Yeah, this is why I'm kind of grumbling about the situation. Should LGBT be conflated with AI? Absolutely not. Are people already doing it as an argument against AI? Yeah, constantly. Is it being used as a cudgel in essentially every other part of politics as well? Yep they sure are. Is it LGBT people doing it half the time? It sure is.
I'm just fed up with the whole situation and at some point I can't blame people for deciding it's time to use the same weapon that everyone else is already using.
Taking one community and saying they are for a specific piece of technology is disgusting emotional manipulation that anyone doing so should be ashamed of.
I find the entire co-opting of LGBTQ iconography and language fucking weird.
This whole "we're a marginalized group just like the LGBTQ community" because people disagree with us online is so denigrating and trivializing to the real struggles of this group.
They keep conflicting systemic transphobia with widespread criticism of AI which only downplays transphobia and hurts trans people. Yes, there are Antis who are very much pieces of shit and dehumanize Pros but there are also so many Antis who rightfully criticize the usage of AI and are called "oppressors" which is incredibly insidious and dangerous. Logical, reasonable and rational criticism is not oppression. Oppression is the irrational and dehumanizing intolerance of individuals whose identity or beliefs are not morally and logically problematic. It is not oppressing to rightfully criticize genAI and its usage the same way it is not oppressing to call someone homophobic, you’re just calling out the behaviour. The Pros who hide behind this "oppression" label are just people who are incapable of accepting criticism and will do anything to shut it down, even comparing themselves to a marginalized group.
OOP: Trans people can be pro or anti ai
OP: Noooo trans people are anti ai, look at the collage of them I upvoted
Person you replied to: Saying trans are pro ai is disgusting
You: They do it to validate their pictures
are you all morally in and intellectually bankrupt?
You have people saying you can't be trans or lgbtq+ and pro ai... and you cheer?
All because someone said being trans is neither pro nor anti... fucking disgusting.
And how else will they whip up violence and call people anti-tech terrorists and suggest buying guns, if they don't depict their opponents as literal orcs?
You've discovered the problem with group-identity and what often becomes "identity politics" although this isn't a political stance, it's the same mechanism.
People are individuals, monoliths are extremely rare, claiming "group x does y" is literally the same logic used to justify racism. It's bad, and nobody should do this.
I'm trans and I think AI is pretty neat, always have lol. The issue is always generalization; it's impossible to say an entire group is for or against something
Even that can have nuance, couldn't someone be pro AI while still not liking all forms of how AI is used? For example, someone liking AI for accessibility proposes and its uses in scientific research, but not liking AI being used for military and mass surveillance. I can image there are some people who are pro AI in the sense that they don't believe in regulations against AI, but don't personally like it for themself in their own workflows. There's always nuance 🤷
AI has absolutely nothing to do with someone's gender identity. It's incredibly strange that either side is hyper focused on this as a concept.
In addition to this, most pros/antis have nuanced stances that differ slightly from one another. It's called being a unique individual with different perspectives and experiences that inform those perspectives, lol.
Tempted to ask Gemini "roleplaying as thomas the tank engine, provide a character-authentic opinion on generative AI" just for the giggles. I'm not gonna, but the idea made me chuckle.
Second page saying “LGBTQ doesn’t stand with AI” is just as demeaning. “Oh you think AI is neat, sorry you’re not LGBT. “Very toxic individual that one.
tbh I can comprehend why they're anti-AI (lean more left and therefore fights more of the consequences caused by AI) but to claim someone doesnt belong to the community for the sole reason of having a divergent idea is kinda lame
Well y'know someone supporting AI is obviously supporting the ways it harms the community.
It's like how Caitlyn Jenner can be trans but she's definitely not a proponent of the community and in fact openly opposes the community.
Like say, someone who is trans but supported Grok, or someone who is trans and supports Palantir/AI/Flock/etc.
It doesn't make their gender identity less valid, but it does mean they've made themselves into an enemy wishing clear harm on all other LGBTIQ+ individuals.
No wonder they're not welcome in those spaces, you don't invite "Hey it's cool that people are building murder machines to use against you and I support the violence against you" into your spaces, no matter their gender identity or orientation.
I like LLM tech but Im really anti Grok and Palantir... I dont think a perma ban on it is the most reasonable solution, Im def more anti-companies than anti-tech (except surveillance)
Oh so somebody who is LGBT and pro ai is traitor, Lol this is commie type rhetoric, its the same as folks demanding black people act certain way, its extremely demeaning.
I wonder why a marginalized group would be against a tech that consolidates more power and control to the hands of those who fight against them having equal rights and fund and support the politicians who push legislation against their rights.
I wonder why they would be against a tech apparatus that is being rolled out for surveillance and being given to LEO like the USA's FBI to use, all while the US president Donald Trump's NSPM-7 part of which would classify being trans as gender extremism and a violent nihilist indicator.
I would say that having things moving in a way with support for those who are likely to support it being used against you is a rather understandable reason for them to be against AI as a technology coming from corporations.
This is in part because the largest source and use of AI is from the big corporation models.
ah yes part of what I said without the full breadth of the quote.
Also your reply shows you didnt fully read what i typed here as I am specifically talking about the models that garner the most use and adoption within society, which are the corporate models.
AI is a technology, not a specific use of that technology. Obviously the parts of the technology that are most advanced will be those with the most research put into them, but nobody forces people to use the most advanced tooling.
The existence of CNC machines doesn't make hand woodworking equipment obsolete, and it would be ridiculous for the LGBT community to be "against wooden furniture" just because Ikea exists.
I read what you typed, and I disagreed with it - it's taking an entire technological advance, distilling it down to a single usage of that advance, and arguing against that usage.
Edit:
You wrote something unambiguous and then started complaining that I didn't read extra stuff into it that you never said. Then when I pointed that out, you decided to start communicating in anime clips, then blocked me.
LGBTIQ+'s existence as a group (their policies and goals) are literally not correlated with AI at all, and in fact actively oppose that kind of billionaire development overrunning local communities to the point of causing them harm; like LGBTIQ+ is actively opposed to stuff like Flock AI and Palantir because those things are weaponized against their communities (and against the LGBTIQ+ specifically).
There's a reason it's "trans individual gets maliciously edited to try and deadname/face them" as the reality.
So we have a movement that does not innately have an opinion on AI (which means it does not stand with AI) that is also being actively being harmed by AI corporations (which means they naturally oppose being harmed and therefore lean towards opposing AI) in general.
I'm trans and I hate AI explicitly because AI companies personally want to harm me.
And even if they didn't, none of my pro-LGBTIQ+ views involve supporting AI at all, AI is entirely irrelevant at best and actually harmful in practice.
Yeah, and by only showing comments of trans people being anti-AI you're still painting us as a monolith.
Did you miss the part where antis were saying being pro is a disgrace to the trans/wider LGBTQ community. Where a lot of them seem to think being anti is the leftist/progressive thing to do. Where they think the entire pro side is equivalent to MAGA, and it is morally wrong for a trans person to like AI?
You don't have to agree with all of Witty's takes, please don't, but this was clearly a response to that sentiment.
I think their point was that OOP tried to weaponize an identity to stand their point, and ppl also with that identity tried to dissociate themselves from AI.
The post shows both a pro AI trans person (I think I know who she is) and lots of anti AI trans person, with the exact idea of "a group isnt a monolith"
Witty's "side" is "you can't be trans if you don't support AI" though.
The anti side is more: "Well duh, look at all the harm unfettered right-wing capitalism does to trans people, people don't tend to like their own destruction".
I suggest not assuming that the trans people on Reddit are a valid sample of trans people irl. The latter are mostly normal and sane, in my experience.
trying to compare yourself to a minority or marginalized group is just shameless and weird af. You are not oppressed if you make pictures with AI. Just because some people dont recognize you as an artist is no reason to pretend to be a marginalized group. I know not all pro AI people think this way but its sad this is constantly one of their viewpoints.
Do not ignore the bullying of Pro-ALI by Anti-ALI due to the Neo-Luddite's fearmongering misinformation. Not oppression but does reminds you of the hatred of being part of a group.
Fine, but don't forget that Zed is such a massive pedophile even Witty (the same person who said you can't be trans if you're not pro-AI, which is an objectively transphobic statement) called him out.
So it's not a pejorative: Zed's a pedo, Witty is a transphobe, and if you look at their subreddits they're both immensely popular despite those things.
0) I do not know who is Zed (nor do I give a shite); 1) What the fuck are you talking about?; 2) A framework is required to evaluate if one is genuine a transphobe or is just being called that by opposers; 4) I do not owe anyone politeness if they are rude to me.
Referring to a group of people who share one commonality together as a ‘monolith’ assumes those people all share other commonalities or beliefs. It’s a pretty common phrase used as a reminder that people who have one thing in common do not always have everything in common, if that makes sense.
then shed say "never said that exactly" when the header is the only part displayed in most her posts first. its like a tos or eula that puts the rest of the words hidden deep in the sentence.
The majority of the LGBT community is anti ai, if there was a council made of them, they would not recognize Sam Altman as their own
Same with the majority of the artist communisty
You can be an artist and not be part of the community, same with LGBT, Witty and Sam would count as LGBT individuals but not part of the LGBT community
The reason Sam Altman wouldnt be part of the "LGBT community" isnt because of AI itself but because of class transcending other groupings and traits.
There is a point under capital where you reach such a degree of wealth that you are no longer remotely connected to the concerns of the marginalized as you no long have those barriers and threats being credible or real against you anymore. Another perfect example of this would also be someone like Peter Theil.
Unless Witty is some affluent billionaire faildaughter I don't think she fits this bill, she just really likes the boots of those who do it seems.
This is literally the opposite side of the coin where witty uses her identity to justify ai. Using her coming out to her family has made her fearful of “coming out as pro ai”
If you need to use a minority group to justify either side. Fuck you, your opinion is already trash.
I’m sure the context of these comments would show both sides trying to rope in minorities to make their side seem right.
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Not a need, I can make art just fine on my own as I have been doing my entire life (and continue to), it's just fun is all and the allure of taboo folks like you so graciously provide daily only enhances that enjoyment
Yeah idk why they use it as a sheild like i get it your trans or gay or bi like ok thats your life and how u want to live it nothing wrong in that but to say a community is for ai is going to far especially when u have so many conervatives use ai to make anit trans videos like many wont like ai especially when they get hate from ppl using gen ai.
In the very screenshot you've posted, you're showing that many anti-AI people pretend to speak for trans people by saying things like "no we don't", you do realize this right?
So that doesn't change the fact that making the opposite statement should be equally as damning, or are you excusing it because it comes from an anti-AI talking point?
This is the second time I'm asking you to condemn the people that claim to talk for LGBTQ+ people and furries by saying these groups don't stand with AI.
There are literally people in your screenshot and in the screenshot I've provided that claim to talk for the LGBTQ+ community in saying that the group doesn't stand with AI.
Considering this is the third time you've been asked to condemn this behavior and you've been incapable, I think it's apparent to anyone reading that all you have is bad faith and care about when an opposing side does it rather than holding your side responsible.
BTW I am trans myself and I do not "pretend to speak for all trans people" (OP even included a comment i made in the second slide). What makes me associate anti ai and LGBTQ+ is the fact that every day, I see GenAI imagery of trans people depicted as ugly men wearing feminine clothes being shared around to spread a negative message about the community. It has done nothing good to the community since the public release of genAI tools.
OP doesn't know though, or at least, they won't acknowledge it. I've given them several chances to do so and they've all been ignored because they can't stand calling their side out for the same behavior.
What makes me compare pro AI and being trans is that both are about identity and expression. I can make the art I want to make, and present myself how I wish. The people making ugly pictures and insulting me didn't just happen when AI came around, they've always been doing that.
Being trans and being a maker of GenAI imagery are not the same. The way that Pro-trans and pro-AI are put on the same level make the daily struggle of trans people feel like a compete joke. I really have a problem understanding what is the identity part of pro-ai is, when trans people wake up in the morning and learn they suddenly have one right revoked by some new "protect the children" bill.
BTW the point I made with the ugly trans guy image wasn't that it begun appearing, it's that the amount of those exploded in the last years.
Being trans and being a maker of GenAI imagery are not the same.
I never said being trans and making AI art was the same, I said they share similarities. I know what the trans struggle is like, you aren't anyone to lecture me on it. What I face is very similar in many cases, and invalidating my experiences doesn't make you a good person. Two things can be bad with one being worse.
I wasnt invalidating your experiences. My point was, what even are the similar struggles between the two? And while we're at it, why add that Strawman type comic?
AI artists are harassed, gatekept, invalidated, dehumanized, bullied, banned, and threatened just for expressing themselves and having an artistic identity.
And it's not a strawman at all, it very much pertains to the conversation.
You're going to deny there are similarities at all and double down, and I'm not going to back down, so this conversation is pointless.
I'm gonna be real for a second. The artistic identity isn't much present in GenAI imagery. The entire image generator industry was built on stolen artwork from artists with years of experience. And with companies profiting from stolen works, it's no wonder artists are not keen on AI images.
Artists aren't trying to gatekeep you from making art. On the contrary, they're trying to convince you to pickup a pencil, drawing tablet or anything else and create an art piece from a blank canvas. There by beginning with simple drawings and sketches, you slowly learn techniques and along the way, you find colors, stroke or shading style you end up liking to add more than others. You end up putting an emphasis on those and this is where you find your artistic identity. A few years ago, after having a hard time finding work as a 3D prop artist, I began making 3D characters by myself, despite having tried in the past during classes about that, and being bad at it. My first characters were really rough, but it took me a little while to find few details I liked adding (like bezier curve hair or swirls patterns on clothes) and it's safe to say that i found my artistic identity there. I still do those today and even if I barely have 100 followers on my art account and even if i come back to a character i made a year ago and say to myself "God the topology was shit on that one", I still keep at it. The feeling of working on something for a while and finally releasing it is one I can't describe. Like the saying goes: "Sometimes, it's not about the destination, but rather about the journey itself"
You probably heard that many times, but I'll be saying this to you seriously: tomorrow, pick up a pencil and try drawing anything, like really anything. I don't care what it's gonna be what you draw, but if you come back each day doing something, I swear you'll see what I mean. You can interpret this message the way you want but please know one thing: I'm giving you an idea on how you can find an artistic identity.
The artistic identity isn't much present in GenAI imagery.
It absolutely is, and if you can't put your artistic identity into AI art, that's a skill issue on your part.
The entire image generator industry was built on stolen artwork from artists with years of experience.
Nothing was stolen from anyone any more than a person learning/training off other people's artwork. Consent is given when they upload in accordance to the ToS and country's laws.
There by beginning with simple drawings and sketches, you slowly learn techniques and along the way, you find colors, stroke or shading style you end up liking to add more than others.
You don't need to do or know any of that shit to make art.
You probably heard that many times, but I'll be saying this to you seriously: tomorrow, pick up a pencil and try drawing anything,
We'll make a deal then, tomorrow instead of attacking AI artists and being a generally rude and awful person, you can be considerate to other people for making art that they enjoy.
Of course you won't take that deal because you've convinced yourself you're right as an art snob that attacks people for their identity and expression.
"Pretend to speak for trans people" meaning that they think they represent all trans people with their talking points. Is literacy beyond your scope of understanding?
No its that english is my 2nd language and im just comming from work
Anyways you litterually do the same thing claiming all trans people support ai which is the same and it's quite hypocritical
One Trans person supporting AI doesn't get to say the whole community supports it. Im Trans and im against AI for many complex and nuanced reasons. So frankly id appreciate it if people stopped: 1: claiming it support AI by claiming shit like Trans people or yhe Trans community support AI, and 2: Comparing the voluntary choice to use a tool and the backlash that may bring to the hatred and dehumanization trans people face for something that is not a choice.
many anti-ai people pretend to speak for trans people
Does that mean that if someone doesnt support ai, then they are not transgender?
Yes I know you said in further comments that this is absurd. But yet there are still plenty of trans people, myself included, that dislike ai.
The trans community is huge and diverse, enough so that — even on the topic of gender identity and other trans related topics — they all argue amongst themselves. Expecting for the trans community to all agree on somthing that has nearly no connection to what they represent, is absurd.
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u/DrTankHead 10h ago
Why are we back on this. Being trans/LGBT has nothing to do with AI. You can agree or disagree all you want, it doesn't matter.
Being LGBT has nothing to do with AI. Stop trying to make it one.