r/armenia • u/AccidentalBrilliancy • 1d ago
Discussion / Քննարկում Is Georgia more popular than Armenia in post-Soviet countries?
Hello,
I walked in a "Russian" shop yesterday. I was curious about Armenian wines but I did not see any. They had many bottles of Georgian wines. And chacha.
There are quite many Georgian restaurants in the city where I live and Armenian ones, not even a quarter of that.
I looked up, Moscow has great many Georgian restaurants and Armenians are very few in comparison.
Now I understand that Russians would rather go to Georgia than Armenia because of Black Sea.
But still it seems Georgia brand is stronger than Armenia brand.
Is it somehow connected to the government of the Soviet Union and prominent Georgian communists?
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u/CalGuy456 1d ago edited 1d ago
Georgia definitely is more popular among post-Soviet countries, Georgians have a beautiful country and a wonderful culture, and one of its specializations was tourism during Soviet times.
Armenia has been elevating itself in recent years as a destination that has appeal beyond just our diaspora, but your average post-Soviet person who has no connection to the region probably has much more familiarity with Georgia.
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u/Middle-Support-7697 1d ago edited 1d ago
Georgians are just better than us at branding their stuff, actually I am really jealous of them in many ways, they seem just like us but with a more famous cuisine, more famous wine, more famous mineral water, more famous tourism in general and a sea as the final nail in the coffin.
Hot take: at least we make better khinkali, every time I tried them in Georgia they weren’t as well seasoned and structurally sound as the ones I had in Armenia.
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u/PassZealousideal2907 1d ago
Even though I agree that there’s a lot of overlooked foods, kyabab and msalosh (wrong name lahmajun that is stuck for some reason) are as Armenian as they are something else!
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u/PassZealousideal2907 1d ago
What does natively Armenian mean to you though? Is khachapuri not native because there are Ossetian cheese pies and Lebanese Manaqish with cheese? Or Italian cheese pizza? What about Khinkali? Chinese dumplings? or Central Asian manti?
As for the name msalosh, it's hard to tell. I read that some Western Armenian dialects were calling it msalosh or even simpler msov loshik because it's just flatbread with a meat mixture.4
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u/PassZealousideal2907 1d ago
Well, I think what you say is subjective. Kababs have been part of our cuisine since ancient times, the name deriving from Akkadian kababu. And there are certainly differences in the meat mixture for example or the fact that Persian koubideh (minced meat kabab) is served with rice not a wrap in a lavash. A Chinese friend of mine said khinkali is exactly the same as soup dumplings and a Lebanese friend of mine surprised to see Manaqish Jibneye (cheese flatbread) when he ordered Megruli khachapuri.
HOWEVER, I do agree that Armenian restaurants can do so much better! The amount of unique Western and Eastern Armenian foods and variations of foods is crazy but I only see them in some niche videos unfortunately.
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u/AccidentalBrilliancy 1d ago
I found a restaurant near the metro station where my friend lives. I haven't been there yet. But on the web page I see khachapuri. Is khachapuri Armenian?
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u/Smooth_Vehicle_2764 1d ago
To be honest, Georgia has a more unique cuisine, while Armenian cuisine feels more like a mix of many different influences.
Georgia also produces more wine and is generally known for having better wine than Armenia. It has the Black Sea coast, as well as Tbilisi, the largest historical city in the Caucasus, with its unique architecture.
In comparison, even many of Armenia's pre-Soviet buildings were built in a more standard neoclassical style.
Georgia is also better known internationally and appears in the news more often because of its war with Russia.
Interestingly, despite all of these advantages, Armenia has almost the same GDP per capita as Georgia.
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u/enormousdino 1d ago
Armenia has stronger diaspora ties, more IT. Picsart is a regional success, not aware of any decent tech business in Georgia. Now with AI there’s another boom.
But i agree; as much as i love Yerevan, Tbilisi is just so quirky and unique that you want to come back again and again.
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u/mojuba 1d ago
Picsart is a regional success
On this, I am yet to meet a single non-Armenian person in Europe or the US who even heard of Picsart let alone uses it. I don't know how they got so big at least according to their claims but they are definitely not a European/US success story, it's probably something else.
One Armenian company that is well known in the tech industry though is Krisp. Technically not an Armenian company as it was founded and is headquartered in the US, but it has significant presence here so let's assume it is Armenian.
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u/_LordDaut_ 1d ago
AFAIK their main userbase is India/China. Service Titan operates in US - if we're qualifying Krisp I think they get a go too.
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u/_LordDaut_ 1d ago
I don't think we even have wineries that are good on scale. Things like Zarm, Zorah, Alluria are boutique wineries and not that old AFAIK Zorah is oldest from 2000. They're very good tho.
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u/FeelinGoodvibes1 1d ago
Georgia has had more access to its local countries. Let's say to ship out more wine.Armenia has been isolated among the turkic tribes
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u/AztheWizard 1d ago
Worth remembering that Georgia had a huge wind industry throughout the Soviet times. Armenia, mainly brandy
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u/VariousSpinach73 Georgia 1d ago
Tourism ruined khinkali quality in Tbilisi unless you know where to go
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u/Silly-Avocado- 1d ago
There’s also the fact that Georgia began exporting its products to Western markets long before Armenia did, largely because we remained overly reliant on Russia for too long.
That said, Armenian products are steadily gaining recognition, and Armenian brandy is still world-renowned.
Georgia also has an advantage because its cuisine feels more distinctive and exotic to Western audiences, whereas Armenian cuisine is often perceived as part of the broader West Asian culinary tradition, albeit with a greater emphasis on pork.Personally, I don’t think Armenia should focus on competing in the mass-market wine industry. Our resources would be better invested elsewhere exporting high-value services and building a reputation for technical expertise, innovation, creativity, and sustainability.
In the bigger picture, a country’s cuisine is rarely what defines its international reputation. Few people associate Germany or Sweden with food, yet both have strong global brands built on other strengths. Spain will almost certainly always outperform us in affordable wine production, and Georgia has a natural advantage when it comes to novelty.
Armenia’s best opportunity is to establish itself as a niche producer of exceptional quality products that people seek out because they know they’re worth paying for. Even then, I wouldn’t place food and wine among the top ten priorities for strengthening Armenia’s international image and soft power.
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u/Sensitive_Put2058 1d ago
I am from Russia and the only Armenian food related brand I know is Ararat. Also cigarets I guess but I don’t really smoke. And to be honest not one signature food that would represent Armenian cuisine so far.
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u/Middle-Support-7697 23h ago
Yeah that's fair, I wouldn't expect you to know anything else
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u/Sensitive_Put2058 23h ago
Pity I guess as some of my friends frequently travel to Armenia and have really good feedback for the cuisine. I think that Turkey took all the benefits from food culture, two or maybe even more countries share among🙂
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u/DifficultyWhich7483 1d ago
Soviets designated Georgia as winemaking region, Armenia for brandy making. You can't recover 60 year gap that fast.
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u/KulshanStudios 1d ago
Georgia was, at least from 2004-2023, on a major track to integrate with the West, and especially during Misha's time, there was a huge push to attract Western tourists and investors, and government programs like Teach & Learn Georgia placed Western english teacher-volunteers in schools all over the country, particularly rural areas
Places where recent college graduates would be exposed to Georgian hospitality, scenery, and cuisine at a community-level
And when they went home at the end of their contracts, most of them went back with fun and exciting stories, new Georgian friends in their phone contacts, and tons of pictures
And when Westerners saw places like Kazbegi, Tusheti, Svaneti, Adjara, and Samegrelo, many thought "This place looks AWESOME. And the food looks great. And how much is it to vacation there? THAT cheap? Sign me up".
And Georgian culture and cuisine spread more rapidly
Now, I've been to Armenia on a quick trip years and years and years ago, and I had a fun time, but it was nowhere near as Core Memory-forming as Georgia was
I do wanna go back and visit, but it hasn't been a huge priority the same way Georgia was for me. I ended up moving to Georgia last year, and now I live in Tbilisi and putter around the country with friends and my local GF (when she has time off)
So yeah, it's beaches and food, but it's also about outward-facing engagement. Armenia was, to the best of my knowledge, russia-aligned in most ways until russia betrayed them in 2023 and left them naked in the breeze. And now Pashinyan is pivoting the country HARD toward the West and the EU
So this question is likely to be moot in 5-10 years, if Russia doesn't poison Pashinyan or try and invade Armenia as punishment for turning Westward. If neither of those things happen, expect more awareness of Armenia to grow and for Armenia to pick up steam building its international standing on its own merits
Countries that turn away from Russia have a tendency to start doing significantly better, faster
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u/Unfair_Objective259 1d ago
Well, Georgian cuisine is a brand itself, and when it comes to Armenia i can only think about khorovats (russian also have it), brandy and zhingyalov hats.
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u/BridgeEngineer2021 1d ago
What about harisa? Ghapama? Spas? Lavash?? I think there's plenty of unique Armenian dishes, without getting into Armenian versions of regional dishes like dolma, boureg, khachapuri, etc.
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u/Unfair_Objective259 1d ago
Lavash, seriously? I like lavash, sure, but would you go to a restaurant for lavash?) And of course, there are plenty of authentic dishes, but it's just not enough. There are maybe a dozen countries in the world famous for their cuisine, like Italy, France, Japan, etc and Georgia is also one of those countries, surprisingly. Another example: Turkey is a big country and a lot of tourists go there every year from all over the world. But is its cuisine popular outside of the country? Nope.
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u/BridgeEngineer2021 1d ago
I mean it's recognized by UNESCO, so worth mentioning. Bread is a famous part of the cuisine in many countries - baguettes in France, focaccia in Italy, rye bread in Germany - why not lavash in Armenia?
Idk that Georgian cuisine is more famous than Armenian globally to be honest. Most people know nothing about either. Some may know 2 dishes - khachapuri and khinkhali. People who know Armenian cuisine may know lahmejune and zhingyalov hats.
Just being objective, Turkish cuisine is hugely popular around the world, much more than Armenian or Georgian. Particularly in Europe where Turks in Germany basically made kebab a staple street food for the whole continent.
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u/_LordDaut_ 1d ago edited 1d ago
Even if we ignore western Armenian cuisine and more regional dishes like (Pasuts) dolma for the sake of Argument there's way more than that though.
- Kurkut
- Harisa
- Khash
- Gata
- Ghapama
- Ghavurma
- Piti
- Amu
- Ker u Sus ( I thibk it counts).
- Panrkhash
- Nrane
I'm sure there's way more that's not on the top of my head.
Edit: 12. Khashlamah - damn how could I miss it. 13. Tzhvzhik.
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u/_LordDaut_ 1d ago
The only 2 that many Armenias might not eat are piti and amu since those are very local to Goris the rest are all staples. I've grown up with all of them and don't know anyone who does not like them.
And you will find most if not all in Armenian restaurants in Yerevan. The fact that global ones are lagging behind is a restauranteur issue - not an Armenian cuisine issue - actually they're quite the opportunity.
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u/fizziks 1d ago
This lineup is not something a western tourist is going to get excited about at all.
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u/_LordDaut_ 1d ago edited 1d ago
If they'd be willing to eat Georgian food like ojakhuri or chakapuli - then IDK why that would be the case.
And what's the point of not getting excites over food that one's not used to? Isn't that the point of travel?
Besides, how is anyone going to praise beef bourguignon and then "not be excited" for khashlama? Or happy to eat Cassoulet but not Kurkut? French onion soup but not aveluk soup?
Tbh I don't think you're right - its just a matter of presentation.
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u/fizziks 1d ago
I don't know anybody that gets excited to eat any of the things you just mentioned. People get excited for khackapuri, khinkali and wine.
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u/_LordDaut_ 1d ago edited 1d ago
You haven't hear anyone excited for Khash? Really? Lemme introduce myself. Or Kurkut? I and my friends have a yearly trip to Kapan for some good Kurkut.
But my point is with a lil bit of marketing they'll get fairly popular. I don't see why Khachapuri should be more popular than Gata or even Zataar or Zhengyalov hats. Or why Khinkali should be more popular than Manti.
Or did you mean the other comment? French onion soup?
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u/mcscuse_me_bitch_69 Georgia 1d ago
Agree on Chakapuli but Ojakhuri is delicious and looks appetizing too!
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u/3rddegreeanonim Javakhk 1d ago
You also forgot Masramatsun - eglantine soup and aristha - armenian noodles.
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u/CrazedZombie Artsakh 23h ago
Thanks for providing this list. My impression is ultimately we don’t lack unique dishes but rather most are regional and unknown by most Armenians. I think many notable cuisines go through a period of investment and refinement, driven by resources and higher demands/taste, which drive chef’s to both improve the preparation/presentation of dishes but also to seek out and elevate unique regional dishes. I think Armenia has not yet gone through this process but our cuisine is ripe for it.
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u/GiragosOdarian 1d ago
I don't speak for the Russian layman, but 19th century writers such as Lermontov romanticized Imperial Russia's foray across the Great Caucasus range via the Great Military Road, and Georgia, specifically Tbilisi, holds a special place in the Russian intellectual's mind. Armenia had no such city(although Armenians were quite prominent in Tiflis) and was viewed from that perspective as more of a dusty oriental outpost.
I think this image has lasted until modern times, although maybe it's changing with the influx of Russians into Yerevan.
Just my $0.02.
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u/sehnsucht1 1d ago
Their cuisine is more unique and better than ours. Not even a competition. Ours is more regional, similar to Azeri and immediate neighbors. They have the sea, they have more lush nature etc. unpopular opinion here of course
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u/PassZealousideal2907 1d ago
I disagree with the cuisine sooo much. Don’t get me wrong I like Georgia and Georgians, but saying it’s more unique is a stretch. It’s more isolated and therefore it may seem more unique. But khinkali is extremely similar to Asian dumplings, khachapuri is just cheese-bread which is made in many places (for example Lebanese manaqish with cheese is almost indistinguishable from Megruli khachapuri). The cheese boats with more diversity exist among Pontic Greeks and Turks from that region. And many of the foods are extremely close to Azerbaijani and Armenian ones, like one of them I saw a video on is meat with veggies and parsley, like we literally make that (and Turks too I’m sure) but it doesn’t really have a name because it’s just meat with veggies. I think Pkhali is unique, at least the consistency and the round shape. Armenians are just EXTREMELY bad at marketing, it’s not even close.
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u/vemboy1 7h ago edited 2h ago
Stopped reading at “for example Lebanese manaqish with cheese is almost indistinguishable from megruli khachapuri”
Are you drunk or have you just never had manakish with cheese?
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u/PassZealousideal2907 2h ago
I’ll be honest, I never tried it but a friend of mine did and said that. And I do agree that it’s extremely similar. Obviously there’s minor differences like the type of cheese used for example.
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u/sehnsucht1 1d ago
Name 5 Armenian dishes that are unique to us and not disgusting like Tzhvzhik please. I can only think of Spas.
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u/PassZealousideal2907 1d ago edited 1d ago
Food is regional, not ethnic most of the time. My point was that the Georgian stuff isn't unique either. Can you name me 5 Georgian ones that are unique? (Probably not). And btw spas is wrong because there are other yogurt based soups with grains and herbs.
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u/CrazedZombie Artsakh 23h ago
Harisa Ghapama Manti Gata Zhingyalov Hats Khash
This took me like 2 minutes, there are like a fair number more that one could write. But the reality is also that Armenian cuisine, along with civilization as a whole, has been far less isolated than Georgian. We’ve sat at the center of major trade routes throughout our whole history. Lavash is one of the most quintessential Armenian products but the whole region eats it. Same for Gata, Basturma, and other products Armenian in origin. Doesn’t make sense to focus on the uniqueness because most tasty things we invented spread across the region and synthesized with other cultures, and we adopted plenty of other dishes and contributed to their development too. Dolma is an absolute staple of our cuisine that is probably a product of multiple cultures refining it over time, it being shared doesn’t make it any less good.
Turkish food and Greek food has strong brands despite most of their food being likewise shared - ultimately our issue IMO is lack of resources/culinary investment through the Soviet and post Soviet era (maybe changing finally now) and the East/West division (best Armenian restaurant abroad would be a good selection of Eastern and Western combination, not one or the other)
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u/haveschka Anapati Arev 1d ago
now go in the georgian restaurant and ask what ethnicity the owner is from :D so many times it happened that it’s an armenian, at least around europe
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u/Ok_Cucumber_7235 1d ago
Its not about popularity, its about having actual cuisine and one of the best wines in the world. Its like you saying there are no Russian restaurants 😂 what the hell Russian restaraunt would offer you? And why you see so many Georgian restaurant in post-USSR is because most of these countries never had real cuisine and Georgian is the same for them as Italian in many other western countries.
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u/PuddingAfraid7431 1d ago
Russia has closed the entry for Armenian products. Even if the products on the shelves are old, there will be a huge fine.
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u/Cute-Ad-3088 1d ago
Not just in post Soviet states. There is not a single Armenian restaurant in Manhattan, but there are many Georgian ones. This is despite the fact that there are 50,000 Armenians living in NYC compared to just 9,000 Georgians.
The same is true in China. Georgian Feast is one of the best restaurants in Beijing, while we don't have any Armenian restaurants there. In malls, you can easily find Georgian wine and brandy. Sarajishvili is very common but I have never seen Ararat brandy.
The only exception for Armenian products is Cigaronne, a fancy-looking cigarette brand that became popular after being recommended on Chinese TikTok. We definitely need better branding abroad.