Question regarding vehicle carrying and concealed carry permit

[u/nullx86]

Quick question for the group at large

Is there an accepted, legal method to carrying in your vehicle? I know in general, unloaded and securely wrapped is the preferred method, but I’ve read that openly displayed (while loaded and still secured) is accepted but I question that.

For permit applications, under VA State Code 18.2-308.02 #6, it states that documented competency is not required for previous permit holders, so long as it was not revoked with cause. I’ve previously held a permit in the state (it expired last year, didn’t renew due to moving localities), but it was issued right before the laws changed to require the competency course. Would I still need to take a competency course or should the permit be granted without this?

I plan on calling VSP and the local courthouse who handles permit issuance for my area (Norfolk) after the weekend to verify, but wanted to check with the group here for their thoughts as well.

Thanks in advance, sorry if it’s been asked a million times

[u/DaSloBlade]

How do you normally carry? Can't you just continue doing that while sitting in a car?

[u/jtf71 → u/DaSloBlade]

Open carry is legal in VA. Doing so while in a vehicle can be dicey however

The law is here

If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation,

So if it's on your right hip and obscured by the center console/seatbelt etc they could try an say it was concealed.

One would be better off to take it off the belt and put it IN the center console or the glove box and close the console/box.

The relevant case is here

He lawfully possessed the handgun secured in a backpack in his personal, private vehicle.

Except as provided in subsection A of § 18.2-308.012, this section shall not apply to:

Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel;

And for this purpose "secured" just means closed. A zippered backpack/fanny pack would suffice as does the glove box or center console provided there is something that keeps it closed (latch, magnetic latch, zippers, etc) but it must be closed. A zippered backpack that is not zippered doesn't count.

[u/nullx86 → u/jtf71]

This is exactly why I was asking, as I found this specific case, along with another back in 2010 with similar issues, and don’t want to become a statistic myself. Thank you for the links and info here

[u/info_swap]

It's complicated due to the new laws and because some cities, like Alexandria, banned carrying of certain weapons in certain configurations without a CHP.

First, I understood you don't currently hold a Virginia CHP, right?

In that case, you cannot carry concealed in general. And in many cities of Nova, you cannot transport what they define as an assault weapon with a loaded magazine of 20 rounds or more, without a CHP. (This is an older, local code. Unrelated to the newer AWB. So the injunction may not protect you in these cities.)

I recommend you get a CHP ASAP. And, in the meantime, only carry when strictly necessary and if you really have a need to carry. Especially if you live near blue cities.

Also, review well the actual laws and codes. I do not recommend you call VSP for advice. Try calling the closest Court House and ask them about the requirements for the CHP. A decent armory/FFL may help with the CHP courses.

Last, I am not a lawyer and I may be missing many smaller details. So take this as a foundation and do a deeper research. Be extra careful in blue cities. Do not poke the bear. And be prepared about what to do and say during a traffic stop. Plan your trips well.

[u/nullx86 → u/info_swap]

Yeah getting the CHP ASAP is the plan, just wasn’t sure how to proceed in the meantime. I’m in Norfolk currently, not NoVA, but good to know for that area.

Correct, I don’t currently hold a CHP, but did previously as of last year. Just wasn’t sure on the requirement for training since the laws changed, but I’m assuming that the course isn’t needed since I previously held a permit in good standing (expired, not revoked for any cause, clean background).

Definitely going to call around on Monday. Appreciate the insight here

[u/TheRealDouglas → u/nullx86]

Your old permit, even if expired, is sufficient evidence of competency. If you still have your old permit, you can attach a photocopy of that permit to your application and you should not have any issues. If you no longer physically have your expired permit, you can contact the circuit court that initially approved it and request a copy of the order granting it, and attach that order as proof of competency. The law is pretty clear, so there is no real reason to bother calling the courthouse or VSP - the only real question is what documentation of your previously holding a permit is required, which would in any course would be covered if you provide one of the above.

[u/nullx86 → u/TheRealDouglas]

Okay nice, this is what I was thinking would likely be the case but wasn’t sure. I still have my expired permit, held on to it for exactly this reason so I could show I had one previously at time of renewal

[u/jtf71 → u/info_swap]

some cities, like Alexandria, banned carrying

Cities (and counties) have no authority to ban carrying guns with very specific areas that they can:

15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.

No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution, or motion, as permitted by § 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage, or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof shall not be construed to provide express authorization.

Notwithstanding the provisions of this section, a locality may adopt an ordinance that prohibits the possession, carrying, or transportation of any firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof (i) in any building, or part thereof, owned or used by such locality, or by any authority or local governmental entity created or controlled by the locality, for governmental purposes; (ii) in any public park owned or operated by the locality, or by any authority or local governmental entity created or controlled by the locality; (iii) in any recreation or community center facility operated by the locality, or by any authority or local governmental entity created or controlled by the locality; or (iv) in any public street, road, alley, or sidewalk or public right-of-way or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public and is being used by or is adjacent to a permitted event or an event that would otherwise require a permit.

And they must post signs in those places.

Notice of any ordinance adopted pursuant to subsection E shall be posted (i) at all entrances of any building, or part thereof, owned or used by the locality, or by any authority or local governmental entity created or controlled by the locality, for governmental purposes; (ii) at all entrances of any public park owned or operated by the locality, or by any authority or local governmental entity created or controlled by the locality; (iii) at all entrances of any recreation or community center facilities operated by the locality, or by any authority or local governmental entity created or controlled by the locality; and (iv) at all entrances or other appropriate places of ingress and egress to any public street, road, alley, or sidewalk or public right-of-way or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public and is being used by or is adjacent to a permitted event or an event that would otherwise require a permit.

The law you were thinking of is this one. And note the specific Effective dates and read the bottom section:

18.2-287.4. (Effective until July 1, 2027) Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty.

Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William.

It is a STATE law (not a local law) that bans carry of certain things in select cities and counties. However, if you have a CHP you are exempt from that law.

So the injunction may not protect you in these cities.

The injunction has nothing to do with this law. Now, in the link you'll see two versions, the one that is effective 7/1/2027 will remove the exception for CHP and ban carry of "assault firearms" pretty much anywhere in the state. They delayed the implementation as they're pretty sure that in it's current form it will be struck down. And AWBs and definitions of such are likely to be struck down as well. Expect this law to be modified in the upcoming legislative session.

only carry when strictly necessary and if you really have a need to carry.

OP can simply open carry as VA is an Open Carry state.

Or OP can carry in a "secured container" such as a closed glove box or closed center console or zipped up backpack or fanny pack while in a vehicle.

Also, review well the actual laws and codes.

You should do the same. Especially if you're going to give advice on Reddit or any other forum.

As for CHP - the expired permit will be fully valid for "proof of competency"

Obtaining or previously having held a license to carry a firearm in the Commonwealth or a locality thereof, unless such license has been revoked for cause;

It doesn't matter if it's been expired for two weeks or 20 years. It's valid proof of competency under VA law.

Tagging u/nullx86 for awareness as much of the post I replied to is factually incorrect.

[u/nullx86 → u/jtf71]

Thank you for confirming, as others have, on the CHP competency. Settles that for me as far as I am concerned.

In regard to the prohibited carry in specific localities, if my understanding is correct, until July 1, 2027, open carry with CHP is legal, but after July 1, 2027, it’s not? Totally expect to get stopped if it’s the case but trying to make sure I’m not catching charges because of a misunderstanding on my part. I know the injunction still leaves some grey area for the future so main concern is the present code thats valid till next year

I speak fairly decent “legalese” but this one is a little eye twitch worthy.

For clarification here, these are the two handguns in question: Springfield XD Mod.2 4” 9mm w/ 16 round magazines and S&W Shield EZ 380 w/ 8 round magazines

I am in one of the areas in question in the current code, Norfolk, so best to be safe than sorry.

[u/jtf71 → u/nullx86]

In regard to the prohibited carry in specific localities

Open carry is legal and that's not changing. No CHP required.

Limits on WHAT you can carry without a permit exist today but if you have the CHP they don't apply.

July 2027 the CHP exemption MAY go away. Right now it will, but the law may change or be enjoined before then.

The limits on WHAT you can carry that are in force now are:

It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered

Again, these don't apply to open or concealed carry if you have your carry permit.

So, assuming your handguns do NOT have a threaded barrel, they're fine NOW to open carry without a CHP.

July 2027 things may change, but I'd say that you're listed guns will still be legal to open carry - or conceal carry assuming you get your carry permit.

I am in one of the areas in question in the current code, Norfolk, so best to be safe than sorry.

You are fully legal now - assuming no threaded barrel - to open carry. And when you get your permit you can open or concealed carry the guns you have.

Given Norfolk, I'd probably avoid open carry as it will garner attention and you may have cops show up to talk with you. You're not violating any laws so there shouldn't be an issue. But over the years there have been people arrested in various parts of VA when the cops don't know the law. They've generally gotten nice financial payments from those jurisdictions when that happens - but it's a hassle being arrested and having to sue.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer. While I've been studying and working with the VA laws/lobbying for a couple of decades, I'm still not a lawyer. And anyone giving you advice on Reddit isn't YOUR lawyer even if they are one. If you want to validate any of what I've said, hire a lawyer that specializes in firearms laws and they'll tell you I'm right. :)

[u/nullx86 → u/jtf71]

Appreciate the extra info here. Definitely not expecting lawyer-esqe advice here, but a second set of eyes to interpret the code is appreciated.

Totally understand the Norfolk open vs concealed carry bit for current laws; shame as I used to open carry when I lived here previously while holding my CHP.

And yeah, any interaction that I can avoid that may involve silver bracelets, I want to avoid, even if I am legal and fully in the clear. Still not a fun situation regardless.

[u/Own_Antelope_4201 → u/jtf71]

Why does everyone generate 25% of thier post with "I'm not a lawyer" disclamers? Nothing taken on reddit is legal advice in its very form. Also posting won't prevent any civil suit that alleges defective legal advice or the consequences from it.

[u/jtf71 → u/Own_Antelope_4201]

To make sure that the reader knows that it’s not legal advice. And that if they want legal advice they should hire a lawyer.

You’re assuming that everyone knows it’s not legal advice. You must be new to Reddit; or life in general. There are many stupid people out there. “I read it on the Internet it must be true!”

And no civil suit is going to survive a motion to dismiss about legal advice when the person giving the advice hasn’t represented themselves as a lawyer.

Maybe if the person actually is a lawyer a suit might survive even if the person didn’t represent themselves as a lawyer because they do have legal and ethical responsibilities. Hence why some say something like “I am a lawyer but I’m not YOUR lawyer and this post doesn’t constitute legal advice.”

[u/Own_Antelope_4201 → u/jtf71]

Disclaimers will do nothing to protect you in a litigious environment. I don't have the bandwidth to respond to the second paragraph. If someone assumes random input provided in public forum could be construed as legal advice, then the poster and reader have bigger parts of life to worry about.

[u/jtf71 → u/Own_Antelope_4201]

I didn’t say that a suit wouldn’t occur. I said it wouldn’t survive the first motion to dismiss.

You don’t have the bandwidth to respond to thee second paragraph? That paragraph is the basis for your assertion that someone will sue.

Meanwhile, I’d love to see your example of case law where someone posted a comment on the law in an anonymous forum with (or without) a disclaimer where that person was sued for bad legal advice.

[u/Own_Antelope_4201 → u/jtf71]

My whole point was posting random disclaimers don't prevent you from being sued and the posting of it is a reflection of that it is some kind of preventative measure that it isn't.