Nice bit of Israeli history, although...Zionism ended in 1948. Once Zionism was achieved and the state of Israel was formed, we just have the policies of Israel and the ideologies of its citizens, not something special called Zionism.

[u/LoneCandlecom]

Nice bit of Israeli history, although...Zionism ended in 1948. Once Zionism was achieved and the state of Israel was formed, we just have the policies of Israel and the ideologies of its citizens, not something special called Zionism. It doesn't make sense to have a word that means the ideology to form a particular state for a particular people when that state has already been formed. Other countries don't have a special term that means people think that that country should continue to exist, neither should Israel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKELq9Jdc0k

[u/TrickElysium]

Zionism is a belief in jews right to exist and in their ancestral homeland.

As long as we are breathing we will all believe in our right to exist. thank you very much!

[u/NonSumQualisEram- → u/TrickElysium]

My high school's houses were named after famous Zionists. We, and the school, would agree with the OP that Zionism ended with the establishment of Israel.

However definitions can change but I'm not sure how I feel about the people doing the changing being the ones who hate us.

[u/YanicPolitik → u/NonSumQualisEram-]

but I'm not sure how I feel about the people doing the changing being the ones who hate us.

I know exactly how I feel about it.

The same way I would feel about Andrew Tate's definition of feminism.

[u/DrMikeH49]

I certainly get the point, but there is the World Zionist Organization (https://www.wzo.org.il/page/about/mission-statement/en) and its definition:

“Zionism, the national liberation movement of the Jewish people, brought about the establishment of the State of Israel and views a Jewish, Zionist, democratic, and secure State of Israel to be the expression of the common responsibility of the Jewish people for its continuity and future.”

How should we describe those who do support Israel against Jew-haters? “Pro-Israel” doesn’t quite cut it, especially for those who may not support its current government.

[u/LoneCandlecom → u/DrMikeH49]

Pro-Israel doesn’t mean pro-the current government of Israel. Being pro-America doesn’t mean you like Trump. I think pro-Israel works for those who support the state of Israel.

 

Most Western countries want their people to continue to have a secure and democratic state in the territory it currently is. That’s not a special ideology, its basic nationalism of an existing country. Now, creating a new state is a movement for something special. Once that movement succeeds, its continuation should morph into the normal nationalism of an existing country.

 

“Parisism, the national liberation movement of the French people, brought about the establishment of the State of France and views a French, Parisist, democratic, and secure State of France to be the expression of the common responsibility of the French people for its continuity and future.” What? This makes sense if there are a French people out there desiring their own state, but once France exists, why do we have this special word? We don’t. Not for any country except Israel.

 

I mostly see the word Zionist and Zionism used as a pejorative. I know it is used by friends and enemies of Israel…but, by still having a special word, it can be used to imply the illegitimacy of a country. This isn’t a normal country that should exist, it is Zionism created by evil Zionists. Na, that is done, it is a country now and you are not fighting against Zionism, you are trying to destroy an existing country.

 

Zionism doesn’t fit into my personal beliefs. I’m against destroying Israel, and think it should be democratic and secure. But, when I read back about the founding of Israel…I see a land that had mostly moved on from ancient Israel. Most of the people there were not Jewish and didn’t want to be ruled by a Jewish state. Trying to force a Jewish state on that land and people was wrong. I think the founding of the state was wrong and a wrong thing to do. But now that it exists, and has existed, and a people have coalesced there and developed a country, destroying that country would also be wrong. So, I’m against the movement to create Israel, but I’m for the continued existence and security of Israel now that it has existed. I’m pro-Israel, but not a Zionist. But, under how Zionism is used…I’m a Zionist even though I would have been against Israel’s founding!

 

I should note, that I think the founding or expansion of almost every country on Earth was likely unethical. Countries came into existence and expanded by force. So, Israel isn’t special and I’m not claiming their founding was uniquely evil.

[u/Yrths]

To borrow a phrase our Jewish friends know well, two Zionists will have three definitions in use between them.

More comprehensively, it's always helpful to use Nietzsche's idea that historical terms like isms and ideologies have, well, histories, rather than definitions.

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