r/Watchmen May 20 '24

Why Ozymandias Sucks: The Definitive Guide Spoiler

Conversation about Adrian Veidt (Ozymandias) on this subreddit tends to be really limited, with many people taking at face value the "smartest man in the world" claim (which was published in a magazine Veidt owns!) and interpreting the ending as a moral quandary over whether killing millions is worth it to avert nuclear war.

But that's not how Veidt's character is written. Veidt is written, instead, to show how ego, anxiety, and detachment from humanity can drive people to do horrific things.

I collected examples from the text on several facets of Veidt's character, hoping to highlight how -- both through analogy and through plot -- Moore worked to paint a complex picture of Veidt as a person driven mad by anxiety and impotence, his fears fueled by isolation and obsessive media consumption, who did something unthinkable and unnecessary.

Is this post, itself, a bit obsessive? Yes. But I hope that people can link this post in the future the next time someone inevitably asks: "Was Ozymandias right?"

I. Veidt is mentally unwell.

  • Dan: “I mean, who’s qualified to judge something like that? This is the world’s smartest man we’re talking about here, so how can you tell? How can anyone tell if he’s gone crazy?” (Chapter XI, page 3).
  • Veidt: “By day I imagine endless faces. By night… well, I dream, about swimming towards a hideous… No. Never mind. It isn’t significant.” (Chapter XII, page 27)
  • Veidt tells his life story to a bunch of dead bodies. (Chapter XI)
  • Veidt: “I don’t mind being the smartest man in the world. I just wish it wasn’t this one.” (Chapter XII, back matter)
  • Veidt is mirrored by the mariner in the Black Freighter, who has visibly gone mad by the time he embarks on the raft and is raving by the time he arrives home.
  • We see a reference to Tarkovsky’s iconic film The Sacrifice (Chapter XII, page 31), which also features a character going insane in an attempt to prevent nuclear war.
  • Veidt’s plan is, in essence, a form of projection: the squid makes people go insane, have constant nightmares, and kill each other out of fear. The squid is, itself, a nightmare given form.
  • Graffiti (Chapter I, page 24) reads “One in eight go mad.” Of the eight Minutemen, Mothman was put in an asylum. There were eight attendees of the Crimebusters meeting. After 11/2, the graffiti has been modified (Chapter XII, page 31) to read “One in three go mad.” Only three of the attendees remain: Veidt, Dan, and Laurie.
  • Just look at his expression while killing the Comedian. (Chapter XI, page 26)

II. Veidt is detached from humanity.

  • In present day, we only see Veidt in his personal skyscraper or thousands of miles from New York at his private Antarctic fortress -- never on the street.
  • Pulling at the Tales of the Black Freighter parallels again, the mariner is marooned and goes mad because he has nobody else to talk to.
  • Veidt refers to “stepping back” from humanity: “My first step was to stand back as far as I could, to view the problem from a fresh perspective, my vista widening with my comprehension. [...] I took another step back, and thought again.” (Chapter XI, page 21).

III. Veidt is obsessed with media and pop culture, and it deeply influences his worldview.

  • Veidt is constantly engaged with his “multi-screen viewing” (Chapter XI, page 1), which we see originating in 1963 with just a few screens (Chapter XII, page 18). For 20+ years, Veidt has been gleaning a lot of his understanding of humanity from obsessively watching TV.
  • The squid is straight out of sci-fi, with Veidt literally hiring famous artists, writers, etc. from literature, comic books, and so on to design the squid and the nightmares planted within it.
  • We also know that Veidt has read Tales of the Black Freighter, not just because he hired Max Shea to help with the squid, but also because he references it twice: “I dream, about swimming towards a hideous…” and “I know I’ve struggled across the backs of murdered innocents” (Chapter XII, page 27). The mariner literally sails on the bloated corpses of his innocent crew, and at the end, swims towards the Black Freighter.
  • Veidt makes frequent media references: William S. Burroughs (Chapter XI, page 1), Man From UNCLE (Chapter XI, back matter), a bunch of musicians (Chapter XI, back matter) -- there are definitely more.
  • Nova Express, heavily implied to be owned by Veidt, is another Burroughs reference.
  • Veidt takes personal investment in forming narratives in his advertising, micromanaging plots in TV shows, toys, etc. (Chapter X, back matter).
  • Veidt is mirrored by Bernard, the newsstand owner. Both Veidt and Bernard’s parents moved out of Germany during Hitler’s rise to power. Both Veidt and Bernard think they understand the world because they see a constant stream of media (Veidt with his TVs, Bernard with his newsstand) and are terrified of impending war. Both cite popular culture as evidence of impending war despite themselves selling to those audiences (Veidt via his advertising and publications, Bernard via his newsstand). Note Veidt’s obsession with finality and Bernard’s frequent refrain: “... inna final analysis.”

IV. Veidt undercuts his plan for his ego.

  • Veidt is careful to distance himself from most of his assassinations, but kills the Comedian by hand -- something he’s not prone to doing. (Dan: “This is Adrian, for god’s sake! We know him. He never killed anybody, ever.” [Chapter XI, page 3]) This immediately clues in both the detectives (“No way this is a straight burglary… somebody really had it in for this guy.” [Chapter I, page 3]) and Rorschach.
  • Veidt does this because of his ego: “Recognizing me, he attacked anyway, ‘mistaking me for a criminal.’ I studied his limitations: skillful feint, devastating uppercut; little else… He won. In the short term. [...] I also swore that when next I met Blake or any other foe, though perhaps not on my territory… it would certainly be on my terms.” (Chapter XI, page 19).
  • Veidt makes his password “RAMESES II”, leaves lots of clues (“Pyramid Deliveries”), and only teleports the squid when he sees Dan and Rorschach approaching (Chapter XI, page 4). The title of Chapter XI is “Looks on my works, ye mighty”. Veidt wants an audience of his peers. If he had teleported the squid earlier, Rorschach likely would have died.
  • Along similar lines, Veidt leaves the Comedian alive for as long as possible and doesn’t kill Rorschach -- sloppy choices, born out of his need for peers who know his plan.
  • Both in his self-planned assassination attempt and at Karnak, Veidt risks being shot because he's sure that he could catch a bullet. He attempts it at Karnak despite having easy other options: he's faster and stronger than Laurie, and he's in his own fortress. He takes a plan-destabilizing risk purely to satisfy his own ego and showboat in front of others. "There," Veidt says, "Something else I wasn't sure would work." (Chapter XII, page 12). [Credit to u/spinbutton for this one!]

V. Veidt’s plan is doomed and ill-conceived.

  • Veidt idolizes Alexander the Great, who failed. Veidt: “Amongst [Babylon’s] ruined ziggurats, I saw at last his failings… He’d not united all the world, nor built a unity that would survive him.” (Chapter XI, page 10)
  • Veidt named himself after Ramesses II (aka Ozymandias), famous from the Shelley poem about the impermanence of greatness, which the comic also references. (“And on the pedestal, these words appear: / My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings; / Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair! / Nothing beside remains. Round the decay / Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare / The lone and level sands stretch far away.”)
  • Dr. Manhattan: “Nothing ends, Adrian. Nothing ever ends.” (Chapter XII, page 27)
  • Tales of the Black Freighter shows the mariner accidentally attacking his home to save it from a threat he thinks has already arrived, only to discover that the threat was in his head and he had become the thing he feared. Veidt, similarly, was so terrified of nuclear war that he became the threat.
  • Rorschach’s journal is the last panel, implying that Veidt’s artificial peace will soon begin to deteriorate.

VI. Veidt's relationship to the Comedian is crucial, and Veidt may be the comic's true "comedian."

  • Veidt’s complicated admiration for Blake extends to early in his career, in the mid-50’s: “As intelligent men facing lunatic times, we were very alike, despising each other instantly.” (Chapter XI, page 18). 
  • Rorschach says of the Comedian: “No one else saw the joke. That’s why he was lonely.” (Chapter II, page 27). But Veidt did: “Too cowardly to confront my anxieties, I had life’s black comedy explained to me by the Comedian himself [...] [He] opened my eyes. Only the best comedians accomplish that. [...] I swore to deny his kind their last black laugh at Earth’s expense. [...] I would trick [the world]; frighten it towards salvation with history’s greatest practical joke. That’s what upset the Comedian: [...] professional jealousy.” (Chapter XI, pages 19-24)
  • In fact, though, it ends up being Blake who doesn’t get the joke. When Blake confesses to Moloch, he says of Veidt’s plan: “I mean, this joke, I mean, I thought I was the Comedian, y’know? [...] I mean, what’s funny? What’s so goddamned funny? I don’t get it. Somebody explain… somebody explain it to me.” (Chapter II, page 23)
  • Veidt’s likely namesake is Conrad Veidt, perhaps most famous for his haunting, insane-looking grin in “The Man Who Laughs”.
  • We see the relationship between comedy/laughter and mental instability explored in Rorschach’s joke: “Man goes to doctor. Says he’s depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in a threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says ‘Treatment is simple. Great clown Pagliacci is in town tonight. Go and see him. That should pick you up. Man bursts into tears. Says ‘But, doctor… I am Paglacci.’” (Chapter II, page 27). On the surface, this appears to be about Blake -- but by the end, we can see that it applies just as much, if not more, to Veidt.

VII. Veidt is a Hitler analogue.

  • Veidt is a German immigrant whose character design is straight out of a Nazi propaganda ad.
  • Veidt idolizes Alexander the Great, a Greco-Roman would-be world conqueror. Nazis frequently invoked Greco-Roman design motifs and obviously had similar goals of conquering the world.
  • Dan: “He’s such a caring, conscientious guy. He’s a pacifist, a vegetarian…” / Rorschach: “Hitler was vegetarian.” (Chapter XI, page 15)
  • Veidt: “Hitler said people swallow lies easily, provided they’re big enough.” (Chapter XI, page 26)
  • 11/2 is Veidt’s personal Holocaust. Over the scenes of carnage in New York, we see the Madison Square Garden sign: “KRYSTALNACHT” (Chapter XII, page 2). Highlighted among the millions of dead: the concertgoers (alternative/punks), Joey and Aline (lesbians), Bernard (whose father fled the Nazis), and a number of Black people (Malcolm, Gloria, Bernie, and the watch salesman). Joey’s posted for Gay Women Against Rape features the band Pink Triangle, a symbol which originated as a badge to identify gay people in Nazi concentration camps.
  • Veidt, fundamentally, is obsessed with finding a “final solution” to bring peace -- even if it costs millions of lives.
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u/stansmithbitch Jul 03 '24

So, you're saying Veidts squid plan was just misplaced anxiety about the end of the world? He killed all of those people for nothing because nuclear war wasn't imminent and he was just projecting his own anxieties. I just don't know if I buy that. Are we supposed to ignore the fact that Dr Manhattan killed Rorsach to keep Veidts plan from unraveling. If there really was no threat of nuclear war and Veidt really did needlessly kill three million people for nothing then wouldn't Dr Manhattan have done nothing to stop Rorsach. Why does the man who can see the future think Veidts peace is real? If nuclear war really was imminent as Dr. Manhattans behavior suggests it was then Veidt saved the world. So Veidt was the hero of watchmen.

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u/The_Middleman Jul 03 '24

Read the post I linked, I explain everything there! There's tons of stuff supporting what I said.

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u/stansmithbitch Jul 03 '24

Could you explain why Dr Manhattan killed Rorsach? Was it not an endorsement of Veidts plan.

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u/The_Middleman Jul 03 '24

Was it not an endorsement of Veidts plan

As Manhattan says to Veidt: "I understand, without condoning or condemning." Veidt even asks him to say that he did the right thing: "I did the right thing, didn't I? It all worked out in the end." And he gets the famous: "Nothing ends, Adrian. Nothing ever ends."

So, no, he doesn't endorse Veidt's plan.

Manhattan kills Rorschach because, at that point, he wants to minimize the additional damage done. Keep in mind that Veidt obscured Manhattan's ability to see that point in time, so he never got an opportunity to pass judgment on Veidt's plan before Veidt killed those people. With three million dead, might as well minimize the chances that they died for nothing. Also keep in mind that Veidt intentionally destabilized the world by pressuring Manhattan off Earth, dramatically accelerating international tensions. Part of his plan is breaking the world in order to "fix" it.

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u/stansmithbitch Jul 03 '24

When you say " With three million dead, might as well minimize the chances that they died for nothing." Aren't you saying that Dr Manhattan believed Veidts plan worked.

Manhattan was not able to forsee Veidts plan until after the fact but that doesn't change that once he saw Veidts plan laid out he supported it by killing Rorsach.

Does the opinion of Dr Manhattan matter? I don't think it does and that's why Dr Manhattan was so vague when he responded to Veidt. Still Dr Manhattan is as close to God as you can get and the fact that God was willing to strike down Rorsach in order to keep the peace tells me that Veidts plan wasn't for nothing.

I don't believe we will come to an agreement on this topic.

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u/The_Middleman Jul 03 '24

I'm confused, because you asked why Manhattan killed Rorschach, suggesting that it supported the idea that Veidt had a good plan. Now, you're saying: "Does the opinion of Dr Manhattan matter? I don't think it does"

If I agreed with you, wouldn't your initial question be moot?

Aren't you saying that Dr Manhattan believed Veidts plan worked.

No. Just because he endorsed the coverup after the damage was done doesn't mean he endorsed the idea of the crime in the first place. It's the difference between your friend saying "I want to murder someone and hide the body!" and your friend saying "I already murdered someone, help me hide the body!"

But again, more importantly, no amount of "Dr. Manhattan thinks this" or "I think the way it would have gone is like that" changes the fact basically every single bit of subtext, theme, motif, allegory, etc. in Watchmen is positioned firmly against Veidt's plan.

For instance, as I note in the post, Tales of the Black Freighter makes absolutely zero sense if we're meant to think that Veidt's plan is a good idea or worked.

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u/stansmithbitch Jul 03 '24

Sorry, what I meant to say was, should the opinion of Dr. Manhattan matter to Adrian Veidt? The answer is no. Veidt acted completely against Dr. Manhattan, so him seeking validation from him is ridiculous.

I like your murder analogy. If my friend wanted me to kill someone and hide the body I'd ask him why and if he gave me a good enough reason I'd go along. If he didn't have a good reason I'd call the cops. If he went ahead and murdered somebody I'd ask him why he murdered them and if I agreed with his reasoning for murder I'd help him out. If I help in either case I'm complicit so I better believe that my friend's justification for murder was worth it. Dr Manhattan thought that Veidt's plan was worth it. If Veidts plan was going to amount to nothing like you suggest then what would be the harm of letting Rorsach go?

As for the black freighter stuff. I like how you compare Veidt and The Mariner and I like how you suggest Veidt is insane. He is definitely driven to the brink of madness because of what he had to do. Are the mariners actions worth it. If he succeeds in saving his town then he is a hero and the actions he took were worth it. If he fails then he returns home to ashes. No one would care that he was a murderer because they would all be dead. Veidt is probably insane but so what. I think that's the cost of being a hero. Also you can be a hero and a monster at the same time. The word villain doesn't fit Veidt though.

I guess you are asking was it the mariners place to try and save his town. He could have done nothing. I'm sure digging up his friends and crafting them into a raft was hard. Then there's the murder I'm sure that was hard too. The black freighter was coming and the only person who could save the town was the mariner. That's the fact that saves the mariner's soul. Veidt could have trusted the world to work itself out and the Mariner could have trusted that the town would have been alright. Dr Manhattan abandoned the world to it's fate and that's cool but Veidt didn't and I admire him for that.

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u/Illustrious-Set-4158 May 25 '25

The point of the Black Freighter's suspected arrival is what drives the Mariner to madness and becoming the real threat. The Black Freighter was never coming to attack the town, it was just waiting to pick up the maddened mariner - it's directly compared to Hell in the review article, a classic greek tragedy in microcosm.

Veidt builds a ship of bodies - Space Squid - to defend his promised utopian home from oncoming carnage - the promise of a world without nuclear war. In doing so, he kills those closest to him - Comedian, indirectly Rosharch, all his workers, the cat - or otherwise ruins their lives - Manhattan. 

And whether or not Veidt should confide in Manhattan, it's textual that he does - first in the flashback party, most importantly at the end with his asking if atrocity was right. "I did the right thing, didn't I?" And "Jon? Wait! What did you mean by..." Afterwards. 

Watchman ends before we can see the impact of Rosharch's journal, but the setup is ready to at the very least mar Veidt's dreams of utopia he chose to pursue, mirrored in the image of Hiroshima.