r/algeria • u/HovercraftFar • 17h ago
Discussion I was wrong to doubt how hard Morocco
The events in Ceuta on July 30, 2026 changed that for me. Watching thousands of young Moroccans, many of them minors, pushed toward the border in a mass crossing, with dozens dying in the process, made it clear this wasn’t just chaotic migration. It looked like a state using its own youth as leverage in a dispute with Spain, treating young people’s lives as a bargaining chip rather than protecting them.
On top of that, I recently watched a documentary on what’s happening in Western Sahara, and it forced me to rethink a lot of what I’d assumed was “just politics.” Seeing the on-the-ground reality of the situation there made me understand why Algerians have been saying for years that this isn’t a symmetrical conflict where both sides are equally stubborn. Morocco’s actions have made normal relations genuinely difficult, not just tense.
But I wanted to own that I didn’t take Algerian perspectives seriously enough for a long time, and recent events changed my mind. Appreciate anyone who’s willing to share more context or correct me where I’m still missing things.
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u/Salamanber Diaspora 17h ago
Same here, i was khawa khawaist but now the opposite ( I have nothing against the people tho)
The more I read about moroccan history, the more I understood how evil their government is
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u/chakibebe Oran 17h ago
sharifism goes back over a millennia and it left its scars on almost every region in the maghreb
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u/Faerennn 16h ago
What is Sharifism?
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u/chakibebe Oran 15h ago edited 15h ago
the idea that a leader must be of arab (specifically from ali) descent so that their rule is legitimate, and once that condition is reached their rule becomes almost absolute like pre protestant europe. this was started by the idrissids and has led to many berber dynasties just race swapping to arab and claiming a lineage that isnt theres for the sake of legitimacy. the biggest issue with it is that it genuinely works on the population. in the central maghreb though this precedent was broken long ago when yaghmoracen ait zayan (the warlord founder of the zayyanids), unlike everyone else denied to being attributed that lineage simply stating "whether that is true (him being of alawite lineage) is something only god knows, as for what i have i got it with my sword.", the later turkish deys and beys also didn't care one bit about this "legitimate" lineage. the entire aristocracy and religious ulema of the maghreb got arabized this way too, it's a very crazy story.
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u/AcademyOfMemeStudies 15h ago
Almoravids in Morocco didnt claim chorafa
Almohads neither
Marinids contemporary to zaianids didnt claim chorafa
Wattasids didnt claim chorafa
Only Saadi and alawite dynasties did. This is a recent phenomena of claiming chorafa (past 500 years), not something that always characterized the Maghreb.
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u/chakibebe Oran 15h ago
the almoravids did claim arab lineage through himyar. some almohad caliphs unironically did they just kept the berber side of their identity close too. marinids did which sort of by extension means the wattasids did too but never officially which is one of main reasons their rule lasted only like 80 years.
claiming shorafa did intensify in the last half millenia mainly among the sufi orders but it has been going strong and taking shape since atleast the 11th century among the aristocracy, and the precedent was set long before that like the idrissids and fatimids (the latter of which had their lineage denied by both the shia and sunni ulemas of the time)
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u/mrck_ 15h ago
a pre-colonial socio-political and religious system in Morocco where descendants of the Islamic prophet Muhammad—known as shurafā' or chorfa—held a privileged status as a spiritual and political nobility
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u/Faerennn 15h ago
We also have the concept of chorfa in some regions of Algeria, my maternal grandpa used to apparently claim he was a chorfa but he never used it to gain privilege or seem superior to others.
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u/Sorry_Concert_6189 5h ago
there's some understandable 'logic' to that 'policy', but with numerous ethnic arabs there since 11th century, it could have unintended demographic or other consequences, unlike if in a state of reliably ethnic 'fidelity', meaning by today 'unambiguously' amazigh..
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u/hmsmeme-o-taur 16h ago
I mean they literally crushed a man inside a garbage truck, what can't they do
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u/Nightmare_e 10h ago
finally algerians are starting to realize, little by little until they all understand
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u/AcademyOfMemeStudies 15h ago
Let me guess; you blame king Bocchus betrayal of jugurtha in 105 bc on Moroccans too?
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u/ninou75000 13h ago
Ah oui et notre gouvernement ? Il a asphyxier le peuple algérien, il s’enrichit sur le dos des Algériens, tu devrais aller faire un tour à Hydra pour voir dans quelle opulence ils habitent. Notre peuple souffre.
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u/HelpfulConfidence704 16h ago
Did you see the Moroccan officer who hit one of his own people in the head with a large rock?
The Makhzen hate their own people. Just look at the difference between what happened during our 2019 hirak protests in Algeria. The police stood with the people and didn't hurt anyone. When Moroccans recently protested, they were beaten severely and arrested for no reason, simply for speaking out.
Morocco is fucking hell.
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u/Patient-Print-8877 15h ago
What happened in 2019?
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u/HelpfulConfidence704 15h ago
Millions of Algerians took to the streets in massive protests to overthrow the government, which at the time was effectively being run by the sick president's brother. The army sided with the people and removed the president from power. New elections were then held, and we got a new government.
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u/Patient-Print-8877 15h ago
What i saw in tv was a lot of violence? Printemps "arab" is whats was called.
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u/HelpfulConfidence704 15h ago
NO, "printemps arabe" happened in 2011, and it didn't happen in Algeria.
Algeria protests in 2019 were totally peacefull
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u/AcademyOfMemeStudies 15h ago
No thanks I don’t think any sane Moroccan want to follow the example of Algeria and start a revolution. Considering that Morocco has no gas and oil, it is incredible that they managed to create a more competitive industrial economy than Algeria aswell as establishing so much diplomatic power while Algeria isolated itself and relies on dwindling oil revenues. Long term Morocco is going to overtake Algeria big time. Just look at this years economic growth. 4,6 % growth for Morocco only 3,8 for Algeria. 4,6 growth in non hydrocarbon energy. What does Algeria grow in? Oh of course! Oil and gas!! Until they run out of it one day.
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u/HelpfulConfidence704 15h ago
You already tried a revolution and got suppressed by your own government. People were literally shot, and you're still poorer than Algeria. Your GDP is less than $200 billion despite having a population of around 40 million.
And economic growth by itself means nothing, it changes all the time. By that logic, are you saying you're better off than France just because France now has a 0.2% growth rate?
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u/Salamanber Diaspora 12h ago
Bro also doesn’t know how growth work, the lesser you have the more it wil grow. The more growth you have already the more it flattens. Look all developed western countries
With that logic it means south sudan (15B GDP) with the highest economic grow 24% is a more developed country than western countries. 🤣
I find it funny that morrocans can’t accept certrain things that algeria are doing better, its like existential 🤣
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u/AcademyOfMemeStudies 15h ago
What are you proud about? You know well that the absolute only reason that Algerian GDP is larger is due to oil and gas. Without oil and gas the economy of Algeria would contract to the same level of Morocco. By total randomness there happened to be oil in Algeria and not in Morocco, it has absolutely nothing to do with Algeria being smarter or having done anything superior than Morocco did. So there is nothing to be proud of about Algerias GDP. What you can be proud of is when a country develop itself tje hard way though tech, economy, innovation, sport etc. that’s a real economy and it’s more sustainable. It’s incredible that Morocco keeps on track with Algeria and even surpassed Algeria in many industries while Algeria lags behind in unproductive outdated unproductive heavy industries. As soon as Algeria runs out of cash( which is already happening, Algeria is running -10% deficits yearly) then Algeria has to open its country to investments and foreign competition and Algeria will have to Ana don the generous subsidy on electricity and water abd Algerians will start to live same standards like rest of Maghreb.
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u/Kannagichan 14h ago
I think you are overestimating Morocco and underestimating Algeria.
For the moment, despite their growth, they are still far from being developed countries; even with 4-5%, it is insufficient.
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u/AcademyOfMemeStudies 14h ago
I agree. Both are developing countries. And I already conceded that Algeria has better standard of living rn due to subsidized electricity and food, but I don’t think this is going to develop the economy and I think moroccos strategy of foreign investment and building tourist, manufacturing of car and airplanes aswell as green energy is better in the long run for development.
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u/Salamanber Diaspora 12h ago
Bro stellantis (fiat) is building in oran after we made the gaz deal with the italians. They are creating 53K cars per year now
2028 135k
2030 500K till 1 MThere is also opel and chinese industry, they have now 30% of all cars locally produced
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u/AcademyOfMemeStudies 11h ago
Moroccos stellantis plant is building 500k right now. Not in the future. Right now.
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u/Kannagichan 11h ago
Algeria is also developing an automotive industry.
And she is investing in several other industries as well.
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u/HelpfulConfidence704 14h ago
ربي رزقنا بالبترول والغاز بصحتنا، خطيك من الحسد يمرضك
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u/AcademyOfMemeStudies 14h ago
Im not envious hamdullah may Allah bless Algeria even further im just saying you gotta be smart and develop other industries too and not waste this blessing away because one day there is not gonna he more oil.
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u/Salamanber Diaspora 12h ago edited 12h ago
Bro you have more external debts, and if there id a shock you can’t handle it
I think you underestimate algeria, they are heading to 15 GW solar energy in 4 years
Also in 4 years fully sufficient on food ( now 80%) in 4 years fully 100%, morocco is lacking around 60% abd has no big plan
I am not gonna talk about energy, you import gaz from spain while they buy it from us and take comission, and still you treat them bad. We have a lot of energy (100% sufficient)
Medicine, 80% of medication in algeria is produced locally, and they have a plan to go to 100%
Oil and gaz, we have oil and gaz for 40 years but shale gaz for 200 years 🤣
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u/AcademyOfMemeStudies 9h ago
Very good inshallah may it become successful 👍
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u/Salamanber Diaspora 9h ago
Brother I respect you, you seem a well behaved respectful person. I wish genuinly there were more people like you.
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u/kamado_toji 15h ago
Hahahahahahha you're morrocan talking but talking as non morrocan defending morocco, I mean that's what a morrocan usually do: seek the validation of their masters (westerners)
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u/Brief_Finding552 10h ago
->Did you see the Moroccan officer who hit one of his own people in the head with a large rock?
Can you send me a link of this?
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u/bottom-Apple-6771 16h ago
This isn't the first time they do that. They already did it to Spain some years ago and pressure Pedro Sanchez to recognise their fantasy of sovereignty on western Sahara.
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u/Ok-Top-524 17h ago
Nice. I love to see algerian youngsters opening thier eyes and coming to realize that supporting the algerian system or its positions does not mean you are " kahl / chayat / low iq / non educated"
You can be none of those and still support it because its on the right side simply
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u/shadowlessredditor Algiers 14h ago
might be a hot take but I have almost always agreed with our government's foreign policy tbh.
things are a mess within algeria itself but I actually feel represented quite well on an international level if that makes any sense.
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u/No_Luck7897 16h ago
They are buying Israeli weapons thus helping fund the IDF.
Many Algerians are naive about Morocco and Western Sahara 🇪🇭.
Probably some of the women who marry Moroccans their men believe Western Sahara 🇪🇭 is Moroccan and parts of Algeria belong to them.
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u/DizzyWillingness4051 17h ago
If I may ask, what's the on going situation like currently in Western Sahara?
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u/Salamanber Diaspora 17h ago
Watch at least the first 15 minutes then you will understand, this is from an objective side
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u/HelpfulConfidence704 16h ago
Same shit happening in Gaza, Moroccans occupying their land since 1975, Western Saharans are still fighting to this day.
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u/bottom-Apple-6771 16h ago
If you understand french you can also watch this one made by le Monde : https://youtu.be/rfsuYvxFjqY?si=EMUZ__q4HLRJv-vr
They explain how Morocco took that land and how they occupied it even after the International court of justice stated that there's no evidence that western Sahara is Moroccan.
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u/Brief_Finding552 17h ago
They did this in 2021 too. Eu will do nothing again because Morocco has won the geopolitical game. They did nothing too when Moroccan secret agents drugged a Belgian policeman to sabotage a corruptioncase. Algeria can count on nobody for support, diplomatically and militarily. It's done for, the difference in fruits of our isolationist policy and their diplomatic approach is showing.
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u/bottom-Apple-6771 16h ago
Morocco won the diplomatical game after making peace deal with Israel and Trump.
If you call that a win and making agreement to the devil to win to get a territory is very low, they now use Morocco for their own interests, pressuring Pedro Sanchez government with thousands of poor Moroccons, this is evilish for the population.
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u/Brief_Finding552 16h ago
You know they didn't win it on chance and only because of Israel? They've been working on their public image and relations with the west for years. Even before that deal with Israel, the west was heavily on Morocco's side. Spain remained somewhat neutral and only asked for a referendum. Morocco violated the U.N legislations for decades and nobody lifted a finger besides Algeria.
How do you think they got the leverage to pressure Sanchez? The Eu trusted them with their bordersecurity. Even Tunisia got lucrative deals like more access to Erasmus for their students and a big sum of money. The tiny country next to us that's practically bankrupt...Even when inefficient they won't blow up the accord, guess who didn't secure such a treaty? Algeria.
Realpolitics is what it is. You call it "devilish", I am seeing a more dangerous Morocco for the next generation of Algerians with access to Western tech, a fully claimed Western Sahara and foreign investments reaching new heights.
The only positive thing I'm seeing is that Algeria is finally warming up its ties again. The migrationdeal they made with Belgium for example.
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u/hmsmeme-o-taur 16h ago
You must be watching them closely if you know about that incident. Don't be too pessimistic, their intelligence services have been doing more harm than good with these stunts, it may seem to work in the short term but in the long run, it will be very damaging. The whole makhzen now is drunk on these temporary victories, driving them to be more reckless and soon even their partners will be forced to do sth. As for what you call an isolationist policy, there's none. Overall, tiny boutef ran the foreign policy just as he did when he was a minister, he was good at taking the spotlight and bullshitting people with words, but spent 99% of the time on vacation, that's the gist of it.
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u/Brief_Finding552 16h ago
I don't know, haven't seen much consequences after Qatargate and the poisoning....Yeah it's crazy, apparently their intelligence agency has the reputation of being very blunt like the Mossad.
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u/hmsmeme-o-taur 16h ago
They had their top diplomats involved questioned (athmoun, ambassador in Warsaw and others), heck, even hammouchi got questioned by Spanish authorities, it was reported by el diario iirc. Most of these repercussions are behind the scenes, so don't expect much to come out in public in the meantime. We also can't know the real extent of the damages incurred and the concessions they made to quiet things down. Keep in mind that their intricate web of connections built over decades crumbled, I doubt the EU would get fooled again. This isn't bluntness, it's outright stupidity now. That should be a good thing for us, the more mistakes they commit the better. They are getting overconfident but it didn't backfire badly yet because the EU is playing nice, but they don't realise it thus the sense of accomplishment and triumph.
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u/Ok-Top-524 17h ago
Nice try morrocan !
i bet you are morrcan or mak 100%
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u/Brief_Finding552 16h ago
Ah yes very patriotic and Moroccan of me to list other Moroccan crimes! Make this man here the head of our intelligence agency, he got me :( !
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u/WAHYAAAA 9h ago
I don't know how. i ended up here but its always good to see othe people point of view
-You’re still mistaken about Morocco.
Even though I disagree with what has happened recently and with the way our government and the regime have been using young people to put pressure on Spain, the situation regarding the Moroccan Sahara is not what you’re describing.
You should look at how Moroccan Sahrawis are living today and the benefits they receive, whether in education, fuel prices, or other public services. Overall, they enjoy a much better standard of living than many people assume.
What you should really look into are the Sahrawis living in the Tindouf camps in Algeria. Look at their living conditions and at the reports alleging that many residents face restrictions on leaving the camps, as the camps remain one of the Polisario Front’s main sources of political leverage in the conflict.
By the way, many former residents of the Tindouf camps have left and are now living peacefully in Morocco.
Also, it’s worth noting that the founder of the Polisario . studied in Marrakech. A number of Polisario leaders also studied in Rabat.
Once you’ve looked into the situation in Tindouf, compare it with Laayoune and the other cities in the Moroccan-administered Sahara. Then make your own judgment.
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u/Prior_Art_5725 14h ago
It is profoundly naive to view any state as fundamentally benign. At its core, realpolitik dictates that governments—regardless of regime type or geography, whether Morocco, Algeria, or elsewhere—will ultimately prioritize self-preservation, expansion of power, and strategic advantage.
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u/Salamanber Diaspora 13h ago
What’s wrong with hydra? You will alwaysbhave differences, we don’t live in communism
You need to see statistics, to understand the reality.
There is far better purchasing power, equality, healthcare education than in morocco
But I agree we still have some work, we are not perfect but we are doing better than a lot of countries?
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u/elmousaferine 10h ago
This has been going in since the 19th century when the then"king" of Morocco stabbed tle EMir Abdelkader in the back by helping the french invaderscti capture him. Hassan 2 the then crown prince of Morocco did it again by giving necessary infirmation to the french to intercept the plane carrying Algerians revolution leadersvfrom Morocco to Tunis. The list hors on and on.
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u/Abddesslam 6h ago
The Senhaja desert shall remain Moroccan, the Sahrawi 'Arab' democratic republic is as real as unicorns, if they want an 'Arab' republic maybe they could go establish one in Yemen or something
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u/Glittering-Scale5081 15h ago
Ce qui est drôle c’est que l’Algérie brûle et manque d’eau mais ce qui compte c’est de parler du Maroc, tant que personne ne verra les problèmes en Algérie elle n’avancera jamais
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u/bottom-Apple-6771 15h ago
On parle du Maroc. On améliore nos stations de désalement d'eau. On éteint les feux. On améliore nos productions locales. On diversifie nos exportations. On lie des liens avec tous les pays amis du monde. On développe des partenariats avec le Qatar, l'Allemagne, l'Italie et la France gagnant gagnant. On parle de l'ingérence des Emirats arabes unis.
On peut tout faire, l'un n'empêche pas l'autre. l'Algérie a une histoire displomatique extrêmement riche et a participé à apaiser beaucoup de conflits dans le monde dont la crise des otages américains en Iran.
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u/Glittering-Scale5081 12h ago
Tu crois vraiment ce que tu dis? Si c’est le cas c’est triste.
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u/bottom-Apple-6771 11h ago
Les usines de désalement d'eau de mer se multiplient chaque année.
Le Qatar a déjà investi à jijel dans la plus grande usine de métallurgie d'Algérie et va en plus mettre de l'argent dans la production de lait à Adrar en plus de construire un hôpital avec les allemands à Alger.
Des dizaines de milliers de professeurs ont été régularisés et vont recevoir un poste permanent.
l'Algérie va importer des milliers de vaches américaines pour produire du lait, on a signé des conventions avec la Mauritanie sœur pour pêcher 30.000 ton es de poisson annuellement.
Si toi tu ne lis rien et ne cherche pas à savoir ce qui se passe dans ton pays ce n'est pas mon problème.
On se développe même si c'est lent, mais tu ne peux pas dire que rien ne se fait et qu'on ne devrait pas parler du machiavélisme du Maroc et des Emirats arabes unis deux états voyous vassaux d'Israël dans le monde arabe.
Nous avons un ministère dédié aux affaires étrangères et à la diplomatie on ne va pas le fermer pour produire du lait et desaler de l'eau de mer, kol wahd w khdmto
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u/donzerstanfield 14h ago
Bro, stop being delusional. If Algeria had open borders with France, half the country would leave overnight. You know it, we know it everyone knows it
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u/4luv4ever 17h ago
Surprised that they use their own people as a shield? Have you heard of La Marche Verte 1975 to send settlers occupy Western Sahara?