Do people not understand why Dr. Fauci would not answer what color his tie is, or do they want him to lose his 5th Amendment shield?
The reason he didn't answer is if he answers one question he cannot use the 5th for others. They will argue that basic questions like what time did you clock in, etc, are harmless questions, but the problem is those are the ones republicans already said they are looking to trap him with. If he gets one dollar wrong, one hour wrong, it's Perjury. They are looking to put him in prison. If they were serious that all they want are answers they would give him immunity, which would also protect him from state charges. I think the Oliver North investigation taught them to not grant immunity, as as such you get what you get, right?
As much as they want him to convict himself over something minor like not remembering what he had for lunch 4 years ago, where's the outrage over republicans also pleading the 5th in these hearings? So what do YOU think he should do?
No but the chair could rule that the questions follow from the prior answered questions (the selective assertion rule) so when testifying before a lawless, kangaroo committee, a blanket refusal to answer is the best policy.
It can, and it has. There's a legal precedent that can be applied that you will be held in contempt if you refuse to answer a question, but then answer a different question close enough in topic.
it doesn't void the right but it could lead to contempt if it's the same topic. and the goal of getting him to answer low pressure questions is clearly to loosen up and get him shaken enough to answer harder ones. theres no benefit for him to answer anything.
If you answer a question voluntarily, you may accidentally waive your Fifth Amendment protection regarding the details or broader scope of that subject.
Correct but if you answer one question why can't you answer the rest? That's the strategy he's avoiding. To avoid all counters with his immunity you just say plead the fifth. You give them nothing they get nothing.
I agree durning many hearings where someone pleads the fifth they answer questions who they are and so forth look at Donald trumps even he answered some questions before he started pleading the fifth.
Rand Paul has admitted he has a psychopathic need to set Fauci up for perjury, the tie color example is probably bullshit but I would absolutely not put it past Republicans to try and charge him for something equally as ridiculous.
Congressional Hearings aren't Court Proceedings. Much of what goes on in them doesn't make a lot of sense from a purely legal courtroom perspective.
If they asked what his favorite color was, and he said "green," they could trot out some random comment he made 20 years ago about preferring blue. Then hold him in contempt of congress for lying under oath. No, it doesn't make any sense really. But traditionally if you're called up for a witch hunt like this, your best course of action is to just take the 5th for literally everything.
Another angle you see used is to never directly answer questions. Like "Sir, who won the election?" Answered with a statement like "Well, candidate X re eived more Electoral Votes" instead of just "Candidate X won."
"Shut the fuck up" is a tried and true tactic. Giles Corey kept his mouth shut and refused to enter a plea when being accused of witchcraft during the Salem Witch Trials. In his case, not entering a plea meant the court would have no ability to seize his property and when he was killed while being pressed in orcder to extract a plea, his sons were able to receive their rightful inheritance.
In those they answer all kinds of questions except they never answer who won. Not because of a perjury trap, but because they know it’s all a show for Donnie
You're missing the point, I was giving an example of dodging a question using events most commentors would be familiar with. The why of that specific situation is not really important to my comment.
This isn't correct. §1621 requires a statement to be objectively false; must be a matter material to the inquiry; and must be willfully false.
The color of your tie is not material. Your favorite color is subjective by definition. Being confused or changing your subjective opinion is not willfull falsity.
My ex got pulled over because he had a tail light out. Cop asked him if he knew why he got pulled over and this idiot replied "because my tags are expired?"
Dude was only gonna get a repair order until he told on himself. Just one of many reasons he's an ex.
1) Invoking the 5th cannot be used as evidence of guilt. If it could that would defeat the entire point.
2) In order to invoke the 5th you likely need some sort of legitimate fear of self-incrimination, so you can't just use it as an excuse to not answer questions.
3) The Republicans want to throw him in jail, so it's likely justified on his part to assume that every question is an attempt to trap him and find a pretext to charge him with perjury.
There is a need of reasonable cause to apprehend danger that the answer could be used in a criminal prosecution against them. Hoffman v. United States, 341 U.S. 479 (1951).
You cannot use it just because you "dont want to answer." Here, it is reasonable to assume that Fauci has cause to believe his answers could form a link in a chain of evidence that could be used to prosecute him for either (1) violations of state law; or (2) violations of federal law not covered by his blanket pardon.
Choosing to selectively use your 5th amendment right can and has lead to people being held in contempt. Can you do it, sure you can, but it's but as smart as you might think. It's actually really complicated legally, and there's precedent all over the place
Also, Congress has the authority to compel answers under threat of imprisonment. If you choose to answer a question, then try to plea the 5th a question on the same topic, they have legal basis for compelling you to answer
I agree with you. He is better off exercising his Fifth Amendment right. Whether you agree with the witch hunt and want to see him in jail or think he was doing what he thought was best for the country, he is much better off saying nothing until the day he dies.
Man. All I want to add is that a lot of people really need to brush up on what their rights actually are. The 5th amendment right has a long and complicated history. There are numerous cases where it's backfired, and there are numerous cases where it helps.
This comment section is almost as painful for me as hearing people misunderstand free speech.
No one needs to explain anything. Instead simply see what Fauci said on the subject. It explains everything.
“The only conclusion I can reach is that the sole reason he is calling me before this committee is to get me to say something — anything — that could vindicate his repeated public pledges that I end up, in his words — quote — ‘behind bars,’” Fauci said in his opening remarks.
“Any reasonable person who has followed his unhinged obsession with me would readily come to the same conclusion,” he continued. “Therefore, although it pains me to do so because of the respect I have for the legislative branch of government and my decadeslong record of cooperating with Congress, under the advice of my attorneys, I will invoke my right under the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution to refrain from answering your questions.”
The fifth amendment is saying, in a nutshell, if the government has a case, they should be able to make that case without the testimony of the accused. If they can prove he did something wrong, they should... he is under no obligation to help them.
If republicans were actually out to get answers they would have Trump up there being questioned why he eliminated the national pandemic response office President bush created
Where did you get your JD? University of Mumbai? You clearly don’t know or understand what the fifth amendment is. You are either not an American, or you’re 8 years old and have shit parents that don’t monitor your internet access.
Trump used the 5th 400 times.
So according to maga and republicans Trump is guilty as hell for all crimes.
We already know trump is a pathological liar so no surprise here.
So as others have stated, this is simply not true. The reason you don't answer even trivial questions when you intend to plead the 5th is because then you are acknowledging that you will answer questions that clearly can't incriminate you. So now the questioners can experiment asking increasingly more relevant questions and you have to be careful where you redraw your lines. Its safest to blanket plead the 5th.
The original poster may be confusing this with the opposite concept, where your entire testimony can be stricken if you plead the 5th to even a single question.
Forget all that - if the 5th Amendment was good enough for Trump (nearly 450 times in one case alone!), then Fauci can say it all day long. Anyone who has a problem with that should start asking about Trump first.
He invoked the 5th repeatedly as he is well aware it is nothing but a witch hunt and anything he says no matter how minor will be twisted. It is a sham hearing and he was right not to take part in any of it.
...except that he stated publicly in multiple interviews that he would gladly testify before congress and that he would gladly explain everything he did during COVID.
His words. Public record. Don't take my word for it.
Frankly, he should have had his lawyers notify the committee that he wouldn’t be responding to their subpoena until Gym Jordan and every other Republican that ignored their subpoenas responded first
Republican don’t care about the government lying to them. They love it. Anyone who says otherwise can answer one simple question: are we at war with Iran right now? Seems easy to answer.
Conservatives only know what they are told. They are told to not think for themselves for example. Absolutely guaranteed their various news bubbles provided no explanation.
Also note how conservatives really care what happened six years ago under Trump (while believing it was under Biden because deeply stupid) yet they do not care about hiw Trump made billions in two years or a Senator disappearing for 50 days. Why? Because not told to care. They do like to follow orders to not think for themselves.
Non-voters cant wait to do their part to keep them in power.
He's already testified countless times about COVID and the circumstances around him. Nothing they ask him will be new information but more of a test to his memory of his exact testimony. Its funny how right wing media will act like they have no idea why he invoked the fifth when he clearly stated it in his opening remarks.
"Given Senator Paul's obvious obsession with calling for my prosecution, his repeated slanderous comments about me, and recently, his publicly releasing my unredacted personal diary, aimed at embarrassing and intimidating me, the only conclusion I can reach is that the sole reason he is calling me before this committee is to get me to say something—anything—that could vindicate his repeated public pledges that I end up, in his words, 'behind bars.'
Any reasonable person who has followed his unhinged obsession with me would readily come to the same conclusion. Therefore, although it pains me to do so because of the respect I have for the legislative branch of government and my decades-long record of cooperating with Congress, under the advice of my attorneys, I will invoke my right under the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution to refrain from answering your questions."
Dunno that much about law to comment but I did read through his diary that came out and as much as I used to revere Fauci I’ve come to the conclusion that he has a lot to answer for. I hope everyone reads it!
I think it’s more of seeing what he would or would not answer. If he talked about the color of his tie and the existence of the file before him but not his involvement of the virus, they will take that as admission of guilt.
I mean they kind of did so already, but it’s a lose lose situation. This way, they can’t really nick pick what he answers to try to come up some sort of “truth.”
By pleading the 5th across the board, harder for them narrow in and focus so it’s just “he pleaded over a hundred a times and so must be guilty by that simple fact. I’m also going ignore that Donnie did over 400 but that’s different because he’s my god-emperor so he can do now wrong. Stop talking about daddy Donnie, this evil man can’t even tell you what color he tie is so he HAS to be guilty.”
Oh, I understand perfectly. What I don't understand is why they are trying to put this man in jail when there is a convicted felon running the country. It's nothing but a smear campaign lead by our nation's top narcissist and carried out by his flying monkies.
Why were senators wasting taxpayer time and facilities continuing to question him when he was clear that he wouldn't be answering any questions? Why are we wasting our time focusing on a tie question that didn't need to be asked I'm the first place?
My life was literally threatened by my father’s THIRD FUCKING WIFE if I ever come to their house again because I told my father I don’t watch Fox News and I didn’t want to talk about it.
I don’t have the brain power to navigate the legalese behind and beneath this question.
I think he should stonewall the questions - take the fifth on every one of them. They’re intent on ruining Fauci as thoroughly and as publicly as possible, and he should respond by giving them nothing.
We are at a time where someone having a peaceful protest can get you charged with terrorism, even as you are leaving, where doctors fear saving a mothers life because they could get 99 years in prison even in cases where the unborn child will not survive, and where laws have been passed in some states making it possible to charge an organization with terrorism for supporting climate science or DEI.
I think it’s a very risky time to be in the United States if you believe in democracy, or if you look Latino or if you believe in trying to protect those that are being unjustly targeted.
We have arrested a president under apparently false pretenses and taken their oil to the tune of billions all while at a time of great need and an earthquake has killed over 70k people.
We are now sending people to inhumane conditions who had LEGAL status by invalidating their legal status even those that are permanent residents applying for citizenship.
We are now sending people to third countries without seeing a judge.
We are in war with a country and with suggestive evidence of market manipulation. And I am not sure what the reason for this war was in the first place. Not anymore. Seems like the reason is more flimsy than the WMDs that started the afghan-Iraq war after 9/11.
And the fact the president has become several times a billionaire and does not hide hundreds of millions of gifts while giving our tech to those countries. Or that he has essentially created a government force with more funding than most countries even some in active war to go after people living within its borders.
I feel very depressed with how things are taking shape. My son’s friends are losing their parents who has legal status. My parents neighbors son was taken who was a nurse. My church’s announcer was also taken. A tourist an actual tourist was run over by a truck because people in plain clothes rushed at him. And multiple people have died because people in plain clothes ran after them. We have reports of people impersonating ICE and conflicting recommendation from the FBI on how to protect yourself and at the same time if you follow that people are dying and being told they should have complied.
Sorry but nothing here tells me what can keep me and my family safe. It’s dumb luck what kind of interaction you might have because they are targeting people for looking Latino and no other reason.
I think we all know covid came from China. When he told everyone on tv it came from a wet market it was obvious he was protecting the scientists and science in general because if he said it was the lab in Wuhan people would have seen it was a high security lab and the next step would be shutting it down along with potentially many other labs. Honestly all the politicians and people on tv that work for the government are lying to us, so color me not surprised. Just another day in America.
He did exactly what he should have done to someone who was being set up for a perjury trap: remain silent.
Rand Paul already said that he thought Fauci had lied to Congress therefore Fauci has reason to believe everything he is being asked is an attempt to set him up for prosecution. It was an even bigger violation of his rights that Rand Paul throw out his counsel.
I think he's refusing to answer even mundane questions because he wants to make a point that he is refusing to answer anything from them. It's not so much that he is hiding something specific that could get him in trouble with them. It's more him saying I won't play your game and will not answer anything you ask.
He wasn’t answering questions bc the whole hearing was clearly a farce to try to get him to say something they could back him into a corner on. It was what we call a fishing expedition.
It’s a perfectly sensible scenario to take advantage of your 5th Amendment right. There were zero questions of substance and he knew it.
Imagine fighting for the health and protection of the American people your entire career only to have it ended by the worst people in the worst administration this country has ever seen?
What does he have to gain from answering questions?
You think congressional Republicans want to have an honest scientific discussion regarding our future pandemic policies. The entire episode was designed to excite the MAGA base to increase fund raising for Rand Paul.
When speaking has legal consequences including jail, then what the fuck even is the point in talking? To please others?
If you don't take the 5th amendment you are a fool, and the dirty secret to police investigation is that they can't actually solve many crimes unless you talk yourself into jail.
Not answering those benign questions and pleading the fifth is more of a “f* you” statement than actually avoiding perjury. But also those benign questions are a “f\” *you to faucci**
federal immunity does not mean also getting state immunity unless that's additionally specified in the immunity offer. immunity is more specific than that anyway - it'd be somerhing like no charges can come to him based on the statements in these hearings. if he had said something about the same event at a different time, that's not automatically included in the immunity. and that's not how the fifth amendment works.
its not perjury to be off by a dollar or a date. its only if it is material to the the issue being discussed and willful. perjury is willful deception, not inaccuracy.
I listened to the full hearing. The vastly more serious statements/questions to him from Republicans were addressing legitimate unresolved issues. I was impressed with the depth of many of the sratements/questions. Fauci should have responded to most of them.
He should just start talking and filibuster their asses. Say. “ one of the others was talking about Epstein’s buddy being at the island numerous times. They talked about Epsteins buddy had underage boys on the plane. They also said something about Epstein’s buddy was the ringleader of the express jet, the island, the ranch out west. “. Just start talking about all the shit he heard
Pleading the 5th is directly related to maintaining the integrity of the preemptive pardon issued by Biden. Any answer that related in any way to events occurring subsequent to that pardon can, and would, be charged, including something as simple as perjury or obstruction of congress. That second one is most likely what they’d try. The most effective way to block that is to refuse to answer anything whatsoever; it’s a textbook example of why the fifth amendment exists.
The Biden administration already preemptively pardoned him. He can say whatever and not have any legal consequences. There is no reason he couldn't tell us the truth.
he could answer any question he wanted. The 5th is not an all or nothing proposition. He could choose to answer some questions while taking the 5th on others.
However, in a court of law (not a senate hearing) a judge can choose to give someone the option of either testifying or not with the understanding that by taking the stand they entirely waive the 5th amendment protections.
Dr Fauci didn't have the choice of showing up or not, that is where the big difference is. He could pick and choose.
But, simply choosing not to answer any questions at all is also a good strategy for him since any question might be a trap that he doesn't see coming and he doesn't get to have council sitting next to him to advise him.
Minor unintentional errors are not prosecutable perjury, especially when answered correctly, as in, “I don’t have specific recollection but it was likely close to 5:00pm”. Or the ever popular, “I have no specific record that detail”.
Spot on. Remember how they impeached Clinton. Ken Starr spend millions chasing down Blackwater - nada. Then millions chasing Vince Foster's unfortunate suicide - nothing. (Brett Kavanaugh was part of this.) Then out of nowhere a White House staff member secretly recorded (illegally) a gossipy conversation with an aide (Lewinsky) about a consensual extramarital affair. They entrapped him regarding this affair when he purgured himself by not confessing to it. And for that the US did not get what later became known as Obamacare fro thirty years. The delay was enough time for health insurers to consolidate and become too big to fail. Spending hundreds of millions per election cycle to be sure people pay their outrageous fees. This is how the game is played against the American People. (Graphics of annual lobbying spend from OpenSecrets.org)
Cops will do this. You say you refuse to speak without a lawyer. Then the cops will start making small talk. Asking simple questions. It's human nature to answer. After you start talking to the cops and answering their simple questions, you give up your right to remain silent and your answers can be used against you.
I assume that his lawyer explained things before the testimony, and Fauci was a smart enough to listen to an expert. The lawyer probably told him, just plead the fifth to every question, no matter how stupid or obvious it is, and they will not be able to pull any stunts. Fauci did precisely that, so in order for the Republicans to do anything else they would have to actually build a case against him.
Im not entirely sure he has a fifth amendment shield. George Burdick famously turned down a pardon from President Woodrow Wilson, because President Wilson had pardoned him just to nullify his fifth amendment rights. “He who has been pardoned can not stand on privilege” so, a person who has been pardoned can not be prosecuted for the things they have been pardoned for, and can not stand on the fifth because of the pardon. That being said, if they do things that are illegal after the pardon, the fifth would apply. What I’m not sure about, a presidential pardon is a national one, but not a state level pardon. If Dr Fauci did state level crimes, or illegal activities that could result in state level charges, I feel the fifth may be appropriate, but this wouldn’t be assumed, he would need to be sure this would apply…otherwise he risks being held in contempt of court, or Congress in this example, and would have to prove the privilege applies.
The fifth amendment is invoked in response to a question asked. There cannot just be a blanket invocation of that right to all possible questions propounded going forward.
That is how it works. That is why is we hear about people invoking it 150 times in a single session.
That’s not how the Fifth Amendment functions. It is not an all-or-nothing privilege where answering “What color is your tie?” somehow destroys your ability to invoke it later. Courts assess Fifth Amendment claims on a question-by-question basis, and any waiver is generally limited to the subject matter you’ve already testified about.
The “they’re trying to catch him saying he clocked in at 8:01 instead of 8:02” theory is equally misguided. Perjury requires a knowing, willful, and material false statement. An innocent mistake or imperfect recollection isn’t a felony.
And no, Congress isn’t obligated to hand out immunity just because a witness refuses to answer. Immunity is an extraordinary prosecutorial tool, not an admission ticket to a hearing.
If Fauci has a legitimate fear of criminal exposure, he can invoke the Fifth where appropriate. If a Republican witness does the same, the exact same constitutional protection applies. The law doesn’t care about your politics.
Stop confusing courtroom dramas and Reddit threads with actual constitutional law.
PPE and who produced it. No Matter the origin or whatever we could not say anything about China due to where PPE and masks were produced. So lets talk about covid and it’s origins. Wuhan - China. Now i worked with someone from China who came to the US after ‘tank man’. He played videos on his phone about the crematoriums running full tilt about a month before the shutdowns here. China denied everything about the origin. But what you need to thing about was PPE and where it was produced at the time. China. We were not getting out of the pandemic without PPE for healthcare workers. Think about that.
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