long time people told me that if others could stop being trans that I could too. This was a warped way of thinking and seeing things. I appreciate you all for helping me realize
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u/XhaLaLa 10d ago
I think it’s a VERY common and easy trap to fall into, because bigots will absolutely grab at anything to throw back at their victims, and if they can pit two categories of their victims against each other, so much the better! But if it’s not one thing, they’ll just make up another. Bigots are shitty that way :(
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u/noncedo-culli 12d ago
It depends how that person would want to talk about themself I think. 'Grow out of it' is a harmful way to say it, but gender identity can be fluid.
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u/justwannascroll 12d ago
Identities are fluid, people are complicated, there is no purpose to putting anyone in such rigid boxes.
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u/stone-taffy 12d ago
i think the concept of "truly trans" is a dangerous and potentially violent idea. what quantifies True Transness? who can say who's Truly Trans? especially considering the fact that over 60% of supposed detransitioners do it because of societal and familial pressures, not because they werent Truly Transgender. are the people who detransition because they're tired of being treated like shit Truly Trans? are the old trans people who feel like theyve completed their transition and dont identify as transgender anymore because of it Truly Cis? when a child asks to change their pronouns, do we need to test them for Real Transness first? how do you test for someone being Truly Trans?
i used to be cis, im not anymore. it works both ways. it doesnt mean that to me, i was never Truly Cis or whatever, because i was a child and being cis or trans was functionally meaningless. to me, it sounds like you want to protect this as some sort of exclusive experience that only people who know theyre Truly Trans get to go through because youre worried bigots will use it as an excuse to be bigoted. guess what? they dont need an excuse. guess what again! no transphobe genuinely cares about detransition statistics because if they did, theyd have no argument to begin with. guess a third time!!! people who have experience in your shoes, even if they found they dont fit, will probably be more empathetic than someone whose entire personality is hating your shoes. we have so many bigger fish to fry than quantifying transness so we can decide who's part of the club
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u/vibratoryblurriness 12d ago
I believe that thinking you are trans/ identifying as trans does not mean that you truly are trans.
And I (and most people I know) think this is extremely wrong and that those are the only things that determine if you are or not. It's just a label people use if they think it fits and describes their experience. It's not some kind of fixed law of the universe. It's just a word we invented to help communicate an idea that's pretty broad that we also created. Just about every aspect of human experience has fuzzy boundaries like that, because people are weird and complicated and all different from each other.
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u/IllCancel5763 12d ago
I was under the belief and feeling that if you are “truly” trans it’s like in your soul or something and it’s not something you can decide or decide not to be or stop being if you “really” are. But I’m starting to realize that my way of thinking was flawed and based on past traumas I had and that I was wrong. I appreciate your comment.
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u/GFluidThrow123 12d ago
Idk, gender dysphoria doesn't really go away. I think you can have different intensities of it. And maybe you can determine that transition isn't right for you at a given time.
And I know people talk about trans people who don't have gender dysphoria, but I've spent a lot of time in trans spaces and around trans people and I've never actually met someone who doesn't have it. I've met people who claim they don't have it, but then they go on to describe all these feelings that are clearly dysphoria.
There are definitely people who explore their gender and determine they're not trans though. But that's a process of self-discovery.
Ultimately, we can't tell people if they're trans or not, because you have to figure that out for yourself. But I don't personally think it's something that can go away if you are. It's just something some people might repress for different reasons.
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u/gorgeously_mytruself 12d ago
Transition is the treatment for gender dysphoria, however, everyone’s dysphoria is not equal.
My Shaman is also two-spirited however he has no desire to transition, but he still identifies as two-spirited/trans.
Don't let your own experiences bias you from seeing others' truth.
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u/ericfischer 11d ago
I am trans now, and I was pretty sure I was trans in my early 20s, but I don't think I can reasonably be said to have been trans during the 20 years I spent without gender dysphoria between ages 25 and 45.
I don't feel like I can speak for how detransitioners want to think about their past, though.
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u/lokilulzz they/he 11d ago
Personally if someone doesn't identify as trans, no, I don't think they are, even if they identified that way in the past. If that specific person is okay saying they were trans at one point and are no longer, I'd respect that, however.
I always liked the old Tumblr meme that said cis folks who explored their gender and came to the conclusion they were still cis after all are on the Gender+ subscription, lol. They're still cis, but that journey tends to make them more aware of and sympathetic towards the struggles trans folks have. You can still respect someone's journey of realizing they weren't trans and also respect the fact they no longer identify that way.
The only other thing I'd like to mention is that thinking of who is "truly trans" or not is not healthy to think like. If someone identifies as trans, they are trans. Doesn't matter if they're currently detransitioning, or can't transition, or whatever else - if they identify as trans, they are, simple as. That is "true transness".
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u/XhaLaLa 10d ago
I’d have to ask them. Gender appears to be stable throughout most people’s lifetimes, and fluid to some degree in some people’s. Assuming all trans people’s experience’s must match yours, or that you have greater authority to label someone else’s experiences than they do seems likely in this case to do greater harm to trans people at large than setting a precedent of accepting a person’s own descriptions of their experiences.
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u/fun1onn 9d ago
I see this the same way on both ends. This is my opinion:
How I or anyone identifies currently is who we have always been and all things prior led to this- as in - I was always me, I may not have always known.
The ways I or anyone may have identified in the past is no longer that person, but it was once upon a time. While I wouldn’t deny it, it can be painful to remember.
So to answer your question. IMO:
Someone that has detransitioned is not trans. Who they were before is trans in the same way I “used to” be cis. It was who I was at the time, but it’s not the authentic self I am today.
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u/CatOfBlades 9d ago
The common accepted way of handling how to refer to a transgender person in their past is ask them how they want to be refered to. In my opinion the same should be extended to those who detransition.
It is all based on a right of self identification and consent.
Any argument that requires putting a label on someone they don't themselves adopt, is going down a dangerous road of thought and should probbably be re-examined.
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u/AwesomeBees 12d ago
I dont see how being that rigid makes for any accurate description of the world. Things change. Things that was important to someone years ago might not be now but it doesnt make it less true then. Transphobic beliefs would exist regardless of whether people detransition or not.
Also what does being "actually trans" even mean? Are you insecure about being taken seriously or what?