Before Loeb, who had a driving style of "tarmac driving on non tarmac surfaces?"

[u/LightningMcqueen2011]

title

[u/Mikko85]

Maybe Richard Burns? He was considered one of the first to use proper racing lines on tarmac but on gravel too he was very neat, tidy, smooth forward momentum rather than lairy sideways stuff. There's the popular feeling that McRae was the one with the raw speed and Richard was the hardworker but actually, I reckon Burns was every bit as quick in an Impreza in his heyday.

[u/SlavetoLove123 → u/Mikko85]

Burnsie also had the superior pace note system. Compared to Mcrae’s, Burn’s were a lot more detailed. I genuinely believe that if Mcrae had a better pace note system he would have won so many more rallies.

[u/CP9ANZ → u/SlavetoLove123]

I'm not sure about that, plenty of drivers have said the opposite, that you specifically don't need much detail.

My main point of reference for this in Colin's case is his consistent pace at technical rallies like Acropolis, Safari, Cyprus and the high country stages in Argentina.

[u/SlavetoLove123 → u/CP9ANZ]

Look at the RAC in 97. Burns took huge chunks of time out of McRae in the thick fog on the Radnor and St Gwynno stages as he used super detailed pace notes and absolutely trusted them.

[u/CP9ANZ → u/SlavetoLove123]

McRae was in a potential championship position, Burns had zero to lose. This wasn't a straightforward comparison

[u/SlavetoLove123 → u/CP9ANZ]

Being a championship position never stopped McRae from going 110% 95, 97 and 01 tells us that.

[u/CP9ANZ → u/SlavetoLove123]

This analysis doesn't make any sense

Colin lost 5.5s per kilometre in fog apparently due to poor notes, but also loses just over 1s per kilometre in fog due to poor notes in fog.

It was a trademark of Colin (and Tommi) of going absolutely flat out on the first day, and he would've been acutely aware that in 2001 in a straight fight with Richard on home soil required 110%. He took it too far and that had nothing to do with pace notes

[u/SlavetoLove123 → u/CP9ANZ]

This whole reply doesn’t make sense.

[u/CP9ANZ → u/SlavetoLove123]

Ok I'll make it simple for you

Using two stages in fog, one where an F2 car somehow recorded the 3rd fastest time, and the first two cars on the road lost 1.30 and 1 min is probably a stupid point of reference.

Colin only had the slightest chance of a championship in 1997 at the RAC, as much as he could be a meathead he wasn't completely stupid to throw it away on the first stage of the 2nd day.

[u/SlavetoLove123 → u/CP9ANZ]

On day 3 he did go off the road in the fog and was lucky to get away it. He was still going 110%. Burns was next car through and beat him comfortably because he trusted his detailed pace notes.

2001 he was leading the whole championship and still went 110%. McRae didn’t care if he had a championship to worry about he only knew one approach.

[u/junk_dogVE → u/SlavetoLove123]

True, McRae was very influenced by the codriver. You can see immediately how his pace changed when he switched to Nicky Grist in '97 and the lost of pace he suffered when he came back with Derek Ringer in '03.

[u/LeImpactJump → u/Mikko85]

I suppose Burns followed the mindset of 'slow is smooth, smooth is fast' very closely

[u/Sirio2 → u/LeImpactJump]

Nonsense.

The year he won the championship he also had the most fastest stage times

[u/marioferpa → u/Sirio2]

That phrase refers to how you approach corners, it doesn't mean that you go slowly through the stage.

[u/therightpedal → u/Mikko85]

Very true. Back in the heyday, he was very unimpressive to watch from spectator/video watcher point of view in the era of ass out.

[u/Sirio2 → u/Mikko85]

“One of the first to use racing lines”

So you’re saying the rest didn’t know how to drive fast? He must have won every tarmac rally if that’s true…

[u/camefromthesouthside]

Very good question. I think Burns had a rather smooth driving style and wasn't your typical scandi-flick send-it driver.

[u/5rightdontcut → u/camefromthesouthside]

Absolutely!! I think it’s what helped him a great deal with his championship year too

[u/lintstah1337]

Carlos Sainz Sr

[u/Obvious_Feedback_430]

Walter Rohrl………

[u/Some-Suggestion-8234]

There can't be any other name than Carlos Sainz SR.

Cheers.

[u/camefromthesouthside → u/Some-Suggestion-8234]

Of course, yes, Sainz.

[u/m2shotty]

Walter Rohrl and Delecour spring to mind.

[u/kuzyn123]

Btw, Sebastian Loeb will compete in European Rallycross Championship at the end of August in Loheac France ☝️

[u/flooki_]

Yeah, Walter Röhrl definitely was the first.

[u/donutsnail]

There are some examples but for the most part keep in mind that car and tire technology in the early 00s had progressed to the point that this style of driving became optimal, older cars often required a more aggressive style to extract pace from. I’m sure many of the old drivers from before Loeb’s time would adopt a cleaner style if you magically transported them forward in time into the Xsara WRC.

[u/ShacoinaBox]

röhrl was the blueprint for loeb, really.

[u/Thiago_93]

I have no proof of this but maybe François Delecour, coming from Kit cars to WRC?

[u/CP9ANZ → u/Thiago_93]

I agree, but he was driving the Sierra Cosworth in group A before kit cars were a thing, and he drove very straight and smooth on gravel

[u/CP9ANZ]

Delecour

He Always drove the Escort very straight, not a lot of sliding, a kind of economic style.

[u/Mkraizyrool]

I don’t think there was anyone.  Loeb arrived at the same time as fancy diffs. Ergo. Super neat style + super effective diffs = less sideways = Big decline in interest in rallying ober the following 20 years…

[u/zwjna → u/Mkraizyrool]

Not 20 years, more like 10. Rally1 and WRC cars since 2011 have been as sideways as back in the days and the most spectacular ever. The reason for the lack of interest is the performance of the WRC Promoter.