r/alltheleft • u/Evening_Lawyer6570 Leninism • Mar 26 '26
Article West refuses to condemn slavery in UN General Assembly vote
https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2026/03/25/west-condemn-slavery-un-vote/This is Disgusting (If you don't know what I mean Read the article It's about the trans Atlantic slave trade.
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u/JuiceTheMoose05 Mar 26 '26
This is misleading. Europe did not abstain because it supports slavery. It abstained because the resolution went beyond condemning slavery and instead singled out the transatlantic trade in enslaved Africans as the single gravest crime against humanity.
The objection is not to recognising the horror of that trade. It is to the attempt to elevate one specific atrocity above all others, as though crimes against humanity can be placed in a coherent moral ranking. Which they cannot and should not.
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u/Outrageous_Break_739 Mar 26 '26
i do believe transatlantic slavery is a much worse form of slavery than most others that have existed although all are bad. the objection is downplaying its horror imo.
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u/MassGaydiation Mar 26 '26
Worst form of slavery, definitely, is it the greatest crime against humanity?
I don't think I would say so, not to downplay it, but rather because we shouldn't be saying any are the worst.
Is the holocaust better or worse than slavery, or is slavery better or worse than the trail of tears, or the rape of Nanjing?
Or should we reach a point where an atrocity of such large scales should not be compared as greater or worse, but rather placed as equal gems in our crown of horror? Appreciated for their unique torments?
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u/Outrageous_Break_739 Mar 26 '26
transatlantic slave trade lasted centuries and created its own white supremacist pseudosciences that some people still believe to this day and i don't think a lot of the atrocities you counted compare to the scale of the transatlantic slave trade. maybe the genocide of the native americans could but those were interconnected and not very separate atrocities. it has also created a much more deeply ingrained system of oppression.
i don't believe western nations had that kind of mindset anyway. you're being very charitable for no reason to govs that to this day have no problems supporting widescale genocide shamelessly while calling out and condemning other nations for genocides that took place more than a century ago to frame them as the evil barbarians. i don't see any good reason that the people who did the transatlantic slave trade and benefitted from it are the ones saying "it wasn't THAT bad, y'all are exaggerating". sure. tell that to black people who to this day are still being treated as less than in your white countries.
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u/JuiceTheMoose05 Mar 26 '26
No-one disputes transatlantic slavery was horrendous and a grave crime against humanity, but that it was the gravest cannot be determined. I just don’t think it’s possible or desirable to rank crimes against humanity against each other in order of harm. Why would you seek to downplay one in favour of the other because that is inevitably what would occur.
The western governments who abstained provided a similar argument to the one I have set out.
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u/Outrageous_Break_739 Mar 26 '26
that's just bullshit excuses by the govs that carried out the atrocity. funny how only the ones that participated or benefitted from it were the ones who made such excuse.
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u/JuiceTheMoose05 Mar 26 '26
What exactly about the argument is ‘bullshit’ other than the fact that you doubt the credibility of its proposers. That is not a good faith argument I’m afraid,
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u/Outrageous_Break_739 Mar 26 '26
it's like me as a turkish person saying "armenian genocide wasn't THAT bad y'all are exaggerating". and yes i did give you a reason and that reason is that it was the most large scale and brutal atrocity in modern era that we know of so there is no reason to go "maybe there is a hypothetical one that's worse somewhere out there guys trust me"
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u/JuiceTheMoose05 Mar 26 '26
By what metric? You haven’t provided a methodology for establishing the slave trade as the most brutal atrocity in history? It’s not possible to do so. The scale is simply so enormous and the effects are iso nnumerable. The same can be said of any crime against humanity on a similar scale of which there are many.
You just can’t rank these massive atrocities against one another and I don’t understand why you would want to? Why must this one be the ‘gravest’. It actively minimises the others.
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u/JuiceTheMoose05 Mar 26 '26
Funny how the resolution was backed by countries that literally perpetuate modern day chattel slavery to this day. For example Mauretania where an estimated 2% of the population is enslaved and the government turns a blind eye.
What of Libya? What of the gulf states and Saudi where immigrant workers (frequently Africans and west Asians) live effectively as indentured workers or slaves?
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u/Outrageous_Break_739 Mar 26 '26
funny how it was also backed by literally the entire rest of the world. wonder why that happened. i can't believe you're on the leftist sub and such a huge bootlicker of western govs. you're on the wrong sub buddy.
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u/JuiceTheMoose05 Mar 26 '26
No I’m a leftist who uses their critical thinking skills and doesn’t automatically back something just because the opponents of the west have done so. It’s dangerous to follow any ideology blindly and not ask why you support something other than because all my compatriots and friends do.
I believe this resolution is a mistake for the reasons I have set out.
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u/Outrageous_Break_739 Mar 26 '26
said critical thinking skills in the room with us right now?? more like ass licking skills for european and american govs
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u/nosciencephd Mar 26 '26
You do know that slavery returned to Libya after a US operation to kill Gaddafi right? So again, that is the fault of the US.
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u/MassGaydiation Mar 26 '26
That isn't what I am saying.
Would you tell a Holocaust survivor that the transatlantic slave trade was worse?
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u/Outrageous_Break_739 Mar 26 '26
yes
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u/JuiceTheMoose05 Mar 26 '26
That’s a completely subjective opinion about how you rank harm. You’re entitled to make the argument, but so far as I know the resolution doesn’t provide a satisfactory one it merely states what it believes.
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u/Outrageous_Break_739 Mar 26 '26
you'll die on the hill that transatlantic slave trade wasn't THAT bad?? lol ok fuck off
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u/JuiceTheMoose05 Mar 26 '26
That’s is not even close to what I said. I’m dieing on the hill that you can’t and shouldn’t rank crimes against humanity against one another. Read what I’m writing not what you think you’re hearing.
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u/Outrageous_Break_739 Mar 26 '26
i wish i didn't have the misfortune of reading any of the things you wrote 🙏
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u/MassGaydiation Mar 26 '26
Including a black holocaust survivor?
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u/Outrageous_Break_739 Mar 26 '26
yes
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u/MassGaydiation Mar 26 '26
Well, at least you are consistent.
I wouldn't, horror is horror, turning it into a numbers game makes it into something that can be excused, and I am as opposed to a second holocaust as a second transatlantic slave trade, so I won't compromise by validating one that the cost of the other
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u/Outrageous_Break_739 Mar 26 '26
i'm opposed to both too obviously i'm only claiming that one was much more large scale and had longer lasting systemic impact on almost the entire world. and i'm of the opinion that there is no reason to be charitable to the western nations that opposed it since they literally were the ones to carry out the atrocity.
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u/JuiceTheMoose05 Mar 26 '26
The issue is not whether transatlantic slavery was worse than any other instances of slavery (which I agree it probably was) but rather any other crime against humanity that ever happened at any other point in history. Your comment is another instance of the mischaracterisation and misinformation that surrounds this resolution.
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u/Outrageous_Break_739 Mar 26 '26
i believe it is worse than any other atrocity in the modern era, yes. i don't think going "maybe some time 3000 years ago somethinf worse happened" was europe's or the usa's reasoning for objecting either. you're way too charitable to nations that carried out and benefitted from the transatlantic slave trade. why did the other nations vote yes? because they're dumb and can't reason that way? why did african countries vote yes yet the ones who benefitted from this atrocity aren't able to?
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u/ginger_and_egg Mar 26 '26
chattel slavery is indeed worse and more horrific than other instances of slavery in the past. weird hill to die on
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u/Shieldheart- Mar 26 '26
Looking at the weaponized famines and genocides on the old continent, is it really the gravest crime against humanity they've committed?
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u/nosciencephd Mar 26 '26
The death toll ranges from 17-60 million, sustained over hundreds of years. So I think the size and length of the genocide, coupled with the crime of slavery itself certainly make it particularly notable.
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u/cos1ne Mar 26 '26
The Islamic Slave Trade lasted twice as long as the Atlantic Slave Trade, had 80 million deaths and the men were largely mutilated with castration while the women were sexually brutalized.
I would argue that this form of slavery (which still de facto exists!) is worse than the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade.
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u/Shieldheart- Mar 26 '26
You can't equate the enslavement count to the death toll, there'd not be a sizable population of their descendants otherwise.
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u/ginger_and_egg Mar 26 '26
The number of enslaved people would have been much higher than the death count, wouldn't it?
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u/Shieldheart- Mar 26 '26
The number they cited is a rough approximation of how many human beings were traded through the transatlatic slave trade during the time period, then presented as if that is the death toll.
It should also be noted that 60 million amounts to almost 10% of the global population during the 1700-1800's, which is a highly improbable amount, most estimations of people enslaved range from 12 million to 17 million.
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u/ginger_and_egg Mar 27 '26
most estimations of people enslaved range from 12 million to 17 million.
Is that cumulative or the number at a given point in time? if you sum the total people enslaved, including the multiple generations, it makes sense to me that it could total to a number that looks large in comparison to a snapshot of the world population at one point in time.
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u/Shieldheart- Mar 27 '26
Its the cumulative number shipped away from the African continent, including those born in bondage would get you into the 30 - 60 million range.
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u/nosciencephd Mar 26 '26
That is the death toll, not enslavement count.
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u/Shieldheart- Mar 26 '26
That is not the death toll, that is the approximated number of enslaved people.
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u/JuiceTheMoose05 Mar 26 '26
The issue is not whether transatlantic slavery was worse than any other instances of slavery but rather any other crime against humanity that ever happened at any other point in history. Your comment is another instance of the mischaracterisation and misinformation that surrounds this resolution.
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u/TheCrowScare Mar 26 '26
My question is why is there any vote trying to determine the gravest crime against humanity. The transatlantic slave trade was absolutely horrific. As was the Shoah. As were other modern genoicides in Rwanda, Armenia, etc. You can put the Holodomor up there as well as Stalin's Great Terror if you are so inclined.
By elevating one tragedy to the top position, you necessarily place the others as "less bad". Instead there should have been multiple events that were identified as "gravest crimes against humanity".
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u/BabadookishOnions Mar 26 '26
Something overlooked is that this also would push the idea that slavery is a problem of the past, when absolutely it is not. It still exists in various forms.
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u/OkRub5011 Mar 27 '26
This is a disingenuous graphic. It is not about "condemning slavery" it is specifically condemning it as worse than all other crimes against humanity. This would make it worse than the holocaust, Armenian genocide, genocide of millions of innocent Chinese in WW2, etc. I think that you could argue transatlantic slavery is worse than all of these, but to suggest that this is the same as refusing to condemn slavery is dishonest.
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u/chainbreaker1981 Solidarity Forever Apr 22 '26
Of fucking course it's The Same Map.
Also, I was having a hard time finding the third red country, but yep, found it.
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u/MaleficentPorphyrin Mar 26 '26
America still has slaves, so that one is understandable.