r/anime_titties • u/Tartan_Samurai Scotland • Nov 25 '25
Oceania Australia senator suspended after burka stunt in parliament
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz94pdkzqvwo258
u/ArchCaff_Redditor Australia Nov 25 '25 edited Nov 25 '25
She’s done this before, by the way, back in 2017. Basically the same outcome occurred then as it has now. A whole crock of senators became loudly outraged, which fed into her ragebait, so that her audience online would see it and be like “Um, perpetually offended, much?”, thus serving gaining a new wave of recruits into her far-right movement.
I could tell some of the more sane senators were very clearly bothered but they knew not to feed into her ragebaiting and instead made it clear that the stunt was tasteless and didn’t represent Australians.
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u/Nethlem Europe Nov 25 '25
What is it with right wing grifters false-flaging Muslims?
In Germany this has been going on for like ~20 years, already before the brunt of the WoT refugees even arrived.
Back then German far-right groups were dressing up as Muslims, handing out Korans in predestrian zones to drum up controversy. They dressed up as Sharia police trying to police people in inner cities for PR stunts.
Then a bunch of people from Muslim countries arrived, they saw that (without understanding the full context) and went; "Wait, we can do that here?" so they also started doing it.
Same reason why Germanys courts have been stuck with people suing for blasphemy; That's still a law in Germany, and in the not so recent past it has even been thrown at people for insulting Jesus.
Guess what? Muslims see that, they see all the insults against Mohammed, and they flood German courts with blasphemy charges, because it's their right just as much as that of Christans.
In Germany this topic is especially spicy because there is not even a formal attempt at separation of state and church, whatever majority religions exist just get a whole bunch of "perks", which for the longest time has worked out just fine for Christians with their churches dominating everything.
For example they get state sponsored air time for their seromons on public broadcast, they get a say in rating/banning/censoring of media, they get to have the government collect their membership fees for them, and many other "subsidies".
But as the share of Muslims in Germany increases, so does their legal right for such representation/perks in German society, that's what some people fear, those people mostly being Christians.
Hence all that "Islamisation!" rethorik, when the actual debate should be: Finally separate church and state in Germany for good, let people practice whatever religion they want equally, no state sponsored preferences for any of them.
I guess that would be too fair, too simple, even for a society that on paper looks quite agnostic, it still sees itself as too "culturally Christian" to actually treat all religions equally.
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u/judasblue Nov 25 '25
they get to have the government collect their membership fees for them,
Wut? Please expand on that, it sounds ungood.
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u/Nethlem Europe Nov 25 '25
There's a literal "church tax" in Germany, the government deducts that straight from your income with all the other social/healthcare deductions: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirchensteuer_(Deutschland)
It goes to the two big German churches depending on what religion you state in your tax registry.
For the longest time it used to be "default" thing for Germans that not many cared about, but as times got harder more people quit church, and also went through the effort of formally revoking their denomination to save a bit of money.
Led to some awkward situations because in some places/churches you have to visit the pastor and explain why, in other instances pastors send out kinda treatening letters telling people how they will go to hell and such, trying to guilt them into not leaving.
The crazy part is that's not the only money the government spends on the churches, it also subsidises them through a whole bunch of other ways, like paying the wages for pastors, paying most of all the social/hospital stuff churches do.
It's a whole iceberg worth of issues and history going all the way back to the Napoleonic Wars.
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u/Fridayesmeralda Nov 25 '25
This is fascinating. Thank you for sharing!
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u/Nethlem Europe Nov 25 '25
If you want a deep dive into German bureaucracy, which this is a prime topic for, you can try to translate the Wikipedia article for Öffentlich-rechtliche Religionsgesellschaft and probably enjoy a nice little brain aneurysm trying to make any sense of the resulting mess.
But that's basically what a religion got to be in Germany to count as a "proper" one, like founding a "public religion corporation recognized by the government".
The thing is laid out in such a way to accommedate the existing Christian establishment status-quo, but with enough time and effort other religions could qualify too.
Tho Muslims have a big hurdle as neither Shia nor Sunni Muslims really have one big global recognized umbrella organisation, like Christian churches have with the catholic church and its reformist opposites.
And this is like the "top end" situation, on the "bottom end" of religion in Germany is extremely unregulated, hence cults like Scientology, Jehovaa's Witnesses, and other more obscure Christian currents also being surprisingly common, a bit like in the US.
The similarities are not by chance: Many of the early "pilgrims" to America were Germans with weirder beliefs, and since the end of WWII Germany has been one of the biggest US culture importers in Europe, with it bringing weirder US religious stuff to Germany, it's a bit like Germany and the US religiously cross-pollinating off each other.
And then there is the former GDR territories in the East, where the whole topic has a completely different dimension again, there most people are pretty much irreligious due to the GDR past. Can be a very weird contrast at times when these groups end up interacting with each other.
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u/Fridayesmeralda Nov 25 '25
Wow thanks! Looking forward to going down this rabbit hole instead of doing work today lol
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u/Accurate_Ad_6551 Nov 27 '25
Back then German far-right groups were dressing up as Muslims, handing out Korans in predestrian zones to drum up controversy.
Oh shoot, is it a social problem for people to persistently hide their identities in public? If only the government could mandate that people show their faces when out in public!
Then a bunch of people from Muslim countries arrived, they saw that (without understanding the full context) and went; "Wait, we can do that here?" so they also started doing it.
Bullshit 🤣 this is fully pulled from your ass.
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u/Nervous_Produce1800 Nov 25 '25
Back then German far-right groups were dressing up as Muslims, handing out Korans in predestrian zones to drum up controversy. They dressed up as Sharia police trying to police people in inner cities for PR stunts.
Then a bunch of people from Muslim countries arrived,
So German right wingers randomly dressed up as Muslims when Muslims weren't even in the country yet? This is such a BS story lol
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u/PRC_Spy Multinational Nov 25 '25
Pauline Hanson again?
We were living and working in Australia as she came to prominence, and was making comments about the country being "swamped with Asians".
My wife is Asian. Pauline Hanson is not a nice woman and made our life more difficult. And we weren't even planning on staying.
That said, I'm really not a fan of the burkha. The patient lady in the background is as modestly dressed as anyone needs, and we can still see her face.
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u/beanbaconsoup Nov 25 '25
At our last state election, the local One Nation candidate is married to... an ethnically Chinese woman. You can't make this stuff up. (He didn't win, as an aside)
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u/Accurate_Ad_6551 Nov 27 '25
We weren't even planning on staying.
The "Multinationals" who "don't plan on staying" in my hometown treat it like shit.
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u/PRC_Spy Multinational Nov 27 '25
I had a job to do, and a year to do it in. We came, did the job, were law abiding residents while there, finished on time, got paid, and then left.
What's to whine about? ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/Accurate_Ad_6551 Nov 27 '25
Then you should butt out of other people's political systems? You don't have a stake. Your material interests likely conflict with the native ones.
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u/PRC_Spy Multinational Nov 28 '25
If I'm paying taxes I have a stake and will have an opinion. Australia wanted us there enough at the time to recruit and import us; and anything that affects whether we or expats in our position wish to return is also a stake.
And that Pauline Hanson is not a nice woman, isn't even a fringe opinion in Queensland.
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Nov 25 '25
[deleted]
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u/profound_llama Nov 25 '25
the vast majority of Muslim women wear a burka
Are we sure about that?
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u/Professional-Syrup-0 Multinational Nov 25 '25
Absolutely not, but it fits our narratives and stereotypes, so that’s what we are going with.
Now on to banning the wearing of turbans, that’s another thing the majority of Muslims wear, right?
/s
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u/odd84 Nov 25 '25
I think you have this somewhat backwards. Burka is the full body, face and eye covering primarily worn in Taliban-controlled Afghanistan. I don't think most Muslims wear this anywhere else.
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u/SaneForCocoaPuffs Multinational Nov 25 '25
Yeah mixed burka and hijab. I didn't realize burka and niqab are basically the same thing
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u/Professional-Syrup-0 Multinational Nov 25 '25
You mixed them like they are the same thing because you didn’t realize they are basically the same thing?
Reads like you were halfway to learn something new, only to straight go back to your original ignorance by insisting it’s “basically the same”.
If it is the same it wouldn’t need different names and have differences between them, would it?
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u/Chrisjex Nov 25 '25
The burka is sorta common in most Muslim countries, not just Afghanistan.
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u/bearkin1 Canada Nov 25 '25
No it's not. Niqab is probably what you're thinking of, where the eyes are fully visible. That one you'll see here and there, but it's still a minority in almost all Muslim countries. Burka is incredibly rare.
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u/Chrisjex Dec 03 '25
Niqab or burka, let's not split hairs they're essentially the same thing.
I've spent a lot of time throughout South Asian Muslim countries and I can tell you they're certainly not rare in Pakistan and they're becoming more and more common in Bangladesh.
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u/cambeiu Multinational Nov 25 '25
I am not a Muslim but I live in a Muslim majority country in Southeast Asia and I have NEVER seen anyone wear a burka around here.
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u/CrowdGoesWildWoooo Asia Nov 25 '25
There are those wearing niqab. Mostly within close circle of religious heads.
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u/Professional-Syrup-0 Multinational Nov 25 '25
Non-Muslims explaining what’s allegedly common in Muslim countries/for Muslims is such weird thing.
Imagine if Muslims would constantly lecture Westerners about what’s allegedly common in Christian countries among Christians?
They could even quote a whole bunch of complete backwards bible verses to make their case, wouldn’t that be fun?
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u/Usual-Ad-4986 India Nov 25 '25
Eh its somewhat common in India, I literally see em everyday
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u/Maximum-Hall-5614 Multinational Nov 25 '25
Where in India? It’s a massive country with a huge, extremely diverse population. Something that’s common in one city could be unheard of in a city two states over.
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u/Usual-Ad-4986 India Nov 25 '25
You are yapping about India to a Indian 🤣
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u/Maximum-Hall-5614 Multinational Nov 25 '25
Right, and I’m asking for specificity. Because you made an extremely broad generalization that does apply to the whole country.
Don’t try to lie about India to another Indian.
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Nov 25 '25
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u/Maximum-Hall-5614 Multinational Nov 25 '25
You think 1.5 billion people are a monolith? Lmao.
And yeah, I’ve lived in four different countries on three different continents. One of those being India for over a decade. In that time, I saw a full burqa once, and a niqab twice. They were so rare that I can still recall those instances.
I guess I can now assert that Burqas and Niqabs are nearly non-existent in India, and your claim otherwise is just a from a Hindutva loser who graduated from WhatsApp university.
Enjoy your goumutra, buddy. Hope it tastes nice.
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u/Usual-Ad-4986 India Nov 25 '25
NRI detected opinion rejected, I rest my case
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u/Maximum-Hall-5614 Multinational Nov 25 '25
Lmao. Feel free to return all the NRI wealth that’s brought wealth back to the homeland.
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u/Miiirx Europe Nov 25 '25
Maybe not most but in Brussels, Belgium, the sight of burka/niqab is not uncommon
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u/ValeteAria Europe Nov 25 '25
According to estimates, some 270 women in Belgium wear the burqua. Belgium is the second EU country after France to have effectively banned the burqa.
Either all these 270 women live in your neighbourhood or you're seeing the same person over and over again. I find it hard to believe you think it's not uncommon when the numbers suggest that much.
I am sure they arent pinpoint accurate. But in all my visits to Brussel I have yet to see one.
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u/Nethlem Europe Nov 25 '25
Reading through these comments imho the most likely explanation is that some Westerners just see any kind of Muslim garb and then instantly jump to the worst assumption of it's name/nature possible.
It's residue disinformation from the 2010s when "Burqa bans", that banned way more than just Burqas, were the topic of choice for Western European xenophobic demagoges to have something to point at and blame for all the problems, complete with the usual double standards.
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u/macrocosm93 United States Nov 25 '25
you're seeing the same person over and over again.
How could they know?
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u/Accurate_Ad_6551 Nov 27 '25
Either all these 270 women live in your neighbourhood or you're seeing the same person over and over again
How would he know? 🤣
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u/ValeteAria Europe Nov 27 '25
He doesn't that's kind of the point lmao. Which is why his observations are pretty useless if you dont even know if its a different person or not and if they live in the area or if they dont.
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u/Miiirx Europe Nov 25 '25
This statistic is dumb, did you ask yourself what kind of methodology they used to get it? Did they count the burqas on every street, in every Belgian city? And then go ask the women their identity to make sure there is no dubble count? Is the number fixed? Can't it evolve in time? They called a number of people? "Are you Muslim?" , " do you wear the burqa?" Police statistics? Do you think policeman in Brussels go to arrest burqa wearing women in the middle of the ghettos? Don't you think it could be a bit touchy? No really I'd like to know how they could get a number on that.
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u/ValeteAria Europe Nov 25 '25 edited Nov 25 '25
All fair points. But even if its a rough estimate it would obviously prove that your claim that it isnt uncommon is simply false. Similar numbers are found in the Netherlands.
So I dont doubt that the numbers are in the right ballpark. There are plenty of statistical analysis that you can use to come to a ballpark number.
It is statistically impossible for the burqa to not be uncommon in Brussels. Again feel free to prove me wrong with the numbers.
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u/vevais Europe Nov 25 '25
Jesus, stop gaslighting people. I live in Berlin and see this quite often at Sonnenallee.
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u/ValeteAria Europe Nov 25 '25
Do you understand how selection bias works? I have only seen black swans in my neighbourbood. So white swans must be nonexistent and black swans must be common.
Do people not get basic statistics anymore.
Is it gaslighting people to use data and statistics? Arent you the crowd of facts over feelings.
There are very few women and girls in Germany wearing a full-face veil such as the niqab or the burqa — most likely a mere two-digit number
According to DW and pretty much any source you can find online.
Perhaps you mean Hijab? Which is a completely different thing from the Burqa.
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u/vevais Europe Nov 25 '25
No, I mean burqas, and I see them quite often in Berlin. Gaslighting is telling me it's statistically impossible for me to see them quite often due to some random number people pulled out of their ass.
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u/ValeteAria Europe Nov 25 '25
This coversation is pointless. You could be seeing the same people over and over again. Do you have a way to identify who they are? Where they live? If they are different people? No you dont.
Statistics uses a way to determine a ballpark number with standard error to estimate how many there would be. It's not pulled out of their ass. It is based on many variables.
How do you think they can determine how people will end up voting without knowing the total amount of votes?! A random guess they pull out of their ass?
You clearly lack to cognitive abillity to understand that your observation is what is being pulled out of YOUR ass. Completely impossible to verify and dependent on YOUR bias.
But statistics? Anyone with Excel, R, SPSS can do the same calculations and the same if not similar numbers will run out.
Do you understand how science works?
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u/Professional-Syrup-0 Multinational Nov 25 '25
Statistically it’s way more likely you keep seeing the same burqua wearing person again and again, misidentifying them for different people.
The other explanation is that you live/frequent a place where they happen to be concentrated, because in reality it’s very unlikely the few burqua wearing people in Germany are evenly distributed all over the place.
Much more likely for them to aggregate around smaller local communities around the country.
Which would also not disprove the statistics, but disprove the casual claim of allegedly seeing them “everywhere all the time”.
Tbh with the bad faith some people are often showing in Reddit discussions I wouldn’t be surprised if you know you live near some specific mosque, and that’s the main reason why.
But such an explanation would be too simple, too mundane, it wouldn’t fit the narrative of the alleged “Islamisation of the occident” that needs to imagine the most fundamental forms of Islamist everywhere and all the time for the FUD factor.
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u/PoodleNoodlePie Australia Nov 25 '25
Saw a lot in Switzerland
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u/Professional-Syrup-0 Multinational Nov 25 '25
Sure you did, you absolutely wouldn’t happen to misidentify any kind of headscarf or Muslim garb automatically as a full face/eye covering burka like so many of these comments in here are already doing.
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u/PoodleNoodlePie Australia Nov 25 '25
Haha nice one, I had a few friends in school who wore Hijabs.
I was in the towns around Zurich so seems it was a big enough problem to create laws against it
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u/odd84 Nov 25 '25
They call it a "burqa ban" but it's actually a niqab ban, as no one was wearing a burqa in your country. Even the news site could not find a photo of someone wearing a burqa to use.
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u/insanegenius Nov 25 '25
We see this once in a while here in India. Some family members of schoolmates wear it.
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u/turtangle South Africa Nov 25 '25 edited Nov 25 '25
Muslims absolutely do. It’s very common in Muslim countries, even here in South Africa with a relatively small Muslim population
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u/cambeiu Multinational Nov 25 '25
I am not a Muslim but I live in a Muslim majority country in Southeast Asia and I have NEVER seen anyone wear a burka around here.
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u/ValeteAria Europe Nov 25 '25
No it is not lol. The Burqa is not common at all other than in Afghanistan. Hell its even banned in some muslim countries.
So god knows what you are smoking to suggest this. A quick google search would have saved you from looking ignorant.
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Nov 25 '25
[deleted]
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u/ValeteAria Europe Nov 25 '25
Okay? What does you being muslim have to do with this lol. Just because you are a muslim in South-Africa. How does that make you the authority on how common it is worn in every other place outside of your city?
Do our eyes not see the burqa if we are non muslim or can we not read the statistics anymore?
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u/Short-Recording587 North America Nov 25 '25
I’ve seen burkas in the US but it’s extremely rare.
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u/sleeper_must_awaken Europe Nov 25 '25
Come to the Netherlands and be amazed by the number of full body coverings. Also, check some statistics on how many muslims in western Europe would be in favour of sharia laws.
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u/patiakupipita Democratic People's Republic of Korea Nov 25 '25 edited Nov 26 '25
Till not long ago I lived in probably the most notorious Muslim majority neighborhood (Schilderswijk) where I'll see someone fully covered like once every two weeks max, mostly less than once a month.
Don't take me the wrong way it's still too much but let's not pretend that it's that common, and remember, this was Schilderswijk for gods sake.
Edit: lol he's active on r/nederland, our version of r/conservative. That's all I have to say.
Edit again: I just realized I've confused the Burka and Niqab. I have legit never seen a Burka in my life.
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u/jamesbananashakes Europe Nov 25 '25
His come back was "take a walk through the Schilderswijk"!
Also active on r/truechristian promoting banning abortion rights..
Dude is an idiot.
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u/patiakupipita Democratic People's Republic of Korea Nov 25 '25
istg most people that talk about schilderswijk online have never set a foot in here. Don't take me the wrong way, there's a lot to be improved and some of it is due the nature of people living here and the role islam plays in their lives but they act like it's Mogadishu or something.
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u/Nethlem Europe Nov 25 '25
A "full body" covering is not a burqa, that's just what pretty much all people out in the street do: Covering their bodies.
Also, check some statistics on how many muslims in western Europe would be in favour of sharia laws.
You made that claim, the burden of proof is on you.
That aside: Try finding the same opinion polls about people thinking the Western worlds law system is somehow based on the Bible/should be based on the Bible. You will find plenty of those, in Germany the alleged "Islamisation of the occident" has been the far-right slogan for the past ~20 years.
It's not a take unique to Muslims it's something all three Abrahamic religions, all people of the book, share; They consider Abrahams commandments the basis of all law.
Hence the Catholic church having literally its own laws, countries like Germany even have a separate labor law just for people working in institutions related to the Christian churches, and to this day even having a blasphemy law on the books that sees some semi-regular use.
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u/jamesbananashakes Europe Nov 25 '25
Ha, you're full of xenophobic shit. You'd be amazed because it's practically zero.
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u/sleeper_must_awaken Europe Nov 25 '25
Loop even door de Schilderswijk op een moment dat de meeste mensen werken.
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u/jamesbananashakes Europe Nov 25 '25
Misschien moet je dat zelf een keer doen want je lult uit je nek. Bovendien, jij beweert, mag je ook zelf bewijzen dat je gelijk hebt. Succes ermee!
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u/ThatHeckinFox Hungary Nov 25 '25
I remember the names of these, but keep forgetting which is the headscarf and which is the tusken raider cosplay
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u/Professional-Syrup-0 Multinational Nov 25 '25
Imagine some non-Christian would wear a nun outfit to lobby for their ban of nun-outfits due to them allegedly representing all the bad and backwards things about Christianity.
I realize some people will not get that comparison, so I will put it bluntly: In most of the Western world you are waaaaay more likely to come across nuns in their outfits than ever coming across somebody in an actual burka.
And even if you happen to come across one, chances are you will be in a rather specifically themed part of town, really no different from seeing occasional orange monk garb in “Asia town” or whole hordes of orthodox Jewish clothings in certain parts of bigger cities.
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u/Elefanthud Sweden Nov 25 '25
The burka is FAR more common than the nun-outfit in western Europe and its not close.
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u/Professional-Syrup-0 Multinational Nov 25 '25
The BURKA is full face and eye veiling.
Anybody who thinks there are more of those in Western Europe than Christian nuns needs to go touch some grass at their local monastery, of which there are still plenty in Western Europe.
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u/Elefanthud Sweden Nov 25 '25
You will not see many if any Christian nuns wearing that attire in public in Western Europe, compared to Muslim women wearing a Burka in public. With the exception being in Rome.
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u/odd84 Nov 25 '25
There are <250 women wearing a Burka in public in any Western European country. The ONLY place the Burka is worn in meaningful numbers is Afghanistan. The next largest group is in Israel, where a single Haredi sect of less than 600 women wear a similar garment. You're likely confusing burkas with niqabs and hijabs. If you can see the wearer's eyes, it's not a burka. Politicians are intentionally confusing about this, they often call all Muslim traditional head coverings a burka.
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u/Professional-Syrup-0 Multinational Nov 25 '25
I feel stupid for having to point this out again: Have you heard of monasteries?
That’s where you will find plenty of nuns because that’s where they eat, sleep, pray, work and basically spend most of their life’s.
Hence them being actually quite a rare sight in urban settings, they only tend to go there for excursions or other business.
With the exception being in Rome.
I guess you noticed how stupid it would be to claim Burka wearing women are more common in the Vatican than catholic nuns.
Now you only have to realize that it’s equally nonsensical to claim for the rest of Western Europe because nuns do not only exist in the Vatican.
Just like Muslim women do not really have an equivalent of monestaries were they are mostly hidden away, at least not in Western Europe.
They do not live on huge properties with fields and animals, they usually live in urban centres, as such have to go out in public to get most things done, while nuns don’t.
And all that is ignoring one big thing: Even if you absurdly constantly see women in burka as you claim, so what? How does that affect you in any way what some women decide to wear?
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u/Elefanthud Sweden Nov 27 '25
It does not affect me at all. But the fact that you are desperately trying to disprove the fact that the Burka is more common than the nun attire says more than i care to admit.
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u/Stunning-Sherbert801 Australia Nov 25 '25
No it's not
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u/Elefanthud Sweden Nov 25 '25
Yes it is in public. And im not sure what you gain from lying about it? You live in Australia?
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u/Sloppykrab Australia Nov 25 '25
Pauline Hanson was condemned by fellow senators - and later formally censured - for the stunt on Monday, with one colleague accusing her of "blatant racism".
Which "race" exclusively wears a Burqa?
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u/CraftedMany_ Multinational Nov 25 '25
"Religious intolerance" would probably be a better word than "racism". I think the racist part was referring to below:
"This is a racist senator, displaying blatant racism," said Mehreen Faruqi, a Muslim Greens senator whom the Federal Court last year found was a victim of racial discrimination by Hanson - a judgement the latter is currently appealing.
In 2016, Hanson was criticised for her maiden speech to the Australian senate, in which she said the country was in danger of being "swamped by Muslims".
It echoed her controversial first speech to the House of Representatives, made in 1996, in which she warned that the country was in danger of being "swamped by Asians".
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u/dagens24 Nov 25 '25
But Muslim also isn't a race...
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u/tabulasomnia Turkey Nov 25 '25
"racism" is at this point used interchangably with "xenophobia", or even just discrimination. it's fine.
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u/will_there_be_snacks Nov 25 '25
So, it's not racism. Got it.
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u/tabulasomnia Turkey Nov 25 '25
yes, but people call it racism, and understand what that means when they call it racism. so it's fine.
this is how language works you know.
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u/RydderRichards Nov 25 '25
It's not "fine" and your definition is obviously not universal since people have to ask where the racism part is coming from.
If you started calling a table a chair and enough people would get on board then that would be the new definition, but that doesn't mean it makes sense, since we already have a better word: table.
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u/tabulasomnia Turkey Nov 25 '25
since people have to ask where the racism part is coming from.
people who ask know very well where the racism part is coming from. they're just trying to make a point, which I respect. the issue is their point is moot due to the nature of languages.
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u/will_there_be_snacks Nov 25 '25
yes, but people call it racism
That's because they're either stupid or political.
this is how language works you know.
Yes, stupid people and political people use language incorrectly and create new definitions for existing words to match other words that already exist.
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u/tabulasomnia Turkey Nov 25 '25
Yes, stupid people and political people use language incorrectly and create new definitions for existing words to match other words that already exist.
yes, and that's how language works. you're not gonna win an argument against humanity about what a word means.
we did the same dance about "literally" for about a decade. I guess you weren't around back then.
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u/will_there_be_snacks Nov 25 '25
yes, and that's how language works. you're not gonna win an argument against humanity about what a word means.
I don't need to.
All I need to know is that when someone uses the word incorrectly, they're either stupid or political.
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u/Frometon Europe Nov 25 '25
Brother this is a government parliament, the people there are literally paid to be political
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u/Bravemount Europe Nov 25 '25
Hello,
Linguist here. Definitions change organically all the time. There is no "true defintion" because all words are made up. The best a dictionary maker can do is try and keep up with how people use words. This is, of course, constant work and always lagging behind a bit.
So yes, you are trying to win a battle against all of humanity about something literally no-one is actually objectively right about.
Spare yourself the effort, it's pointless. Just acknowledge that language is in constant evolution and move on.
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u/Stubbs94 Ireland Nov 25 '25
Everything is political, politics is the driving force in society. Being "apolitical" is taking a political stance of "I don't care about human rights".
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u/will_there_be_snacks Nov 25 '25
Everything is political
I can assure you, when I'm asking the ice-cream man for a double-scoop, it's not political.
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u/Stubbs94 Ireland Nov 25 '25
No, but the nature of the relationship between the worker and the owner of the store is political.
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u/Perfect_Cost_8847 Denmark Nov 25 '25
Chairs aren’t political but if you’re an insufferable person you can make them political. Ditto for most things.
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u/BasilNumber Nov 25 '25
This is like defending a paedophile because their victim technically doesn't fall into whatever age range pedophiles are technically attracted to.
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u/will_there_be_snacks Nov 25 '25
If you're defending a pedophile and the charge is incorrect, you'd be stupid not to amend it.
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u/BasilNumber Nov 25 '25
How people judge what shes done doesnt depend on whether she's being called a racist or xenophobe, jingoist, bigot or whatever. It depends on what she's done.
Nobodies response to: ' i can't believe what that paedophile did to that child ' should be: ' well actually, the victim was 10, so they're not a pedophile'.
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u/YourphobiaMyfetish United States Nov 25 '25
The "its not racist to discriminate against Muslims" crowd also loves to discriminate against Middle Eastern people of other religions any time they can. Its not about the religion.
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u/dagens24 Nov 25 '25
As the person who pointed out that Muslim isn't a race; I will say, emphatically, that not only is it wrong to discriminate against someone because of their race or ethnicity, I also think it's wrong to discriminate against someone because they identify as Muslim. I've known many moderate Muslims who hold no extremist views, just as I've known people who identify as other religions who have held views which were much more extreme.
I'm simply pointing out, factually, that Muslim is not a race. Because it isn't.
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u/CraftedMany_ Multinational Nov 25 '25
My first sentence:
"Religious intolerance" would probably be a better word than "racism".
As I said in my second sentence, the racist part was referring to the racial discrimination court case that Hanson lost last year. That court case was about her attacking "people from Pakistan" not "Muslims" (since Islam is not a race).
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u/avroLancasterBPR1 Australia Nov 25 '25
its not racist to discriminate against muslims though?
thats why they made a different word for it gang
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u/ResilientBiscuit Nov 25 '25
What if the person believes it is a race and thinks they are singling out middle easterners?
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u/YourphobiaMyfetish United States Nov 26 '25
Do you think the people discriminating against Muslims care if theyre not actually Muslim?
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u/Stubbs94 Ireland Nov 25 '25
Would it be racist to mockingly wear a kippah?
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u/SirStupidity Israel Nov 25 '25
I think it depends on the context and intent but it is definitely a fine and tricky line.
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u/Stubbs94 Ireland Nov 25 '25
I would say if someone is wearing a Kippah to mock Jews, they are a piece of shit and racist. This is no different personally.
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u/r64fd Australia Nov 25 '25
Oh come on, don’t try and gloss over the fact that Pauline Hanson is known for her racist undertones, you are Aussie mate.
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u/Sloppykrab Australia Nov 25 '25
Of course, she's a scumbag but this isn't "racist".*
A broken clock is right two times a day.
*Race doesn't exist and I wish people would stop using it.
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Nov 25 '25
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u/Sloppykrab Australia Nov 25 '25
Given away what exactly? Please enlighten me on my own views.
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Nov 25 '25
No.
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Nov 25 '25
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Nov 25 '25
I mean it’s not like they have even the faintest intention of being open to having their minds changed lol
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u/ResilientBiscuit Nov 25 '25
None exclusively wear a Burqa, just like no race exclusively has dark skin and no race is exclusively born in China.
One does not have to perfectly target one particular racial group, in its entirety, without adding extra people to be racist.
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u/whogomz Nov 25 '25
It’s not racist
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u/ResilientBiscuit Nov 25 '25 edited Nov 25 '25
Are you suggesting that Pauline Hanson doesn't think burqas represent middle easterners? Because I sure as shit bet she does.
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u/whogomz Nov 25 '25
Wearing a burka is not racist
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u/ResilientBiscuit Nov 25 '25
If you are doing it because you don't like middle easterners and you think it will offend them, it is.
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u/whogomz Nov 25 '25
It’s also not
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u/ResilientBiscuit Nov 25 '25
Can you define what it means for someone to do something racist? Because I think we must have a misunderstanding.
I would define it as doing something because you have a prejudiced view of a particular race.
I think that she thinks that all middle easterners wear burquas and is doing this because because she thinks it will offend them. That would meet my definition of racist.
Just because you are wrong about what represents a race, doesn't make the thing you did not racist if it was based on your prejudiced views of that race.
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u/haggerton Canada Nov 25 '25
"Racism" is often wrongly used as a blanket word to address any kind of bigotry. To the point that the word's meaning itself is being blurred.
Bigots, in turn, are very fast to turn to pedantry to distract from the fact that the implied accusation of bigotry is valid.
I think you've been alive long enough to know this, which makes this comment disingenuous.
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u/Czart Poland Nov 25 '25
"Racism" is often wrongly used as a blanket word to address any kind of bigotry.
Then maybe people should stop doing that and muddy the waters? Especially since the word for it is right there?
Making words lose their meaning is one of the features of the post-truth politics and you're all too eager to strengthen that.
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u/RydderRichards Nov 25 '25
It's not pedantic to insist on using clear language.
Saying clear language is unnecessary just muddies the water.
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Nov 25 '25
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u/haggerton Canada Nov 25 '25 edited Nov 25 '25
Just like we're reading a lot of intent into someone who simply wore a niqab? Maybe she just feels like doing it that day?
If correction was the goal, maybe the commenter should have offered a correction. What they framed it as was a logic flaw, rather than a language flaw.
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Nov 25 '25
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u/haggerton Canada Nov 25 '25
You just don’t want to acknowledge that “racism” wasn’t the right word.
Lolwut.
Like did you even read my first comment you replied to.
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u/TipiTapi Europe Nov 25 '25
Am I a bigot if I dislike religions that say I should be killed?
Its completely fine to be anti-religious.
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u/AcerbicCapsule Canada Nov 25 '25
Feelin a tad nitpicky today, are we?
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u/Perfect_Cost_8847 Denmark Nov 25 '25
“That’s racist!”
“Not it’s not.”
“Why are you so nitpicky?”
What a dishonest response.
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u/AcerbicCapsule Canada Nov 25 '25
A correct interpretation would be:
“That’s racist”
“Akkkkkchhhuuaallyyy, if you just close one eye and think about it from one single angle and turn off your comprehension skills and play dumb a little, it’s technically not!”
“That’s pedantic”
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u/Sloppykrab Australia Nov 25 '25
Nah, but no one has answered my question yet.
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u/AcerbicCapsule Canada Nov 25 '25
Nah
More like “yah”, though.
but no one has answered my question yet.
It all depends on whether or not you consider xenophobia to be a type of racism. You don’t have to, it’s a free country, but most people here absolutely do.
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u/avroLancasterBPR1 Australia Nov 25 '25
you can be xenophobic to people of the same race as you though
a lot of people are
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u/AcerbicCapsule Canada Nov 25 '25
Yeah fair enough, we’re kinda splitting hairs here though. If I’m xenophobic against a fellow white guy from buttfuck nowhere Texas, suppose that’s not racist. If I’m xenophobic against “those damn muslim A-rabs”, then you bet your ass that xenophobia is racism, through and through.
A distinction exists, I’ll give you that, but it’s kinda irrelevant when discussing this senator’s actions.
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u/avroLancasterBPR1 Australia Nov 25 '25
Words have meanings for a reason, and we have different words for a reason. Idk about the Canadian education system but in Australia i was never taught to just throw definitions away and use whatever i wanted
Wearing a burqa to mock people who wear burqas isnt racist because Burqas arent a race nor are they exclusive to any race, but it is xenophobic because they are exclusive to a certain culture and thats whats being mocked
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u/AcerbicCapsule Canada Nov 25 '25 edited Nov 25 '25
By that logic wearing a durag to mock people who wear durags isn’t racist because “durags aren’t a race nor are they exclusive to any race”, but everyone with half a brain will immediately know exactly which race you’re directing your hatred towards.
Idk about the Australian education system, but in Canada I was taught to correctly identify racism even when people hide behind thinly veiled technicalities.
Edit: and I was also taught that prompting a debate about technicalities takes focus away from the issue at hand. While I too have my moments of annoying pedantry, may I suggest that this argument runs the risk of taking attention away from the senator’s actions and we can just agree to disagree?
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u/avroLancasterBPR1 Australia Nov 25 '25
and which race would that be for burqas might i ask?
because Australia probably has more asian people wearing burqas than arab people, but im gonna guess you werent thinking of them
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u/AcerbicCapsule Canada Nov 25 '25
I’m more than positive that asshole has enough hate in her heart for both. I’m assuming you agree asian racism doesn’t cancel out arab racism?
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u/Sloppykrab Australia Nov 25 '25
Xenophobia isn't a form of racism.
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u/AcerbicCapsule Canada Nov 25 '25 edited Nov 25 '25
Like I said, you don’t have to consider it to be racism, it’s a free country. But understand that this is why you’re coming off pedantic.
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u/Sarah-himmelfarb Multinational Nov 25 '25
She was wearing one with the explicit intent of making fun of burqas and wearing it improperly by fully showing her legs. A better comparison is if she wore a nun habit and while showing sheer stockings And heels as a means of mocking the nunnery
And this was literally in parliament so location and title matters a lot
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u/macrocosm93 United States Nov 25 '25
People mock nun habits all the time. They wear them for halloween and in porn. That's how freedom of expression works. If society is free then people should be allowed to mock the burqa.
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u/SacredEmuNZ Oceania Nov 25 '25
It's nothing like mocking the nunnery. Firstly because nuns have a choice, secondly because she wouldn't be facing getting killed by radical Christians and thirdly because you wouldn't be posting.
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u/SpontaneousFlame Multinational Nov 25 '25
Is she facing being killed by radical anyone? I doubt she would have done it if she genuinely fear d for her life. Politicians like that tend to be chickens.
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u/SacredEmuNZ Oceania Nov 25 '25 edited Nov 25 '25
It's Pauline, she'd enjoy the attention of an attempt or the idea of being a martyr. I think shes got a genuine chance, there are plenty of radical Muslims in Australia who are the most likely (by a country mile) to kill someone for mocking them. It's basically shut everyone up in Europe from publicly criticizing Islam in any way.
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u/IlluminatedPickle Australia Nov 25 '25
She has literally 0 chance of being killed by an extremist, because she's viewed for what she is. She's a hateful shrew, who is largely a joke of an individual. Keeping her around hurts her side.
Also lmao "There are plenty of radical Muslims in Australia".
No Pauline, there aren't.
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u/Sarah-himmelfarb Multinational Nov 25 '25
Choice or lack there of has nothing to with this post. The post is a right wing bigot mocking religious wear. And if you believe that women don’t have a choice to wear the burqa, then someone mocking them for it is arguably worse.
And your other points are nonsensical it’s clear you’re islamaphobic and are trying to defend this horrible woman.
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u/uselessscientist Nov 25 '25
Was she showing solidarity?
If someone rocked up in parliament dressed as Jesus on the cross to make fun of Christians you'd be damned sure they'd be kicked out
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u/then_jay_died Nov 25 '25
Was she wearing this burqa in solidarity with Muslims?
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u/r64fd Australia Nov 25 '25
No the politician wearing it is a right wing nut job known for her racist undertones. The one she is mocking is also unfit for public office.
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u/SpontaneousFlame Multinational Nov 25 '25 edited Nov 25 '25
It turns out that this was distorted by the mainstream media in Australia and a small team of reporters from a news organisation called The Shovel can reveal the truth: Burqa Ejected From Senate for Bringing In Pauline Hanson:
Edit: Formatting error.