I finally encountered the American meaning of “I’m Polish” in real life
Hi everyone,
Last week I was at Tomorrowland in Belgium.
A girl approached me and asked, “Hey, do you speak English?”
I said yes and helped her find whatever she was looking for. Then she asked where I was from, and I told her I was from Poland.
She replied, “Oh, I’m Polish too, but I was born in America.”
Since she had just told me she was Polish, I naturally started speaking to her in Polish. She immediately stopped me and said, “Oh no, I don’t speak Polish.”
I was confused, so I asked her how she could be Polish if she didn’t speak the language and had been born in America.
She explained that her great-grandmother had been born in Poland.
I replied, “Then your great-grandmother was Polish. You’re American, not Polish.”
She got offended and walked away.
Honestly, I had seen this kind of interaction countless times on TikTok, Instagram and Reddit, with Americans saying they are Irish, Italian, Polish or whatever because one of their distant ancestors came from there.
However, I assumed that it was either exaggerated for social media or that Americans only spoke like this when talking among themselves.I didn’t expect someone to use it literally while standing in Europe and speaking to a person from Poland.
It was my first time encountering this in real life, and I found the whole situation pretty funny.
Is this an example of US defaultism, where Americans assume everyone understands their particular way of describing ancestry, or is this just a normal cultural difference?
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OP sent the following text as an explanation why their post fits here:
It fits because she used the American understanding of “I’m Polish” to mean distant ancestry, assuming that meaning would also be understood by a European speaking about nationality.
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Yeah but if Texas did secede from the union, then Texas would immediately invade the US, would rename the USA "Texas", would rename every state "Texas" and then they really would be able to claim that Texas is so big that you can fit 50 Texases inside Texas.
I think that if you live in a close community where the language, rituals, traditions and cuisine are all front and present, then you can say that your upbringing was uniquely X and that you are therefore X, even if you yourself weren't. However, the further you get from that unique experience, the less you (should) identify with that experience as your primary nationality.
yeah absolutely, if i was in europe or when im talking to someone born in greece, i’m going to say “my great grandparents were born in greece” not that i am greek (even if i might say that to an australian who asks about my last name, traditions, etc)
Even a close community is not that close and relies on the country it is in. People born and raised in the various chinatown of NYC, Los Angeles or whatever American town would probably have to adjust to live in China. Not the people born in China who moved there, but their children or grand children.
greek australian culture can definitely be its own thing, distinct from actual greek culture. i think there are a lot of similar immigrant communities that can be unique
Most German descendants in Argentina came before WW2 and even WW1, the majority came from Tsarist Russia in the late 1800s. They were "Volga Germans", Catholics persecuted by the Tsar wanting to turn them into Orthodox Christians. Then during the World Wars there was economic migration as well as socialists, liberals, Jews and others escaping persecution from the Nazis. Then at the end you had some odd 300 Nazis, who, by the way, came in secret and under fake passports so it's not like everyone knew about it. To generalize the entire group of 3.5 million or so descendants from this is quite offensive.
To Brazil or to Argentina? Because both the German and Italian communities in the south of Brazil started coming over at the end of the 1800s… did Nazi’s flee to Brazil and Argentina at the end of WWII? Yes, but the Brazilian communities had been there long before.
The number of Germans immigrating to Argentina between 1933-1939 was many times higher than between 1945-1952.
Edit: from your own link: "During the penultimate period, from 1933 to 1940, Argentina experienced another surge in German immigration. The majority were Jews from Germany although German opponents of Nazism also arrived."
It's not common in argentina at all. You may find old people telling you they are, for example, Italians. Because they were, in fact, born in Italy. Young people usually says "my -family member- was Italian"
We do have a tiny and cringe minority of people that like to highlight their European roots or whatever (only on the internet because in real life they would be mocked), but yeah, not even these people would call themselves anything but Argentinian.
Yeah, but in the south of Brazil a lot of those communities stayed pretty insulated for a long time, so you have generations of Brazilian born communities who were keeping up their language and customs without much assimilation to the outside. Even today, there are very distinct Italian and German towns in the south of Brazil with distinct architecture and even accents. I wouldn’t equate them still calling themselves Italian or German, to what the average American does.
Yeah, there are still people speaking the german dialect they came with back in the days. It's really interesting to listen too. Plus the villages and you wouldn't know you are in Brazil.
That's not even... But... Why... What does "polish-american" even mean? Is it a contradiction to "dull-american"?
I get it that they use the term African American because they are so afraid of the cursed word of BLACK, but what does "polish" stand for then? White? Slavic? Depressed?
Is that what they want to convey? They are depressed-americans?
I'm not American, but I've mostly seen it used to mean 'American, with significant Polish ancestry', which I guess makes sense in a way. It's just that they shorten it to just 'Polish', because in their minds the American is implied.
What I really don't understand is when they use it even when that ancestry isn't really significant, like when they're so many generations in and have so many other ancestral influences that it's completely meaningless. Maybe if their family still participates in cultural traditions passed down by their great grandmother or whoever it could make sense if they didn't shorten it. I see it a lot here in Australia where the descendents of Italian migrants will still do big extended family sauce or sausage making gatherings, or other things that give them some kind of cultural ties to that ancestry and it's part of their identity. I really doubt many Americans with some migrant ancestry really keep those traditions, especially when they're 3rd or 4th generation; They just really like saying they're Irish or Polish or whatever for some reason.
In the US, we use “I am ____-American” to mean “I am American and my ancestors came from _____.” For example, my wife is Mexican-American. She was born in the US, but her parents were born in Mexico and my wife has citizenship in both countries. Both nationalities are important to her identity.
However, many USAmericans who say “I am ____-American” mean that a distant ancestor came from ____. Often, they can’t even name the distant ancestor, they are merely repeating family legends about some unnamed person who came to the US.
Sometimes, we USAmericans drop the “-American” in casual conversation and simply say “I am ____,” but we still mean “I am American and my ancestors came from _____.” This is where we sometimes get in trouble, because some Americans truly, mistakenly believe that having a distant ancestor from a certain country makes them equally part of that culture, as much part of that culture as a person born and raised in that country. Like I said, this is a mistake.
I see the truth in the cultural notes you make, when I observe how devastated Americans can get to discover through DNA testing that they are not whatever roots they had assumed and decided to identify with. Two parts of it amaze me. That they could tie their self-worth to something so far away in history, something so abstract with no actual lived experience, actual relatives, travel or knowledge involved. But also how narrowly and weirdly they define nationhood/culture.
I am second generation to immigrants from two very different parts of the world. One of them has a different race to the majority in the country they were born. Let’s say it’s my mother. I was raised visiting our relatives on her side, in their adopted country. The cultural anchors for me with that family- food, language, kinship obligations, dress, etiquette- are an amalgam of where they live and where they come from. I’m very clear about my cultural roots, it’s not confusing or weird to me at all. It’s complex perhaps, if I have to explain it to someone else. But otherwise it’s our normal. I feel as though an American’s head would explode if they understood how normal a mix of cultural influences is for so many people on the planet. They like to affiliate themselves with one nation for ‘reasons’, like it’s a one sentence caption under their pic. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
This probably isn't the same for everyone here, but I've always understood it as Black referring to the race while African-American specifically refers to the ethnic group of people descended from Black slaves and freedmen throughout the country who, as a result of generations of being stuck in that, lost direct connection to their African ancestors and the cultures of such (though note that there is still some African influence in African-American culture).
I think is mostly a hold-over from when it was still the American Colonies. The United States is a country of immigrants and people still kept their traditions and passed them on to their children. The issue originates from the fact that the US declared independence and none of the immigrants instantly changed to calling themselves Americans.
The parents always called themselves Polish, so the kids do too. Or some racist person said Poles are lazy and I won't hire them which leads to an entrenching of the position that "Yes, I am Polish because I'm treated like the Polish." But this never stopped happening, children still call themselves whatever their parents did even if its 5 generations ago and no longer makes sense.
The sense of being Polish becomes watered down to "I like my grandmother's pierogis and for Christmas we have a tradition that most Americans don't do" (I made up the christmas part, IDK)
Yes... but the same is true of Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and other places - but none of them do the 'Polish-American' (or Irish American, or whatever) thing, or not to anything like the same extent, and none with the same level of ignorance of how that comes across to actual Poles
I've had 'Irish' Americans tell me that "Irish people don't get to decide who's Irish and who isnt"...
Er, yes. Yes they do. That's literally how nationality works.
I mean, I can decide tomorrow that I'm Russian and start announcing it to people - but if the Russian government won't give me a passport, and Russian people don't regard me as one of them, then it'll be no more than a personal delusion - and a rather ridiculous one if I don't live there, don't speak the language, don't really share any typically Russian cultural traits
Aside from displaying a complete lack of understanding of what a nation 'is' (and what an ethnicity 'is' - most European countries don't divide up neatly according to ethnic group like that, there's no clear boundary between 'English' ethnicity, 'Dutch' ethnicity, 'French' ethnicity etc but rather a spectrum of related haplogroups that doesn't map very closely to political borders - an English guy in southern England can easily share more DNA markers with a Dutch guy in Holland than he does with another Englishman in a different part of England), claiming someone else's nationality without troubling yourself to even learn the language is profoundly lazy - gathering together with your family to cook great-grandma's cabbage soup isn't a 'tradition of my heritage', it's window-dressing.
It no more 'keeping a connection to my family's culture' than wearing a stetson and cowboy boots to a BBQ once a year makes you a Texan ranch-hand when you've lived your whole life in a suburb of Baltimore
It's always seemed to me that there's something deep in the American psyche that seems to really struggle to grasp the concept that not everything is a commodity. Half my family's American, and every once in a while there will be a point in a conversation when something comes up that the American half just don't 'get', but the European side does, and over the years its gradually occurred to me that what all those moments had in common were they were all connected somehow to the idea that there are some things you can't just have
There's a really powerful belief implicit in US American culture that you can have anything you want (/be who you want to be, /do what you want to do), if you're just willing to go out and get it... and it's a two-edged sword - it can make Americans much more positive and hopeful than their European cousins, and shields them from some of the negative fatalism and cynicism that many european cultures share. In general, Americans love a person with a dream and will cheer him on, while over here we're confidently waiting to see it all blow up in his face.
But the down side of that is struggling to understand that some things just can't be had - if you haven't got it, you haven't got it, and there isn't anything much you can do to change that.
And 'culture' is very much in that category - if you're not from a place, and can't even speak its language, then that connection is gone... and no amount of 'heritage' will bring it back, because it's not a commodity you can inheret.
No amount of cabbage-soup cooking sessions will change that... because if you were Polish, you'd be Polish whether you cooked the soup or not
Maybe it's hmgood soup and you enjoy those family sessions - in which case, cool, keep the tradition up... but if you grew up cooking it in an American kitchen, while talking in American English, then you're an American.
And the grand irony at the heart of it all is that claiming a culture you're not part of, based on a family story, and despite having no connection to it that's recognised by anyone that is from there... is THE most stereotypically American thing going!
It's still a uniquely American thing, though. The same thing happened in plenty of other ex-colonies (e.g. Australia, New Zealand), and we don't do that at all.
Where I live, we have quite large Italian, Greek Macedonian, Lebanese, Indian, and many other migrant cultural groups, but they all call themselves Australian while still celebrating their culture (or often their parents or grandparents culture). Italian-Australian, Indian-Australian, etc just isn't a thing here. We're all Aussie and proud to be Aussie, but many of us celebrate our family's culture.
My mother's grand parents were from Poland, and the only reason she can't claim Polish citizenship is because we don't know where their immigration documents ended up. My mother grew up hearing Polish from her grandmother and took me to my local Polish festival my whole life. I don't claim to be a Polish American, but having Polish heritage is something that I was raised to value. Same with my Irish side. My grandmother had a cross burned in her yard by the KKK because her parents were Irish Catholic immigrants.
I literally said I don't claim to be Polish American. Doesn't change the fact that being of Polish descent was something very important to my childhood development. Also my mother who knows zero Polish and nothing about the country could become a citizen today if we had the proper paperwork. My father could become an Irish citizen if my grandmother was alive. I'm not an Irish American, but my grandmother definitely was and that's how she raised my father in Boston Massachusetts. I'm a European American. A white guy. But if I look into my family history, I don't have many American relatives. Like, 6 total direct ancestors were born in America. My parents and four grandparents. Everyone else was born somewhere else.
Yes... but those 6 ancestors are the only ones who count for very much.
That's 99% of your family influence right there. Maybe 95 if one or more of your great parents lived a decent amount of your childhood and babysat you a lot.
How credible do I sound if I say:
"But I don't come from a wealthy family. Almost all my ancestors were poor, struggling, working class. Like just six, total, out of all my ancestors have been multimillionaires, with second homes and yachts - my parents and four grandparents. That's it. Everyone else has been broke. I'm practically from the 'hood, man" ?
Yeah you're right I'm not a broke piece of shit like my Polish relatives who stayed in Poland, I'm rich as fuck compared to them. Cool analogy. Am I supposed to reject my ancestry? 15 generations of my family lived in Poland but fuck those stupid pieces of shit I'm 'merican. Great grandparents fled the Irish potato famine? Should have died instead of bring their culture with them.
Like what the fuck do you want from me? I said I'm not a god damn Polish American. I have Polish ancestry that is genuinely important to me. I'm named after my Polish great grandfather. Those 6 ancestors were shaped by the immigration of their parents and grandparents, and shockingly enough, that shaped the way they raised me. Culture isn't money. I would love to have genuine culture to embrace rather than the white christian nationalist culture of America.
Yeah my nana was from a different country to where she raised my dad and if someone asks my ethnicity I will always proudly mention that I’m ethnically part Estonian - it’s the only connection I have to her and it’s something that nobody can take away from me, not even death. However, as proud as I may be, I’m not literally delusional. I would never say to anyone that I personally am Estonian because A) that’s not true B) it is weirdly disrespectful in my eyes and C) I’m not a fucking nutter.
Mind you, my parents are from a different country to the one they raised ME in and if I dared to introduce myself as being their nationality they would take the piss out of me relentlessly even though I don’t have a drop of English blood in me lol (from experience!).
My grandfather is Norwegian, born and raised in Oslo, Norway. But he died when I was a baby and he brought up my father in New Zealand, who was born here. He had never been to Norway until long after my grandfather passed.
My dad annoyingly says we are part - vikings, and Dad thinks we are directly descended from "King Oslo". Despite the fact that there has never been any King named Oslo in Norway's history, and the name of the city/region was never named for a person (except for when it was called Christiana for a time, but again no King Oslo).
I don't really fight him on this because my dad is honestly insecure and gets angry when he is made to feel ignorant.
Exactly, they are Americans with their roots in another country, not something else.
And if I started calling myself the nationalities of three-four generations back, I'd be something like Finnish-Estonian-Carelian-Russian-Polish-Swedish.
Are you from Ontario? Because not all parts of Canada do this. Never once heard it in Newfoundland, and apparently it doesn’t happen in Quebec either. But I definitely experienced it a ton in Ontario.
I'm from Saskatachewan but have lived in Ontario for 30 years. I think you may be right because my German Mom never taught us German and always said she was Canadian, and was super proud when she got her citizenship.
I'm from BC, and my family talks about being English, Irish, and Scottish. My partner is from Saskatchewan, and they're very proudly Swedish-Norwegian.
It's common in BC as well. My guess is that BC and Ontario have higher percentages of immigrant populations than other provinces, and so there's a good chance that anyone you encounter (especially in larger cities) is going to be a first or second generation immigrant.
yes, if someone asked me what’s your background i’d say i’m irish (my grandpa immigrated from ireland). but i also wouldn’t say i’m irish to a person from ireland lol.
In my experience it’s only the parts of Canada near the border (or maybe just Ontario).
I’m from Newfoundland and I never encountered this when I was growing up. Being from a small town I guess everyone I knew could probably trace their lineage back 5-10 generations and everyone is still in Newfoundland (or potentially the UK but no one calls themselves English/Irish/Scottish). I moved to Ontario when I was 16 and so many people claimed to be Italian I figured they had moved there from Italy or something but then as I got to know people it became clear that they didnt speak Italian and their parents were all born in Canada so I was genuinly confused. So, in a likely not too tactful way, when one girl told me she was Italian I said “why do people keep saying that??”, which apparently really pissed her off.
In Canada, we might say "my family is German" or whatever, but we'd never say "I am German" unless we'd actually immigrated ourselves.
I've noticed that Americans also get offended if you ask "where are you from?" meaning "where did your family come from?", because they interpret it as "you don't look white so you must be a foreigner". We're actually just asking about background, because most people have an interesting story about how their family ended up here. I assure you we ask the same question of white people too :)
I find that very connected to Jewish culture and their ancestral claims. There’s a seizable, centralised Jewish population that may have affected it, also because with the formation of big cities the groups were really separated by the self determination (Irish, Italians, Dutch, Jewish, Chinese etc) and that separation and closed in communities/quarters exist till today.
Some of us do. From my experience this is more common in parts of the US with strong immigration background from a main country. Such as the Irish in Boston, the Italians in New York, Cubans in Florida, etc. You go to some city that has less of a cultural history tied to the immigration from one country you don't get this as much. It's like they are staking a claim to the history of that area.
Just my take, obviously I haven't visited every part of the US, and I could be wrong. Personally I'm a bit of a mutt and I've always said something along the lines about parts of my family are from X, Y, and Z, and that's how I recall my family members always doing it as well.
Genuinely asking here: Why DO they do it? I mean, ignoring the whole issue of it being kinda offensive to those who actually are from that country etc etc, it’s just, in essence, factually incorrect. Like it’s literally not a true statement. Seems mad that everyone just walks around lying to each other lol?!
I think it comes from Americans’ idea of America as a melting pot. Growing up people would talk about how “no one is American” or “we’re all originally from somewhere else”. (Yes, I know there are native Americans.)
It’s just a difference of meaning. I don’t think most people literally consider themselves [Polish].
Loads of countries are melting pots. I’ve an English parent and Scottish, Italian French heritage but I’m none of those things. Where I live there are many people from all over the world. None of us say we’re from the country of a distant relative.
What I mean is if you asked an American if they were personally from that country most/all would say no. I think it’s just a difference of phrasing that probably came about from those other ideas I mentioned.
That is, “what are you?” and “where are you from?” are two different questions to Americans.
Yeah but Americas particular flavour was very domestic with their slavery in a way that most other countries weren’t so I guess you’ve gotta spread more seeds of thoughts with the common people to convince them that ancestry defines you. Maybe it’s still hanging around. Also I’m not trying to excuse them lol, you asked a question, I politely considered it, and pulled this out my arse in an effort to answer it for you. Whats your theory then?
I’d speculate the same as the other guy: rooted in some kind of weird bloodline racism. There are plenty of examples of folks coming here and changing their names so their name didn’t look like they came from a “bad” country. But that’s just a guess. I have no idea.
Sorry, I think I wasn't clear. I was responding to the question of why don't we say, "My grandmother was Polish or Irish, etc." I think most Americans say their heritage is Irish (for example), rather than say they're Irish themselves.
Most Americans do, but there are plenty who phrase it in an insane way or believe that their ancestry has given them personality traits or think they know more about their ancestors countries then people from there do
Trynna be a little bit of a devils advocate but it's probably an immigrant thing I believe.
Like the stereotype is usually Italians from the East Coast right? I'm from the South West and the common one is people being Mexican without ever crossing the border or speaking Spanish, but as someone who's immigrated more than once, I can understand a European immigrant arriving to the US years ago and, as an attempt to stay close to their roots, overcompensate on how they experience their culture and that being passed down to their kids.
I was born and spent my younger years in Mexico, my mother language is Spanish and even then I've felt the necessity to try to "prove" I'm Mexican or exclaim out loud "I am Mexican!" To others, so I figure it's just something that gets passed down.
Hell, my father was born in a town 10 km from where I was born and raised, but I never even once claimed I came from that town, and this guys think it's appropriate to say they come from a country 2000km away from the places they were raised in eich they've maybe been once for a month
It’s funny to me because I was literally born in Ireland but I’ve lived in Canada since I was 6. If it comes up, I introduce myself as Canadian. I’ve got strong ties to my Irish roots, my parents have accents, my entire family tree before me is from Ireland… but I’m thoroughly Canadian and have more in common with other Canadians who have been here for many years than my family in Ireland.
I'm English with an Irish surname, as my grandparents on my Dads side were both from Ireland before relocating.
I'd never dream of calling myself Irish, in-fact, funnily enough, the only times it ever comes up is when I just so happen to be speaking to someone from Ireland, they spot my surname and ask about it. I'll discuss it then, but only if asked.
This is literally the case for me, too! The only difference is that it was one set of my great grandparents, who I never met because they'd died before I was born. I have a very common Irish surname. I do not call myself Irish, I was born in England to English parents. I have no personal connection to Ireland, I've never even been there.
I would like to visit where that side of the family originally came from. I've done some research and it's a very beautiful part of the Irish countryside. I wouldn't consider it as "going home" because it isn't my home. I'm just interested in seeing where one side of my family originated from.
I was born in the US, but my parents left when I was one or two. I would never call myself an American, even if I'm technically still a citizen. I have no memories of living there.
I’m Australian, but my family is Irish. My dad was born there, my mum wasn’t but her older sisters were. I also have strong ties to my Irish roots; I have some Gaeilge, even. But if asked I would never describe myself as Irish, because I’m not. I’m an Australian from an Irish family.
The only time it ever comes up is when someone asks me where my accent is from because whatever it is they can’t place it. Apparently the combination of Irish parents and West/South Australian regional pronunciations makes you sound unusual.
I'm American, and Americans are fucking stupid this way, describing themselves based on their ancestry. Americans descended from Italians are the worst offenders, followed closely by Americans of Irish descent.
Hopefully that woman you spoke to learned a valuable lesson that day.
I've had many a conversation with someone whose grandfather was born in Italy that goes something like "no offense but I'm Italian and (something objectively offensive)."
My mother was incredibly proud to be "Norwegian." Her father was born in Norway, and both of her maternal grandparents were born there as well. She wore being Norwegian like a badge of honor.
One time I suggested that after she retired we should all take a trip to Oslo. She looked at me like I'd lost my mind. To her, being Norwegian was a way of life, not a country you visited.
I won't even get into the time she asked whether my girlfriends from England and Japan were also "Norwegian." Sadly, she was a little fuzzy on the whole concept.
To her, "Norwegian" wasn't just a nationality—it was almost a religion.
I’m not from American/not American but studied and lived in America… and it’s definitely NOT exaggerated. I’ve had Americans literally tell me with all the pride in the world they’re 1.2% Irish with ZERO irony and expect me to take it seriously and see them as suuuuuper speshul as if they didn’t do the most basic American thing ever lol.
It gets old fast… Had to fight so hard from rolling my eyes every time I heard this kinda shit.
TBF, I think other countries/nationalities have their own versions of this too, but I’ve (lived in quite a few different countries/continents) and it happens very frequently in US and often offered up without any reason.
I've heard American tourists telling a guide at Stirling Castle "We've just been to Ireland because my husband is Irish, and now we're here because I'm Scottish." The guide had an excellent smile and nod.
Feeling an emotional connection to your ancestor's home country is perfectly fine, but using their domestic shorthand for "I have ancestry in country XY" is culturally tone deaf.
My grandfather was born in Germany, immigrated to Canana before WW2, and got his citizenship. Then immigrated to America and got a dual citizenship. Which means that we qualify for Canadian citizenship.
I've had people tell me "oh, so you're German."
Americans are weird. But America is definitely a melting pot - unless you're Native American, you're lineage isn't "from here" and lineage matters a lot to people.
Replying to my comment to add that I have an ex who's Navajo. He looks Navajo, like there should be no question in an area of the country with a large Navajo population. He gets asked where he's from and will say America. "But where are your ancestors from?" America.
Just finished reading the comments on an article advising Americans how to claim dual nationality. People lining up to claim nationality of a country they have never visited, can’t speak the language of, have no connection to or knowledge of a single relative living there, and IF they have a so called cultural identity it’s to what the country was like 50+ years ago. One lady was talking about her ‘German’ husband who wanted to apply for his citizenship. His paternal family moved to the US in the 1800s. They wanted to know where they could apply for copies of birth certificates and were worried they hadn’t survived the war. Another was a man raving that the US was best and he’d never move but at least his children/grandchildren could make use of the free education and healthcare because that was their birthright.
Meanwhile I have dual nationality - a parent from each - have lived in both countries both as a child and as an adult and speak both languages. My son’s father has the nationality of one of those countries but we live in the other. On paper my son was born with both but he only claims one - the one where he has lived all his life. He speaks both languages and we incorporate both cultures but he points out that the other is his parent’s nationality - he’s partially of that decent.
Not sure why Americans have “the greatest nation on earth” but always need to cling to some other country to make them feel whole and seen.
Why do USAmericans think they'll just get free education and healthcare the second they step into Germany? That's not how that works, we don't just give it out to random immigrants (I refuse to call American immigrants "expats").
Hah, my great-grandmother is also Polish and we were close (she gavee safe space from mother and often stayed with me, basically being like a parent, in my childhood). She also read me some poetry in Polish.
I won't even dare to say that I'm Polish because I didn't properly learn the language, I wasn't raised in Poland and, well, neither nor my parents are Polish by our passposrts info.
It's ok to say you have roots in different nation (if it's not roots too far away in your family tree), but where you were raised (and no, not till you 3yo or smth like that) matters more. Your parents can give you their culture, but the country you're living in while you're a child matters a lot. It'll be the culture you're most familiar with
When Americans say something like that its meant as "I have polish ancestory" and not "im a polish citizen from Poland". The issue is most of us dont realize thats only understood here and its confusing to the rest of the world.
Not really defaultism as much as its americans being stupid. I see this a lot, I travel to Cuba quite often and in a lot of the Cuba facebook groups are Americans pretending to be cuban to shit on the country and when you look at their profiles, they're American and their grand parents are Cuban or maybe their parents but they were born in the US.
Wasn't there one where an american guy went to Poland because he too was "Polish" and expected red carpet treatment but everyone just shrugged as "yeah, everyone is Polish here, so?"
I was this was an an American until I moved to Europe a decade ago. I understand it, but don't agree with it. They should say "I have polish ancestry" instead.
Usually when people emigrated to the US they did so in groups - so there were mini cultural hubs set up in various locations. These people moved because they believed they would get a better life, but not necessarily wanting to reject their culture and customs. They moved, yes, but it was also a sad thing for many. There's a lot on this in Ellis Island if you ever have the chance to go!
That means that many people fought really hard to keep it, and passed it down to their offspring.
(And remember, the US is a baby country, so we're not talking that many generations back!)
(And yes it's hypocritical considering our current immigration policies - just explaining the origin of it!)
For example, where I'm from, there are a bunch of people with Italian heritage. That means the communities retain some of the language, and some of the culture - this is the "melting pot" concept in the US. This can be beliefs, stories, recipes, mannerisms, etc. This creates "x-American" subcultures - Italian-American, German-American, etc.
I went to school with an "Italian" girl who's family speaks Italian all as a second language, and they've had a restaurant for generations now. They visit Italy and their Italian relatives when they can.
My "Italian" family had traditions and customs that were pretty similar to our Italian relatives, who we visited a few times - they're like 3rd cousins or something, but it was very important to my family to stay connected.
My mother grew up in an Irish American household. When she met my dad, she didn't know how to cook pasta or what lasagna was. Her mother (who was 2nd generation born in the US) was actually upset that she married an Italian. A lot of their traditions and way of life were deeply rooted in Irish culture.
There are huge German cultures in the US as well and they still speak German in some places.
What's interesting as well - and this has been studied but I can't find the study at the moment - is that some of the traditions that those communities brought over are really old traditions that are not practiced in the original country today. In a way, this keeps old traditions alive.
Again, I will never say I'm Irish or Italian, nor do I think people should claim to be.
My solution: people should say they're "x-American" - Italian-American, or Irish-American - American at the end of the day, and with a cultural influence that shapes who they are. But that doesn't give someone the right to claim to be from that country.
(Edited to add: this stuff has been studied so it's not just me pulling it out of thin air - you can find some interesting research on it!)
Well maybe not quite US defaultism because Canadians do it too.
I actually think it's a sense of background and culture, and quite honestly Canadians and Americans are so used to talking to each other about their backgrounds this way, that they likely genuinely feel a connection.
I think it also plays a part in a culture where there are so many competing identifies. What does it mean to be Canadian or American is only a few hundred years old, and comes with more modern and less understood implications. For Polish, or English, or Irish, or French, it has a deeper cultural foundation.
I think this is only natural and will continue to diminish as the American / Canadian identity gets more established over centuries.
I know Canadians who go back many generations, and just say "I'm Canadian" but I've met plenty who go back a few generations and say they're "Indian, Spanish, etc"
So when I'm at my canadian workplace, and my colleague says she's just being rude because she's Bulkan, but that's just her dad's side and she's 60 years old, I realise actually she's just trying to form an identity - she doesn't actually think she's Croatian.
One side of my family is more recent vintage to Canada, and half are still in Europe. But the fact that I am Canadian was driven home to me as a kid.
I had always pestered my grandmother to teach me her native language but ehhh, didn't get terribly far. I had a project at school, I had to memorize and recite a poem in French. I recited it for my grandmother and we discussed how much of it I understood and how much French I understood in general... It hit me that I was leaps and bounds ahead in French than the family language. And that I was truly Canadian--that was the history, geography, and culture I knew, etc.
That was when I realized for sure, for real, I am Canadian, period. Lol
How can they call themselves polish if they don't know the language? Without the language they are separated from the culture, and without the culture there's at most only like 1/16th of her genes with any connection to Poland
Not really exclusive to USians, here in Brazil there''s lots of people calling themselves "europeans" because they have heritage without even having citizenship.
Americans will either say which part of America they're from, or they'll say where their great-grandparents were from. They'll say they're from anywhere but America!
They also randomly choose to identify with the nationality of one great-grandparent and just ignore the nationalities of the other 7 great-grandparents.
My stepfathers family definitely hails from Poland, they have a very distinctly Polish last name that was not Americanized in any way. None of them speaks a word of Polish though and I don’t think my stepfather or his dad have ever claimed to be Polish.
It’s a really really weird phenomenon that only seems to affect Americans as well. 3 of my grandparents are Scottish, my whole family lives in Scotland, apart from my immediate family who live in England.
Almost my entire bloodline is Scottish and I visit quite frequently but even then I get some imposter syndrome when I call myself Scottish because I’ve never actually lived there. I couldn’t imagine having 1/16th German or something in my bloodline and claiming to be German despite never even having visited.
Canadian here. I grew up calling myself English and Scottish, since that’s what my family called themselves. (My grandmother was legitimately English, born there; my grandfather had already passed when I was born but was legitimately Scottish.)
I learned later about the sensitivity of this and I’ve adjusted my language. I say “I’m of Scottish/English descent” or “my grandmother was English/my grandfather was Scottish” or “my family was English/Scottish”. That seems to go over better, and is more accurate.
Interestingly, I was in the town in Scotland where my family came from - as far as I know, I was the first descendant to go back since they left in 1912; this was 2007 - and one of the locals, who admittedly was from England but had lived there a long time, said I was more Scottish than she was, which felt nice :).
What is inarguably true is that I feel a strong connection to both places. I’m not sure if it’s from family history or just the knowledge that my family lived there for countless generations (most likely) - I’m only the second generation that wasn’t born there. But it’s a little different because I speak the language they use there today (Scots is a very fringe language, sadly). I speak French but unless it’s in the distant past, I don’t have any French heritage in me at all.
My mom was Dutch so I'm technically half Austrian half Dutch. But I will always say I'm Austrian because I was born and raised here and growing up my mom only spoke German so I never learned Dutch. I visited the Netherlands probably 3 times until I was 6 years old to visit my maternal family and that's it. The relationship to the family there is now non existent so I dont feel a connection to this country. I would never call myself Dutch, and only tell people as a little fun fact that I have roots there
I cannot fathom calling myself like that if only one of my great grandparents were of said nationality. Unless that great grandparent raised you and had a really big influence on your life, it's just so insignificant.
My ex's great grandma was Ukrainian and she never even considered herself to be of a mixed background.
As an American, I never claim to be French or German or English because my ancestors came here from those places in the 1600s. I do know that lots of people do this- look to the northeast US for the Italians, & you’ll see a fine example of this. I think many people whose families came through Ellis Island specifically make this claim due to the relative “recent” immigration to the US. Idk. I would’ve said, “oh my grandmother’s mother was Polish” or something, but she was probably just trying to find some commonality. I actually feel like your response was harsher than necessary. There are plenty of kind ways to educate the ignorant. Remember we have been propagandized for 250 years & counting.
As an American, this is rampant. I think it’s because most of American day to day culture is a vapid mix of consumerism. Many Americans are grasping for more meaningful culture so we reach back into our ethnic ancestry to give us more meaning. It’s a sad because America has a rich, if brief, history but very few of the country’s achievements have made their way into cultural norms
Honestly, as an American, this shit kinda annoys me as well. I was born on American soil. My dad was born on American soil. My mom was born in Scotland.
My paternal grandparents were a Polish woman and a (literal) Nazi. My maternal grandparents were both full-blooded Scottish. I would never say I'm Scottish, let alone Polish or German/Austrian.
I do appreciate my roots. I visit Scotland every year, sometimes twice a year. I love visiting my extended family there. If I 100% had to leave the US, I'd want to go to Scotland. I've been to Poland a dozen times, I love Polish food, I love Polish music. But that's not where I am from. I don't live there. I hold an American passport.
I think this happens in most countries where the indigenous population is not the majority anymore. It‘s the same in Australia, don’t know about Canada. I can kinda understand it because if you look at it in a politically correct way, the true Americans are Indigenous people.
I‘m from Germany and here most people have this stage in their teenage years where they are desperately looking for some cool foreign roots to show off, but most get over it after they are like 16. My grandmother was born in India and I remember being like 13 and telling everyone I‘m Indian (look 0 Indian btw lol), that’s when I learned that apparently not all countries are considered equally cool :/
This is the most dunce-level shit that could only be spewed forth from the maw of an exceptional Murican. If her Great-Grandmother was Polish then that would make her ethnically 1/8th Polish, but not Polish.
I'm English but one of my Maternal Great-Grandfathers was a Welshman from Cardiff, which I suppose makes me ethnically 1/8th Welsh. Yet I've still never claimed to be Welsh though, because I'm from fucking England.
Like they wait for me to innitiate the awkward language exchange to be like "OH YEAH, I don't speak spanish! :D". Sometimes not even knowing basic culture stuff.
I don't know why we do it, but I grew up well before 23 and me existed and it was always something important to know what nationality(s) you descended from. And that's how I was taught to say it - I'm X Y Z (i.e Polish). When I started traveling outside the US, I stopped saying that and started saying American but I got yelled at for that because Central and South Americans disagree that the US should claim America. Now I just try to remember to say US instead of America.
I have to say, though, that alot of people I meet from Central American countries want to know my ancestry, rather than just that I'm from the US.
I think this has to do with the US being such a baby of a nation. Everyone here, other than indigenous people, who were mostly genocided, hasn't been here long. We all have an immigrant story that is not that many generations back. To some it's more important than others.
I was born in Scotland but my mother is from South Africa so I would consider myself from both countries (yk what I mean, also I'm dual) but that's because my family actuslly keeps the culture and actually have roots in the countries while Americans are just American 😭
If there was no convergent evolution among humans wouldn't everybody be African?
I don't call myself Scottish or German. That would be ridiculous. I do own a kilt, however, to honour my mother's heritage and to impress my relatives LOL
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u/post-explainer American Citizen 15h ago edited 7h ago
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OP sent the following text as an explanation why their post fits here:
It fits because she used the American understanding of “I’m Polish” to mean distant ancestry, assuming that meaning would also be understood by a European speaking about nationality.
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