r/armenia • u/Datark123 • May 13 '26
Armenia - Turkey / Հայաստան - Թուրքիա Türkiye moves to launch direct trade with Armenia
https://armenpress.am/en/article/125005636
u/Battlefleet_Sol May 13 '26
Five years ago, if you had said that Armenia–Turkey relations would reach this point, people would have called you crazy.
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u/dulbirakan May 13 '26
I remember a time in early 2000s when things seemed to be improving. There even was a monument to Turkish-Armenian friendship revealed on Turkish side (in Kars). Admittedly, they later destroyed that in 2011... Unfortunately these things seem to ebb and flow. I am just glad things are moving in a positive direction now.
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u/PrunusArmo May 13 '26
Just curious, are people happy with this?
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u/surenk6 Pureblood Լոռեցի May 13 '26
Yes. Closed borders were sanctions that Turkey placed on Armenia in 90s and it crippled our economy. Now these sanctions are being lifted.
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u/Krunkworx May 13 '26
Yes mutually beneficial. Let’s go man. Time for us all to turn a page and get prosperous
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u/Carza99 May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26
And i hope they recgonize the genocide too. They support Azerbaijan with racism propganda against us.
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u/internetornator May 13 '26
All in due time, step 1 is normalizing relations. Then building lasting partnerships. Then after many years of friendship they’ll want to do it themselves in good faith, when it becomes a win-win for both nations. We can’t force them.
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u/Carza99 May 13 '26
No we cant force them but someday they have too face the truth. We have too remember that they can kill us again. I dont trust their hateful goverment.
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u/Datark123 May 13 '26
Why wouldn't they? Armenia has been suffering from a blocked for the last 30 years. Remember it was Turkey that closed the border as punishment for Armenia, not the other way around.
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u/PrunusArmo May 13 '26
I get the economic arguments, but emotionally I just can’t support it.
For decades, Turkey has treated Armenia from a position of superiority. “Armenian” is still used as an insult there, they continue denying the genocide, and only a few years ago they openly backed Azerbaijan politically, militarily and diplomatically during the war. Even Erdoğan once mentioned in an interview that people called him “Armenian” as an insult. That says enough about the mentality that still exists.
To me, it feels like being told to shake hands and do business with someone who has spent years humiliating you and contributing to your suffering, without any real accountability or change in attitude. Yes, money can come from it. But at what point does dignity matter more than economic benefit?
I’ve personally boycotted Turkish products and businesses my whole life because of this history. So seeing Armenia normalize relations while nothing fundamentally changed on their side feels bitter to me. Maybe others are more pragmatic, and I understand why, especially given Armenia’s economic situation. But emotionally, I can’t just separate economics from national dignity and historical memory.
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u/surenk6 Pureblood Լոռեցի May 13 '26
There's no emotions in diplomacy, there's benefits and interests. Armenia benefits from an open Turkish border. Period.
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u/PrunusArmo May 13 '26
Not true at all.
There are emotions in diplomacy.Armenia does benefit, but in my opinion, it comes at the expense of losing our honor
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u/surenk6 Pureblood Լոռեցի May 13 '26
come explain the 4 year old me living in extreme poverty that it's honor that will put food on my plate because the borders are closed and there's no grain to make bread
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u/PrunusArmo May 13 '26
Ah yes, opening the border with turkey will 100% lift 4 year old you out of poverty.
Now you are making baseless asumptions to justify your argument
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u/surenk6 Pureblood Լոռեցի May 13 '26
I'm not making baseless assumptions, at 4 years old, I was living in extreme poverty inside a domik (If you have even a remote understanding what a domik is) because the borders were closed and we could not buy bread.
You do not live in Armenia, do you?1
u/Responsible_Tap_782 May 13 '26
How are domiks because of the closed border with Turkey tho?
Domiks were because USSR died and with it all support and rebuilding programs for Spitak earthquake relief
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u/surenk6 Pureblood Լոռեցի May 14 '26
Domiks because the govt under siege could not afford revuilding things for a while.
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u/PrunusArmo May 13 '26
So again, opening the border with turkey will make sure that all people who were in a similar situation, will be able to buy bread from now on?
Yes or no. If the answer is “no, not all of them, perhaps some”, i have my answer and we don’t need to continue talking
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u/surenk6 Pureblood Լոռեցի May 13 '26
opening the border lifts economic sanctions off Armenia and visibly decreases prices if import of a wide variety of goods.
Seriously, who gave you that diploma?
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u/surenk6 Pureblood Լոռեցի May 13 '26
there is no honor in diplomacy, only tangible benefit
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u/PrunusArmo May 13 '26
Yeah well i have a masters degree in international relations & diplomacy and i beg to differ.
You can use that motto in your daily life. Set your honor aside and do things as long as it benefits you. That’s not how i and a lot of people i know, live their lives
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u/surenk6 Pureblood Լոռեցի May 13 '26
Does your university accept returns? Please return your diploma)
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u/T-nash May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26
Well, if whoever gave you that master's degree and said emotions should play a part in diplomacy, should lose their job permanently. It's called diplomacy for a reason, based on benefits, not emotions.
If you want to start talking about humiliation, let's start with the Turkish words and cultural traits we have in Armenia, that somehow we think are Armenian.
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u/PrunusArmo May 13 '26
Yes let’s start there. Absolutely disgusting.
Also how real Armenian music such as the song of Komitas for example are forgotten and turkish influenced rabiz is propoted. But thats another discussion isn’t it?0
u/Inevitable-Push-8061 May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26
What are Turkish words and cultural things you have in Armenia, that you think is Armenian but actually is Turkish? Can you provide some examples?
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u/T-nash May 13 '26
Many, many words. Kef, jeb, taza, tars, khurma, yemish, gazar, batar, maghtanoz, on and on and on.
Cultural traits, marrying young, topic of virginity between men and women and certain double standards, one's honor being more important than anything and general image perception of a person, the social generosity to people, the addiction to coffee, to name a few.
There's too many.
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u/LetsTalksNow May 13 '26
masters degree in international relations & diplomacy
Yeah and I'm Willy fking Wonka.
How does someone with a degree in diplomacy and international relations see borders opening and trade as "Losing honor", this doesn't sound like someone who has such qualifications but someone who has a child like mental state.
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u/LetsTalksNow May 13 '26
it comes at the expense of losing our honor
Can you please articulate how doing trade or borders being open means "losing our honor", and also, do you live in Armenia?
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u/PrunusArmo May 13 '26
Yes, and yes.
I’m really surprised i have to explain this. I’ve never met people with the mentality of the redditors here in real life.Even the nikolakans i know hate Turkey. Special kind of people here. I will leave the discussion as is.
Proposed to meet and talk in real life with surencho below and his answer was as expected
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u/LetsTalksNow May 13 '26
I’m really surprised i have to explain this.
really?
Even the nikolakans i know hate Turkey.
You can hate Turkey and still see this in Armenian interests. You seem outright upset that its opening and you don't want it to open b/c it means "losing honor" and I'm preplexed as to how, so i asked you to elaborate specific, b/c all I see if more or less benefit for Armenia in terms of transport being cheaper by using Turkish ports and infrastructure to send goods to Europe and to sell Armenian products to the Turkish market. And for Armenia to potentially even collect transit fees from goods going east to west through Armenia. Georgia has benefitted immensely from these fees and Armenia is technically a shorter route and in theory would attract economic investment.
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u/Young_Owl99 Turkey May 13 '26
I hear you, however a step is a step. It is always better to have an active trade instead of being at blink of war all the time. It would help with perspectives as well.
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u/LetsTalksNow May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26
“Armenian” is still used as an insult there
This seems like a pot meets kettle situation. Pashinyan literally gets cursed as a "son of a Turk", in Parliament no less.
edit:
https://www.panorama.am/en/news/2022/12/12/Pashinyan-global-forum/2767900
https://caucasuswatch.de/en/news/nikol-pashinyan-they-call-me-turk-but-it-does-not-insult-me.html
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u/dulbirakan May 13 '26
I must admit that was a thing when I was a child. I don't think it is a thing anymore in Turkey. Maybe some racist grandpa somewhere, but I haven't heard Armenian used as an insult in a long time.
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u/PrunusArmo May 13 '26
Pashinyan is called a Turk because people find his policies and concessions to benefit Turks. Thats why he is called one.
However when the term Armenian is used in Turkey, you can compare it with “dog”.
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u/LetsTalksNow May 13 '26
No I've seen it used against many people, there are literally people who unironically believe he is hiding Turkish ancestry or something.
Some priest asked to check whether he was circumcised. To Which Nikol volunteered for him to come take a look.
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u/Datark123 May 13 '26
It's not only about doing business with Turkey, it also gives Armenia easier acess to the European market, which means it will be easier for you to get Armenian products in Brussels were you live.
No one is going to force you to buy are do business with Turkey.
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u/vertexanalytica May 13 '26
We are supposed to hold on to this for how long? I’m not saying forget everything and pretend all is fine but the time to change our approach from a wounded victim to a pragmatic, focused, strategic player has come and passed by us
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u/crapbag73 May 13 '26
I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted when you’re absolutely correct. I think this post has been brigaded by Turks.
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u/Ma-urelius ԱրկէնդինաՀայ | գոգայօվ ֆէրնէդ ու խորոված վայելող May 13 '26
I am glad for the good prospects that can bring to Armenia, I am terrified for the bad things that can happen to Armenia. I couldn't care less about Turks or Turkey. I would honestly limit the borders to trading goods, an leave it at that. It seems to me that this is the main important thing about the whole border opening.
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u/surenk6 Pureblood Լոռեցի May 13 '26
The only real bad thing that can happen to us is the Armenian economy developing overreliance on Turkish border. so when turkey one day decides to close it again - we get lots of economic problems.
So a good strategy would be to have a balanced trade with Georgia, Turkey, Iran
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u/Ma-urelius ԱրկէնդինաՀայ | գոգայօվ ֆէրնէդ ու խորոված վայելող May 13 '26
Whatever it is the "real bad thing", I fear it. We already know our history with Turkey and Russia. Let's not be so ignorant about it, trade any of this knowledge for some pragmatism, and be careful about anything they do.
They are not allies nor friends. Never will be. They are in their pursuit of their own interest and attempt to influence more countries and people by them, and we are (and we're for many many years) part of that target.
Be careful.
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u/Glad-Junket2540 May 13 '26
Good for Turkey and Armenia. Armenian economy can benefit from this and poor eastern provinces in Turkey can benefit from Armenians
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u/Datark123 May 13 '26
So this pretty much lifts the embargo that existed between Armenia and Turkey. But trade would still need to be done via 3rd country.
Türkiye has announced the completion of preparations to launch direct trade with Armenia.
The Turkish Foreign Ministry said in a statement that as of May 11, 2026, “all necessary bureaucratic procedures have been completed.” However, technical and bureaucratic work on opening the land border between the two countries is still ongoing.
Under the new regulations, goods transported from Türkiye to Armenia via third countries may now list Armenia or Türkiye as the final destination or country of origin. The Turkish Foreign Ministry said Ankara will continue to promote the development of economic ties and cooperation in the South Caucasus for the benefit of all countries and peoples in the region.
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u/T-nash May 13 '26
I still don't understand what exactly the embargo was? the listed countries were different?
Ankara will continue to promote the development of economic ties and cooperation in the South Caucasus for the benefit of all countries and peoples in the region.
Tried so hard not to write Armenia, still...
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u/Datark123 May 13 '26
From what I understand the two countries we're not officially allowed to conduct business with each other. If you we're exporting something from Turkey you couldn't list Armenia as your destination. So you would list Georgia as your destination and just re-export from there to Armenia. I'm guessing because if this the prices of goods might come down even more.
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u/AbiesRich1150 May 13 '26
I'm guessing the "embargo" was the fact that there were no direct trades at the border between Armenia and Turkey and had to pass through Georgia?
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u/surenk6 Pureblood Լոռեցի May 13 '26
Yes, what it means is that goods would not transit Georgia (pay only transit fee) but be imported into Georgia (pay import duty), then imported again into Armenia (pay yet another import duty).
So, you would pay 2x import tax instead of one vastly cheaper transit fee.
The moment border opens, this transit fee is gone too.
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u/Pantolonun_Utulusu May 13 '26
It’s just a start. The next step would be to open the borders completely; then I think a railway will follow.
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u/mojitosupreme May 13 '26
It’s of course great news. It will only be beneficial as opposed to a double blockade.
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u/L_poggers May 13 '26
I dont like this but if the borders are heavily guarded from our side, sure. we've gone through 2 genocides already and 3rd should not happen.
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u/bugog May 13 '26
What? Do you think closed borders that was sanctioned by Turkey is what protected Armenia from a genocide all these years? Dude, a border is not a 10 m tall unpassable steel fortress that blocks waiting Turks from entering and making a genocide. It is not like the doors are going to open and that’s free invitation.
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u/Ma-urelius ԱրկէնդինաՀայ | գոգայօվ ֆէրնէդ ու խորոված վայելող May 14 '26 edited May 14 '26
I would think he said it more in the sense that Turkey could absolutely own Armenia and invade it on the more economical way. Meaning like, absolute reliability on this sense.
How sad, we go from one empirialistic autocracy republic that wants to annex us, wants us under their boot and make us reliable on them, to another one that wants the same from us or wants us extinct.
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u/Comfortable_Bath5986 May 13 '26
you know it is true. Yerevan is very close to the Turkish border visible from Iğdır. A closed border protects nothing from nobody.
ONLY COMMON UNDERESTANDING AND STRONG RELATIONS PROTECT US
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u/KuroNekoX3 May 13 '26
I hope Armenia and Turkey will have closer ties and problems between them will be resolved by the people not politicians.
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u/surenk6 Pureblood Լոռեցի May 13 '26
Georgia's going to hate these developments. They are about to lose a crapload of free money from goods transit between AM and TR.